Home V Fulham 08/02/2020

[JHRover]

31 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Almost all of us if we could see a clear plan that was in progress and working. We are three years into Tony’s and we have to start again in July 

This is exactly the issue. If I could see a really good squad being progressively assembled with a couple of steps forward each window then I'd be more comfortable with the 'work in progress' theory.

But I look at the current state of our squad and our transfer dealings and have little faith in us doing the necessary.

I look at this summer with trepidation. I see a major overhaul required with a number of key positions needing attention just to replace those we know are unlikely to be here next year.

We've already got the excuses lined up with Ffp concerns, and a manager/structure that struggles to get business done.

All well and good talking about developing youngsters but that carries immense risk of backfiring. I'd rather not gamble with our League status to do it.

Unless we radically change our approach I foresee difficulties in the summer and beyond.

Will the manager have any idea as to his budget or otherwise at this stage? Unlikely. Which makes me wonder how much of a plan there can be.

[Pedro]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Oh I agree. My point was to rebut the idea that we are somehow a plucky Third division club done good, due to one season down there in 8 with a big budget.

I was only joking. I know what you mean - I was taking the Micky out of those who like to pretend we are a League One club.

 

What would Mashed Taters say about Leicester? Wolves? Sheffield Utd? Southampton? Huddersfield? etc. Who were also down in League One but didn't hang about simply feeling grateful to be damp squibs or slow burners in the Championship.

[Ewood Ace]

A dreadful performance where it seemed like our only hope was to bore Fulham into accepting a 0-0 but once they scored that was game over, no matter how may 'strikers' we put on.

For all the waxing lyrical I keep hearing about Tosin and his passing, I'm afraid he is not much of a defender, pathetic yesterday for the goal to let Mitrovic turn and shot.

I thought Travis was poor and seemed to be playing within himself. Didn't like his lack of effort after giving the ball away for the goal, instead of chasing back he just stood with his hands on his head.

As for Johnson just over a month ago he was dominating the game against a good Bristol City side from start to finish but since then he was been hopeless. Quite frankly he looks washed up.

It took just 2 games for Rankin-Costello to be moved into another position. I though that much like Buckley he looked a boy in a man's game. Lad's like Buckley and Rankin-Costello should have been out playing men's football for the last 12-18 months rather than going straight from under 23's football straight into the Championship.

Gallagher is getting worse with each second he plays he is not and never will be a winger. I honestly cannot understand why Mowbray keeps playing him there. The problem is he isn't much of a striker either and certainly not a £5 Million one.

Of all the strikers who got on the pitch yesterday I though Graham looked most likely to make something happen. As for Brereton and Samuel you'd have thought they would have been desperate to make an impact but neither looked like they could be bothered.

As for the manager it's been clear for 15 months now that he has taken us as far as he can. Sadly though I think he could lose every game between now and the end of the season and as long as we stayed up (which we probably would) then he would still be in a job as the injuries excuse is going to be used time and time again between now and the end of the season. It's incredible that he repeated the same mistakes of last January again this January.

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 minute ago, Pedro said:

I was only joking. I know what you mean - I was taking the Micky out of those who like to pretend we are a League One club.

 

What would Mashed Taters say about Leicester? Wolves? Sheffield Utd? Southampton? Huddersfield? etc. Who were also down in League One but didn't hang about simply feeling grateful to be damp squibs or slow burners in the Championship.

I'm flattered that you seem to have an obsession as to what I think.

I've never pretended that we are a League One club - even those with the most sketchy knowledge of the club's history would know that not to be true.It took 5 years for Wolves to get back in to the Premier League. The other clubs are the exceptions.

[tomphil]

9 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Oh I agree. My point was to rebut the idea that we are somehow a plucky Third division club done good, due to one season down there in 8 with a big budget.

It's back to the old have the cake and eat it with some of these lot that's why it's not worth arguing really.  Mention the lge 1 budget and say we should have expected promotion and maybe win the league it's no no no it doesn't work like that.

Fast forward a year or 2 and it's ALL about the budget dictating where we should be ?

 

[Doug]

1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

A dreadful performance where it seemed like our only hope was to bore Fulham into accepting a 0-0 but once they scored that was game over, no matter how may 'strikers' we put on.

For all the waxing lyrical I keep hearing about Tosin and his passing, I'm afraid he is not much of a defender, pathetic yesterday for the goal to let Mitrovic turn and shot.

I thought Travis was poor and seemed to be playing within himself. Didn't like his lack of effort after giving the ball away for the goal, instead of chasing back he just stood with his hands on his head.

As for Johnson just over a month ago he was dominating the game against a good Bristol City side from start to finish but since then he was been hopeless. Quite frankly he looks washed up.

It took just 2 games for Rankin-Costello to be moved into another position. I though that much like Buckley he looked a boy in a man's game. Lad's like Buckley and Rankin-Costello should have been out playing men's football for the last 12-18 months rather than going straight from under 23's football straight into the Championship.

Gallagher is getting worse with each second he plays he is not and never will be a winger. I honestly cannot understand why Mowbray keeps playing him there. The problem is he isn't much of a striker either and certainly not a £5 Million one.

Of all the strikers who got on the pitch yesterday I though Graham looked most likely to make something happen. As for Brereton and Samuel you'd have thought they would have been desperate to make an impact but neither looked like they could be bothered.

As for the manager it's been clear for 15 months now that he has taken us as far as he can. Sadly though I think he could lose every game between now and the end of the season and as long as we stayed up (which we probably would) then he would still be in a job as the injuries excuse is going to be used time and time again between now and the end of the season. It's incredible that he repeated the same mistakes of last January again this January.

I agree with the vast majority of your post regarding the players particularly JRC and Buckley.

Our opinions differ on Travis, who IMO, was excellent, I believe we will be very lucky if he is still a Rovers player next season.

[Ewood Ace]

56 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Worth bearing in mind that Brentford are in their sixth season since promotion to the Championship. How many people on here would be that patient so as to wait until 2024 ?

And 6 years before that they finished 14th in league 2. That's what I call progress and we haven't seen any of that since the day Sam was sacked.

[Ewood Ace]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Right. Look at WBA, Leeds, Fulham and Forest budget? All bigger than ours and in top 6. Brentford model is unique and something I like and would like to see us. Preston are 6th at the minute but I.dont see them making playoffs. Bristol City were 6th before yesterday games. What their budget like? 

If budget's decided the table then we would have won League 1 at a canter and Sheffield United would still be in the Championship rather than 6th in the Premiership. 

[OldEwoodBlue]

Impossible to know from this angle.

Only thing to say with certainty is the players don't complain.

[Dolly blue]

Comments regarding who to select , who to drop , which formation to play ......pointless. 
Nothing will change whilst Mowbray and his band of overpaid, under skilled back room  staff continue to be employed at Ewood.

Its not about budgets...it’s about vision ( Wilder at Sheffield Utd ) 

Its about scouting ( Brentford )

Its about getting far more than he should out of a squad of very ordinary, low cost players ( Neil at Deepdale )

Our season is over ....and our future seasons are over if we continue with Mowbray and his dour, outdated, ineffective management style. 
Let’s say thanks to Tony ..but let’s move on ....gates will continue to fall, atmosphere will remain at rock bottom.

A new man can assess who is worth keeping, who is worth promoting from the academy ...and we can , maybe hit the ground running in August .There are “ new men “ out there ...

If we continue to “Tick along with Tony “......disaster....Im getting to the stage where wins and defeats leave me feeling the same emotion....little hope, little vision 

 

[Pedro]

7 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I'm flattered that you seem to have an obsession as to what I think.

I've never pretended that we are a League One club - even those with the most sketchy knowledge of the club's history would know that not to be true.It took 5 years for Wolves to get back in to the Premier League. The other clubs are the exceptions.

Maybe what you say should start backing your memories then.  You DO project us as a small team who should look up to teams with lesser budgets and poorer infrastructure - that's why I take exception to your comments.  Same goes for your suggestions that Mowbray is as good as it can possibly be.

 

Wolves didn't take 5 years to get from League One to the Premier League, it was four but I think the team I was thinking of was that massive club, Norwich - pretty sure they got back to back promotions.  My issue with your latest nugget was your snide remark that we lesser fans, who lack patience,  should wait until 2024 to be on a par with Brentford (who until recently were just an answer to the Bradley Walsh quiz question).

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, MarkBRFC said:

 

 

These were your original posts, forget what Mowbray says, you clearly say it was onside from the footage you had seen. When you were asked about it you said from the EFL show on Quest.

So I'm wondering, how could you tell from the one angle on quest that he was onside? It's inconclusive.

Also, I'm not saying it was definitely offside, I can't tell from the footage available, and I'm certainly not taking Mowbrays word for it.

Absolutely pointless argument. What does it say in today's paper ? Mine says Blackburn Rovers 0 - Fulham 1.

[Blue blood]

39 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

And 6 years before that they finished 14th in league 2. That's what I call progress and we haven't seen any of that since the day Sam was sacked.

 

36 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

If budget's decided the table then we would have won League 1 at a canter and Sheffield United would still be in the Championship rather than 6th in the Premiership. 

Now Ewood that's naughty highlighting the selective nature of their stats. The narrative is we are jolly lucky to have TM and his achievements of getting us midtable in the championship is greater than anything those blokes Klopp and Wilder are doing. We can only hope no-one recognises his managerial genius and takes him off our hands. Stop being so negative and support the team. 

 

[Tom]

34 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Impossible to know from this angle.

Only thing to say with certainty is the players don't complain.

Looks like it takes a touch or two on the edge of the box which is what @arbitro mentioned 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Chaffinch said:

We do not have a god-given right to win every match and yesterday proved that. We were beaten by the better side and yet for vast periods of the match we contained them and competed with them. Given our injury crisis and the quality in the Fulham side I was expecting the kind of game we witnessed. Luck was against us in terms of the dubious offside decision and every loose ball seemed to drop to Fulham but on balance, they deserved to win. Frankly, given our current situation I am happy that we are competing in every fixture, the lads are giving everything for the cause and our relatively comfortable mid-table position is not a massive negative by any stretch of the imagination. We are seeing youngsters like Travis and Nyambe developing into real talents, we have found a relatively settled and competent back 4 and we have that mix of experience and youth that bodes well for the future. Four games ago we won 5-0 at Hillsborough...another side whose fans no doubt are saying that they should be doing better, likewise Stoke and many others. This is the nature of the division. We are an average sized fish in a moderately big pond. Beat Hull on Tuesday and it's butter side up again 

Teams win " every loose ball " for a reason. Do you think Travis and Nyambe will be here this time next season ?  You must be seeing another back four to the one I'm seeing. It's entirely possible that none of them will be at Ewood next August.

[Colt Seavers]

1 hour ago, Rogerb said:

Thought this was a very passive performance up until the substitutions demonstrated by the total lack of any bookings for Rovers with the complete lack of getting in Fulham faces allowing them total freedom to play their passing game. Totally unacceptable for me.

My thoughts exactly. Travis started the game sticking closely to Cairney and having a couple of bites at him. One in particular from behind wound Cairney up and he complained to the ref. Travis wound his neck in a bit after that.

The canny Cairney had made a mental note of this however, and waited until late into the game before retaliating. He raked his studs down Travis' right Achilles which was a bit naughty. Travis looked like he might go off after that and I wouldn't be surprised if he misses Tuesday's game because of it.

 

 

[MarkBRFC]

22 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Absolutely pointless argument. What does it say in today's paper ? Mine says Blackburn Rovers 0 - Fulham 1.

Correct.

Although if we think like that there would be no point in discussing anything that happens in games after the final whistle goes!

Edited February 9, 2020 by MarkBRFC

[Adam C]

1 hour ago, The Mighty Chaffinch said:

We do not have a god-given right to win every match and yesterday proved that. We were beaten by the better side and yet for vast periods of the match we contained them and competed with them. Given our injury crisis and the quality in the Fulham side I was expecting the kind of game we witnessed. Luck was against us in terms of the dubious offside decision and every loose ball seemed to drop to Fulham but on balance, they deserved to win. Frankly, given our current situation I am happy that we are competing in every fixture, the lads are giving everything for the cause and our relatively comfortable mid-table position is not a massive negative by any stretch of the imagination. We are seeing youngsters like Travis and Nyambe developing into real talents, we have found a relatively settled and competent back 4 and we have that mix of experience and youth that bodes well for the future. Four games ago we won 5-0 at Hillsborough...another side whose fans no doubt are saying that they should be doing better, likewise Stoke and many others. This is the nature of the division. We are an average sized fish in a moderately big pond. Beat Hull on Tuesday and it's butter side up again 

Well said. Onwards and upwards!

[Paul Mani]

2 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

The £12m on non players is conveniently forgotten about when we're talking budgets.

No it’s not. BUT the far diminished (on our part) and superior (for other team) wages do seem to be overlooked by many on here. £12m is a fairly moderate/good amount of outlay for the Championship. But our wage structure places us well in the bottom half. I wish we’d spent those fees on better players too, BUT people need to start thinking about the total budget when comparing us. 

[jim mk2]

1 hour ago, Dolly blue said:

Comments regarding who to select , who to drop , which formation to play ......pointless. 
Nothing will change whilst Mowbray and his band of overpaid, under skilled back room  staff continue to be employed at Ewood.

Its not about budgets...it’s about vision ( Wilder at Sheffield Utd ) 

Its about scouting ( Brentford )

Its about getting far more than he should out of a squad of very ordinary, low cost players ( Neil at Deepdale )

Our season is over ....and our future seasons are over if we continue with Mowbray and his dour, outdated, ineffective management style. 

 

 Yep, good post, sums it up nicely. 

[K-Hod]

4 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

No it’s not. BUT the far diminished (on our part) and superior (for other team) wages do seem to be overlooked by many on here. £12m is a fairly moderate/good amount of outlay for the Championship. But our wage structure places us well in the bottom half. I wish we’d spent those fees on better players too, BUT people need to start thinking about the total budget when comparing us. 

To be fair, as other teams have done, we could have spent less money on players that would have made more of an impact and given them more wages....

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

 

Now Ewood that's naughty highlighting the selective nature of their stats. The narrative is we are jolly lucky to have TM and his achievements of getting us midtable in the championship is greater than anything those blokes Klopp and Wilder are doing. We can only hope no-one recognises his managerial genius and takes him off our hands. Stop being so negative and support the team. 

 

Nope, the narrative (and history) suggests that budgets dictate league standing. My feeling is that Mowbray has been a very good manager so far for Rovers. He’s level headed, hardworking and well intentioned. He’s a good manager and works with a budget.

BUT the meeting confirmed to me that the club have no intention or Ffp ability to increase the budget high enough. Therefore, imo we 100% will need to punch above our weight to go up. That means the manager will have to develop a new, innovative method of finding those gems and then be able to integrate those players quickly. Which is where I worry for Mowbray because even though he sees the need, I haven’t seen anything which suggests to me that he can deliver it. He won’t be sacked anytime soon but this summer will be the clubs first foray into the European market. If he fails in terms of exceeding our potential then the club must look for his replacement.

[Paul Mani]

5 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

To be fair, as other teams have done, we could have spent less money on players that would have made more of an impact and given them more wages....

Absolutely agree. We need every cash signing to exceed expectations and their value. 

[Paul Mani]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Chaffinch said:

We do not have a god-given right to win every match and yesterday proved that. We were beaten by the better side and yet for vast periods of the match we contained them and competed with them. Given our injury crisis and the quality in the Fulham side I was expecting the kind of game we witnessed. Luck was against us in terms of the dubious offside decision and every loose ball seemed to drop to Fulham but on balance, they deserved to win. Frankly, given our current situation I am happy that we are competing in every fixture, the lads are giving everything for the cause and our relatively comfortable mid-table position is not a massive negative by any stretch of the imagination. We are seeing youngsters like Travis and Nyambe developing into real talents, we have found a relatively settled and competent back 4 and we have that mix of experience and youth that bodes well for the future. Four games ago we won 5-0 at Hillsborough...another side whose fans no doubt are saying that they should be doing better, likewise Stoke and many others. This is the nature of the division. We are an average sized fish in a moderately big pond. Beat Hull on Tuesday and it's butter side up again 

Hallelujah ??

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Come off it fellas. Fulham have spent a small fortune! I thought Bryan, Cavaleiro, Hector and Reid were absolutely class! Mitrovic is prob on £100k a week there And his finish showed why. Cairney £70k? Their overall budget is probably 5x ours... It’s a different world!

And yet, we dealt with them admirably and overall probably deserved a point. If we’d had Dack and any one of Rothwell, Holtby or Evans we could’ve nicked it.

I think we have had a mixed bag of performances at home this season. But as fans I believe we need to set up for more attritional type performances until we get Rothwell back and then Holtby and hopefully Dack in the summer. I want to see runs for JRC and Buckley over the remainder of the season.

On a separate note, I thought Nyambe, Lenihan and Travis were brilliant yesterday. Travis in particular looks more ‘complete’ than ever.

One negative was Gallagher. He was dreadful. I don’t know how he lasted 70 mins out there. Having survived it, I was surprised not to see him removed but he actually did look much better coming in from the left. Great save from the keeper to deny him.

 

 

13 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Absolutely agree. We need every cash signing to exceed expectations and their value. 

8 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Nope, the narrative (and history) suggests that budgets dictate league standing. My feeling is that Mowbray has been a very good manager so far for Rovers. He’s level headed, hardworking and well intentioned. He’s a good manager and works with a budget.

BUT the meeting confirmed to me that the club have no intention or Ffp ability to increase the budget high enough. Therefore, imo we 100% will need to punch above our weight to go up. That means the manager will have to develop a new, innovative method of finding those gems and then be able to integrate those players quickly. Which is where I worry for Mowbray because even though he sees the need, I haven’t seen anything which suggests to me that he can deliver it. He won’t be sacked anytime soon but this summer will be the clubs first foray into the European market. If he fails in terms of exceeding our potential then the club must look for his replacement.

I dont know why the fact that Mowbrays trying his best to improve us and that hes working hard is constantly brought up as a defence of him. No one doubts that, and the same probably goes for the other 23 managers in the League.

You mention FFP and the need players to exceed their value which I feel like your defensive and flippant attitude towards the Gallagher and Brereton is somewhat inconsistent with that. You mention wages but Gallagher was reportedly on 40k at Southampton so even with a wage cut you would suspect that he is probably our highest earner, and I bet Brereton isnt on the peanuts some make out considering that he is a 7m signing. There will always be teams like Fulham who undoubtedly we arent on the same level financially but it is much more difficult to plead comparative poverty when you have a 5m and high earning ineffective striker as our first choice winger, who has never had a good game from that position and we dont really have any other wingers bar Chapman who has fallen off the face of the earth. I appreciate that you have criticised Gallaghers performance but you have also defended Mowbray and even called the outlay on him and Brereton as a "fairly moderate/good amount!"

I am starting to get a case of de ja vu with Rankin Costello compared to what I have seen from Buckley. Both look out of place in the Championship and slightly overawed and it is obviously difficult to justify giving them a run of games unless they are capable of having an impact on games, even with our lack of alternatives. Of course they will and should get more chances but I can't say that either has made me particularly excited at all from the limited we have seen from them in terms of having any attacking impact on games.