Wigan Athletic (H) - Monday Night Football (urgh..)

[rigger]

5 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I was so bored with the football, I was considering not renewing my season ticket. 

Effective, yes, but not entertaining at all. 

I was pissed off with going to away games and getting slaughtered 

[Amo]

6 hours ago, Blue n whites said:

Yes I know it was dire. But it was top ten guaranteed dire. 

Ehhhh, not sure it was top ten “guaranteed”. We were incredibly jammy that Dunn managed to stay injury-free at the backend of that season.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

13 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Nobody expected us to get rid of Allardyce and appoint Kean.

Removing Allardyce wasn't the problem - the football was dire. 

You're right of course. The standard of football improved massively under Keanochio.

[47er]

12 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

we simply don't have the players in attack to consistently put teams to the sword. Rothwell, Gallagher, Brereton and Armstrong aren't wide players, but are constantly asked to 'do a job' out there.

 

I"ll leave Rothwell out of it because he's not a central striker. The other 3 are meant to be, but even if they were played in that position I don't believe they would score enough goals for us. They are not goal-scorers. Neither is Graham.

What a mess.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

12 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

With this unbeaten run we're kind of where I expect us to finish with this squad.

We simply don't have the players in attack to consistently put teams to the sword. Rothwell, Gallagher, Brereton and Armstrong aren't wide players, but are constantly asked to 'do a job' out there.

I think we found the solution against Bristol Rovers - 4-4-2 with Holtby and Rothwell playing as L/RM rather than as AMR/L, supporting the two strikers. 

Mowbray seems tied to his current formation, however, so bar some stunning signings in January we'll continue to meander along in midtable. 

If you're going to play 4-4-2 at least one of the wide players has got to be a grafter that gets into the game on their own accord. You can have a mercurial crowd pleaser on one wing but the other winger has got to make his presence felt much more often on attack and defence. What we have at the moment is two players - Armstrong and Rothwell - that flicker in and out of the game and rely on other players giving them the ball.

[MarkBRFC]

Only negative for Sam with me was that you could probably write off over half of the away games before a ball was kicked. He still won the important ones though, wins over Fulham and Hull spring to mind in his first season, Bolton & Burnley the year after.

Our home record was superb though, near enough averaging 20k home fans every week, and more importantly being a horrible place for the "big 4" as it was then to come.

Give me that era over what we have had over the last 9 years any day.

[Athlete]

22 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I don't believe this favourites tag bollocks. Wigan shouldn't be bottom of the league based on last night performance. Games are won on the pitch not on a paper before games. Certain fans expect these types of games as walk over and they never are. People never learn. 

 

At this stage of the season chadster the table doesn't lie wigan are bottom three for a reason they are poorjust look at their stats.. 

We aren't top six cos we haven't been good enough for one reason or another 

[tomphil]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

Only negative for Sam with me was that you could probably write off over half of the away games before a ball was kicked. He still won the important ones though, wins over Fulham and Hull spring to mind in his first season, Bolton & Burnley the year after.

Our home record was superb though, near enough averaging 20k home fans every week, and more importantly being a horrible place for the "big 4" as it was then to come.

Give me that era over what we have had over the last 9 years any day.

I think as time went on if he'd had a bit of backing he would have added a bit of flair in wide areas and a good striker or two.  Similar to what he did at Bolton and we'd have had a fair team then all bit on rock solid foundations.

Anderson and Kean put paid to that though.

Totally agree on the away games though he killed the away support it was like games were thrown before we kicked off. He would only play one way though and it just didn't work much away from home.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

40 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

Our home record was superb though, near enough averaging 20k home fans every week, and more importantly being a horrible place for the "big 4" as it was then to come.

Give me that era over what we have had over the last 9 years any day.

Amen to that....you don't know what you had until it's gone.

[JBiz]

On 24/12/2019 at 14:15, DE. said:

It was obviously in context of failing to win and/or play well in similar circumstances this season (and similar types of performances going all the way back to League 1, eg. Bury at home which I believe was also on TV) - to be honest I didn't think it needed to be pointed out specifically, but hopefully now there is a bit more clarity. 

I appreciate you haven't been on here recently but I haven't done a 180 on Mowbray since we've started winning and began talking about him getting us promoted. I've stated multiple times that we've been here before under TM and the real test is how we react to poor results such as this one. If we beat Birmingham on boxing day then that will give me a little more optimism that things are changing and this result was a one off as opposed to restablishing the norm of going on a poor run of form after a string of good results. 

Also as a side note and not related to the above, the idea that Wigan "don't deserve" to be where they are is nonsense. You can say that after a handful of games, but not after 23. We're literally half way through the season. Wigan are down there because they've been poor for half a season - the table doesn't lie at this point. Doesn't mean they can't get out of it and are doomed, but they still deserve to be where they are at present.  

Firstly merry Christmas - I was in festive pint mode yesterday so thought I’d leave reading till today!

My summary of all that has transpired doesn’t include a final decision on what I feel is possible - hence why I’d disagree on the sweeping conclusion and comparison to Bowyer!

That said - it’s fairly impossible to ignore that our consistency revolves around the best players being available. Lenihan for example, our poor results over the previous 12 months generally involve losing Lenihan - someone who  invigorated our form upon returning this season and last.

If I’m taking anything from Monday - it’s our reaction to losing Tosin and Wigan performing probably better than we (fans and players included) expected. Is that indicative of our managers inability to improve the culture to promotion levels? Not for me. Not in isolation or grouping with recent performances - equally the unbeaten / winning streak doesn’t prove we are going enough to reach that.

In terms of Wigan being where they are - I’d say that team, Barnsley too - are capable of having good performances, and like probably 20 other teams between the top and bottom; also reliant on their best 11 being available.

Consistency is what championship winning teams have. I would suggest we are getting nearer to that level when we have ALL our best lads available. When a spanner hits the works, like many other teams at many levels - we struggle.

Is that a “cultural” aspect of our club? Perhaps, but the main issue I have with that summary; it takes years to improve not months or weeks. 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

On 24/12/2019 at 09:12, matt83 said:

Without exaggeration on the basis Tosin and Cunningham aren’t long term solutions I think we need an entire back 5 a proper striker to replace graham and now Dack. Impossible job I feel

Can't argue with much of that. There is a case for Lenihan and Nyambe but at least 3 defenders  required long term. 

Think Butterworth from the under 23s could do a job in the Dack role.

[USABlue]

On 23/12/2019 at 16:58, CharlesBronson said:

Happened right in front of me.. morsey did nothing.. he just went down..

Not true, looked to me like he helped with a nudge of his shoulder.

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Harry The Bass said:

Firstly merry Christmas - I was in festive pint mode yesterday so thought I’d leave reading till today!

My summary of all that has transpired doesn’t include a final decision on what I feel is possible - hence why I’d disagree on the sweeping conclusion and comparison to Bowyer!

That said - it’s fairly impossible to ignore that our consistency revolves around the best players being available. Lenihan for example, our poor results over the previous 12 months generally involve losing Lenihan - someone who  invigorated our form upon returning this season and last.

If I’m taking anything from Monday - it’s our reaction to losing Tosin and Wigan performing probably better than we (fans and players included) expected. Is that indicative of our managers inability to improve the culture to promotion levels? Not for me. Not in isolation or grouping with recent performances - equally the unbeaten / winning streak doesn’t prove we are going enough to reach that.

In terms of Wigan being where they are - I’d say that team, Barnsley too - are capable of having good performances, and like probably 20 other teams between the top and bottom; also reliant on their best 11 being available.

Consistency is what championship winning teams have. I would suggest we are getting nearer to that level when we have ALL our best lads available. When a spanner hits the works, like many other teams at many levels - we struggle.

Is that a “cultural” aspect of our club? Perhaps, but the main issue I have with that summary; it takes years to improve not months or weeks. 

As Mowbray quite rightly said last season we'd have found a way to lose that game. So the mentality and concentration is definitly improving a little.  Helped by weeding out the likes of Mulgrew who was prone to flagging late in games.

However we were also plagued again by no plan B because there was nothing on the wing/s to stretch Wigan and maybe come up something in terms of creating. Then we end up mumbo jumbo again strikers on the wings etc, that kind of thing can be improved overnight by sourcing/signing and actually playing the right players.

 

[47er]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

As Mowbray quite rightly said last season we'd have found a way to lose that game. So the mentality and concentration is definitly improving a little.  Helped by weeding out the likes of Mulgrew who was prone to flagging late in games.

However we were also plagued again by no plan B because there was nothing on the wing/s to stretch Wigan and maybe come up something in terms of creating. Then we end up mumbo jumbo again strikers on the wings etc, that kind of thing can be improved overnight by sourcing/signing and actually playing the right players.

 

In our league 1 season we would have brought Chapman on.

[simongarnerisgod]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

In our league 1 season we would have brought Chapman on.

harry chapman still learning to be serious about it,he`ll get it by the time he`s 30

[tomphil]

I'm beginning to think the Chapman signing was either just a favour to someone or out of the famous TM sympathy angle.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 23/12/2019 at 17:34, chaddyrovers said:

no it doesnt

Unfortunately it does chaddy. When we get near the play offs we mess it up.