Tony Mowbray Discussion

[booth]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

The clubs already in the abyss booth, a new manager, even a lucky one, can't work with no footballing people to support him, no scouting network, staff leaving for glamour clubs like Salford City, no funding to pay contracts, not money for even the poorest loan signings, a refusal to engage, the place is a dysfunctional cabal. 

Venkys out.

 

I think I’m having posts removed unless my browsers are playing up. Not sure why as I’m being careful not to name names.

But the jist of it was, we won’t get better owners till we’re an attractive club. And with the mountain of debt and baggage  all we will attract are vultures right now.

Mowbray has had more than a lot of more successful managers. I’d like to see venkys throw their money and free reign over to a decent manager. That’s all.

Bit of a catch 22 I know.

[Bigdoggsteel]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The manager should have been sacked 18 months ago. But if he left today, he hasn't really caused much damage in that we are in a slightly better position than when he came.

Venkys have caused untold, continuous damage, and is another symptom that stems from India. They don't care about the club, so they just allow him to crack on even whilst he underperforms, hence why he is a symptom, the root cause is Venkys, always has been, always will be.

It is more that I find it utterly baffling that people actively defend the owners even now.

Carter was crap, I suppose coming into a game against Fulham who were 2 up and a man up is difficult, but he wasn't very good, and to be honest hasn't really convinced me in any game that he has played for the first team, he did ok at Forest away as a stand in right back but otherwise he has been very shaky, even after a loan spell at Burton in which he apparently did brilliantly in.

But as I said in the Fulham thread, no outfield player was over 2 out of 10. Unsure if you watched the Huddersfield game when Magloire came on and the Blackpool game in which he started, I watched the former on TV and was at the latter, and in 2 other poor team performances, Magloire still stood out (in a bad way) amidst that all, he was horrendous.

I don't think anyone outright defends them, beyond acknowledging that they are keeping the show on the road money wise and even then nobody says that isn't their own fault. 

Your opening stuff about Mowbray ignores the fact that after his time here , without having to majorly sell anyone until last summer, we aren't a lot better off. Ok we are better off, but that wouldn't be hard compared to what he inherited. After all his talk about journeys and saying we were going for promotion last season, we are a lower midtable team under him. We also have an exciting crop of youngsters, who he is failing miserably to integrate into the team effectively. After 5 years he should have a system and a way of playing that all the players understand. The reality is he done a complete 180 after last season, which just shows he really doesn't have a clue how to get us up the table and he knows it, hence all the excuses. If we played and lost to a team where the manager has had 5 years to mold the style, along with Brereton and Gallagher, Mowbray would point out the manager has had time and money. 

I think the discussion in relation to Magloire and Carter need go no further than neither are good enough to play for Blackburn rovers. 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[Gav]

32 minutes ago, booth said:

I think I’m having posts removed unless my browsers are playing up. Not sure why as I’m being careful not to name names.

But the jist of it was, we won’t get better owners till we’re an attractive club. And with the mountain of debt and baggage  all we will attract are vultures right now.

Mowbray has had more than a lot of more successful managers. I’d like to see venkys throw their money and free reign over to a decent manager. That’s all.

Bit of a catch 22 I know.

Its a very good point booth, we have no idea what these owners will leave us with when they finally sod off. The cost cutting and penny pinching in most areas tells me they'll not be taking any debt with them. 

The positive we do have is we are Blackburn Rovers, the famous Blackburn Rovers who won the Premiership in 1995, Jack Walker, Alan Shearer, Kenny Dalglish, blue and white halves and in normal times recognised and respected the world over.

The football club means something to many people, we just need to stop rot, need to stop the damage being inflicted season after season by absent owners.

We will come again, we just need a change of ownership, once that happens the shoots of recovery start.

Keep the faith. 

 

 

Edited November 4, 2021 by Gav

[RoversClitheroe]

5 minutes ago, Gav said:

Its a very good point booth, we have no idea what these owners will leave us with when they finally sod off. The cost cutting and penny pinching in most areas tells me they'll not be taking any debt with them. 

The positive we do have is we are Blackburn Rovers, the famous Blackburn Rovers who won the Premiership in 1995, Jack Walker, Alan Shearer, Kenny Dalglish, blue and white halves and in normal times recognised and respected the world over.

The football club means something to many people, we just need to stop rot, need to stop the damage being inflicted season after season by absent owners.

We will come again, we just need a change of ownership, once that happens the shoots of recovery start.

Keep the faith. 

 

 

We're less attractive now we don't have the training ground on the Balance Sheet.

[roversfan99]

27 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I don't think anyone outright defends them, beyond acknowledging that they are keeping the show on the road money wise and even then nobody says that isn't their own fault. 

Your opening stuff about Mowbray ignores the fact that after his time here , without having to majorly sell anyone until last summer, we aren't a lot better off. Ok we are better off, but that wouldn't be hard compared to what he inherited. After all his talk about journeys and saying we were going for promotion last season, we are a lower midtable team under him. We also have an exciting crop of youngsters, who he is failing miserably to integrate into the team effectively. After 5 years he should have a system and a way of playing that all the players understand. The reality is he done a complete 180 after last season, which just shows he really doesn't have a clue how to get us up the table and he knows it, hence all the excuses. If we played and lost to a team where the manager has had 5 years to mold the style, along with Brereton and Gallagher, Mowbray would point out the manager has had time and money. 

I think the discussion in relation to Magloire and Carter need go no further than neither are good enough to play for Blackburn rovers. 

I wasn't defending him, but Mowbray isn't the problem. Ultimately throughout his time here following promotion, we have never been genuinely close to a relegation fight, nor have we come close to overachieving (which any manager would have to do to get us into the top 6, we don't have the resources of a top 6 side, but overachieving is possible as a team a season tends to prove, Coventry and Barnsley are 2 examples) and pushing on properly in his time here. Had he not been allowed to outstay his welcome so long, he would leave with his head held high, as it is, it has become a little bitter and sour. To be pedantic, you could argue that throwing his possession experiment in the bin shows that he isnt as stubborn as he seems and it has got "us up the table" slightly. His reign hasn't been disastrous, we haven't tumbled down the leagues and not returned, we have not been embroiled in constant battles at the bottom, he just is clearly incapable of pushing us on yet is left to linger because our owners don't give a shit. 

To go off on a tangent, the following is blatantly untrue as far as I am concerned, "We also have an exciting crop of youngsters, who he is failing miserably to integrate into the team effectively." Which youngsters are you referring to? Lenihan was a poor midfielder prior to Mowbray coming in, now he is captain. Nyambe was only just breaking into the team occasionally under Coyle, now he is a regular. Travis came through under Mowbray and since he did, he has been a regular. Buckley has broke through under Mowbray and been trusted at times when sceptics (myself included) were unsure to become a regular first teamer. Whenever fit, Rankin Costello is seen by the manager as a safe pair of hands (not one that I have ever been truly convinced by) to fill in numerous positions. Wharton after a few loan spells was establishing himself as a regular last season prior to injury. The likes of Carter, Butterworth and Magloire have also been dipped in occasionally perhaps due to necessity, even though none of those 3 have really taken their chances.

But yeah, Mowbray has not been taking this club forward for 18 months, I think I have been consistent in asking for change throughout that time, but it highlights what we are dealing with in that it has never seemed likely at any point during those 18 months. I just can't abide by anyone in any way defending or praising the owners considering what we continue to see before us. Even praising them for merely raising the share capital to offset the debts for one of their businesses that they themselves neglect otherwise as if it is a good deed, how low are our standards? Standing in the cold in an empty Ewood last night watching a crap manager and a crap set of players get thumped by a record scoreline whilst our owners are on the other side of the world probably totally unaware, it just makes me sick.

[Bigdoggsteel]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I wasn't defending him, but Mowbray isn't the problem. Ultimately throughout his time here following promotion, we have never been genuinely close to a relegation fight, nor have we come close to overachieving (which any manager would have to do to get us into the top 6, we don't have the resources of a top 6 side, but overachieving is possible as a team a season tends to prove, Coventry and Barnsley are 2 examples) and pushing on properly in his time here. Had he not been allowed to outstay his welcome so long, he would leave with his head held high, as it is, it has become a little bitter and sour. To be pedantic, you could argue that throwing his possession experiment in the bin shows that he isnt as stubborn as he seems and it has got "us up the table" slightly. His reign hasn't been disastrous, we haven't tumbled down the leagues and not returned, we have not been embroiled in constant battles at the bottom, he just is clearly incapable of pushing us on yet is left to linger because our owners don't give a shit. 

To go off on a tangent, the following is blatantly untrue as far as I am concerned, "We also have an exciting crop of youngsters, who he is failing miserably to integrate into the team effectively." Which youngsters are you referring to? Lenihan was a poor midfielder prior to Mowbray coming in, now he is captain. Nyambe was only just breaking into the team occasionally under Coyle, now he is a regular. Travis came through under Mowbray and since he did, he has been a regular. Buckley has broke through under Mowbray and been trusted at times when sceptics (myself included) were unsure to become a regular first teamer. Whenever fit, Rankin Costello is seen by the manager as a safe pair of hands (not one that I have ever been truly convinced by) to fill in numerous positions. Wharton after a few loan spells was establishing himself as a regular last season prior to injury. The likes of Carter, Butterworth and Magloire have also been dipped in occasionally perhaps due to necessity, even though none of those 3 have really taken their chances.

But yeah, Mowbray has not been taking this club forward for 18 months, I think I have been consistent in asking for change throughout that time, but it highlights what we are dealing with in that it has never seemed likely at any point during those 18 months. I just can't abide by anyone in any way defending or praising the owners considering what we continue to see before us. Even praising them for merely raising the share capital to offset the debts for one of their businesses that they themselves neglect otherwise as if it is a good deed, how low are our standards? Standing in the cold in an empty Ewood last night watching a crap manager and a crap set of players get thumped by a record scoreline whilst our owners are on the other side of the world probably totally unaware, it just makes me sick.

Again, to start, you repeatedly mention it, but I don't know or see anyone defending or praising the owners? Stating the facts and reality of the situation , isn't praise, or indeed a defence. 

I agree 100% if he left earlier, he could have done so with his head held high and most would have been happy with the decent job he had done, however we are well beyond that now.  

Yes, the 5/6 players you mention have come through alright (and you even forgot Dolan), but I am more referring to his handling of and usage of the squad. So say last season and this has happened before, he knew loads of players were leaving/out of contract, but rather than give those who were doing well for the under 23s a run in dead rubbers near the end, he continued with those who wouldn't even be here. I would also say how he speaks doesn't encourage young players to show their individuality, I think he hammers them over minor issues around how they are off the ball choice of pass, the type of stuff he ignores when say Captain Benno or Johnson do it. I mean he wasn't Xavi playing himself and isn't Pep now. Playing Buckley centre forward for example, its hardly helping the lad. 

Ya, it's a brutal state of affairs and they are absentee owners, but Mowbray himself said he would walk if a burden, yet he didn't/won't and we can say who would blame him, but at the end of the day it was him reneging on his word. He has been given time and money, didn't have to sell, yet we are where we are. He knows himself that overall he has failed. 

[davulsukur]

More frustrating than last night's appalling effort is the complete inaction by our owners today.

[CambridgeRover]

58 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Which youngsters are you referring to? Lenihan was a poor midfielder prior to Mowbray coming in, now he is captain.

What you meant to say was "Lenihan was a poor midfielder prior to Mowbray coming in, now he is a poor defender."

[JHRover]

I keep coming back in my head to just how ridiculous this whole scenario is.

February 2017 - facing likely relegation they finally sack Owen Coyle - he should never have been allowed anywhere near Ewood yet he got the job before far stronger and more suitable candidates for reasons unknown. He was then left to wreak havoc for 8 months, condemning us to League One when a blind man could see in August/September where we were headed. Thanks Venkys.

In comes Mowbray. How, why, who knows. A bizarre appointment in itself given his history. A bloke who had been on the scrapheap for 6 months after leaving crisis club Coventry City facing certain relegation to the 4th division, who hadn't worked in the Championship or equivalent/higher for 4 years since being sacked by Middlesbrough yet in he comes. Reports that he was a contender for the Chesterfield job yet was overlooked in favour of Gary Caldwell. Yikes.

By virtue of the fact he wasn't Coyle and had some degree of managerial ability there was the inevitable upturn in results and improvement in atmosphere and through that, despite relegation, he was afforded respect and admiration from most people who were willing to allow him a proper shot at it in League One.

Here we are, 3.5 years later, he's still plodding along. He isn't a good manager, never has been, yet some would have us think he is absolutely indispensable to the club.

Just what does it take to sack him?

He's wasted millions of their money with little to show for it

He's failed to get us even in serious contention for the top 6 let alone promotion.

He's taken us on one of the worst runs of form in our history and has now lead us to our worst defeat.

What hope do we have?

I think the worst part of this is that this sub-par managers, whether it be Kean, Coyle or Mowbray - people who really shouldn't have even got an interview to manage this great club - are in situ for years, able to deliver any performance imaginable and it matters not one jot. Talk about landing on his feet. From being unemployable at Chesterfield to unsackable at Blackburn Rovers. It really leaves a sickening taste in the mouth.

 

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I keep coming back in my head to just how ridiculous this whole scenario is.

February 2017 - facing likely relegation they finally sack Owen Coyle - he should never have been allowed anywhere near Ewood yet he got the job before far stronger and more suitable candidates for reasons unknown. He was then left to wreak havoc for 8 months, condemning us to League One when a blind man could see in August/September where we were headed. Thanks Venkys.

In comes Mowbray. How, why, who knows. A bizarre appointment in itself given his history. A bloke who had been on the scrapheap for 6 months after leaving crisis club Coventry City facing certain relegation to the 4th division, who hadn't worked in the Championship or equivalent/higher for 4 years since being sacked by Middlesbrough yet in he comes. Reports that he was a contender for the Chesterfield job yet was overlooked in favour of Gary Caldwell. Yikes.

By virtue of the fact he wasn't Coyle and had some degree of managerial ability there was the inevitable upturn in results and improvement in atmosphere and through that, despite relegation, he was afforded respect and admiration from most people who were willing to allow him a proper shot at it in League One.

Here we are, 3.5 years later, he's still plodding along. He isn't a good manager, never has been, yet some would have us think he is absolutely indispensable to the club.

Just what does it take to sack him?

He's wasted millions of their money with little to show for it

He's failed to get us even in serious contention for the top 6 let alone promotion.

He's taken us on one of the worst runs of form in our history and has now lead us to our worst defeat.

What hope do we have?

I think the worst part of this is that this sub-par managers, whether it be Kean, Coyle or Mowbray - people who really shouldn't have even got an interview to manage this great club - are in situ for years, able to deliver any performance imaginable and it matters not one jot. Talk about landing on his feet. From being unemployable at Chesterfield to unsackable at Blackburn Rovers. It really leaves a sickening taste in the mouth.

 

Great Post JH.

[SuperBrfc]

Why was it so difficult for Mowbray to say something along the following lines last night:

"I just want to apologise to the fans for the result tonight. Going down to 10 men made our task difficult, but we weren't good enough on the night and Fulham had the quality to punish us. We're all hurting right now but we will be doing all we can to put things right on Saturday".

You'd expect something like the above from any decent manager.

The lack of an apology, the shrugging of the shoulders and the arrogance has only increased the anger that I feel.

He can't use the "young lads, don't want to throw them under the bus" excuse, when he's gone and said "this is going to be on their CV forever".

Honestly, he was a terrible manager, but Owen Coyle showed more respect for our club and fans than Mowbray has done.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

but Mowbray isn't the problem.

Mowbray is the current problem. He has been backed to the hilt by the owners in terms of transfer fees, loan fees and wages..

And he still employed these crap tactics like last night. He cost us the game before it started. No more excuses for him. His post match comments was pathetic and I still angry that the manager hasn't apologise or resigned after last night pathetic performance 

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, Butty said:

Wishful thinking Chaddy. He’s not going anywhere. 

Very much looks that way. 

[jim mk2]

First question by a journalist with his Rovers nose to the ground after last night's match should have been

Well, Tony. That was the worst home defeat in the club's history - are you considering resigning?

After the denial the second question should have been

Rovers fans will be feeling dejected and humiliated tonight. Are you going to apologise to them?

 

[RoversClitheroe]

If I were a player I'd be kicking off big time and begging to leave in January. 

Yet it's because of the Venkys we are underperforming? 

Come on people Venkys might be why we're in the championship but they're certainly not the reason we're so shit under this manager.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

And to think we never witnessed a defeat like that at Ewood even under King Rat Kean.

Is he still here?

[Waggy76]

10 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

If I were a player I'd be kicking off big time and begging to leave in January. 

Yet it's because of the Venkys we are underperforming? 

Come on people Venkys might be why we're in the championship but they're certainly not the reason we're so shit under this manager.

I Suspect most of the players want to leave for differing reasons  , who can blame them ?

[roversfan99]

38 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray is the current problem. He has been backed to the hilt by the owners in terms of transfer fees, loan fees and wages..

And he still employed these crap tactics like last night. He cost us the game before it started. No more excuses for him. His post match comments was pathetic and I still angry that the manager hasn't apologise or resigned after last night pathetic performance 

He is not the current problem, Venkys are, have always been and always will be. A problem? Obviously. Not THE main one.

Mowbray is a symptom, he should have been long since sacked. Why has he not? Because the owners do not give a shit!

Backed to the hilt is an exaggeration, but we will never overachieve and properly progress under him, he has long since outstayed his welcome. 

 

5 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

If I were a player I'd be kicking off big time and begging to leave in January. 

Yet it's because of the Venkys we are underperforming? 

Come on people Venkys might be why we're in the championship but they're certainly not the reason we're so shit under this manager.

How has the penny not dropped yet?!

Firstly, "so shit" is hyperbolic, aside from last night when it isn't strong enough. We are bog standard, average, stagnant, regressive. But why is this manager still here, with no threat as to his future? Because of Venkys, so yes it is down to them that we are underperforming, as we have been for 11 horrendous years.

[jim mk2]

I wouldn't normally say this because the manager has ultimate responsibility but the players were just as pathetic last night.

Apart from one or two, most of them showed very little pride or fight - and for a professional footballer, that is completely unacceptable

Where were the leaders rallying the troops to keep the heads up and battle to the end? All we have is a team of shrinking violets. 

No professional team should lose 7-0, especially at home

If he had anything about him, Mowbray should be reading the riot act today 

Edited November 4, 2021 by jim mk2

[Bbrovers2288]

Last night has got me thinking and I’m very much at a crossroads with my support of rovers, and I guess have been for a good few seasons. Can I honestly say I care about rovers like I used to, i genuinely can’t. Losses to hurt as much, but wins aren’t enjoyed as much either. It’s a football apathy that doesn’t sit well with me. For years Iv said a new manager would ignite these feelings, then Iv thought if we get into the premier league , but the premier league is a different one to the one we left, there is more and more money teams that even if we did go up, would I enjoy seeing us being so far behind and never likely to flirt with the top half again. I think it might make me feel worse. I can’t say I enjoy the premier league anymore, I don’t watch match of the day these days which used to be a Saturday night staple. 
I don’t think my support for rovers will ever be what it was, and that just makes me sad. The damage has been going on for too long and there is only so much you can take before you need to detach a little.

I will always support the club, that’s never in doubt. Just not with passion 

still would like mowbray gone , just for a change if nothing else. I remember watching a nature program where it showed kamodo dragons hunting, they would basically bite the animal with poison then stalk it as it got weaker and weaker before weeks down the line it finally succumbed to the enevitable. Mowbrays tenure reminds me of that long drawn painful process 

[dallydally]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

I wouldn't normally say this because the manager has ultimate responsibility but the players were just as pathetic last night.

Apart from one or two, most of them showed very little pride or fight - and for a professional footballer, that is completely unacceptable

Where were the leaders rallying the troops to keep the heads up and battle to the end? All we have is a team of shrinking violets. 

No professional team should lose 7-0, especially at home

If he had anything about him, Mowbray should be reading the riot act today 

But he won't because players have to be "handled carefully and not offended". Overpaid Prima Donnas is what they are and despite saying the opposite they don't give a stuff about supporters feelings, just their considerable pay cheques which are still issued even when you get stuffed 7 nil! 😤😤😤

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

He is not the current problem, Venkys are, have always been and always will be. A problem? Obviously. Not THE main one.

Mowbray is a symptom, he should have been long since sacked. Why has he not? Because the owners do not give a shit!

Backed to the hilt is an exaggeration, but we will never overachieve and properly progress under him, he has long since outstayed his welcome. 

Mowbray IS the current problem and has been for months. 

He hasn't be sacked cos in my opinion cos he has been up a trusted relationship with them and thats why. 

He has been financially backed for the past 3 seasons before this one. He has over 16 million pounds in transfers fees, plus loan fees for players like Reed, Elliott and Tosin. Then the wage bill he has been allowed to run with each season like having a wage bill at 189% compare to turnover. Then he moans about his lack of budget this summer but any normal footballing manager would have known that his budget this summer would be smaller and he can't moan or complain cos he has been more than backed by the club and owners. 

I don't see promotion or even top 6 has over achieving at all given the budget he has had and time to build a squad. So why hasn't he build a top 6 squad? cos his transfers haven't improve the squad and his tactical approach isn't working anymore. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Apart from one or two, most of them showed very little pride or fight

For me its was only Brereton and Travis who continue to fight and show some pride. 

[rigger]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray is the current problem. He has been backed to the hilt by the owners in terms of transfer fees, loan fees and wages..

And he still employed these crap tactics like last night. He cost us the game before it started. No more excuses for him. His post match comments was pathetic and I still angry that the manager hasn't apologise or resigned after last night pathetic performance 

Critisising Mowbray, have a day off. Do these words ring a bell.

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, rigger said:

Critisising Mowbray, have a day off. Do these words ring a bell.

Wait a second tho Rigger, I don't criticise Mowbray every single day tho. but after witness that shambolic performance last night and stay until the end of the game, I am very angry and annoyed at his lack of apology from himself and the players. Or even the club making a statement this morning to apology to every single Rovers supporter who attend last night game, quickly followed by a Mowbray sacking statement. 

I have throughout his reign criticise his signings like the failure to bring in a quality centre back in our first season back in the championship after promotion.  

Edited November 4, 2021 by chaddyrovers