other Blackburn Rovers Documentary / Help Needed!

[Leonard Venkhater]

On 06/09/2019 at 12:30, JoeHarvey said:

I'm not trying to come across as anything.

Stop making this thread into a fight or an argument.

I'm making a doc, I shared your views on Venkys, the doc isn't all about them. Simple as.
 

As for "remoaner", it was simply a joke, one you've not taken so well. What's the issue here? ffs.

I see the "remoaner" thing might be a joke. I guess the trouble with the term is that it is convenient slang used by the likes of Johnson and Farage to dismiss genuine concerns about a no deal Brexit. Clearly, neither no deal nor Ireland ever came up in the pre referendum er  "debate"/lies ( choose your own term)

Actually, your term may be more apt than you intended. After all, It is not dissimilar to the language used by those, who dismissed genuine concerns about the ransacking of our club.

Like the country, our fanbase has been bitterly split between "Venky lovers" and "fair weather fans" ( to choose two from many alternatives).

My take is that Steve Kean is pretty much universally hated by Rovers fans. Only 73%? You have to be having a laugh!

Edited September 8, 2019 by Leonard Venkhater

[DE.]

In fairness when Joe expanded it was more like 95% hated or disliked Kean, and you can call the other 5% an outlier as trolls or oddballs.

[Leonard Venkhater]

 

 

 

 

 

3

1 minute ago, Stuart said:

So go ahead and make your documentary with your angle but do expect there to be criticism if people strongly disagree.

You’ve picked a very emotive topic and you will need to have a far thicker skin as a result.

However, if you want balance then your questions have to be balanced and open. As Matty points out, you are trying to lead people to agree with your narrative with the way you are wording your questions. You appear to have already divided your respondents into “positive” and “negative”.

Venkys are still here but toy want fans to behave like it’s a fresh start. There can be no fresh start until Venkys and their self-made, failure-chasing debt, are in the past rather than the present. 

Good point that.

The "fresh start" syndrome is a well-known mistake made by those, working to protect children from abuse/neglect etc. What it does is allow workers to choose to avoid analysis of patterns of behaviour, and thus reduces focus on actual risk.

I also think it partly relates to discomfort about what harm people are actually capable of doing. And I think that speaks to the Stockholm syndrome at work with many Rovers fans."They were badly advised" They have learned their lesson." ( heard as early as 2011 by the way!)...which allows amnesia of behaviour during Lambert's tenure and the sudden appearance of Owen Coyle...5 years after the "badly advised" appointment of Steve Kean!

FOV by the way!

[lraC]

2 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

I see the "remoaner" thing might a joke. I guess the trouble with the term is that it is convenient slang used by the likes of Johnson and Farage to dismiss genuine concerns about a no deal Brexit. Clearly, neither no deal nor Ireland ever came up in the pre referendum er  "debate"/lies ( choose your own term)

Actually, your term may be more aprt than you intended. After all, It is not dissimilar to the language used by those, who dismissed genuine concerns about the ransacking of our club.

Like the country, our fanbase has been bitterly split between "Venky lovers" and "fair weather fans" ( to choose two from many alternatives).

My take is that Steve Kean is pretty much universally hated by Rovers fans. Only 73%? You have to be having a laugh!

For the fans who do think Venkys were badly advised, is it something they want to believe, or has someone senior at the club actually come out and suggested, this was the case?

Since his arrival at the Club, Waggot has been trying to find ways, to bring some lost fans back. If I was one of the owners and was badly advised or duped, I would ensure that this was made public and perhaps ask for an apology and a clean slate. So far as I am aware this badly advised theme, is one thought up by people who perhaps want to believe that.

Whilst I would never knock a fan, who wants to ignore what the owners have done and simply want to attend the matches, it cannot be ignored, how the owners seemed to be complicit in the demise and have never taken any steps to explain that they weren’t. 

Edited September 7, 2019 by lraC

[Leonard Venkhater]

On 05/09/2019 at 11:14, arbitro said:

I respect what you are trying to do but I can't see the point of a documentary that doesn't go back to 2011 when the seeds were really sown for our demise. There have been two relegations and a few seasons when we barely survived. One season with a promotion from Division Three doesn't come anywhere near air brushing out the despair that has generally been around more often than not. If it hadn't have been for them there probably wouldn't have been many lows.

To reach out to the wider football world it has to be warts and all and if Venkys are heavily criticised then people are only telling the truth.

 

 

I heard of a schoolboy, who wrote an essay on Hitler and wrote about his weird moustache, his deliberate attempts to look like Chaplin and his dreams of becoming an artist in Vienna.

No mention of the Holocaust though!

[Leonard Venkhater]

On 05/09/2019 at 14:32, philipl said:

The story actually starts 2007/8

Really? I would be interested in that.

[Stuart]

15 hours ago, lraC said:

For the fans who do think Venkys were badly advised, is it something they want to believe, or has someone senior at the club actually come out and suggested, this was the case?

Since his arrival at the Club, Waggot has been trying to find ways, to bring some lost fans back. If I was one of the owners and was badly advised or duped, I would ensure that this was made public and perhaps ask for an apology and a clean slate. So far as I am aware this badly advised theme, is one thought up by people who perhaps want to believe that.

Whilst I would never knock a fan, who wants to ignore what the owners have done and simply want to attend the matches, it cannot be ignored, how the owners seemed to be complicit in the demise and have never taken any steps to explain that they weren’t. 

Agree with most of that. However, I don’t agree that Waggott has tried to bring back lost fans. To date he has looked at ways of maximising the money made out of existing fans.

[lraC]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Agree with most of that. However, I don’t agree that Waggott has tried to bring back lost fans. To date he has looked at ways of maximising the money made out of existing fans.

That’s pretty fair, which is a sad indictment on him. Perhaps even he knows that the lost fans won’t return, without at least some sort of an explanation, so he tries to exploit, those who don’t need one. 

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, lraC said:

That’s pretty fair, which is a sad indictment on him. Perhaps even he knows that the lost fans won’t return, without at least some sort of an explanation, so he tries to exploit, those who don’t need one. 

Actually, I think there are things he is trying, lot least with the local Asian community, BUT..he is certainly squeezing the remainers lol

[MCMC1875]

Badly advised FFS? If I paid £100 for 5lb of King Edwards, I wouldn't say I was badly advised by the greengrocer. Caveat emptor.

FOV.

Edited September 8, 2019 by MCMC1875

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

Badly advised FFS? If I paid £100 for 5lb of King Edwards, I wouldn't say I was badly advised by the greengrocer. Caveat emptor.

FOV.

What if you and the greengrocer were in cahoots and the other greengrocer was a silent partner? Your name was above the shop door, as you sold dodgy veg together.

Then, things got too hot and you and said greengrocer fell out? ....Oops, and the authorities were in partnership with the same greengrocer?

 

[MCMC1875]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

What if you and the greengrocer were in cahoots and the other greengrocer was a silent partner? Your name was above the shop door, as you sold dodgy veg together.

Then, things got too hot and you and said greengrocer fell out? ....Oops, and the authorities were in partnership with the same greengrocer?

 

We've never had greengrocer wars in Ossy........

.......yet.

Greengrocer authorities? Is that the council?

Where did I say the veg was dodgy?

Edited September 8, 2019 by MCMC1875

[Guest]

On 07/09/2019 at 13:54, Stuart said:

You appear to have already divided your respondents into “positive” and “negative”.

Tell me how I have done that, honestly, by choosing to make a documentary that isn't about Venkys. Since the first ten minutes this thread was created you've made your best efforts to shit all over it, come back at everything I've had to say, despite the fact our opinions on the clubs ownership are so similar.

It's a real shame how much of an agenda you're pushing at me. Have to say it's bloody hilarious how out here, in the public space, this is the reaction, but every private message I've received, and the polling results, don't agree with what you're saying.

If every single person, publically, privately and in that poll shared your view that everything I'm trying to do here is god shitting awful, then maybe I'd stand down, but as much as you might not want to believe it, you're in the minority. People don't want to re-open the Venkys wound, and I won't be the person to do it. No matter how often or hard you try to push me on it. 

[Guest]

On 07/09/2019 at 13:57, Leonard Venkhater said:

I see the "remoaner" thing might a joke. I guess the trouble with the term is that it is convenient slang used by the likes of Johnson and Farage to dismiss genuine concerns about a no deal Brexit. Clearly, neither no deal nor Ireland ever came up in the pre referendum er  "debate"/lies ( choose your own term)

 Actually, your term may be more aprt than you intended. After all, It is not dissimilar to the language used by those, who dismissed genuine concerns about the ransacking of our club.

Like the country, our fanbase has been bitterly split between "Venky lovers" and "fair weather fans" ( to choose two from many alternatives).

My take is that Steve Kean is pretty much universally hated by Rovers fans. Only 73%? You have to be having a laugh!

Or.. just maybe... it was a joke, and you know nothing of my political opinions.

Again, I can't change those statistics, I merely reported them. Disagree with those people's answers all you want, but don't have a dicky fit at me for it  

[MCMC1875]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

Tell me how I have done that, honestly, by choosing to make a documentary that isn't about Venkys. Since the first ten minutes this thread was created you've made your best efforts to shit all over it, come back at everything I've had to say, despite the fact our opinions on the clubs ownership are so similar.

It's a real shame how much of an agenda you're pushing at me. Have to say it's bloody hilarious how out here, in the public space, this is the reaction, but every private message I've received, and the polling results, don't agree with what you're saying.

If every single person, publically, privately and in that poll shared your view that everything I'm trying to do here is god shitting awful, then maybe I'd stand down, but as much as you might not want to believe it, you're in the minority. People don't want to re-open the Venkys wound, and I won't be the person to do it. No matter how often or hard you try to push me on it. 

Stand down Harvey,

Stand down please,

Stand down Harvey,

[Guest]

Just now, MCMC1875 said:

Stand down Harvey,

Stand down please,

Stand down Harvey,

It's a shame

Edited September 8, 2019 by JoeHarvey
Duplicates

[Guest]

It's not far off 50/50. I share SO MANY of your views, I don't agree with a lot of what's on here, but these are people's opinions, and to say that they're the minority, idiots or don't know what they're talking about is a little unfair. Your opinion is your opinion, and theirs is theirs.

I'm not making a Documentary about the Venkys because I'd rather not be sued any time soon. There's one already out there, I've nothing more to add to the matter, and I'd rather not be under investigation for making something about the owners that will achieve absolutely bot all.

I'm not a Venky lover, I just don't want to make a documentary about them. Again, for the documentary I actually am making, if anyone has any materials, opinions about Kean, Bowyer or Mowbray, memories from the League One season, or any thoughts to add for the film, please let me know, and if you'd rather mail me privately then do so (I really wouldn't blame you).

This thread has turned into something it was never supposed to be, and I think its a real shame that this is the way things have to be. I ain't making a documentary about the Venkys, I never intended to, I'm pretty sure nobody really wants or needs it either. If you don't like that, then fine, but you're not being productive, helpful or very nice at all by continuing to hound the subject into the ground. I'll be muting this topic shortly, as nobody is getting anywhere, and quite frankly I'm really disappointed in the "rovers family" on this one, some of you really do have nothing nice to say at all.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, JoeHarvey said:

It's not far off 50/50. I share SO MANY of your views, I don't agree with a lot of what's on here, but these are people's opinions, and to say that they're the minority, idiots or don't know what they're talking about is a little unfair. Your opinion is your opinion, and theirs is theirs.

I'm not making a Documentary about the Venkys because I'd rather not be sued any time soon. There's one already out there, I've nothing more to add to the matter, and I'd rather not be under investigation for making something about the owners that will achieve absolutely bot all.

I'm not a Venky lover, I just don't want to make a documentary about them. Again, for the documentary I actually am making, if anyone has any materials, opinions about Kean, Bowyer or Mowbray, memories from the League One season, or any thoughts to add for the film, please let me know, and if you'd rather mail me privately then do so (I really wouldn't blame you).

This thread has turned into something it was never supposed to be, and I think its a real shame that this is the way things have to be. I ain't making a documentary about the Venkys, I never intended to, I'm pretty sure nobody really wants or needs it either. If you don't like that, then fine, but you're not being productive, helpful or very nice at all by continuing to hound the subject into the ground. I'll be muting this topic shortly, as nobody is getting anywhere, and quite frankly I'm really disappointed in the "rovers family" on this one, some of you really do have nothing nice to say at all.

I will file this under "Oh poor me!"

[roversfan99]

I find it a bit strange that you keep saying that you "arent making a documentary about Venkys" when half of the questions on your survey are about Venkys!

The main question that people have taken issue with is because even if it is totally accidental, it as if you are trying to pigeon hole people into either drawing a line under what Venkys have done and "looking forward" as if they are no longer still the elephant in the room, or alternatively as a person who is resentful about the past to the extent that they are unable to look forward at the same time. With a prefer not to answer option as a bit of a cop out that ultimately doesnt detract from the fact that the question has 2 actual answers.

By the way, the opinions of "give them a chance" and "my views have changed on them. I am pro venkys now" are hilariously idiotic.

[Guest]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

By the way, the opinions of "give them a chance" and "my views have changed on them. I am pro venkys now" are hilariously idiotic.

Yet they are opinions. The fact you just want to ignore them says more than enough for me that you lot can continue this squabble without me ??

[OldEwoodBlue]

6 minutes ago, JoeHarvey said:

It's not far off 50/50. I share SO MANY of your views, I don't agree with a lot of what's on here, but these are people's opinions, and to say that they're the minority, idiots or don't know what they're talking about is a little unfair. Your opinion is your opinion, and theirs is theirs.

 

substitute the headings....

blue = season ticket holders 8600

red = boycotters 8000

yellow = occasional walk ons fair game for the Waggott Tax

 

Why is our fan base split like this ?

Venkys.

Modern day Rovers is defined by them so you shouldn't really be surprised about the reaction when you poke at the old wounds and find a load of infected puss oozes out.

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, MCMC1875 said:

We've never had greengrocer wars in Ossy........

.......yet.

Greengrocer authorities? Is that the council?

Where did I say the veg was dodgy?

But The Food Standards Agency is such a mouthful!

Orr-anges are not the only fruit..but I know they are not veg. North London cabbages are myles better than anything in Ossy.

 

[Stuart]

25 minutes ago, JoeHarvey said:

Tell me how I have done that, honestly, by choosing to make a documentary that isn't about Venkys. Since the first ten minutes this thread was created you've made your best efforts to shit all over it, come back at everything I've had to say, despite the fact our opinions on the clubs ownership are so similar.

It's a real shame how much of an agenda you're pushing at me. Have to say it's bloody hilarious how out here, in the public space, this is the reaction, but every private message I've received, and the polling results, don't agree with what you're saying.

If every single person, publically, privately and in that poll shared your view that everything I'm trying to do here is god shitting awful, then maybe I'd stand down, but as much as you might not want to believe it, you're in the minority. People don't want to re-open the Venkys wound, and I won't be the person to do it. No matter how often or hard you try to push me on it. 

Kean said exactly the same about me and several others. Your opinion of me matters none. You stick with all those hundreds of people quietly sending you supportive PMs though. Ironically, Kean himself also got a similar number of supportive personal letters delivered to him by his beleaguered postman.

Actually, you sound a lot like him: Focus on the positives; real fans can see what you are trying to do; fans need to move on and back the Venkys.

We were called 1%. I hindsight we were more like 5% of the genuine fans. Didn’t make us any less right and doesn’t make us any less right now either. You made the choice to rake up old ground. Deal with the criticism.

Venkys Out.

[Leonard Venkhater]

 

 

 

 

32 minutes ago, JoeHarvey said:

Or.. just maybe... it was a joke, and you know nothing of my political opinions.

Again, I can't change those statistics, I merely reported them. Disagree with those people's answers all you want, but don't have a dicky fit at me for it  

Or care.....

[lraC]

It’s feeling like someone has bought a cactus and donated it to the club. It’s the new BRFC plant