Middlesbrough (A) - Match Thread

[Rogerb]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Why we need another centre back like Tosin in. 

Tosin for his age is a one off. To buy a centre half with his technical ability is out of our price range. To bring one in on loan would take some finding

[Gary C]

Could be a very challenging summer trying to bring in goalkeepers replacement for Tosin and bringing in general reinforcements.

[Paul Mani]

23 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

Tosin for his age is a one off. To buy a centre half with his technical ability is out of our price range. To bring one in on loan would take some finding

I think Tosin is a top player and will play at the very highest level once he’s fully matured. It was obvious from the first time we saw him play.

But I don’t think it’s so hard to find ball playing cb’s now. They’re very much in fashion. Interesting what our newly appointed Portugese head of European recruitment can find too. Can’t imagine Portugal not being awash with technical players in all positions. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Paul Mani

[Atko's Engine]

12 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

Tosin for his age is a one off. To buy a centre half with his technical ability is out of our price range. To bring one in on loan would take some finding

So we need to nurture them through from our own academy then, rather than be reliant on bringing them in from outside. There's been plenty said on here about us being better at bringing defenders through than midfielders or forwards, so I'm sure some focus is being placed on making those that do come through more confident ball players.

We're certainly capable, as proven in Jack O'Connell for example who inexplicably was allowed to slip through the net.

My understanding (from those who've been able to watch a lot of U23s & U18s matches) is that there's plenty of evidence of them playing progressive football out from the back that's been instilled by Johnson & is being continued by Barr & Sheron with some success.

Please correct me if I'm wrong those who watch Academy games, but that's my understanding. 

[The Axe]

10 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

That’ll be Tosin, who I don’t think moved at all throughout!

My thoughts too Tyrone although it was two midfielders not Adarabioyo. Actually if you look at the sequence I'm impressed by the improvement Mowbray and Venus have made to the defence. They played a near perfect off side trap, only Lenihan a bit out of sync but the other three moved in line and at the same speed, completely nullifying the most dangerous possibility the slipped through pass. This forced the guy to shoot and unless he hits a fantastic shot there is no danger and the defence has done its job. The shot was good but not world beating, the problem is that Walton just got a big hand to it. Good goalkeepers flick the wrist and divert it wide. Not to sure how much blame you can give Walton. I don't think it's in his skill set. To blame any of the defence is to me wrong. You can't play off side and still be expected to be goal side of your man. The laws of momentum were that Middlesbrough were moving forward and the defence was coming out. Therefore if the ball rebounds there is only one winner. Ironically the guy who had fallen into the trap was the one who profited.

[Pedro]

1 hour ago, Ossydave said:

All these striking options yet we've scored like 13 more goals than them this season...

I'm not talking about amounts of goals we have scored though.  I am talking options - even a plan B. Yesterday, we couldn't get Armstrong in the game and didn't really trouble Boro. Whereas, they had Assombalonga, Gestede and Nmecha - all strong, very direct physical players who, although wasteful, caused us headache after headache. I just wish we had one of those options. Instead we have Graham who is increasingly ineffective, Brereton who is consistently ineffective, Samuel consistently injured and apparently now, Bennett?!

[tomphil]

We've been crying out for a large target man / battering ram type since league 1, imo we'd have won that lge with one in the ranks. 

Then again it has to be something a bit better than Chris Brown but other clubs seem to dig them up. 

[Pedro]

Just now, tomphil said:

We've been crying out for a large target man / battering ram type since league 1, imo we'd have won that lge with one in the ranks. 

Then again it has to be something a bit better than Chris Brown but other clubs seem to dig them up. 

I suppose Gestede was the last one we had. You'd think Gallagher would offer those qualities but he seems a much braver and controlled header of the ball in our own box, rather than the opposition's. He headed a ball out to the halfway line yesterday - then around that time, in the opposite box, turned and tried to use the back/side of his head to knock it across goal from a decent position - instead of using his forehead and a chance to head down at goal.  He really does lack that strikers instinct and I feel the more he plays in that muddled role, the less likely he'll develop those striking instincts.

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, Pedro said:

I suppose Gestede was the last one we had. You'd think Gallagher would offer those qualities but he seems a much braver and controlled header of the ball in our own box, rather than the opposition's. He headed a ball out to the halfway line yesterday - then around that time, in the opposite box, turned and tried to use the back/side of his head to knock it across goal from a decent position - instead of using his forehead and a chance to head down at goal.  He really does lack that strikers instinct and I feel the more he plays in that muddled role, the less likely he'll develop those striking instincts.

Spot on he needs games in his position and if he's out wide move him centre later on in similar fashion.  Thing is though he/we need crosses, good ones and lots of them.  Even Rudy needs the ball constantly banging in there to make anything count.  Someone like Gally might develop a 1 in 10 ratio which is probably about average but they need creating.

A big lump would be handy though seeing as the policy at Ewood seems to be have a pool of forwards who are all a bit different rather than all round strikers.

[SkipDonoghue]

12 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Definitely should be on the bench over the likes of Samuel and Brereton and considered wide before Gallagher and Bennett. Would be between the 2 for that spot.

Obviously Rankin Costello deserves perhaps more leeway as it was his full debut but I was a little underwhelmed, he plugged away but didnt offer anything from an attacking sense. As you say though, deserves another go.

I thought JRC did excellently, made more tackles than any other Rovers player the game didn't allow for him to get forward as much as he would have liked and added to this the head injury I think what he did pretty remarkable 

 

[Roverthechimp]

44 minutes ago, The Axe said:

My thoughts too Tyrone although it was two midfielders not Adarabioyo. Actually if you look at the sequence I'm impressed by the improvement Mowbray and Venus have made to the defence. They played a near perfect off side trap, only Lenihan a bit out of sync but the other three moved in line and at the same speed, completely nullifying the most dangerous possibility the slipped through pass. This forced the guy to shoot and unless he hits a fantastic shot there is no danger and the defence has done its job. The shot was good but not world beating, the problem is that Walton just got a big hand to it. Good goalkeepers flick the wrist and divert it wide. Not to sure how much blame you can give Walton. I don't think it's in his skill set. To blame any of the defence is to me wrong. You can't play off side and still be expected to be goal side of your man. The laws of momentum were that Middlesbrough were moving forward and the defence was coming out. Therefore if the ball rebounds there is only one winner. Ironically the guy who had fallen into the trap was the one who profited.

Fair analysis having seen it now. Would add in Walton's defence that it was bouncing making it more difficult to judge.

One of them for me but i think those criticising the keeper are extremely harsh in this instance.

[Paul Mani]

10 minutes ago, Roverthechimp said:

Fair analysis having seen it now. Would add in Walton's defence that it was bouncing making it more difficult to judge.

One of them for me but i think those criticising the keeper are extremely harsh in this instance.

Walton has made one or two mistakes this season. The rest of the time he’s been solid to good. Stats are decent too...clean sheets etc.

[Atko's Engine]

59 minutes ago, Pedro said:

I'm not talking about amounts of goals we have scored though.  I am talking options - even a plan B. Yesterday, we couldn't get Armstrong in the game and didn't really trouble Boro. Whereas, they had Assombalonga, Gestede and Nmecha - all strong, very direct physical players who, although wasteful, caused us headache after headache. I just wish we had one of those options. Instead we have Graham who is increasingly ineffective, Brereton who is consistently ineffective, Samuel consistently injured and apparently now, Bennett?!

Is this not a "grass is always greener" perspective though? There's no point having striking options if those options don't score when called upon. We have options & they get slated when they miss "easy" chances,  like Gallagher in midweek.  If he, Brereton or Samuel had missed any of Boro's chances late on yesterday they'd have been berated on here.

It's not as black & white as fans would like. We would have had to shell out big money on Assombalonga, Gestede or Nmecha, yet if we had I don't think we'd be any better off than with what we have. As Ossydave pointed out, we've scored 13 more goals than them across the season, some of which have been scored by an attacking player who Boro felt was surplus to requirements 12 months ago and has been one of our players of the season.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Pedro said:

I'm not talking about amounts of goals we have scored though.  I am talking options - even a plan B. Yesterday, we couldn't get Armstrong in the game and didn't really trouble Boro. Whereas, they had Assombalonga, Gestede and Nmecha - all strong, very direct physical players who, although wasteful, caused us headache after headache. I just wish we had one of those options. Instead we have Graham who is increasingly ineffective, Brereton who is consistently ineffective, Samuel consistently injured and apparently now, Bennett?!

Nmecha is awful player. 

I agree we need another striker in the summer where I think Graham will leave and Samuel is out of contract. 

Bennett? 

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

We've been crying out for a large target man / battering ram type since league 1, imo we'd have won that lge with one in the ranks. 

Then again it has to be something a bit better than Chris Brown but other clubs seem to dig them up. 

We aren't currently playing that way And I suspect we wont now. 

36 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

I thought JRC did excellently, made more tackles than any other Rovers player the game didn't allow for him to get forward as much as he would have liked and added to this the head injury I think what he did pretty remarkable 

 

Rankin Costello was excellent. Got a nasty head injury but still didn't stop him playing well. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[Paul Mani]

48 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

I thought JRC did excellently, made more tackles than any other Rovers player the game didn't allow for him to get forward as much as he would have liked and added to this the head injury I think what he did pretty remarkable 

 

I think the fact that he concentrated on his defensive work will help keep him in the team. 

[LDRover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Nmecha is awful player. 

I agree we need another striker in the summer where I think Graham will leave and Samuel is out of contract. 

Bennett? 

We aren't currently playing that way And I suspect we wont now. 

Rankin Costello was excellent. Got a nasty head injury but still didn't stop him playing well. 

Hang on a minute, only a couple of hours ago you posted on here that we needed a target man!!

[Husky]

Can anyone remember what formation we were playing at the end? And where did Nyambe end up playing as he certainly wasn't at right back when we were getting pummelled for the last 20mins.

[Pedro]

2 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

Is this not a "grass is always greener" perspective though? There's no point having striking options if those options don't score when called upon. We have options & they get slated when they miss "easy" chances,  like Gallagher in midweek.  If he, Brereton or Samuel had missed any of Boro's chances late on yesterday they'd have been berated on here.

It's not as black & white as fans would like. We would have had to shell out big money on Assombalonga, Gestede or Nmecha, yet if we had I don't think we'd be any better off than with what we have. As Ossydave pointed out, we've scored 13 more goals than them across the season, some of which have been scored by an attacking player who Boro felt was surplus to requirements 12 months ago and has been one of our players of the season.

No not grass is greener.  We need a range of options to get to (at least) the playoffs.  We have wasted a chunk of our budget on a kid who never gets played and doesn't look good enough and a very big lad who should be approaching his prime, but is a first-choice makeshift winger.  It's just terrible recruitment.

[USABlue]

20 hours ago, philipl said:

Unbelievable Walton save- first worldy I can think of him pulling off.

Saved us a point.

We were more than decent first half but those injury breaks seemed to affect our rhythm more than Boro's.

In the end got to be thankful for bad misses by Gestede and Assombolonga.

Those 6 points to 6th are going to take a lot of overhauling especially if Holtby is out for any time. Lenihan got a late booking so he must be close to a suspension.

Too often Nyambe had the chance to rip forward but checked back- horrible feeling it was Mowbray's orders despite the Boro' back 3 formation making Nyambe running past the midfield the obvious thing to do.

Noticed that and thought exactly the same, a number of times he had so much space.  The Nyambe of the last couple weeks would have signed into that space.  Looked pretty obvious he had orders not to go too far forwards.

[USABlue]

17 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I've been complaining for ages that none of the central midfield players ever run beyond the strikers. That goal was a classic example of what can happen when one of them does. In Mowbray's interview tonight he more or less admitted he's been holding Travis back because neither of the other two in midfield have a tackle in them and somebody has to put a foot in  in the midfield. It seems a waste to me. Having said that Holtby should be making those runs also..

Been saying that for weeks, no months.  Rather than hold him back should he not address the other weaknesses.  Seems stupid to me.

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Walton has made one or two mistakes this season. The rest of the time he’s been solid to good. Stats are decent too...clean sheets etc.

One or two? He has made far more mistakes than that, the one yesterday brings him closer to double figures I would suggest. Brilliant save at the end though.

4 hours ago, SkipDonoghue said:

I thought JRC did excellently, made more tackles than any other Rovers player the game didn't allow for him to get forward as much as he would have liked and added to this the head injury I think what he did pretty remarkable 

 

He plugged away and you cant fault his determination but he didnt do anything from an attacking persepctive, and as a winger who offers nothing going forward, I think its difficult to judge such a performance as anything above ok, certainly not remarkable or excellent.

He seems physically capable, but I would like to see something from an attacking perspective next time he plays.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

He plugged away and you cant fault his determination but he didnt do anything from an attacking persepctive, and as a winger who offers nothing going forward, I think its difficult to judge such a performance as anything above ok, certainly not remarkable or excellent.

He seems physically capable, but I would like to see something from an attacking perspective next time he plays.

He shows plenty of effort and determination. Did his job defensively and after his head injury didn't effect him. 

He was excellent for his 1st league start for the club. 

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

He shows plenty of effort and determination. Did his job defensively and after his head injury didn't effect him. 

He was excellent for his 1st league start for the club. 

Effort and determination is a minimum requirement, Bennett would give us that and he isnt good enough.

He wasnt excellent as a winger, I was happy with his application and think he seems physically more robust than say Buckley but would expect something going forward if he is to become a regular. He obviously gets a little more leeway being on his first start in professional football but I am not going to just baselessly say that he was "excellent" although I dont think any of our team was yesterday. He didnt let anyone down though.

The chance is there for him to cement a place, the alternatives of Gallagher and Bennett have repeatedly proven to be not up to the task so I'd be happy to see him and Chapman get plenty of game time, especially in Rothwells absence.

[stinny1]

Yes but keeper pushed  the ball too there player

 

[chaddyrovers]

47 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Effort and determination is a minimum requirement, Bennett would give us that and he isnt good enough.

He wasnt excellent as a winger, I was happy with his application and think he seems physically more robust than say Buckley but would expect something going forward if he is to become a regular. He obviously gets a little more leeway being on his first start in professional football but I am not going to just baselessly say that he was "excellent" although I dont think any of our team was yesterday. He didnt let anyone down though.

The chance is there for him to cement a place, the alternatives of Gallagher and Bennett have repeatedly proven to be not up to the task so I'd be happy to see him and Chapman get plenty of game time, especially in Rothwells absence.

Blimey, give him a chance before judging him too critical. It was his 1st start in the league. I really do despair

I enjoyed his performance yesterday. I was pleased he got his chance cos his performances for under 23's have been excellent. 

Travis was excellent. He never stopped yesterday. Took his goal so well yesteday