January transfer window 2020

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

To put this into perspective, Ben Brereton just turned 21, Scott Wharton is about to turn 23. One is putting in competent performances in a Championship team, and the other is putting in competent performances for a League Two team. Yet you'll find more people who want to get Scotty Wharton back to Ewood than you'll find people who think Ben Brereton WILL come good.

Breo has two years on him and still faces more criticism, cynical attitudes and WAY more expectations. If we could all just apply the same logic and the same attention to detail with Wharton, we'd be able to agree that yeah... Maybe it's time to give up on Wharton??

Competent performances ??? Give over he just turned in two back to back more lively efforts than he's ever done.

That's the sum total of it. Most want to see him given a chance to at least build on them.

But for a 7 million pound buy he's shown little if anything to be described as competent.

Running around and getting stuck in is a must it isn't optional.

[arbitro]

22 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Competent performances ??? Give over he just turned in two back to back more lively efforts than he's ever done.

That's the sum total of it. Most want to see him given a chance to at least build on them.

But for a 7 million pound buy he's shown little if anything to be described as competent.

Running around and getting stuck in is a must it isn't optional.

There seems to be a rewriting of history about Brereton. Last season he was out into the under 23 team as his confidence was so low. This season he has been injured for a chunk and had a couple of decent cameos off the bench when he got fit. He was good against Bristol City by all accounts and did moderately well on Saturday. He is a long way from a competent Championship player in my view and his solitary goal against an exceptionally poor Bolton team is the most damning statistic I can think of.

I really want the lad to do well for us and he might come good but right now, nearly two seasons since he signed he has been a disappointment.

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Will he make it? I don’t think he will here, but as a centre half he has time on his side to carve out a good career. .

It’s not as simple as just listing players ages and Championships appearances. BB has been largely crap in his for us, but has been persevered with because of the price tag, if he was out of our own academy he would have been loaned out to the lower leagues without question. Lewis Travis was a Smallwood sending off away from spending half of last season in League 1.

Would he have developed to the player he is now if he had? There’s a big element of luck and sliding doors for young players...

I remember seeing Wharton play twice for our senior side and both times I came away thinking he was a tidy player. In my opinion, that's what you judge a player on - his performances in a Rovers senior side. 

As said, when Travis first started getting game time he was struggling to cement his place. I'm sure he had a few knock abouts at right back before finally getting centre midfield his own. Nowadays, when I see a team without Travis in, I immediately think we have lost the midfield battle.

There is an extra incentive for academy players to play well because it is their chance. That's why I will always prefer to see Scott Wharton on the bench than Derrick Williams, regardless of whether Williams has played in the Championship / League 1 for most of his career - which says a lot. 

[JacknOry]

He has looked decent in the last two games and I really hope he kicks on now. At least he is starting to resemble something of a footballer. Previously he would fall over alot, miscontrol the ball,  and played like the kid that always got picked last in PE. Seeing him with a bit of confidence (and you need to have confidence to get a barnet like that) and taking on players has given me some hope that we may have a player afterall. Long way to go though - we need the performances of the last two games consistently and some goals on top. 

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, schoey said:

One of my mates is mates with him, and apparently Tony hasn’t properly given him a look in before now because he’s ‘not big enough’, so could be anyone’s guess if he’s in the squad plans for the first team for next season.

Others seem to have interpreted this as 'not tall enough'. But this isn't the case, and it isn't new information either. TM has repeatedly talked about him not being broad enough in the chest etc, in public. He wants him to get stronger, basically.

The problem for me with Wharton is he hasn't really been tested at the level below ours. This is why I was annoyed to see him go on loan to League Two again. We are asking him to jump two tiers to be in our squad. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it makes it that much of a harder decision to make.

Edited June 30, 2020 by bluebruce

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

Since when? HAHAHAHAHA I thought he was bang average until 18/19 where he improved a lot, and has continued that improvement now. "Never" rated him is ridiculous? I just don't think asking for more than £5m for a wing-back who can't pass, shoot or cross is stupid. A powerful, fast and more than competent right-back, but not a PL one yet.

There was a time you know when Nyambe would make mistakes on a weekly basis, and there was at least a genuine discussion to be had about his starting spot, those days are long gone, and to suggest my arguments about his value now in 2020 are somehow marred by his abilities in 2017-2018 is silly.

 

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

To put this into perspective, Ben Brereton just turned 21, Scott Wharton is about to turn 23. One is putting in competent performances in a Championship team, and the other is putting in competent performances for a League Two team. Yet you'll find more people who want to get Scotty Wharton back to Ewood than you'll find people who think Ben Brereton WILL come good.

Breo has two years on him and still faces more criticism, cynical attitudes and WAY more expectations. If we could all just apply the same logic and the same attention to detail with Wharton, we'd be able to agree that yeah... Maybe it's time to give up on Wharton??

Regarding Nyambe, wasnt it earlier this season that you was championing the inclusion of Bennett (who has never been a competent right back) over him based on flawed stats due to Bennett playing in various positions? That being said, it is undoubted that it is this season in which he has kicked on. His passing is fine but his final ball (aside from that great cross v Swansea) is not there as you say. Certainly dont see a Premier League team going for him at this point.

Dont agree with your comparison of Wharton and Brereton however. Neither of us (I presume) have seen Wharton much this season but he presumably has done a little more than put in "competent performances) at League 2 level, hes played a key role in getting promoted from that League again. I've seen some silly suggestions saying that he could replace Adarabioyo but in the main the question is can he play a role as 3rd or 4th choice, and considering that we have only the critical Lenihan and the back up option of Williams who is not particularly good, its not that much of a far fetched question really.

You also championed Tom White based solely on his performances for the under 23s after coming from league, so it seems strange to be dismissive of a player of the same age who has achieved 3 promotions and played 80 games in League 2.

Regarding Brereton, its a huge stretch to say that hes putting in competent performances at Championship level just yet. He has looked incompetent up until the last few games, in which he had a bright cameo v Swansea and earnt/dived for a penalty. He was then absent v Derby, and post lockdown has been fairly bright in both games but not really achieved anything. His one chance that could have built on his 1 goal in 2 years tally, he slipped on his arse!

[RoversClitheroe]

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

Ben Brereton - 21
Adam Armstrong - 23
Ryan Nyambe - 22
Lewis Travis - 22

Scott Wharton (22 - 23 soon)

Just look at that and compare. If he was going to be good enough, even nearly good enough for our first team, he would've been by now. 

2 years ago Arma was struggling to score goals in league one.

Ben Brereton has looked useless other than one of his past performances (I think he looked awful against Wigan, good against Bristol C)

Travis was nearly loaned out to league one or two 2 years ago. Yes he did get promoted too.

Scott Wharton past 2 years he's started consistently been rated by fans and has 3 promotions on his CV.

[islander200]

The manager must see something in Wharton,he gave him a new deal.

Expect him to be involved with the squad next season 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

19 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Others seem to have interpreted this as 'not tall enough'. But this isn't the case, and it isn't new information either. TM has repeatedly talked about him not being broad enough in the chest etc, in public. He wants him to get stronger, basically.

The problem for me with Wharton is he hasn't really been tested at the level below ours. This is why I was annoyed to see him go on loan to League Two again. We are asking him to jump two tiers to be in our squad. I'm not saying it can't be done, but it makes it that much of a harder decision to make.

Attitude is as important as physique in football. You've got to be aggressive at all times and not everybody has that in their nature. Plenty of good defenders are wiry but you wouldn't take liberty's with them. Lots of big guys have got by on the pitch just because they are big, but  you find out eventually that they don't relish the physical side of the game. Give me somebody who puts their body on the line for the team irrespective of their body shape.

[superniko]

We had Jack O’Connell until 22 (same age as a Wharton now), let him do the rounds on loan everywhere, now he’s playing in the top half of the Prem. 

I’d fully expect Wharton to be involved more next season and I’d be disappointed if he wasn’t. 

[Sparks Rover]

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

Ben Brereton - 21
Adam Armstrong - 23
Ryan Nyambe - 22
Lewis Travis - 22

Scott Wharton (22 - 23 soon)

Just look at that and compare. If he was going to be good enough, even nearly good enough for our first team, he would've been by now. 

He's done more than all of them. You've had a mare here lad.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Sparks Rover

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

He's done more than all of them.

I agree that Wharton could be part of our squad but does he want to part of squad or just he want to be playing regular first team football in league 1? 

[roversfan99]

I very much doubt that League 1 clubs will be able to afford him permanently, or pay any fees.

[Dreams of 1995]

7 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

He's done more than all of them. You've had a mare here lad.

Scott Wharton has done more than Adam Armstrong? The man has a League 1 promotion and 50+ senior career goals. 

Travis has become a Championship regular. Regardless of the league 2 promotion Travis has still cemented himself as a better standard of player currently.

Brereton and Nyambe you may have half a point but, even then, both of them players have senior Championship regular status, youth international caps and full international caps in the case of Nyambe.

You are on very thin ground trying to claim Wharton has done more than them players imo. Although this is in no way a slight at Scott, I want to see him in the side next season or at least playing at a level higher than League 2. 

[Sparks Rover]

24 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Scott Wharton has done more than Adam Armstrong? The man has a League 1 promotion and 50+ senior career goals. 

Travis has become a Championship regular. Regardless of the league 2 promotion Travis has still cemented himself as a better standard of player currently.

Brereton and Nyambe you may have half a point but, even then, both of them players have senior Championship regular status, youth international caps and full international caps in the case of Nyambe.

You are on very thin ground trying to claim Wharton has done more than them players imo. Although this is in no way a slight at Scott, I want to see him in the side next season or at least playing at a level higher than League 2. 

3 promotions trumps all that nothingness 

[bluebruce]

12 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

3 promotions trumps all that nothingness 

3 promotions from League Two trumps being a regular, and even regular goalscorer, in the Championship? What are you smoking today Sparks? You normally talk a lot more sense than that. Let's go see who has a bunch of promotions from Conference North and sign them up eh? Come on you can do better than that.

Pretty sure Wharton would give his right arm to be in the position that Armstrong, Travis and Nyambe are in. Not to mention they all had a promotion from League One.

And to be clear, I wouldn't mind giving Wharton a shot as a 3rd or 4th choice CB next season if he's deemed up to it. CBs do mature later as has been said. I'm actually amazed he hasn't ended up loaned to a League One side yet.

Edited June 30, 2020 by bluebruce

[RoverKyle]

I think the one thing we can all agree on is that Wharton has been mismanaged. We've done him a complete disservice sending him out on loan to L2 for 3 years. Although he's been playing 'mens football', he's been playing at that level for so long, that there will no doubt be reservations about him stepping back into a Championship team with promotion aspirations. Which begs the question, why have we let him play in L2 for so long.

I thought he looked good in the first team during his handful of appearances and would be happy to see him given a runout.

Edited June 30, 2020 by RoverKyle

[Guest]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Regarding Nyambe, wasnt it earlier this season that you was championing the inclusion of Bennett

No.. was last season when Nyambe was still putting in very poor performances on occasion and still not the complete player he is today.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

He's done more than all of them. You've had a mare here lad.

You must be joking! You're having the mare here.

Adam Armstrong:
31 Goals for England Youth Teams
1x Youth World Cup Winners Medal
1x League One Promotion
60x Senior Career Goals
Rovers Top Scorer 2019/20
15x Premier League Appearances

Harry Chapman:
2x League One Promotion
1x Youth World Cup Winners Medal
1x Johnstone's Paint Trophy
10 Goals for England Youth Teams
56 Career Appearances in League One & Championship

Scott Wharton:
3x League Two Promotions
A goal vs Crewe in the cup in 2016?

Honestly I can't believe I've had to type that out.
 

Edited June 30, 2020 by JoeH

[Sparks Rover]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

You must be joking! You're having the mare here.

Adam Armstrong:
31 Goals for England Youth Teams - who cares
1x Youth World Cup Winners Medal - Ditto
1x League One Promotion - thats good
60x Senior Career Goals - thats ok
Rovers Top Scorer 2019/20 - not a hard task
15x Premier League Appearances - give you that....

Scott Wharton:
3x League Two Promotions - 3 x that's good

Honestly I can't believe I've had to type that out.
 

 

[Sparks Rover]

8 minutes ago, JoeH said:

No.. was last season when Nyambe was still putting in very poor performances on occasion and still not the complete player he is today.

Are you saying he's improved since last season because i don't see it.

[Guest]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Are you saying he's improved since last season because i don't see it.

Completely different player from September 2018 to June 2020. Was making clangers throughout League One campaign here and there and still made defensive errors to an extent early last season. This year has been MUCH better.

[Dreams of 1995]

4 minutes ago, JoeH said:

You must be joking! You're having the mare here.

Adam Armstrong:
31 Goals for England Youth Teams
1x Youth World Cup Winners Medal
1x League One Promotion
60x Senior Career Goals
Rovers Top Scorer 2019/20
15x Premier League Appearances

Harry Chapman:
2x League One Promotion
1x Youth World Cup Winners Medal
1x Johnstone's Paint Trophy
10 Goals for England Youth Teams
56 Career Appearances in League One & Championship

Scott Wharton:
3x League Two Promotions
A goal vs Crewe in the cup in 2016?

Honestly I can't believe I've had to type that out.
 

You are very dismissive and rude to people considering when the tables are turned you always champion "fair discussion".

Just sayin. Don't play the victim when you dish it out tenfold. 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

You are very dismissive and rude to people considering when the tables are turned you always champion "fair discussion".

 

I really don't think I'm being dismissive, but if you think that's the case then fair do's Dreams. I still cannot fathom any comparison between the careers of Adam Armstrong and Scott Wharton resulting in Wharton having the better start. Nonsense. And I'm happy to stand by that stance. I don't think anything I've posted steers away from "fair discussion" but if I have steered away from fair discussion then I'm happy to be shown otherwise.

Edited June 30, 2020 by JoeH

[Guest]

If anybody wants to try and defend Scott Wharton I can understand it, I'm a huge believer in our youth, but a player turning 23 isn't for me a "youth" player anymore and shouldn't be treated like an Amazon package in special bubble wrap.

Wharton is clearly competent, but evidently not for a Top 6 chasing Championship side, as shown by his lack of inclusion under several managers at Blackburn Rovers and his bang average ability in League One and Two sides.

3x League Two promotions is awesome for him (and the clubs he's been on loan at), but look like nothing in comparison to the career's that some of our other younger players have had already who are in our first team.

For me, if you're comparing the clubs top goalscorer to a defender who can't get into our side, out on loan at a League Two team, and coming up with the result "Wharton's done more than Armstrong" then I have a right to be dismissive of that, because its nonsensical.