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January transfer window 2020


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3 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

You are either being disingenuous or you are ridiculously naive  :D

You honestly think that TM, who lives in the north east and is a football obsessive hadn’t even heard of Sunderland’s Scotland international and number 1 keeper until last week?!

Especially since he spends "a lot of time with the head of recruitment as you live or die by recruitment". Quite clear we need a goalie or two, so he would definitely have been discussed and been on the 'freebie' list.

Might be wrong but it is easier to say 'never heard of him' than admit that another long term target did not get over the line.

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14 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

You are either being disingenuous or you are ridiculously naive  :D

You honestly think that TM, who lives in the north east and is a football obsessive hadn’t even heard of Sunderland’s Scotland international and number 1 keeper until last week?!

When we played Burnley in the league cup a couple of years ago he said he didn't know Rovers and Burnley were rivals. For a supposed football man I thought that was staggering. 

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17 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

You are either being disingenuous or you are ridiculously naive  :D

I shared a link and quoted the manager. I didn't give a single opinion on the matter regarding whether I believed it or not... How can I have shown naivety or been disingenuous in the process of my actions there? Christ. Seems as though you always have something to say to me, whether there's substance or not (as there REALLY isn't in this case...)

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Just now, Mattyblue said:

I was replying to chaddy...

Impossible to know as it wasn't quoted, and there's a clear track record so one just had to resort to assumption.

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2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

A clear track record of what? Chewing the fat with you on a message board?

 

Responding in with an opposition stance to everything I post on the entire forum.. Without the quote I just assumed the post was in my direction.  

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Do I buggery! (Oops opposition again  :D)

But if I disagree I’ll post my opposing views. Not going to apologise for that, nothing personal, it’s how it works. 
 

Anyway sure we’ll agree to leave it there and move on as the rest of the board doesn’t want to see a page of back and forth over a misunderstanding...

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1 hour ago, JoeH said:

 

 

"I didn't know the kids name until last week". Tony Mowbray on Jon McLaughlin, denying any interest whatsoever in the goalkeeper.

I'd expect the manager of a team in desperate need of a new goalkeeper to be aware of the names of the most likely prospects as a minimum. In an ideal world he'd know everything about the likes of McLauglin etc. He's either lying to save face or he really is a muppet.

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3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

What I saying on here this week that Mowbray and Rovers recruitment team will be drawing up different transfer targets for different scenarios/budgets @roversfan99

I never said otherwise but its all pointless when the manager literally has absolutely no idea on what budget he will have to work with. Sadly the owners are backwards, illogical, reactive and ultimately disinterested and it means there is a large waiting period in which we are sitting on our hands and other teams can steal a march. These clowns will never change their ways. That could even be a budget for each of the 2 divisions, although it makes sense based on probability to be prudent and anticipate Championship football, presumably any budget will be restricted and then plan for that. On the off chance that we were promoted its hardly the end of the world. Somehow the need to extend Bell's contract has overriden this "waiting to see what league we are in" nonsense although to be fair he is one of the lads and both Chelsea and City need a left back so maybe that was the fear...

Also, interesting to see Mowbray dismiss the McLaughlin link out of hand. Youve been an echo chamber for weeks and weeks about Alan Nixon claiming the deal is close to being done so it further highlights his lack of credibility.

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12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Also, interesting to see Mowbray dismiss the McLaughlin link out of hand. Youve been an echo chamber for weeks and weeks about Alan Nixon claiming the deal is close to being done so it further highlights his lack of credibility.

Very damming of Nixon, you could say...

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13 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

This imo sums up in a nutshell why we will never ever do a thing under Mowbray even if he weret to stay until he pops his clogs.

It's obvious from that article if the budget for next season is the same Mowbray's ideal scenario would be to give everyone contract extensions and keep the squad the same.

Everyone else would be thinking "Thank god for that" set a match to the squad and rebuild around Lenihan, Nyambe, Travis, Armstrong and Dack.

 

you know the penalty for standing still in football with the same players every year,it`s called mid table obscurity at best and relegation soon after,if mowbray does`nt get a penny from venkys,he should still be looking for players on the free transfer list,we`ve also got the horrid scenario of dack,lenihan,travis and maybe nyambe attracting attention from others

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1 minute ago, simongarnerisgod said:

you know the penalty for standing still in football with the same players every year,it`s called mid table obscurity at best and relegation soon after,if mowbray does`nt get a penny from venkys,he should still be looking for players on the free transfer list,we`ve also got the horrid scenario of dack,lenihan,travis and maybe nyambe attracting attention from others

Free transfers still require expenditure in the form of signing on fees, agents fees etc.

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3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I never said otherwise but its all pointless when the manager literally has absolutely no idea on what budget he will have to work with. Sadly the owners are backwards, illogical, reactive and ultimately disinterested and it means there is a large waiting period in which we are sitting on our hands and other teams can steal a march. These clowns will never change their ways. That could even be a budget for each of the 2 divisions, although it makes sense based on probability to be prudent and anticipate Championship football, presumably any budget will be restricted and then plan for that. On the off chance that we were promoted its hardly the end of the world. Somehow the need to extend Bell's contract has overriden this "waiting to see what league we are in" nonsense although to be fair he is one of the lads and both Chelsea and City need a left back so maybe that was the fear...

Also, interesting to see Mowbray dismiss the McLaughlin link out of hand. Youve been an echo chamber for weeks and weeks about Alan Nixon claiming the deal is close to being done so it further highlights his lack of credibility.

Amari'i Bell is probably on less than £5k a week and puts effort in on and off the pitch by all accounts. Even if we buy a left back I wouldn't mind if he was in the squad; if we get promoted and buy two left backs he'll be a back up player on less than 12 months remaining for the contract. It's a no-brainer really.

Realistically, if we aren't going up, we will probably look at buying a left back and then Bell will remain as cover. That's decent business in my eyes. After those 12 months he either massively improves or he's off for free and we replace him.

Despite the fact you are the most critical supporter I have ever seen sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture. Williams has a year left and will most likely go, Hart has a year left now (bemusing one though) and aside from that we have no alternative left back. Williams sees himself as a centre half (better there than left back) and Hart will no doubt go out on loan again. If we didn't extend Bell's contract we'd be heading into the window without a left back in the squad at all.

Although I'm certain you'll label him "incompetent at best" or "savagely shite" or some other remark I actually think Bell's curve since becoming a Rovers player has always been on the up. He's been playing a lot better recently than when he first came into the Championship. With any luck he might continue that improvement. 

 

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Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Amari'i Bell is probably on less than £5k a week and puts effort in on and off the pitch by all accounts. Even if we buy a left back I wouldn't mind if he was in the squad; if we get promoted and buy two left backs he'll be a back up player on less than 12 months remaining for the contract. It's a no-brainer really.

Realistically, if we aren't going up, we will probably look at buying a left back and then Bell will remain as cover. That's decent business in my eyes. After those 12 months he either massively improves or he's off for free and we replace him.

Despite the fact you are the most critical supporter I have ever seen sometimes you need to look at the bigger picture. Williams has a year left and will most likely go, Hart has a year left now (bemusing one though) and aside from that we have no alternative left back. Williams sees himself as a centre half (better there than left back) and Hart will no doubt go out on loan again. If we didn't extend Bell's contract we'd be heading into the window without a left back in the squad at all.

Although I'm certain you'll label him "incompetent at best" or "savagely shite" or some other remark I actually think Bell's curve since becoming a Rovers player has always been on the up. He's been playing a lot better recently than when he first came into the Championship. With any luck he might continue that improvement. 

 

My main point is not even about his ability or lack of. Its of this nonsensical stance whereby our manager has yet to gain any clue as to his budget based on the off chance that we get promoted, presumably out of restraint that we dont want a couple of players pre agreed to sign on the prudent assumption that we remain in the Championship and they become far less important if promotion was achieved. Yet the approach to prematurely extend Bell's contract goes against that theory, in your scenario he is 3rd choice left back if we go up, which is unnecessary expenditure that the club seem desperate to avoid by "waiting." Wheres the consistency? Ultimately the reason that the manager is waiting to find out his budget is not because of the pandemic, the extended season or the off chance of promotion. Its because our owners do this every year, they need to summon the manager out and we are always slow off the mark and that will never change under Venkys.

Youve made a speculative and guess at his wage but we are in a financial position if the club is to be believed where we are really struggling following the pandemic. And how can we justify expenditure on players we havent used all season? (one of whoms eligibility is even in question) 

I dont think my opinion on him being not good enough is me being "the most critical supporter youve seen" as its a fairly commonly held opinion and our results have been statistically better this season when we have had someone better (Cunningham and Downing) at left back. Theres absolutely no need to second guess made up phrases that I might use to describe Bell either as if being overdramatic to imply that he is a weak point in our team.

Why will Williams almost certainly go, who is going to buy him? 

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48 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

My main point is not even about his ability or lack of. Its of this nonsensical stance whereby our manager has yet to gain any clue as to his budget based on the off chance that we get promoted, presumably out of restraint that we dont want a couple of players pre agreed to sign on the prudent assumption that we remain in the Championship and they become far less important if promotion was achieved. Yet the approach to prematurely extend Bell's contract goes against that theory, in your scenario he is 3rd choice left back if we go up, which is unnecessary expenditure that the club seem desperate to avoid by "waiting." Wheres the consistency? Ultimately the reason that the manager is waiting to find out his budget is not because of the pandemic, the extended season or the off chance of promotion. Its because our owners do this every year, they need to summon the manager out and we are always slow off the mark and that will never change under Venkys.

Youve made a speculative and guess at his wage but we are in a financial position if the club is to be believed where we are really struggling following the pandemic. And how can we justify expenditure on players we havent used all season? (one of whoms eligibility is even in question) 

I dont think my opinion on him being not good enough is me being "the most critical supporter youve seen" as its a fairly commonly held opinion and our results have been statistically better this season when we have had someone better (Cunningham and Downing) at left back. Theres absolutely no need to second guess made up phrases that I might use to describe Bell either as if being overdramatic to imply that he is a weak point in our team.

Why will Williams almost certainly go, who is going to buy him? 

I'll focus on a few points here

  • You talk of a lack of money following the pandemic, and then you advocate walking into next season without a full time senior left back on the books. If we don't have money to pay Bell's wages (signed on L1 wages from Fleetwood) then how are we to afford another 2 senior players with added on signing fees, agents, bonuses and all that comes with it? I'm not even debating the Hart issue here, solely Bell, to which you seem to think is a poor decision. Regardless of all the claptrap about not signing players until we know what league we are in (mere speculation), if any manager went into a summer window without a registered player in a certain position he's made a balls-up. It could happen to us with a goalkeeper, unbelievably.
  • Your opinion on every player is hyper-criticial. You couldn't even squeeze in your point not being about his ability without adding in the "lack of" caveat. Tedious stuff.
  • Williams will almost certainly leave if we follow our upward trajectory. We are buying better players in every position and Williams is currently one of our weaker centre halves. Providing we continue to improve, don't lose players, you'd have to assume Williams will be gone next season. Aside from that, which is completely besides the point, Williams isn't a natural left back and if we didn't sign Bell he'd be the only senior player left in the 2021 season who could play there, without sacrificing Downing. Clearly that isn't a situation we want to be faced with.

I don't disagree with any of what you said about our owners being at fault. I just don't see the furore about a one-year extension for a player that has both improved since his arrival and is a natural in a position we are paper thin in, especially given the current financial situation of all football clubs.

As an aside, it would be nice if we got some posts from you - not just you - which didn't 99.99% of the time have some sort of ridiculous downplay of our players. I'm sick to the back teeth of reading "incompetent at best" or similar. Your criticism is overdramatic. That's all I will say on that matter because I've had this discussion with you before. Quite frankly I think it's disrespectful - your 'criticism' goes above and beyond the normal level, to a point of melodrama and often blatant untruths. 

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7 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I'll focus on a few points here

  • You talk of a lack of money following the pandemic, and then you advocate walking into next season without a full time senior left back on the books. If we don't have money to pay Bell's wages (signed on L1 wages from Fleetwood) then how are we to afford another 2 senior players with added on signing fees, agents, bonuses and all that comes with it? I'm not even debating the Hart issue here, solely Bell, to which you seem to think is a poor decision. Regardless of all the claptrap about not signing players until we know what league we are in (mere speculation), if any manager went into a summer window without a registered player in a certain position he's made a balls-up. It could happen to us with a goalkeeper, unbelievably.
  • Your opinion on every player is hyper-criticial. You couldn't even squeeze in your point not being about his ability without adding in the "lack of" caveat. Tedious stuff.
  • Williams will almost certainly leave if we follow our upward trajectory. We are buying better players in every position and Williams is currently one of our weaker centre halves. Providing we continue to improve, don't lose players, you'd have to assume Williams will be gone next season. Aside from that, which is completely besides the point, Williams isn't a natural left back and if we didn't sign Bell he'd be the only senior player left in the 2021 season who could play there, without sacrificing Downing. Clearly that isn't a situation we want to be faced with.

I don't disagree with any of what you said about our owners being at fault. I just don't see the furore about a one-year extension for a player that has both improved since his arrival and is a natural in a position we are paper thin in, especially given the current financial situation of all football clubs.

As an aside, it would be nice if we got some posts from you - not just you - which didn't 99.99% of the time have some sort of ridiculous downplay of our players. I'm sick to the back teeth of reading "incompetent at best" or similar. Your criticism is overdramatic. That's all I will say on that matter because I've had this discussion with you before. Quite frankly I think it's disrespectful - your 'criticism' goes above and beyond the normal level, to a point of melodrama and often blatant untruths. 

Your comment about me being hyper-critical over every player is absolute nonsense. I rate Nyambe, Lenihan, Armstrong, Adarabioyo, Holtby, Dack, Downing, Evans, Travis etc but ultimately I suspect you dont really notice because it naturally is the players for whom opinion differs whereby debate will be rife.

I dont think that I have been "disrespectful" in my criticism of pointing out that I don't rate Bell nor think that he has particularly improved in his time here. Ultimately the main point I was making was that there is an inconsistency in suggesting that we should hold off signing players on the prudent presumption that we will be a Championship club next season in case we then bypass them by signing further quality upon promotion, but then sign Bell. The point we differ is that you rate Bell and I don't think he is a Championship quality left back, certainly not one chasing promotion. I don't think he has particularly improved, I find that wingers facing him find it too easy to get crosses in, and also I don't feel he offers a threat going forward in terms of crosses etc, I dont think hes even assisted a goal in his time here. Phrases such as "savagely shite" which you are using as evidence to prove that I am being disrespectful and overdramatic, I have absolutely no recollection of using and am almost sure that I haven't. The same with "incompetent at best."

I wouldnt even necessarily dismiss the idea of renewing Bell's contract as long as it was as a back up in the Championship. I just think you are going down a dangerous route by signing players who you should be upgrading on the premise that you dont have any alternative, for example we wouldnt be impressed if Leutwiler was given an extra year for the same reason.

Also, you said that it was claptrap about us waiting to see what division we are in before signing anyone, Mowbray has been talking about that and the fact that he hasnt got a clue about the budget he has etc in the Lancashire Telegraph.

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2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Your comment about me being hyper-critical over every player is absolute nonsense. I rate Nyambe, Lenihan, Armstrong, Adarabioyo, Holtby, Dack, Downing, Evans, Travis etc but ultimately I suspect you dont really notice because it naturally is the players for whom opinion differs whereby debate will be rife.

I dont think that I have been "disrespectful" in my criticism of pointing out that I don't rate Bell nor think that he has particularly improved in his time here. Ultimately the main point I was making was that there is an inconsistency in suggesting that we should hold off signing players on the prudent presumption that we will be a Championship club next season in case we then bypass them by signing further quality upon promotion, but then sign Bell. The point we differ is that you rate Bell and I don't think he is a Championship quality left back, certainly not one chasing promotion. I don't think he has particularly improved, I find that wingers facing him find it too easy to get crosses in, and also I don't feel he offers a threat going forward in terms of crosses etc, I dont think hes even assisted a goal in his time here. Phrases such as "savagely shite" which you are using as evidence to prove that I am being disrespectful and overdramatic, I have absolutely no recollection of using and am almost sure that I haven't. The same with "incompetent at best."

I wouldnt even necessarily dismiss the idea of renewing Bell's contract as long as it was as a back up in the Championship. I just think you are going down a dangerous route by signing players who you should be upgrading on the premise that you dont have any alternative, for example we wouldnt be impressed if Leutwiler was given an extra year for the same reason.

Also, you said that it was claptrap about us waiting to see what division we are in before signing anyone, Mowbray has been talking about that and the fact that he hasnt got a clue about the budget he has etc in the Lancashire Telegraph.

I think the risk of leaving it til the last minute to extend Bells contract is that he could leave, then we have to pay a fee for a backup LB which we can ill afford.

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5 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I think the risk of leaving it til the last minute to extend Bells contract is that he could leave, then we have to pay a fee for a backup LB which we can ill afford.

I very much doubt that he would have clubs waiting to sign him if im honest, but even if he did leave he would be replaceable for a free.

In terms of back up, Downing and Williams are both at least on a par with him in that position so IMO we would only need to bring in a solitary left back if money is that tight.

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8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I never said otherwise but its all pointless when the manager literally has absolutely no idea on what budget he will have to work with. Sadly the owners are backwards, illogical, reactive and ultimately disinterested and it means there is a large waiting period in which we are sitting on our hands and other teams can steal a march. These clowns will never change their ways. That could even be a budget for each of the 2 divisions, although it makes sense based on probability to be prudent and anticipate Championship football, presumably any budget will be restricted and then plan for that. On the off chance that we were promoted its hardly the end of the world. Somehow the need to extend Bell's contract has overriden this "waiting to see what league we are in" nonsense although to be fair he is one of the lads and both Chelsea and City need a left back so maybe that was the fear...

Also, interesting to see Mowbray dismiss the McLaughlin link out of hand. Youve been an echo chamber for weeks and weeks about Alan Nixon claiming the deal is close to being done so it further highlights his lack of credibility.

Most clubs wont know their budgets for next season. Is the EFL bringing in wage cap for all clubs or relaxing the FFP rules or what the owners positions is currently which you overlooked every time. 

The club has exercise the club option in Bell's contract. Has his wages gone up cos of this contract extension? I would say no. You complained that you don't want Bennett at left back so surely its a good idea to extend his contract then? You cant have it both ways. 

I haven't been echo chamber at all roversfan99 but if I am then you cant have any argument in yourself being an echo chamber after every player links you dismissed it every time and then wrong the info when all the report has said we have an interest in the player according to their source not that we are deffo signing them.   

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Your comment about me being hyper-critical over every player is absolute nonsense. I rate Nyambe, Lenihan, Armstrong, Adarabioyo, Holtby, Dack, Downing, Evans, Travis etc but ultimately I suspect you dont really notice because it naturally is the players for whom opinion differs whereby debate will be rife.

I dont think that I have been "disrespectful" in my criticism of pointing out that I don't rate Bell nor think that he has particularly improved in his time here. Ultimately the main point I was making was that there is an inconsistency in suggesting that we should hold off signing players on the prudent presumption that we will be a Championship club next season in case we then bypass them by signing further quality upon promotion, but then sign Bell. The point we differ is that you rate Bell and I don't think he is a Championship quality left back, certainly not one chasing promotion. I don't think he has particularly improved, I find that wingers facing him find it too easy to get crosses in, and also I don't feel he offers a threat going forward in terms of crosses etc, I dont think hes even assisted a goal in his time here. Phrases such as "savagely shite" which you are using as evidence to prove that I am being disrespectful and overdramatic, I have absolutely no recollection of using and am almost sure that I haven't. The same with "incompetent at best."

I wouldnt even necessarily dismiss the idea of renewing Bell's contract as long as it was as a back up in the Championship. I just think you are going down a dangerous route by signing players who you should be upgrading on the premise that you dont have any alternative, for example we wouldnt be impressed if Leutwiler was given an extra year for the same reason.

Also, you said that it was claptrap about us waiting to see what division we are in before signing anyone, Mowbray has been talking about that and the fact that he hasnt got a clue about the budget he has etc in the Lancashire Telegraph.

Dreams is right when he says you are hyper critical of every player. You rate Adarabioyo or Downing? Cos last summer you said it was waste signing Downing as he was too old and his stats was awful. You wrote Adarabioyo off based on his game time at WBA last summer and the role he played there which was out of position. 

Bell has played 77 times for Rovers scoring 3 goals and 2 assists just to answered you point about him not assisted in goals. Just to compare to other players who have the full back positions, Williams during his time here has 5 goals and 12 assists, Nyambe has 3 assists during time here in the 1st team, and Bennett has 19 assists and 9 goals in his time here even tho he hasn't always played at Full Back. 

on your points about Mowbray doesnt even his budget, so which manager in the Championship knows his budget for next season? Can you name any? 

 

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5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

My main point is not even about his ability or lack of. Its of this nonsensical stance whereby our manager has yet to gain any clue as to his budget based on the off chance that we get promoted, presumably out of restraint that we dont want a couple of players pre agreed to sign on the prudent assumption that we remain in the Championship and they become far less important if promotion was achieved. Yet the approach to prematurely extend Bell's contract goes against that theory, in your scenario he is 3rd choice left back if we go up, which is unnecessary expenditure that the club seem desperate to avoid by "waiting." Wheres the consistency? Ultimately the reason that the manager is waiting to find out his budget is not because of the pandemic, the extended season or the off chance of promotion. Its because our owners do this every year, they need to summon the manager out and we are always slow off the mark and that will never change under Venkys.

Youve made a speculative and guess at his wage but we are in a financial position if the club is to be believed where we are really struggling following the pandemic. And how can we justify expenditure on players we havent used all season? (one of whoms eligibility is even in question) 

I dont think my opinion on him being not good enough is me being "the most critical supporter youve seen" as its a fairly commonly held opinion and our results have been statistically better this season when we have had someone better (Cunningham and Downing) at left back. Theres absolutely no need to second guess made up phrases that I might use to describe Bell either as if being overdramatic to imply that he is a weak point in our team.

Why will Williams almost certainly go, who is going to buy him? 

which Championship clubs are signing players to pre contract for next season? when is next season even starting? do we have a start date? 

Financial position of the club? when has the club been struggling? 

The owners have the money to fund the club as they have been doing for years and investing in our academy and seeing players coming through that system into the 1st team

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@chaddyrovers a few points

- Not wanting Bennett to play at left back but also not agreeing with renewing Bell both on ability and more pertinently at odds with a supposed postponement of transfer plans until the end of the season isnt having it both ways ? If Bell went obviously I'd expect a replacement. Downing and Williams are also competent left backs so thats 3. Bennett has no competence at left back. (not his fault) He would be a player I would look to move on too if at all possible but if not I would never consider him at left back just as I wouldnt in net. Bell and Bennett arent the only 2 options.

- Your example is perfect in proving that I am not hyper critical, which is the kind of line people throw around when they have nothing further constructive to say. Downing had faded at Boro and Adarabioyo had only really played out of position and struggle, thus my reservations were fair. Both players I have regularly praised since, 2 excellent signings. You also didnt seem to want Downing, nothing wrong with that either. Conversely from the start I expected Johnson to be a superb signing (one youve ignored) and hes been anything but overall. I dont have a policy of not rating everyone and indeed even if I have doubts about a player I like to think theres scope to change my mind. Cases A, B and C above.

- I am not interested in other clubs. Our club is regularly hindered by our owners bizarre processes and when it is blatantly relevant it gets pointed out.

- The Bell situation I feel is inconsistent with the policy of waiting until the end of the season (not that I think we should) and you quite clearly cant defend it logically hence when I asked you, you kept going on about how many times you messaged Nixon bizarrely in the last fortnight. A man coincedentally proved yet again not to know what he is talking about. 

- Do you think our manager should have no idea of his budget at this stage? Do you think he should have to go to India every summer before he finds out? Do you think this is normal, just "one of those things" or "just the way they work?!"

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