Home V Fulham 08/02/2020

[Stuart]

5 minutes ago, unsall said:

With no mention of our horrendous injuries. Yes we all know other clubs have injuries but to have Cunningham,Dack, Holtby, Evans out for the rest of the season and Rothwell out for a few weeks would test any club, all near enough starters not just squad members, too many on here critical every time we get beat. First defeat at home since September against a good team who have spent millions. You obviously don’t think FFP is something we should worry about and just carry on spending, but think you and others would not be happy if we did get in playoffs and then had a points deduction, which could happen to Derby/ Sheffield Weds.

Seemingly, despite Venkys money and ambition, yes, FFP is something we need to worry about. The person responsible needs to be removed from their position. Whoever decided that we should gamble our future on two lads and play the out of position needs to be replaced.

Our manager said, and continues to say, that top six is the aim yet we are woefully under resourced to cope with injuries - it is by some miracle that our defence isn’t in tatters. That’s just not realistic but it continues to be the message coming out of the club. The only mugs falling for the rhetoric are in Pune.

We are continuing to reward failure and the one person in place to ensure that targets are met is allegedly waiting for the manager to come to him to tell him he’s had enough before he will even begin looking for a replacement.

Chuck in the Bennett situation and we are captainless, leaderless, and rudderless - and have no contingency plan.

[roversfan99]

41 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

I've read up until page 17 of this thread then got frustrated at all the OTT criticism again.  It was always going to be a tough game against a pre-season favourite in good form, even without our injuries, so why are people upset when that's what plays out?

I don't buy the theory that we set out just to avoid defeat. Yes we worked on trying to nullify their potency, but that's not the same thing. We were actually the better team for the first 15 mins I thought.

But overall it was a poor game, from both sides, shorn of any real quality. Neither team did enough to win it IMO; they passed it around more fluently after that initial spell, but mostly without menace. But for Travis unluckily playing Bryan in on the left when trying to intercept his pass, it would have finished 0-0. We could have drawn or won had Lenihan's goal been given (which looked fine to me but I've not seen a replay). If we'd have got the lucky deflection that Bryan got, or the offside decision goes our way, we win the game and are cockahoop like Fulham were as they knew they were given a tough game. It was those kind of fine margins that made the difference on the day.

The criticism I do agree with from yesterday is Gallagher out wide (which generally doesn't work and for which TM understandably gets criticised; maybe Bennett would have been more effective there seeing how Chapman is clearly out of the running) & Johnson, who I thought was a liability & overall I've been so disappointed with him, as I think we all are.

Tuesday's game is massive. Win and we're still well in the playoff hunt. Draw or lose and away at Charlton becomes must-win to keep hope's alive. I'd like to see Davenport in place of Johnson, and either Bennett, JRC or Chapman in place of Gallagher. Perhaps rotate Gallagher, JRC & Armstrong by playing Gallagher up top, JRC wide right with Armstrong in a free-ish no 10 role.

Let's try to be optimistic eh? We're far from out of the playoff hunt but listening to many on here you'd think we were knocking about in 20th place.

 

Surely its natural for football fans to be "upset" when their team loses?

I presume Man City fans are unhappy because their aim was to win the League again and they are miles away. Do you think their fans would be pacified if you said to them "youd think we was in 17th place?"

The weakest part of our team is probably out wide where we only have 1 short term injury and literally no other competent options, assuming Downing is a central player at his age (far more effective there) and Armstrong a striker. 

 

[frosty]

How anyone is still talking about the playoffs is beyond me. The only time this season I've given it serious thought was after Bristol City away when I thought that maybe, just maybe, we'd turned some sort of corner as that wasn't the kind of victory that we usually got.

Then, when we had chance to actually enter the top 6, we of course stunk the place out in home games v Wigan and Birmingham and it became clear that we'd just end up plodding in mid-table.

 

 

[47er]

11 hours ago, JHRover said:

This is exactly the issue. If I could see a really good squad being progressively assembled with a couple of steps forward each window then I'd be more comfortable with the 'work in progress' theory.

But I look at the current state of our squad and our transfer dealings and have little faith in us doing the necessary.

I look at this summer with trepidation. I see a major overhaul required with a number of key positions needing attention just to replace those we know are unlikely to be here next year.

We've already got the excuses lined up with Ffp concerns, and a manager/structure that struggles to get business done.

All well and good talking about developing youngsters but that carries immense risk of backfiring. I'd rather not gamble with our League status to do it.

Unless we radically change our approach I foresee difficulties in the summer and beyond.

Will the manager have any idea as to his budget or otherwise at this stage? Unlikely. Which makes me wonder how much of a plan there can be.

There is no plan. We bumble along from season to season spinning it as progress. Our transfers, in the main, are a disaster. We've spent enough money to get out of this League but we never will under this manager. Who else sticks a 6ft 3 striker on the wing and doesn't play or get cover for the one man who can head it? ludicrous.

[47er]

10 hours ago, Tom said:

Looks like it takes a touch or two on the edge of the box which is what @arbitro mentioned 

tbh it doesn't look like that to me! It looks as if the ball went through to Lenihan without a touch from anyone else. If I can't see a touch after looking at it 5 times I don't know how the lineman could on one look in real time with all those bodies in his vision.

To me it looks like a lazy decision .When he got the ball Lenihan was in an offside position, ergo flag goes up! Haven't seen footage of Lenihan's run to make a judgement on that.

However its an academic matter and we won't miss out on promotion because of the officials!

[Atko's Engine]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Surely its natural for football fans to be "upset" when their team loses?

I presume Man City fans are unhappy because their aim was to win the League again and they are miles away. Do you think their fans would be pacified if you said to them "youd think we was in 17th place?"

The weakest part of our team is probably out wide where we only have 1 short term injury and literally no other competent options, assuming Downing is a central player at his age (far more effective there) and Armstrong a striker. 

 

Yes be upset, of course. But let's get some perspective & proper context into how it's expressed; we've just gone 4 games undefeated, 2 wins & 2 draws, despite tough injuries sustained in 3 of those games. We've gone 4 months undefeated at home. To then lose narrowly to Fulham is no disaster. 

Thing is, when we win games or go on winning runs there's too many who argue it's in spite of Mowbray: "OK so we've won, but it's only 'cos he listened to us fans. He won't win the next one 'cos he'll pick his favourites again or spin his tombola, so he's taken us as far as he can and he's only in it for his pension". But when we lose games it's because of him, even when (like yesterday) he's picked an 11 that most people thought was decent; "it was inevitable we'd lose today with him in charge, he can't set up a team to win games, that's why he's taken us as far as he can".

Every defeat is followed by "he needs to go", how on earth can that be rational when we've had more wins than defeats? Why can't people accept that in football, not everything goes to plan and that there's stuff that goes on behind the scenes that we're not privy to but which will be absolutely at the heart of his decision making? 

Yes I'm sure City fans are concerned at the moment; they've put up a meek defence of their title having also endured a poor summer transfer window and injuries to key players, just like us. They're much further away from their target than we are from ours, yet even though they've lost a quarter of their league fixtures (not that dissimilar to Rovers' record of having lost a third of ours), their fans aren't calling for Pep's head.

 

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

Yes be upset, of course. But let's get some perspective & proper context into how it's expressed; we've just gone 4 games undefeated, 2 wins & 2 draws, despite tough injuries sustained in 3 of those games. We've gone 4 months undefeated at home. To then lose narrowly to Fulham is no disaster. 

Thing is, when we win games or go on winning runs there's too many who argue it's in spite of Mowbray: "OK so we've won, but it's only 'cos he listened to us fans. He won't win the next one 'cos he'll pick his favourites again or spin his tombola, so he's taken us as far as he can and he's only in it for his pension". But when we lose games it's because of him, even when (like yesterday) he's picked an 11 that most people thought was decent; "it was inevitable we'd lose today with him in charge, he can't set up a team to win games, that's why he's taken us as far as he can".

Every defeat is followed by "he needs to go", how on earth can that be rational when we've had more wins than defeats? Why can't people accept that in football, not everything goes to plan and that there's stuff that goes on behind the scenes that we're not privy to but which will be absolutely at the heart of his decision making? 

Yes I'm sure City fans are concerned at the moment; they've put up a meek defence of their title having also endured a poor summer transfer window and injuries to key players, just like us. They're much further away from their target than we are from ours, yet even though they've lost a quarter of their league fixtures (not that dissimilar to Rovers' record of having lost a third of ours), their fans aren't calling for Pep's head.

 

Your quote that is supposedly said every time we lose is obviously a massive exaggeration. But ultimately the problem is that the vast majority of the money weve had in the last 2 years has been horribly wasted and perhaps suggest that the manager will struggle to progress us to the team we aspire to be and ultimately we have never been in the top 6 which is our target. Those 2 frustrations and concerns are naturally unconvered when we lose a game.

[K-Hod]

2 hours ago, unsall said:

With no mention of our horrendous injuries. Yes we all know other clubs have injuries but to have Cunningham,Dack, Holtby, Evans out for the rest of the season and Rothwell out for a few weeks would test any club, all near enough starters not just squad members, too many on here critical every time we get beat. First defeat at home since September against a good team who have spent millions. You obviously don’t think FFP is something we should worry about and just carry on spending, but think you and others would not be happy if we did get in playoffs and then had a points deduction, which could happen to Derby/ Sheffield Weds.

Re FFP- aren’t you forgetting that we spent £12 Million on two strikers- one that plays on the wing (despite us having actual wingers at the club) and another that barely gets 5 minutes at a time? 
Stoke have spent the most in the league and they’re only just outside the relegation zone.

PNE have barely spent anything and they’re in the top 6. Perspective indeed.

[47er]

7 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

And yet despite it all we are heading for our highest finish for 5 years.

Are we?

[47er]

18 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

Yes be upset, of course. But let's get some perspective & proper context into how it's expressed; we've just gone 4 games undefeated, 2 wins & 2 draws, despite tough injuries sustained in 3 of those games. We've gone 4 months undefeated at home. To then lose narrowly to Fulham is no disaster. 

Thing is, when we win games or go on winning runs there's too many who argue it's in spite of Mowbray: "OK so we've won, but it's only 'cos he listened to us fans. He won't win the next one 'cos he'll pick his favourites again or spin his tombola, so he's taken us as far as he can and he's only in it for his pension". But when we lose games it's because of him, even when (like yesterday) he's picked an 11 that most people thought was decent; "it was inevitable we'd lose today with him in charge, he can't set up a team to win games, that's why he's taken us as far as he can".

Every defeat is followed by "he needs to go", how on earth can that be rational when we've had more wins than defeats? Why can't people accept that in football, not everything goes to plan and that there's stuff that goes on behind the scenes that we're not privy to but which will be absolutely at the heart of his decision making? 

Yes I'm sure City fans are concerned at the moment; they've put up a meek defence of their title having also endured a poor summer transfer window and injuries to key players, just like us. They're much further away from their target than we are from ours, yet even though they've lost a quarter of their league fixtures (not that dissimilar to Rovers' record of having lost a third of ours), their fans aren't calling for Pep's head.

 

He's a manager who's won trophies is Pep. No settling for second with him. Chalk and cheese.

[DE.]

5 minutes ago, 47er said:

Are we?

Even if we are it's only impressive as a statement without context, as those five seasons include when we were under embargo and had all of our decent players sold, a season where we spent 7 months under Owen Coyle's management (still with no money to spend), a season in League 1 and last season - and from memory we're practically identical in terms of points for that.

[Atko's Engine]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

He's a manager who's won trophies is Pep. No settling for second with him. Chalk and cheese.

I think he's settling for second this season!

Joking aside I wasn't attempting to compare TM with Pep, I was responding to Roversfan99's comment about City fans not accepting 17th place. Of course Pep is one of the best in the game & way above TM in stature, though I do wonder how he & others like him would manage at a club lower down the divisions that didn't have such an array of wealth & talent at its disposal.

[Atko's Engine]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Your quote that is supposedly said every time we lose is obviously a massive exaggeration. But ultimately the problem is that the vast majority of the money weve had in the last 2 years has been horribly wasted and perhaps suggest that the manager will struggle to progress us to the team we aspire to be and ultimately we have never been in the top 6 which is our target. Those 2 frustrations and concerns are naturally unconvered when we lose a game.

I've probably read each of those comments on here in the last week to be fair.

I get the frustration re Gallagher & Brereton I really do, but to focus on those 2 signings alone and say TM deserves sacking for them ignores the value he's made on Dack & Armstrong. And who knows, if either one of Gallagher or Brereton notches 10-15 goals in the next 18 months we might get most of that money back, because that's how crazy the market is.

Do I think that will happen? Probably not, but look at Che Adams for example; he's 23, had 1 good season in a very average team that came from nowhere, and he got a £15m move...

[Sparks Rover]

If Mowbray was an ops manager in a major factory hed be sacked by now for the money wasted with nowt to show for it.

Mowbray clearly doesn't give a shyte and is happy to keep us top half with a slight sniff here and there, but generally he's picking his money up with no pressure.   Players too, they know their limitations most of them. No desire across the club and no direction from above

[Fraserkirky]

9 hours ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

I thought yesterday highlighted the unbalanced squad that TM has created. Obviously he will point to injuries but look at it:

5 strikers in the squad yet we only ever really start with one up front.

Out of those 5 strikers Armstrong is the only one who is competent out on the wing but TM chooses to play Gallagher and Samuel

Samuel was naff in league 1 why is he even considered for selection at this point?

Gallagher on the right wing is and has been all season embarrassing. It doesn't work yet TM keeps trying it, he's probably tried it about 20 times so far this season. His only good game was preston away when he played through the middle. He's been rubbish has gallagher but TM isn't doing him any favours.

Brereton - we don't even need to discuss. I haven't got the energy to detail how spectacularly bad his signing is. It says a hell of a lot that Samuel came on before him.

Chapman is the only winger in the squad yet can't get near the team - waste of money

Mulgrew and Smallwood taking up wages due to TM overvaluing them.

Johnson - isn't suited to playing a passing game. waste of money

With 3 of our ideal back five (Walton, Tosin, Cunningham) only on loan, we've got major surgery to do to the squad with little resources to do it.

By my count in the summer we need a 2 keepers, a backup right back, a left back, at least 1 maybe 2 centre backs. a wide player and a striker. possibly even another centre mid if age catches up with Downing before August.

Worrying stuff.

 

We desperately need some youngsters to step up 

[Paul Mani]

I for one am weirdly curious and excited for the rest of the season. Not because I think I’m going to be blinded by Tika taka style entertainment or because I think we’ll go roaring into the playoffs (those hopes were all but gone when Dack collapsed against Wigan and confirmed with the subsequent injuries to Evans, Holtby and Rothwell).

No, I’m excited to see the development of our young players over the next 16 games or whatever. Our position in the league and injuries have inadvertently created an almost perfect climate for them. We aren’t going down and will potentially be out of the playoff race by March. Nyambe, Lenihan, Travis and Arma are flying. The improvement in those four grows week on week.

I want to see JRC, Buckley and Davenport play 10 games before the end of the season. I wouldn’t even be adverse to Hilton playing a couple back end or Butterworth if he can get fit. They will be so much better for it in the long run. Let them get upto speed and let’s see what they’ve got to offer.

To get one or two of these playing well and fully integrated into the first team would be brilliant for the club and reduce the volume of transfers needed in the summer. Also grows our assets and provides potential for sustainability. Get the young lads played I say. We’ll never have a better chance to have a look at them!

Edited February 10, 2020 by Paul Mani

[Blue blood]

8 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

I've probably read each of those comments on here in the last week to be fair.

I get the frustration re Gallagher & Brereton I really do, but to focus on those 2 signings alone and say TM deserves sacking for them ignores the value he's made on Dack & Armstrong. And who knows, if either one of Gallagher or Brereton notches 10-15 goals in the next 18 months we might get most of that money back, because that's how crazy the market is.

Do I think that will happen? Probably not, but look at Che Adams for example; he's 23, had 1 good season in a very average team that came from nowhere, and he got a £15m move...

Its not just these 2 signings though it's a raft of them. From Whittingham to Walton, Johnson to Samuel over half of TMs signings have been really poor. Factor in that the majority of the budget was spent on Bereton and Gally and they do deserve to take more attention because they are where TM has chosen to put the majority of the budget. In looking at these guys, you are considering a fair chunk of the overall picture. 

I think the 2020-21 squad thread shows how poor TM has been in the transfer window that next year we are looking a squad with huge holes in it - after 3 seasons and 5+ transfer windows. 

 

[Atko's Engine]

I don't think many on here were disappointed with us signing Whittingham or Johnson, but they did/have proved disappointing and TM admits as much. Walton is not as bad as people make out (as proven on Saturday); his main weakness is that he's on loan not ours. Samuel I accept has flattered to deceive, but then he didn't cost much & is coming back from a year out injured.

Arguably his 1st 2 windows (which included Whittingham & Samuel) were successful as all his signings combined helped achieve the only acceptable aim of an immediate return from L1, some being more crucial than others of course. He can't reasonably be expected then to start building a squad capable of reaching the Championship playoffs when starting the season in L1!

Last season we consolidated, comfortably in the end. This season there is still decent chance of improvement despite awful unforeseeable injuries throughout the team, and disappointment in both transfer windows.

The reason we're not closer to 6th is because of 2 poor results at home to Luton & Charlton back in August; had they been victories like they should have been, things would be a lot brighter. Without wishing to tempt fate, that type of result seems to be behind us. 

So I think there's plenty of scope to say he's progressed the club significantly, and that's not even mentioning the increased value of the squad now compared to when he arrived & the behind-the-scenes technical improvements at Brockall, both if which should bear fruit longer term in terms of sustainability.

[Oldgregg86]

13 hours ago, unsall said:

With no mention of our horrendous injuries. Yes we all know other clubs have injuries but to have Cunningham,Dack, Holtby, Evans out for the rest of the season and Rothwell out for a few weeks would test any club, all near enough starters not just squad members, too many on here critical every time we get beat. First defeat at home since September against a good team who have spent millions. You obviously don’t think FFP is something we should worry about and just carry on spending, but think you and others would not be happy if we did get in playoffs and then had a points deduction, which could happen to Derby/ Sheffield Weds.

It’s not the defeat what has got people irked. We are going to lose and can’t beat everybody. There is no shame in losing one nil to a very good Fulham side. It’s the manner of the defeat. The attitude to the game. The fact we where already defeated before we kicked off and did everything we could not to lose and lost anyway. The over cautious negative approach to games. We arnt going down and have the feintest chance of getting in the top six (theoretically) so what did we have to lose by going all out for a win. I would have rather lost by a couple more by trying to win 

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

It’s the manner of the defeat. The attitude to the game. The fact we where already defeated before we kicked off and did everything we could not to lose and lost anyway. The over cautious negative approach to games. We arnt going down and have the feintest chance of getting in the top six (theoretically) so what did we have to lose by going all out for a win. I would have rather lost by a couple more by trying to win 

We did try to win the game. You aren't going to allow Fulham space in behind or space in the middle for Cairney to creative loads. You sit deep and counter attack them. You aren't going to push forward and allow loads of space..they are different way to win a game

[Oldgregg86]

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I for one am weirdly curious and excited for the rest of the season. Not because I think I’m going to be blinded by Tika taka style entertainment or because I think we’ll go roaring into the playoffs (those hopes were all but gone when Dack collapsed against Wigan and confirmed with the subsequent injuries to Evans, Holtby and Rothwell).

No, I’m excited to see the development of our young players over the next 16 games or whatever. Our position in the league and injuries have inadvertently created an almost perfect climate for them. We aren’t going down and will potentially be out of the playoff race by March. Nyambe, Lenihan, Travis and Arma are flying. The improvement in those four grows week on week.

I want to see JRC, Buckley and Davenport play 10 games before the end of the season. I wouldn’t even be adverse to Hilton playing a couple back end or Butterworth if he can get fit. They will be so much better for it in the long run. Let them get upto speed and let’s see what they’ve got to offer.

To get one or two of these playing well and fully integrated into the first team would be brilliant for the club and reduce the volume of transfers needed in the summer. Also grows our assets and provides potential for sustainability. Get the young lads played I say. We’ll never have a better chance to have a look at them!

Completely agree and imo would be the only way left not to make this a wasted season. Do you think tony will do this ? Give the players you mention ten games in what are ultimately dead rubbers ? Play Hilton over the other two to keepers ? See how good the youngsters are and no if they are capable, ready or not and then go in to the summer with a clear plan and idea of who is first team ready, who needs loaning and who needs releasing, see who he can offload and free up some much needed funds for wages or do you think he will give them a few minutes off the bench and the odd start towards the end of April like I do

[Oldgregg86]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

We did try to win the game. You aren't going to allow Fulham space in behind or space in the middle for Cairney to creative loads. You sit deep and counter attack them. You aren't going to push forward and allow loads of space..they are different way to win a game

Yeah your right and completely agree. So how many times did we counter and trouble there keeper , how many times did bell and Nyambe turn back when a counter was on, why was the play slow and laboured with a slow tempo, when it wasn’t working why did he nit change it sooner with the emphasis on us as the home team to go for the win

[tomphil]

He doesn't need to asses Samuel, Mulgrew, Smallwood etc during the remainder of the season either but he probably will....

[Blue blood]

Thanks for a well reasoned reply - I'll try responding in the post to help link up the discussion. 

 

42 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

I don't think many on here were disappointed with us signing Whittingham or Johnson, but they did/have proved disappointing and TM admits as much. Walton is not as bad as people make out (as proven on Saturday); his main weakness is that he's on loan not ours. Samuel I accept has flattered to deceive, but then he didn't cost much & is coming back from a year out injured.

Walton - the loan element is a big problem as there aren't too many benefits for us to it. But again the best I hear about him is "not as bad" which is hardly a ringing endorsement! When the debate is over how bad a player is rather than how good - and I think it would be hard to argue he has been good for us - you know that you've got a duff one. Fwiw he's not as bad as I initially thought imo but is still pretty poor. Far too many errors costing us goals, plus very few games where he has had a positive contribution. I struggle to see how he is anything but a failure given his performances and circumstances of him being here. 

Samuel a little bit more grey. Did ok for us a year before, but not looking like he will kick on. £500 k for a league 1 team was no small amount and one of our big 3 signings that year, so perhaps the expectation would be he would have made more of a contribution. For a 1 season, decent player I'm not sure it's a success story. Probably on reflection I'd say that's a pretty neutral transfer. 

 

42 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

Arguably his 1st 2 windows (which included Whittingham & Samuel) were successful as all his signings combined helped achieve the only acceptable aim of an immediate return from L1, some being more crucial than others of course. He can't reasonably be expected then to start building a squad capable of reaching the Championship playoffs when starting the season in L1!

Hmm not sure I agree all his signings did contribute. Hart, Harper, Whittingham and Caddis all spring to mind as not really making much odds as to whether we were promoted or not. We didn't hugely use our loans from higher table teams to full advantage. (Armstrong and arguably Antonsson aside.) A lot of the key players who carries us to promotion were already here: Raya, Nayambe, Mulgrew, Bennett, Graham, Lenihen. 

Could he have started building for the championship in those years - perhaps not (although to his credit Dack and Armstrong were so can't see it as a total free hit and he did ok at it.) That said given he had nearly a year and a half preparatory time pre championship with his team, he really should have been in a position to know exactly what was needed and to hit the ground running. Given we've not really challenged playoffs with such a huge prep time doesn't suggest he's doing that well or used that time effectively - especially when you consider how threadbare the squad will be next year. 

Perhaps disappointingly is the number of players who aren't really decent championship standard. I agree the playoff type players to give you that push were hard to get in league 1 but the rest of the squad being a solid and decent platform for them could have been. That a number of them aren't but are on decent contracts taking up wages is a problem. Smallwood with new contract, Bell, Samuel, Williams aren't really the type of players needed for a promotion winning squad. Factor in how unbalanced the squad is too and you wonder what TM has spent the last 3 years doing to be in this situation. 

42 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

Last season we consolidated, comfortably in the end. This season there is still decent chance of improvement despite awful unforeseeable injuries throughout the team, and disappointment in both transfer windows.

Last season we went on the worse run in living memory and blew the January transfer window. I can't think of any manager who would have survived such a run. Also whilst the outcome was ok, the manner involving a second half of the season collapse was utterly disappointing leaving us wondering what might have been. 

As for this season the excuses you offer - and I agree the injuries have been terrible and a huge blow - are also criticisms of TM. He blew the two transfer windows, no one else. He is the one who brought in misfiring strikers so that we are dependant on our creative mids for goals. He is the one who has an unbalanced squad - we lucked out with injuries in the first half of the season that our paper thin defence wasn't exposed more.

Injuries have made a huge difference - it would be daft to say otherwise - but had TM done his job a bit better in getting in scoring strikers or used the windows better they wouldn't have hit us quite so badly. 

42 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

The reason we're not closer to 6th is because of 2 poor results at home to Luton & Charlton back in August; had they been victories like they should have been, things would be a lot brighter. Without wishing to tempt fate, that type of result seems to be behind us. 

Again this defence is a  criticism of TM. He can't win against the weaker teams (you could factor in the Wigan home and arguably Brum game too - I'm not at all sure it is behind us.) Its a huge weakness of his.

 

42 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

So I think there's plenty of scope to say he's progressed the club significantly, and that's not even mentioning the increased value of the squad now compared to when he arrived & the behind-the-scenes technical improvements at Brockall, both if which should bear fruit longer term in terms of sustainability.

Am a bit torn on the increased value too. Probably overall - although we won't see that £12 mill back for our strikers - but whilst the squad has improved it is still horribly thin and unbalanced going into next season. Also whilst credit has to be given for improving our situation somewhat, given that Coyle had to sell his best players and had no money to replace them, it's not the fairest of comparisons. Also given we've had 3 seasons of TM, I do worry how slow the progress has been. Defence and up front and keeper don't look much better, if at all. Midfield is I will agree. 

Finally and this is a tad unfair as off topic slightly but ties into the behind the scenes stuff - am not sure we are better off. It's clear dark forces are still at work at Ewood - 3 managers from the same agency being an example of this - so I do wonder how much better things actually can be. Not TMs fault at all this one, but I'm equally sure he can't improve that situation either. 

Anyhow that's a heck of a ramble. TM isn't terrible and often it comes across that way in my posts. Not the intention - I dont think he is very good at all but he is a bit better than some of the non managers we've had in my lifetime. I feel that if we were a normal club with standards and hadn't been so horrifically treated no one would be happy with TM or the job he is doing. 

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12 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Re FFP- aren’t you forgetting that we spent £12 Million on two strikers- one that plays on the wing (despite us having actual wingers at the club) and another that barely gets 5 minutes at a time? 
Stoke have spent the most in the league and they’re only just outside the relegation zone.

PNE have barely spent anything and they’re in the top 6. Perspective indeed.

And now Costello possible hamstring, think we’ve done extremely well considering half a team out, you conveniently forget when PNE had a couple of injuries they lost 4 in a row, there’s no team in this division that has had long term injuries as we have had, and re you saying TM saying we should be in the top 6, and if he isn’t he’s failed, crazy statement. If we hadn’t got all these injuries we probably would have been in the top 6. Still think Mowbray can do a job here (obviously in a minority on here) always worry about who would take over.