Sheffield Wednesday (H)

[tomphil]

Given how he arrived and how Mowbray works i'd fully expect us to sign Walton on a perm, fees probably already been agreed in principle. 

That'll be eating up next seasons budget so lets pray he comes good despite the flaws there's been one or two encouraging signs.  Although i'm 100% that Raya should have been replaced with better goalkeeper is a position you don't gamble with if you want to go anywhere.

If you can afford to spend 15 million on forwards in 12 months you could've afforded a good keeper, end of.

[Ossydave]

Just now, Hasta said:

I used to go watching my brother as a goalkeeper when he was goalkeeping for Blackburn Schoolboys years ago and if he had come out to meet a guy at the near post crouched down with his hands at head height I'd have told him it was a schoolboy error !!

If you aren't going to get to the ball you spread yourself and make yourself big. It's was a basic mistake. Again, I will add that his two other saves were cracking saves and he ultimately won us the points so it's not a witchhunt against Walton regardless (which is why we are discussing this because that's what your post earlier implied despite it being clear Walton has to have some blame apportioned to him for the goal.)

Nobody expects a flawless keeper, but in my opinion he's slightly worse than Raya and has been at fault for 3 goals in 4 games. The fact is we got £4million for Raya, spunked the money on a striker and ended up with a slightly worse keeper who we don't even own.Tthere's a very good chance Walton will be replaced sometime in the next 9 months. I'm sure most would be in agreement that if we signed him as a permanent number 1 it would be a very bad move.

 

We need an experienced keeper and TM himself alluded to that yet failed to deliver. I do however think that with a settled backline Walton will cut out mistakes too. Look at most the keepers in this league and they drop the odd clanger. Butland has made some absolutely horrific ones this season.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

Doesn’t matter who Evans was coming on for. He is a defensive midfielder who was being brought on to protect a 0-0 and a point.

I did enjoy the win but that had nothing to do with Mowbray. If he’d had his wish we wouldn’t have had that great finish and instead he would have been talking about a massive point against a top six side.

Well you don't what he was changing. It might have took Williams off and move Downing to left back. 

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Jonty was brought in to facilitate that pathway whilst Downing and Johnson were bought with a view to being here a year or two, max. Smallwood (as I said in the summer) is history and Evans will follow.

I fully expect Bucko to be starting regularly by Christmas. JRC and Butterworth to be integrated ready for next season. Chapman is more to do with him sorting himself out.

Bennett, Evans, Johnson, Downing will be squeezed out by the end of this season. That’s my prediction.

Chapman does need sort himself out big time

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

Aside from the result one of the highlights for me was the run that Nyambe went on before crashing into the hoardings in front of the Blackburn End. Hopefully the shackles can come off now for him irrespective of what position he plays in.

The power he has just hasn't been utilised enough for me.

I thought he looked excellent at centre back. seems to suit him

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

 

I was really pleased for Buckley and sincerely hope he gets more chances to start. I think there is a real player in there and from Mowbrays comments he does too.

I have to agree with you on Buckley/. There is really good player in there. 

[JacknOry]

Cracking scenes at the end, Buckley will always remember that moment. Thought Tosin was brilliant, Holtby was assured without being as effective as his last performance (perhaps he has been Mobrayed for the last couple of weeks) and Nyambe again showed why it has been a travesty he has been overlooked.

We needed that, for confidence if anything else. Still think TM has taken us as far as we can go and that we need a new manager with new ideas. 

[joey_big_nose]

Watched the whole game back on ifollow. Undoubtably we were the better side. Should have scored a couple either side of half tome. Wednesday offered virtually nothing till the last 10 mins when they went direct. A deserved result on the balance of play.

However when they did go direct though we were all over the show. Peel off a target man on Nyambe or the full backs and we're in trouble. And I think really that is why we concede so many late goals. We can't handle to direct stuff. They could have scored 3 in the final 10 minutes.

How do we sort it out? We need defenders who are solid under the high ball and positionally astute. Only Lenihan I would say is comfortable under a high ball, and his positioning is weak. Williams is positionally okay but weak in the air. Nyambe I don't think can really be a dominant aerial player. Tosin maybe, but looks more comfortable with the ball to feet.

 

 

Edited November 3, 2019 by joey_big_nose

[Stuart]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Well you don't what he was changing. It might have took Williams off and move Downing to left back. 

Yeah, Evans on Downing to full back is a possibility.

So you agree he was looking to protect that the 0-0.

We got there in the end.  

[Rogerb]

18 minutes ago, Ossydave said:

We need an experienced keeper and TM himself alluded to that yet failed to deliver. I do however think that with a settled backline Walton will cut out mistakes too. Look at most the keepers in this league and they drop the odd clanger. Butland has made some absolutely horrific ones this season.

Wednesday fans bemoaning Westwood for his position for Tozins equaliser proving this point.

[Ossydave]

Just now, Rogerb said:

Wednesday fans bemoaning Westwood for his position for Tozins equaliser proving this point.

Exactly mate.

And tbf Westwood also made some quality saves.

I'd hate to be a keeper tbh!

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Stuart said:

Yeah, Evans on Downing to full back is a possibility.

So you agree he was looking to protect that the 0-0.

We got there in the end.  

well no I don't agree it was protect the 0-0 at all. Putting Downing to left back would maybe make us attacking more. who knows. 

What I do know is we won. that's all that matter. 

[Stuart]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

well no I don't agree it was protect the 0-0 at all. Putting Downing to left back would maybe make us attacking more. who knows. 

What I do know is we won. that's all that matter. 

Going to a back four at 0-0 to make us more attacking. Not sure how that works. Not sure either what you base your evidence of Mowbray doing something like that.

I genuinely think that if he had lost yesterday then there would have been consequences. #bottlegate

That moment (bringing Buckley on) that you see as so positive and successful needs to be a turning point in Mowbray’s approach. Because in my view it won’t and in fact may well have just relegated us due to the extension of goodwill towards him and the additional games he will now get. Starting with a freebie next Saturday and then a home game against Barnsley.

Let’s hope you are right and I’m wrong. If Mowbray could hark back to his West Brom days for a bit of inspiration then it could be just the tonic.

Edited November 3, 2019 by Stuart

[simongarnerisgod]

buckley imo is to lightweight,you`ve got to be really special to be that small and make it,however i hope he gets his chance in the 1st team,you never know until you try them out for 9 or 10 games,phil jones is one case,he was`nt thought to be 1st team material,came in and shone

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, Stuart said:

Going to a back four at 0-0 to make us more attacking. Not sure how that works. 

We played back 4 all game Stuart. 

We started 4-1-4-1 then Mowbray changed it 4-2-3-1 formation around 32 mins into the game

2 minutes ago, Stuart said:

That moment (bringing Buckley on) that you see as so positive and successful needs to be a turning point in Mowbray’s approach. 

I agree if you point is turning more to youth. I have mention Rankin Costello playing more of a part as well as Buckley. 

[Ossydave]

Just now, simongarnerisgod said:

buckley imo is to lightweight,you`ve got to be really special to be that small and make it,however i hope he gets his chance in the 1st team,you never know until you try them out for 9 or 10 games,phil jones is one case,he was`nt thought to be 1st team material,came in and shone

Bulking up is probably the easiest problem to fix in a player, strength can easily be gained. All depends on the role you play though really, not as important in the Buckley position. 

[Stuart]

19 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We played back 4 all game Stuart. 

We started 4-1-4-1 then Mowbray changed it 4-2-3-1 formation around 32 mins into the game

I agree if you point is turning more to youth. I have mention Rankin Costello playing more of a part as well as Buckley. 

Without the ball we went to a kind of four with Bennett dropping in. With the ball we went to three with Downing and Bennett higher up the pitch. When Holtby went off Downing went into the centre. It’s no wonder we have no consistency. Too many clever complicated permutations.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Stuart said:

Without the ball we went to a kind of four with Bennett dropping in. With the ball we went to three with Downing and Bennett higher up the pitch. When Holtby went off Downing went into the centre. It’s no wonder we have no consistency. Too many clever complicated permutations.

I will have to disagree Stuart. Looked like 4-1-4-1 formation. Same formation as Preston away 

[roversfan99]

10 hours ago, USABlue said:

Read that Tosin was great going forwards and he scored.  What's the odds on Mowbary dropping him a la Travis, Holtby.  His hand is a bit forced so perhaps he wont but ToMo don't much care for that adventurous goal scoring and moving forwards stuff.  Sideways and back is the only way.

Whilst I agree with the notion that Mowbray is overly conservative at times, that he has favourites who play undeservedly and those who dont get the chances they deserve etc, again some of these individual cases are myths. Travis got into the team, and we all thought that as soon as Smallwoods suspension had ended, he would return to the bench. Since, Travis has been a regular and Smallwood cannot get into the squad. Holtby took longer than I'd like to be given his first start, but since hes had it, he has since been injured and as soon as he has got back to fitness, he started again. And Adarabioyo was very good yesterday, but up until then he has looked quite flimsy IMO, would like to see him next to Lenihan with Williams and Nyambe at full back.

5 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Jonty was brought in to facilitate that pathway whilst Downing and Johnson were bought with a view to being here a year or two, max. Smallwood (as I said in the summer) is history and Evans will follow.

I fully expect Bucko to be starting regularly by Christmas. JRC and Butterworth to be integrated ready for next season. Chapman is more to do with him sorting himself out.

Bennett, Evans, Johnson, Downing will be squeezed out by the end of this season. That’s my prediction.

No way will Bennett ever be squeezed out under Mowbray, he cannot bear to leave him out for one single game regardless of performance and regardless of what position he has to squeeze him into, he is and will forever be first name on the team sheet.

[roversfan99]

5 hours ago, Stuart said:

Nope. He was wrong yesterday and you are wrong today. He wasn’t “warming up” when they scored as you keep imagining (of his own volition no less!). He was stood in his match kit with the coaches being given his instructions about to come on. When they scored he put a grey bib on over his kit and warmed up while Mowbray scratched his head a bit - after chucking his bottle on the pitch (that Evans retrieved after play continued).

His subs before that...

He was due to bring Graham on. This was almost certainly to withdraw Holtby who, in Mowbray’s eyes, still isn’t ready for the Championship.

Gallagher was then injured - although allowed to try to hobble on for a few minutes, likely making it worse - so instead he made it like for like using Graham.

Next minute he’s bringing off Holtby for Rothwell. Getting Holtby off was more of a priority than who came on.

Even if I’m wrong with that assessment, these are still like for like changes in the 60-oddth minutes, not going out to win the game.

His game plan after the hour mark was to set up to go for the point, despite it being an open game and Wednesday there for the taking. In the 80th minute it was time to shut up shop. How do I know this? Well, from the many times Mowbray has tried the same in the past. That’s when we aren’t already losing. Ironically, given the (sadly poorly observed) remembrance day tributes yesterday, some have already forgotten the oft quoted idiom from Churchill (1948): those who fail to learn from the past are doomed to repeat it. Without wishing any disrespect to the gravity of its meaning, that certainly applies to Mowbray and could well apply to many of our fans.

Even in his post-match interview Mowbray was babbling on about how this wasn’t “his” team, it is “the players’ team” and they all need to battle “for their mates”. He knows himself that he can’t take the credit.

You stick with Mowbray though. You can enjoy the odd 0-0 draw here and there against “the big boys of the division” (to paraphrase Mowbray) instead of what happened yesterday.

It’s such a shame that Mowbray is going to be let off the hook again but it was only ever going to take one win for some folk.

The thing is, youve gone out of your way to discredit the manager on the rare recent example when he actually deserves a bit of praise.

Even @Paul Mani who you are responded too has said in the post you are quoting that he doesnt think that Mowbray is the man to take us forward. I even managed to get out of @chaddyrovers that his opinion of wanting the manager replaced from last week hasnt changed on the back of one win. I have been very critical of Mowbray myself.

What sub Mowbray was initially planning on making is totally irrelevant. No one is saying that bringing on Buckley proves that he has learnt or that he is the man to take us forward, or that he is going to be "let off the hook again." When I saw the sub being made, Buckley who has always looked a little out of place playing Championship football for Downing, I was a bit underwhelmed by it. But ultimately, the sub he did make yesterday did work and did help to get us the win. Do I think that this sub is the bringing of a new dawn? No I certainly do not. Has it changed by mindset on Mowbrays ability to take us where we want to go? No. But is it fair to discredit successful decisions based on decisions he perhaps would have made had a different situation arisen, ie had goals happened or not happened? Definitely not.

[Alejandro Tapia]

Yeeeeeees!!! So good to see all the Rovers happy and saying I told you...even to the blody moaners...it was a very good match a veey tight 1 half but i think that we played better than blody owls the whole complete second half...the bad things that this match left us the Gallagher injury...walton still showing that he's good but not enough not yet next campaing maybe we should to BUY a little older and more experimented goaly...and the poor defense level yesterday Wednesday has so little chances and even like that we had the constant fear to finish losing the game again....
The good things we won we show our true level (2 half) we showed that we can defeat a top 5 and I think yesterday it was a proof that we can relly on our yong players!!!

#ImRoversTillIDie 

#COYBBR 

#TheMexicanRover 

[lraC]

Hola amigo. Estamos muy feliz hoy?

[MCMC1875]

What was on that bit of paper?

[Stuart]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

The thing is, youve gone out of your way to discredit the manager on the rare recent example when he actually deserves a bit of praise.

Even @Paul Mani who you are responded too has said in the post you are quoting that he doesnt think that Mowbray is the man to take us forward. I even managed to get out of @chaddyrovers that his opinion of wanting the manager replaced from last week hasnt changed on the back of one win. I have been very critical of Mowbray myself.

What sub Mowbray was initially planning on making is totally irrelevant. No one is saying that bringing on Buckley proves that he has learnt or that he is the man to take us forward, or that he is going to be "let off the hook again." When I saw the sub being made, Buckley who has always looked a little out of place playing Championship football for Downing, I was a bit underwhelmed by it. But ultimately, the sub he did make yesterday did work and did help to get us the win. Do I think that this sub is the bringing of a new dawn? No I certainly do not. Has it changed by mindset on Mowbrays ability to take us where we want to go? No. But is it fair to discredit successful decisions based on decisions he perhaps would have made had a different situation arisen, ie had goals happened or not happened? Definitely not.

It mattered absolutely.

At 0-0 Mowbray was aiming for a 0-0. That isn’t good enough.

It really is that simple.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Travis has been a regular and Smallwood cannot get into the squad. Holtby took longer than I'd like to be given his first start, but since hes had it, he has since been injured and as soon as he has got back to fitness, he started again. And Adarabioyo was very good yesterday, but up until then he has looked quite flimsy IMO, would like to see him next to Lenihan with Williams and Nyambe at full back.

Travis is a must in this side. He was good yesterday.

I wonder if Tosin Adarabioyo is now fully fit and that's why we see the best of him. I like Nyambe at centre cos of pace and strength he got. awareness at times is lacking but something I think he can work on. 

Adarabioyo and Lenihan at a pairing come the answer. Still need a left back in January for me. I also wonder if we will sign Cunningham permanent aswell

59 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I even managed to get out of @chaddyrovers that his opinion of wanting the manager replaced from last week hasnt changed on the back of one win.

I don't see why you had to get it that from me after yesterday win. Its was so great win and I enjoyed winning in the last minutes. Great feeling even now. 

But one win doesn't excuse Mowbray was to blame for a poor summer transfer window and not buying the experience keeper and centre back leader we need. We were discussing possible replacements for him before the game and at half time as a group of people/friends cos some people feel the same as me and others on here. We suggested names like Gareth Ainsworth, Nigel Pearson, Lee Bowyer, Aitor Karanka. 

Edited November 3, 2019 by chaddyrovers

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Stuart said:

It mattered absolutely.

At 0-0 Mowbray was aiming for a 0-0. That isn’t good enough.

It really is that simple.

You don't half sound miserable after winning yesterday? 

it doesn't matter. 

Winning matters not a sub that never happened at all

[joey_big_nose]

7 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

What was on that bit of paper?

"You smash in a goal Tosin, then I'll do the same"

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, Stuart said:

It mattered absolutely.

At 0-0 Mowbray was aiming for a 0-0. That isn’t good enough.

It really is that simple.

Do you give any credit to Mowbray for, regardless of what subs he would have made had the score stayed goalless, bringing on the man who got the winner?