January transfer window 2020

[islander200]

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not a tough day at all Jim so despite your patronising comments as I went out for Indian and few drinks with the missus. To celebrate Brexit and for Kobe Bryant passing away(my favourite NBA player of all time). Its a shame people posted my Twitter posts as My life must be so interesting to you people. 

Never said 7 to 9 signings this window tho Jim. But talk over a season. 

Went Balti Stan in Clayton Le Moors and then My local pub Hare and hounds. 

It does and no journeyman signed. 

Would like a couple in but that's life. I haven't lost sleep over it. No point signing players we don't want. 

Plus all key players are Still here. 

What did you have in Balti Stan?

[Paul Mani]

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not a tough day at all Jim so despite your patronising comments as I went out for Indian and few drinks with the missus. To celebrate Brexit and for Kobe Bryant passing away(my favourite NBA player of all time). Its a shame people posted my Twitter posts as My life must be so interesting to you people. 

Never said 7 to 9 signings this window tho Jim. But talk over a season. 

Went Balti Stan in Clayton Le Moors and then My local pub Hare and hounds. 

It does and no journeyman signed. 

Would like a couple in but that's life. I haven't lost sleep over it. No point signing players we don't want. 

Plus all key players are Still here. 

Top man Chaddy. There’s a lot to be said about positive mindsets mate. Hope you enjoyed your night. 

[Paul Mani]

Just now, islander200 said:

What did you have in Balti Stan?

I was thinking the same!! ??

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, Paul Mani said:

I might be wrong here but isn’t there also a rule that you cannot lose more than £13m per year (and £39m over a three year period)? If so then at £26m, there really wasn’t any wriggle room without sales and / or releasing wages via loans etc to make any signings in Jan? 

I'm fairly sure the rule is simply that you can't lose any more than £39 m over the 3 year period. As far as I'm aware there's no restriction on annual losses before that which is presumably why you see some Clubs vastly overspending in the hope that they'll be promoted before the sanctions come into effect.

[AJW]

28 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Not a tough day at all Jim so despite your patronising comments as I went out for Indian and few drinks with the missus. To celebrate Brexit and for Kobe Bryant passing away(my favourite NBA player of all time). Its a shame people posted my Twitter posts as My life must be so interesting to you people. 

Never said 7 to 9 signings this window tho Jim. But talk over a season. 

Went Balti Stan in Clayton Le Moors and then My local pub Hare and hounds. 

It does and no journeyman signed. 

Would like a couple in but that's life. I haven't lost sleep over it. No point signing players we don't want. 

Plus all key players are Still here. 

You a Claytoner then Chaddy ??? .... Top ender or bottom ender ???

[RevidgeBlue]

9 minutes ago, islander200 said:

What did you have in Balti Stan?

Please don't.

Being made aware of Chaddy's increasingly  frantic attempts on Twitter to find out if there was any Rovers related news when he should have been enjoying a night out with his good lady was bad enough, the funniest thing I've seen in a long time.

Like Alan Partridge self imploding live on air when Roger Moore should have been coming in. But didn't.

Don't take it the wrong way Chadster, everyone should have your passion and enthusiasm.

Edited February 1, 2020 by RevidgeBlue

[Paul Mani]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

I'm fairly sure the rule is simply that you can't lose any more than £39 m over the 3 year period. As far as I'm aware there's no restriction on annual losses before that which is presumably why you see some Clubs vastly overspending in the hope that they'll be promoted before the sanctions come into effect.

Ahh...fair enough. In that case we’re potentially over that £26m run rate and worries that we wouldn’t be able to trade freely in the summer when it is much easier.

Thanks for the info. The summer is BIG, HUGE!

Imo a lot of the recruitment depends on the progress of JRC, Buckley, Thompson, Butterworth, Hilton, Fisher etc and whether they can prove their worth to the team like Travis has. If they can then the volume of signings needed will reduce and the quality / cost increase.

[J*B]

41 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Ok, thanks. So maybe the V’s £5m contribution each year brings those operating losses from say £12m down to £7m and so over the two seasons (18/19 & 19/20) we have lost £14m plus the £12m net that @J*B referred to which would put us on £26m over two years and bang on track.

So theoretically, with a third of our earners out of contract in the summer and should the likes of JRC, Buckley, Thompson etc break through then we should have a healthy-ish budget to trade in the operating losses plus some money (£6m) to spend on fees? As long as V’s are willing to pump in another £5m...

You’re combining losses and transfer spend. The maximum we can lose is 13m a season and that includes a maximum of 8m investment from benefactors (so it’s actually 5m + 8m). Rovers run at a loss of 13m a season because they’ve been told the owners will always put in their maximum 8m. FFP looks at annual losses, not transfer fees or wages - it’s running costs combined. 

Next year is already included in the FFP calculator as a projection. This helps us because our running costs for next year are currently due to get smaller. What hampers us is the 12m spent on strikers who as yet don’t score very much and we will need so many players. 
It’s almost impossible to tell without being privy (and understanding) all the books which are submitted, but as I see it year 1 and 2 are at the absolute limit. Year 3 should give us a little bit more flexibility, but if we assume we aren’t renewing all these contracts (which gives us the flexibility) we need a lot of players. If they spend money I suspect it would be on one player there can’t possibly by the 6m on fees when they’re going to need to sign/loan around 8 players. 

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Ahh...fair enough. In that case we’re potentially over that £26m run rate and worries that we wouldn’t be able to trade freely in the summer when it is much easier.

Thanks for the info. The summer is BIG, HUGE!

Imo a lot of the recruitment depends on the progress of JRC, Buckley, Thompson, Butterworth, Hilton, Fisher etc and whether they can prove their worth to the team like Travis has. If they can then the volume of signings needed will reduce and the quality / cost increase.

It's not hard info, I'm only surmising, but you're right, if your projections are anywhere near correct then this summer is vital.

[Amo]

11 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Top man Chaddy. There’s a lot to be said about positive mindsets mate. 

There’s positivity and there’s cognitive dissonance. I can see the confusion. 

[Paul Mani]

8 minutes ago, J*B said:

You’re combining losses and transfer spend. The maximum we can lose is 13m a season and that includes a maximum of 8m investment from benefactors (so it’s actually 5m + 8m). Rovers run at a loss of 13m a season because they’ve been told the owners will always put in their maximum 8m. FFP looks at annual losses, not transfer fees or wages - it’s running costs combined. 

Next year is already included in the FFP calculator as a projection. This helps us because our running costs for next year are currently due to get smaller. What hampers us is the 12m spent on strikers who as yet don’t score very much and we will need so many players. 
It’s almost impossible to tell without being privy (and understanding) all the books which are submitted, but as I see it year 1 and 2 are at the absolute limit. Year 3 should give us a little bit more flexibility, but if we assume we aren’t renewing all these contracts (which gives us the flexibility) we need a lot of players. If they spend money I suspect it would be on one player there can’t possibly by the 6m on fees when they’re going to need to sign/loan around 8 players. 

Ok, thank you. So I guess the quality of those summer signings depend hugely on the develeopment of JRC, Bucko, Butterworth, Fisher, Hilton, Thompson etc which could mean we need 5 instead of 8? A decent sale would help too...

I know what I’d be doing if I were Mowbray. I’d be giving JRC, Buckley, Hilton, Butterworth and Thompson time on the pitch. If three of them can impact the first team similarly to Travis and one maybe star for us. It will create a much easier summer and potentially a big sale.

Edited February 1, 2020 by Paul Mani

[OldEwoodBlue]

57 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Ok, thanks. So maybe the V’s £5m contribution each year brings those operating losses from say £12m down to £7m and so over the two seasons (18/19 & 19/20) we have lost £14m plus the £12m net that @J*B referred to which would put us on £26m over two years and bang on track.

So theoretically, with a third of our earners out of contract in the summer and should the likes of JRC, Buckley, Thompson etc break through then we should have a healthy-ish budget to trade in the operating losses plus some money (£6m) to spend on fees? As long as V’s are willing to pump in another £5m...

18/19 loss was £19 million.

19/20 loss will no doubt be the same.

Thats £38 million in 2 seasons and one still to go.

Each 3 season cycle must include £20 million net transfer profits or we are basically fucked.

 

This financial stuff is exactly what the consultation meeting is for. Hopefully they will take the opportunity to explain the exact situation, else the questions will extract it. It is important that the whole fanbase is afforded the luxury of clear understanding of the state of our club. 

[Paul Mani]

7 minutes ago, Amo said:

There’s positivity and there’s cognitive dissonance. I can see the confusion. 

Shit happens in life. But we have a choice in how to deal with it. I’d take Chaddy’s positive outlook on life everyday over being negative.

[OldEwoodBlue]

The only good thing from our window is that Tony doesn't have more players to choose from.

Far more chance of success leaving him a squad of 15. Maybe others within the club have also realised this.

[Paul Mani]

1 minute ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

18/19 loss was £19 million.

19/20 loss will no doubt be the same.

Thats £38 million in 2 seasons and one still to go.

Each 3 season cycle must include £20 million net transfer profits or we are basically fucked.

 

This financial stuff is exactly what the consultation meeting is for. Hopefully they will take the opportunity to explain the exact situation, else the questions will extract it. It is important that the whole fanbase is afforded the luxury of clear understanding of the state of our club. 

Woah. That’s eye watering. So literally the only way we will get through next season without triggering FFP would be to generate £16m profit in the next 12 months through player sales?

When is the consultation meeting? 

[arbitro]

3 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Ok, thank you. So I guess the quality of those summer signings depend hugely on the develeopment of JRC, Bucko, Butterworth, Fisher, Hilton, Thompson etc which could mean we need 5 instead of 8? A decent sale would help too...

I know what I’d be doing if I were Mowbray. I’d be giving JRC, Buckley, Hilton, Butterworth and Thompson time on the pitch. If three of them can impact the first team similarly to Travis and one maybe star for us. It will create a much easier summer and potentially a big sale.

So would I but I have grave doubts that he will. And if he does it will only be when our season is confirmed. I watched the under 23's last Saturday and was mightily impressed with some of the younger group. Two French lads in particular caught my eye. 

In a nutshell it's the only way forward in my view but the manager has to come out of his 'safe' mode but, as I said I doubt he will.

[Pedro]

14 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Ahh...fair enough. In that case we’re potentially over that £26m run rate and worries that we wouldn’t be able to trade freely in the summer when it is much easier.

Thanks for the info. The summer is BIG, HUGE!

Imo a lot of the recruitment depends on the progress of JRC, Buckley, Thompson, Butterworth, Hilton, Fisher etc and whether they can prove their worth to the team like Travis has. If they can then the volume of signings needed will reduce and the quality / cost increase.

That's one of the reasons for my total disdain towards the manager.

The losses are what they are and can't be reduced by anything other than player sales or club revenue. The Vs can't just inject their own funds to reduce FFP losses - otherwise they could throw in tens of millions and we could buy our way out of this league.  Our transfer 'policy' has tied us in a knot now to the point that we can't even make small purchases without the guarantee of selling someone.  

Also, the out of contract players won't decrease the debt in any way, shape or form - only bonus is, they won't increase it...yet they'll need replacing and most likely for cheaper, younger, unproven options.  That is something else quite a number of overly-optimistic fans are misunderstanding.

[Mashed Potatoes]

3 minutes ago, arbitro said:

So would I but I have grave doubts that he will. And if he does it will only be when our season is confirmed. I watched the under 23's last Saturday and was mightily impressed with some of the younger group. Two French lads in particular caught my eye. 

In a nutshell it's the only way forward in my view but the manager has to come out of his 'safe' mode but, as I said I doubt he will.

If the manager played young players who proved not to be ready the mob on here would pounce on him in a state of fury.

[OldEwoodBlue]

1 minute ago, Paul Mani said:

Woah. That’s eye watering. So literally the only way we will get through next season without triggering FFP would be to generate £16m profit in the next 12 months through player sales?

When is the consultation meeting? 

Otherwise known as the Dack plan.

Or revenue generated from elsewhere.

6th Feb (Thursday)

[Paul Mani]

Just now, OldEwoodBlue said:

The only good thing from our window is that Tony doesn't have more players to choose from.

Far more chance of success leaving him a squad of 15. Maybe others within the club have also realised this.

Based on what you have said, Had I known I would’ve been praying we didn’t sign anyone! We need to get the young lads playing and playing well before the summer.

Thats the only way we will reduce operating costs and therefore losses and provides the best opportunity to sell one or two of them in the summer.

Early in Jan I told you that there were big clubs sniffing around Bucko. I knew this because there is a strong feeling around the players and coaches that the new trend for big clubs is to buy very young players for seven or eight figures, develop and play them then sell them. The likes of Sancho started this trend and Milan’s £10m bid for Robinson Is even more proof. The more I think of it, I think Bucko was played in December to entice those clubs into a big bid. Unfortunately he didn’t take that chance in December and therefore a bid was never going to happen. But Rovers success at youth and u23 level is not going unnoticed by the big clubs.

[J*B]

6 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Woah. That’s eye watering. So literally the only way we will get through next season without triggering FFP would be to generate £16m profit in the next 12 months through player sales?

When is the consultation meeting? 

I think the next one is Feb 8th. We have some tickets if you want to go. 
I keep posting it and nobody listens but the money we have spent so far is BASED ON SELLING DACK. We don’t have that luxury now for 12 months. 

[Paul Mani]

6 minutes ago, arbitro said:

So would I but I have grave doubts that he will. And if he does it will only be when our season is confirmed. I watched the under 23's last Saturday and was mightily impressed with some of the younger group. Two French lads in particular caught my eye. 

In a nutshell it's the only way forward in my view but the manager has to come out of his 'safe' mode but, as I said I doubt he will.

I don’t think the gaffer has any choice mate. If the numbers are right then it’s that or we’re knackered! ?

[Pedro]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

If the manager played young players who proved not to be ready the mob on here would pounce on him in a state of fury.

No they wouldn't. The 'mob' on here have been pro Nyambe, Travis, JRC, Chapman and many others- whilst Mowbray hasn't. It's a theme that has run for years on here- we are proper supporters of Rovers and would much rather blood our quality young players than persevere with shite or people out of position.

 

 

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

If the manager played young players who proved not to be ready the mob on here would pounce on him in a state of fury.

Really don't think they would.

Similarly you could put up with finishing 15th or lower temporarily if you could see evidence that there was a promising team of youngsters emerging.

But not a load of sad sacks who are never going to get you promoted and never going to get any better.

[arbitro]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

If the manager played young players who proved not to be ready the mob on here would pounce on him in a state of fury.

Fans on messageboard should influence things then? Mowbray is the only person who can control this situation. Many see the youngsters as a way forward - what's your suggestion?