Huddersfield Town 29.12.19

[Mashed Potatoes]

53 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

How many games in that season did we play well for more than 30 minutes ? You could count them on the fingers of one hand.

If you were not happy with a record breaking season I doubt you will ever be satisfied

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

 I don't need to be questioned on my support after 55 years plus of watching Rovers. I pick and choose my games now, and with the cost of watching the game a major expense on a limited budget I have to justify spending that sort of money. I would go to Forest if I felt the team was giving 100 per cent and the team was being managed properly, but neither is the case, and I won't waste money on a team that I consider isn't trying. I assume you will be watching the Forest game from your lofty view of the world.   

No I won't be watching the game - although like you I have been a supporter since the mid 1960s. Obviously you are entitled to decide for yourself how you spend your time and money. All managers can get things wrong - if we decided not to go to games when that was happening there would be an awful lot of fallow periods of support.

I have never believed that the players don't give 100 per cent. For every player who makes it to our sort of level there will have been hundreds who were having trials as schoolboys. How likely does it seem that the tiny percentage who make it are by nature inclined not to be trying their hardest ?

 

[K-Hod]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

If you were not happy with a record breaking season I doubt you will ever be satisfied

It’s not just that though, is it?

In league one, we could get away with playing well for part of a game, due to the quality of the opposition. The problem in a league higher is that we can’t get away with it, for the same reason. You’d think the manager would notice this...

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, K-Hod said:

It’s not just that though, is it?

In league one, we could get away with playing well for part of a game, due to the quality of the opposition. The problem in a league higher is that we can’t get away with it, for the same reason. You’d think the manager would notice this...

Last time I had a look at Mowbray's points per game return in this league the numbers were more or less identical to Bowyer and Lambert, which would suggest that there is not a huge amount between them although I think Bowyer had better players to work with - many of whom he had recruited - so probably should have done a better.

[RevidgeBlue]

20 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Last time I had a look at Mowbray's points per game return in this league the numbers were more or less identical to Bowyer and Lambert, which would suggest that there is not a huge amount between them although I think Bowyer had better players to work with - many of whom he had recruited - so probably should have done a better.

On the basis that Bowyer wasn't good enough and Lambert came with a huge reputation but flattered to receive, that should tell you all you need to know.

[Pedro]

3 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If we had those two playing for us they could play where ever they liked. Our two are much more limited players so they need to make the most of what skills they have. 

If we had those two, one would be at fullback the other would be getting up to speed on the grass or getting used to the way we play.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

36 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

If you were not happy with a record breaking season I doubt you will ever be satisfied

You should never ever be satisfied, especially when the team is only perfoming for half a game. Being satisfied with the team that won the Prem meant that the following season we ended up a poor seventh in the league. The start of a downward spiral. Do you think Fergie was satisfied every time they won the league ? The minute you decide you can stand still you are actually going backwards.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

You should never ever be satisfied, especially when the team is only perfoming for half a game. Being satisfied with the team that won the Prem meant that the following season we ended up a poor seventh in the league. The start of a downward spiral. Do you think Fergie was satisfied every time they won the league ? The minute you decide you can stand still you are actually going backwards.

I think you are comparing apples and oranges. I agree with you that no manager should stand still after success - but you and I are supporters not managers and I think we are entitled to feel satisfaction from time to time - if not what's the point of being a supporter ?

[lraC]

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Do you think this squad is a top 6 squad? Genuinely? Never! We have a couple of good players and a team which works as hard as they can. If we get into the top 6 then we will have overachieved.

That doesn’t absolve the manager. He’s had some money to spend and whilst he’s spent well on a few, his two major signings have so far fluffed their lines and he will live and die by that.

The points total absolutely does count though mate. Because that is the true measurement of any progress.

When I look at other teams in the division, who are likely to make the play offs, I begin to think in theory we should have a chance. Obviously only 4 will make it and if we assume that Leeds and WBA will take the top two spots, then 4 from Fulham, Brentford, Sheff Weds, Preston, Forest, Bristol City, Swansea and Cardiff, should take those spots. I have always thought that a team good enough to be promoted, is one that stands out and plays exciting football, but don't see that from most of these play off contenders. In theory, that should therefore mean we have a chance, yet in reality, we are going nowhere near. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

37 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

No I won't be watching the game - although like you I have been a supporter since the mid 1960s. Obviously you are entitled to decide for yourself how you spend your time and money. All managers can get things wrong - if we decided not to go to games when that was happening there would be an awful lot of fallow periods of support.

I have never believed that the players don't give 100 per cent. For every player who makes it to our sort of level there will have been hundreds who were having trials as schoolboys. How likely does it seem that the tiny percentage who make it are by nature inclined not to be trying their hardest ?

 

You're looking at things from a fans point of view. These guys are doing a job of work. They want to be doing that job for as long as they possibly can. One of the best midfield players I ever saw, Franz Beckenbauer, moved into the back four at a really early stage in his career. Do you think that was because he liked heading the ball ? He said himself it was to cut down on the amount of running he would have to do so he could play at the top level for longer.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

I think you are comparing apples and oranges. I agree with you that no manager should stand still after success - but you and I are supporters not managers and I think we are entitled to feel satisfaction from time to time - if not what's the point of being a supporter ?

I was doing cartwheels around the room when we won at Doncaster the season before last. That was great. Having said that the next day it was over and we needed to step up. Going off the level of performances that season I had doubts about Mowbray even then. We never out battled anybody that season, our superior levels of skill for 30-40 minutes got us through. That was never going to be enough in this league.

[Roverthechimp]

Just now, lraC said:

When I look at other teams in the division, who are likely to make the play offs, I begin to think in theory we should have a chance. Obviously only 4 will make it and if we assume that Leeds and WBA will take the top two spots, then 4 from Fulham, Brentford, Sheff Weds, Preston, Forest, Bristol City, Swansea and Cardiff, should take those spots. I have always thought that a team good enough to be promoted, is one that stands out and plays exciting football, but don't see that from most of these play off contenders. In theory, that should therefore mean we have a chance, yet in reality, we are going nowhere near. 

I would say that we are too weak physically - we don't win battles but we can outplay the opposition on occasion. Whenever i look at other teams i think "this lot look fitter and tougher than us" ?

[jim mk2]

10 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

No I won't be watching the game - although like you I have been a supporter since the mid 1960s. Obviously you are entitled to decide for yourself how you spend your time and money. All managers can get things wrong - if we decided not to go to games when that was happening there would be an awful lot of fallow periods of support.

I have never believed that the players don't give 100 per cent. For every player who makes it to our sort of level there will have been hundreds who were having trials as schoolboys. How likely does it seem that the tiny percentage who make it are by nature inclined not to be trying their hardest ?

 

 Support drops when managers fail or are unpopular. I happens at the majority of clubs and it's no different with Rovers now. Many are disillusioned - and with good reason. So they don't go. 

Having watched football for that long, I'm amazed at the statement in bold.  Some players do not give their all for many reasons (rift with the manager, contract disputes, etc). I think some players just can't be bothered in some games. Many players coast - and some do it throughout their careers knowing they can become millionaires just by being average and staying clear of injury. Do I think this Rovers side gives 100 per cent every game? No I do not. 

The comparison to schoolboys is irrelevant. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Roverthechimp said:

I would say that we are too weak physically - we don't win battles but we can outplay the opposition on occasion. Whenever i look at other teams i think "this lot look fitter and tougher than us" ?

It's like last week against the Pie Eaters. Are they a better team than us ? The league table would suggest not. Did they want it more than us ? In my eyes, definitely.

[lraC]

Just now, Roverthechimp said:

I would say that we are too weak physically - we don't win battles but we can outplay the opposition on occasion. Whenever i look at other teams i think "this lot look fitter and tougher than us" ?

I do agree, yet we more than matched Preston for a while in that game, beat Bristol City away, took a point at Swansea and beat both Sheffield Wednesday and Brentford at home. At least two of those sides will make the play offs though. 

[rigger]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

How many games in that season did we play well for more than 30 minutes ? You could count them on the fingers of one hand.

You could count them on the fingers of one foot 

[lraC]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

 Support drops when managers fail or are unpopular. I happens at the majority of clubs and it's no different with Rovers now. Many are disillusioned - and with good reason. So they don't go. 

Having watched football for that long, I'm amazed at the statement in bold.  Some players do not give their all for many reasons (rift with the manager, contract disputes, etc). I think some players just can't be bothered in some games. Many players coast - and some do it throughout their careers knowing they can become millionaires just by being average and staying clear of injury. Do I think this Rovers side gives 100 per cent every game? No I do not. 

The comparison to schoolboys is irrelevant. 

Players up and down the country fail to give 100% week in and week out. Three of ours that jump out from the not too distant past are Murphy, Best and Etuhu and I defy anyone to convince me that Shane Duffy was giving 100% to the Blackburn Rovers cause when we played Wigan and Cardiff away in our relegation season.

[Roverthechimp]

21 minutes ago, lraC said:

I do agree, yet we more than matched Preston for a while in that game, beat Bristol City away, took a point at Swansea and beat both Sheffield Wednesday and Brentford at home. At least two of those sides will make the play offs though. 

Actually the only time i have seen us "bully" the opposition was Bristol C - was it the hotel "bonding" that created a different mentality?? (Away from their respective comfort zones for a day or two) ?

[Stuart]

5 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

I wrote on here the day after Dacks injury that the season was over ....

The 2 performances since , prove to me the players and ,management know it , too...

Players are the sheep but when the shepherd gives up you know you are in trouble.

Let’s see what happens in January to see whether he has given up or not. But so close to the play-offs again with the window about to open it’s like last season all over again.

Such a tight league - we only need a couple of wins.

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Players are the sheep but when the shepherd gives up you know you are in trouble.

Let’s see what happens in January to see whether he has given up or not. But so close to the play-offs again with the window about to open it’s like last season all over again.

Such a tight league - we only need a couple of wins.

I was angry at last year's January window flop and the Brentford game and its injuries rubbed salt into the wound.

I don't know what to think at the moment. A really dreadful run, followed by some good results with the Bristol game the icing on the cake. Then a thoroughly dispiriting 3 games.

Now, I think we are being "softened up" for a repeat of last January, when the squad is a bit of a mess. putting it mildly.

Too much dead wood, soaking up wages. The forward line is impotent and we have little or no tempo. Far too easy to play against. We know about the defence and now we have lost our main goal scorer and creator.

I think it would take a helluva lot to make us into genuine contenders. Do I see the owners investing enough to make that difference? You know the answer to that!

 

 

Edited December 30, 2019 by Leonard Venkhater

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Last time I had a look at Mowbray's points per game return in this league the numbers were more or less identical to Bowyer and Lambert, which would suggest that there is not a huge amount between them although I think Bowyer had better players to work with - many of whom he had recruited - so probably should have done a better.

The Bowyer tenure was a significant wasted opportunity. What an experienced manager might have achieved with those resources!

[K-Hod]

I’ve got a bad feeling that this season’s January will mirror last season’s.

Being close to the play offs, not strengthening, going on a horrific run, etc.

Glad we’ve got our next home game against PNE though. Sure our lads have the fire in their bellies to finally beat them again.....
 

Come on lads, prove me wrong, please!!

Edited December 30, 2019 by K-Hod

[Tom]

5 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

Holtby is an enigma , not sure where he can play ..

Plenty of talent but appears to be of yesteryear !

In fairness we often said similar about Cairney here then he showed there is still a place for that sort of player 

[mick]

I’m afraid that I haven’t observed much “fire in their bellies”. The motivation was to move comfortably into the top six. Instead they languish mid table. If the players are good enough then the tactics again come under scrutiny. TM seems to lack the nous to adjust them and the leadership on the pitch is sadly lacking. Rovers lack that/those player(s) that frighten defenders. Opponents are not resisted and overwhelmed in a way that Rovers are. The players and manager seem content to “keep it close” far too often. It just isn’t enough. 

[DE.]

53 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

I’ve got a bad feeling that this season’s January will mirror last season’s.

Being close to the play offs, not strengthening, going on a horrific run, etc.

The main difference being last year we were actually on a pretty bad run at this point in time, conceding last minute goals left and right. There was a belief that we simply had to strengthen the team or we would potentially be facing a relegation battle. We then went on a four match win streak in January, coinciding with Travis' introduction to the team in place of Smallwood, and that seemed to convince Mowbray (who claimed at the time money was available) that we didn't need to bring in anybody. Obviously in hindsight that decision was foolish as we got injuries to central defenders, having let Paul Downing go, and proceeded to go on our worst run since Venky's darkened the doors of Ewood (9 losses out of 11). 

This season we've just finished our good run and look set to go on a bad one just as January comes into sight. 2 points out of 9 from teams significantly lower than us in the table, injuries biting hard and our 'playoff push' beginning to derail. Theoretically it's the perfect storm for the manager to go out and bring in some bodies to strengthen the team. This year however he's saying there's no money (where did last January's reported 10m go? Or the Raya money that was to my knowledge never reinvested?) and unless Buckley suddenly improves dramatically we don't have a Travis ready to step up and bring some new energy to the team. Instead we have Samuel, Chapman, Brereton and Davenport. 

Edited December 30, 2019 by DE.