Tony Mowbray Discussion

[Mercer]

3 minutes ago, Gav said:

I don’t think it’s gone unnoticed that you disappeared during the fantastic run we’ve been on, but have now miraculously reappeared after a few losses, Houdini like and it’s great to have you back.

This will probably be our best ever season in the championship under these owners, certainly Mowbrays best points total, it’s hardly treading water or regression, it’s progress season upon season.

Don't make assumptions.

Personal reasons.  Full stop.

[Mattyblue]

Well we haven’t seen ‘progression season upon season’, as before this term’s, obvious improvement, we’d finished 15th, 11th, 15th in full Championship seasons under TM. The absolute definition of treading water in a division.

 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Mattyblue

[Gav]

2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Don't make assumptions.

Personal reasons.  Full stop.

No assumptions here, It’s good to have you back.

[Gav]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

Well we haven’t seen ‘progression season upon season’, as before this term’s, obvious improvement, we’d finished 15th, 11th, 15th in full Championship seasons under TM. The absolute definition of treading water in a division.

 

I think we’ll smash our championship points total this season, progression wouldn’t you say and being top 6 for months isn’t something we’ve experienced under Venkys. 

[Mattyblue]

Of course it’s progression on last season. 

Though it obviously isn’t something that has been happening year on year, last season was a big regression.

The Championship is a difficult league for incremental improvements anyway, most clubs are losing a good chunk of their team every year. I’m happy to have a season out of nowhere like this as next term could be very different … which is why we must not throw it away cheaply.
 

Edited February 12, 2022 by Mattyblue

[Oldgregg86]

Would people still want mowbray if we lost on penalties in the final ?

I personally think he deserves full backing until the end of the season and then should leave with his head held high if we go up or fail to make the play offs regardless.

He isn't equipped to handle big budgets and hasn't got the ruthless drive ( i.e. his infuriating comments last week about we were never playing for second etc (paraphrased) necessary to compete and keep us up. 

Up or staying in the championship its time for a fresh approach, fresh ideas and a different feel amongst the crowd. Another year in the champ without key players and mowbray in charge is a hard sell to floating fans

[rigger]

12 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Would people still want mowbray if we lost on penalties in the final ?

I personally think he deserves full backing until the end of the season and then should leave with his head held high if we go up or fail to make the play offs regardless.

He isn't equipped to handle big budgets and hasn't got the ruthless drive ( i.e. his infuriating comments last week about we were never playing for second etc (paraphrased) necessary to compete and keep us up. 

Up or staying in the championship its time for a fresh approach, fresh ideas and a different feel amongst the crowd. Another year in the champ without key players and mowbray in charge is a hard sell to floating fans

I said at the beginning of this season that I would not renew my season ticket if Mowbray was still manager. The same will apply to next season.

[ben_the_beast]

We've had a wobble and the worrisome thing is Mowbrays inability to stop a blip becoming a death spiral in previous seasons. 

But he deserves backing right now. We've done phenomenally well this year. I'm hoping to see us bounce back. Couple of wins and all will be fine again. And it's perfectly possible. The goals have dried up, yes. But promotions are built on solid defences. It's not time to throw out the script. We'll start scoring again at some point, so long as we keep the structure to the team.

[Gav]

29 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Would people still want mowbray if we lost on penalties in the final ?

If we makes the playoffs this season he should be offered a new contract, he doesn't need to make the final for me.

He's out performing all the clubs and managers with massive budgets around us, its been a tremendous effort by Tony and his team. 

[47er]

13 minutes ago, Gav said:

If we makes the playoffs this season he should be offered a new contract,

I actually agree with that so long as its a rolling contract. Don't want him messing about for 3 years then suddenly discovering his mojo. I have said all along we will never be promoted with Mowbray. If we make the play-offs and I am not confident we will, I'd wager he'd be out-thought by other managers.

But conversely Gav, if he doesn't make the play-offs and remember we were 7 points clear, should he go?

I believe strongly he should.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

If we makes the playoffs this season he should be offered a new contract, he doesn't need to make the final for me.

He's out performing all the clubs and managers with massive budgets around us, its been a tremendous effort by Tony and his team. 

Fulham, Bournemouth, West Brom and Sheffield United, and arguably Forest, all have substantially greater budgets at this moment in time than we do. So for us to be above 3 of them and just behind another is a good effort.

But by the same measure Mowbray has had things in his favour that those other clubs haven't had. He's had 5 years in sole control of this club and has been able to build it up in the way he wants. The way we play - he's had years to work on it with little pressure during that time. Settled in the division. No adjustment, rebuild, chaos to deal with. Compare to Silva, Parker, Ismael/Bruce, Cooper, Heckingbottom - all of whom have taken over their clubs recently, and whilst they've inherited decent squads and have had decent budgets, haven't had a fraction of the time and freedom Mowbray has enjoyed here. 

For me we see where we are come May. If he gets us up somehow he deserves all the credit in the world. If we get top six and fall just short then there needs to be a serious conversation as to what the plan is moving forward. If he misses out on the top 6, having been 2nd in February, I'm afraid that has to be the end for me, regardless of how well we have done to date.

Because you don't get a trophy for finishing 4th, 5th or 6th. Only if you get to Wembley and win is it an achievement. It can be a sign of progress and improvement but then that's only any use if you use it to go again and go one better next season. Given the state of our squad there can be no talk of building for next year because it is going to be dismantled in the summer.

[Gav]

7 hours ago, JHRover said:

Fulham, Bournemouth, West Brom and Sheffield United, and arguably Forest, all have substantially greater budgets at this moment in time than we do. So for us to be above 3 of them and just behind another is a good effort.

But by the same measure Mowbray has had things in his favour that those other clubs haven't had. He's had 5 years in sole control of this club and has been able to build it up in the way he wants. The way we play - he's had years to work on it with little pressure during that time. Settled in the division. No adjustment, rebuild, chaos to deal with. Compare to Silva, Parker, Ismael/Bruce, Cooper, Heckingbottom - all of whom have taken over their clubs recently, and whilst they've inherited decent squads and have had decent budgets, haven't had a fraction of the time and freedom Mowbray has enjoyed here. 

I don't think having time at a club like ours makes the blindest bit of difference if I'm honest. Kenny didn't need time, he needed funds and support from the board, Souness didn't need time, he needed funds and support from the board. Bournemouth are following that model right now and it will probably reap those rewards, the rest will end up also rans. 

What Mowbray inherited here was a club heading for relegation, no structure behind the scenes, absent owners and a bean counter running the place. Like it or not he quickly realised he needed support internally and Waggott came in as CEO, the first proper 'footballing man' that had been put in place to support any manager under these owners, the rest have robbed a living. 

We have a number of posters who understand business, who run successful businesses and you can't run a successful business of any size with absent owners or poor CEO's and no staff. Thats what our owners have been trying to do since 2011 and look where we ended up. We now have a CEO, he's getting better in his role, but he shouldn't be learning on the job, he's not the calibre we need, but he's cheap, the Venky model for mediocrity. 

Mowbray and his young side are bucking the trend this season, what he's achieved so far on a limited budget with limited options, as I keep saying has been tremendous. He missed out on most of his number 1 targets in the summer, priced out by the competition by all accounts, yet it seems on the face of it his new head of recruiting earned his corn and they pulled more than a few rabbits out of the hat, hence the season so far.

This season may well end in disappointment, we simply don't have the quality of squad to compete at this level for a full season in my opinion. But this season on a personal note has reignited some of the passion, brought a bit of pride back into the town and the football club and thats down to Mowbray and these players.

He deserves a new deal on the back of this season, I'd much rather have him than the rubbish on the dole at the moment.

[Mattyblue]

Two good posts from you two, these things are never as simple as some of the social media fanboys who want to ‘build the man a statue’, or some of the completely OTT stuff you see on here; ‘absolutely terrible manager, I’d drive him back to Teesside myself’ try to make out.

However on Swag, working in the game for a few years doesn’t make you a ‘football man’. His still complete lack of knowledge of the club’s fanbase is testament to that. Though it is something you can learn in the job, look at John Williams.

A better person to have in situ than the likes of those snakes Shaw and Agnew? Or an accountant like Cheston trying to run the whole place? Yes, but that’s a pretty low bar…

Edited February 13, 2022 by Mattyblue

[RevidgeBlue]

49 minutes ago, Gav said:

I don't think having time at a club like ours makes the blindest bit of difference if I'm honest. Kenny didn't need time, he needed funds and support from the board, Souness didn't need time, he needed funds and support from the board. Bournemouth are following that model right now and it will probably reap those rewards, the rest will end up also rans. 

What Mowbray inherited here was a club heading for relegation, no structure behind the scenes, absent owners and a bean counter running the place. Like it or not he quickly realised he needed support internally and Waggott came in as CEO, the first proper 'footballing man' that had been put in place to support any manager under these owners, the rest have robbed a living. 

We have a number of posters who understand business, who run successful businesses and you can't run a successful business of any size with absent owners or poor CEO's and no staff. Thats what our owners have been trying to do since 2011 and look where we ended up. We now have a CEO, he's getting better in his role, but he shouldn't be learning on the job, he's not the calibre we need, but he's cheap, the Venky model for mediocrity. 

Mowbray and his young side are bucking the trend this season, what he's achieved so far on a limited budget with limited options, as I keep saying has been tremendous. He missed out on most of his number 1 targets in the summer, priced out by the competition by all accounts, yet it seems on the face of it his new head of recruiting earned his corn and they pulled more than a few rabbits out of the hat, hence the season so far.

This season may well end in disappointment, we simply don't have the quality of squad to compete at this level for a full season in my opinion. But this season on a personal note has reignited some of the passion, brought a bit of pride back into the town and the football club and thats down to Mowbray and these players.

He deserves a new deal on the back of this season, I'd much rather have him than the rubbish on the dole at the moment.

His legacy if we don't go up is burning through £120m of the owners money to absolutely no avail and allowing several key players to walk out for nothing.

If we go up he would deserve great credit but that is looking increasingly unlikely and I suspect he is a still an extremely poor  manager on a previously temporarily good run of form thanks to the efforts of  players forced on him due to the incompetence of him and Waggott.

In terms of the managers we've had in my 51 years of watching the Club I'd say he's the worst apart from Coyle, Ince, and Iley. The others who have only been here temporarily in the owners more erratic days whilst maybe not the answer never had the luxury of the time and the ample financial backing he has had.

Will be delighted to be proved wrong in May.

[RevidgeBlue]

45 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Two good posts from you two, these things are never as simple as some of the social media fanboys who want to ‘build the man a statue’, or some of the completely OTT stuff you see on here; ‘absolutely terrible manager, I’d drive him back to Teesside myself’ try to make out.

However on Swag, working in the game for a few years doesn’t make you a ‘football man’. His still complete lack of knowledge of the club’s fanbase is testament to that. Though it is something you can learn in the job, look at John Williams.

A better person to have in situ than the likes of those snakes Shaw and Agnew? Or an accountant like Cheston trying to run the whole place? Yes, but that’s a pretty low bar…

Swag isn't "cheap" either as Gav claims.

[Mattyblue]

8 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

In terms of the managers we've had in my 51 years of watching the Club I'd say he's the worst apart from Coyle, Ince, and Iley. The others who have only been here temporarily in the owners more erratic days whilst maybe not the answer never had the luxury of the time and the ample financial backing he has had.

Will be delighted to be proved wrong in May.

Ok, we won’t bother mentioning Berg or Appleton. But he’s a worse manager than Kean or Harford or Kidd? 

Come off it!
 

[Gav]

37 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Swag isn't "cheap" either as Gav claims.

In footballing terms he's bargain basement, I know several local CEO's on more than him, much more. 

28 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Ok, we won’t bother mentioning Berg or Appleton. But he’s a worse manager than Kean or Harford or Kidd? 

Come off it!
 

He's trolling Matty, he also has that snivelling lying cheating rat above Mowbray, need I say more.....

Edited February 13, 2022 by Gav

[USABlue]

On 12/02/2022 at 04:13, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

My fear is the Chicken Chokers will be too lazy to look around for a new manager and will stick with the status quo.

You nailed it there Mr Tyrone

[roverandout]

It's an extremely poor league.  Mowbray has had a lucky run of wins.  Its not some great design that he's put together.  His previous 3 years in this league has shown him for what he is. This season has been an anomaly rather than any platform.  I highly doubt rovers will be a playoff team next season.  If they go up Great he deserves a crack but I'm not even expecting the playoffs

[roversfan99]

Its is clear with quite a few that going into this season, that Mowbray is beyond being judged fairly and without bias now.

Last season was a major disappointment, and was down to him, yet this excellent season so far seems to be judged as a lucky one.

Also, "burnt through £120m of the owners money" @RevidgeBlue is blatantly untrue.

[FortressEwood]

8 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

His legacy if we don't go up is burning through £120m of the owners money

Would you mind sharing your working out with us for this outlandish claim?

Edited February 13, 2022 by FortressEwood

[AllRoverAsia]

Statue if he gets to the PL.

then

New contract if he gets to the playoffs.

and

Now its new contract based on the season so far.

What next? 

[RevidgeBlue]

 

14 hours ago, FortressEwood said:

Would you mind sharing your working out with us for this outlandish claim?

 

Who do you think makes up the shortfall of c £20m p.a. for wages etc? 

 

(£30m plus during the pandemic)

 

 

[Upside Down]

31 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Statue if he gets to the PL.

then

New contract if he gets to the playoffs.

and

Now its new contract based on the season so far.

What next? 

New contract and a terrys chocolate orange if we stay up.

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 11/02/2022 at 14:01, JHRover said:

I'm not sure anyone can say that contract issues have been out of Mowbray's control.

He was able to get approval to give expensive contract extensions to Bennett, Mulgrew, Smallwood, Evans and expensive deals to Downing and Holtby. I am pretty sure that in the summer of 2020 he could have focused his budget on new deals for Lenihan, Nyambe, Rothwell and there would have been more than enough scope in there to get those done. Instead they were overlooked and the money spent on other things.

Jesus it's very difficult for you to grasp this, but lets go again 🙂

Those you mention , yes he approved those deals and we agree some were unnecessary. However, he also approved deals for Lenihan, Rothwell and Nyambe, or are you saying he didn't/hasn't done so? The issue is they want more than the club is offering, which the aforementioned players didn't, likewise for Kaminski and Gallagher. 

On Downing and Holtby , we don't know what they were on and to be honest I had no issue with Downing signing and Holtby was a let down, but these things happen with transfers.