Rovers v Hull

[Wegerleswiggle]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

 

The Bowyer/Mowbray parallel is quite an easy one for me. There are very striking similarities between the two, both the player's friends, GB from a background of bringing players along and possibly not focused enough on results. TM too concerned about protecting the players already at the Club and too fearful of bringing in outsiders to try and improve the team. Both their respective sides lacked mental toughness,  flattered to deceive and blew  up when it looked like we might achieve something. Both their respective sides failed to play for 90 minutes and can only put in a maximum of 45 mins at a time. Both managers far too cautious. The main difference between the two is that Bowyer's Dad Ian identified some cracking signings on a budget whereas Mowbray's team don't look as if they could unearth a hidden gem if he was playing in their back garden.

Bottom line, huge similarities between the two but neither anywhere near good enough. At least not for a team with aspirations of promotion from the Championship.

 

Can't argue with a single word of that. 

Great post!!

[Vilesinner]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

Not great from what I've seen of him in the U23's etc.

The lad's 21 years old now and should be showing a lot more.

Outshone Johnson when they played together. 

We should be looking to him, Buckley and Mols imo; not like we have that many other options.

Bennett and Johnson forever giving the ball away. Bennett does try, Johnson seems half asleep most of the time.

[@roverseas]

Still a huge month is February - and I feel we need a response from the lads after our defensive display against Fulham the other day.  We lacked any desire to try and play positive football.  Injuries or not, Hull City are wobbling and we need a win and preferably one that gets the strikers scoring goals. Not sure how we will line up after the new of JRC's injury.

 

Fingers crossed for the result - build up starts now.

 

 

[JacknOry]

Hull lost their two best players this window in Bowen and Grosicki and have lost 4 out of the last 5. We always seem to do quite well against them too.

So it will be 0-1 Maddison.

[rigger]

A left side of Williams and Bell is not one I would go with. I would prefer a back three with downing at left wing-back. But each to there own. 

[rigger]

6 hours ago, Vilesinner said:

I would go with the 2 untried. No point keeping making the same choices and expecting different outcomes.

But you can't play 2 untried players instead of Bennett, the ref wouldn't allow it. 

[Paul Mani]

8 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I had a look at the results from that season after the debate came up.

We started off well under Mowbray a draw and 2 wins  (also throwing away a winning position against Burton in the opening game) and if I recall correctly, briefly got our noses above the safety line at that point.

We then embarked on a horrific seven game winless run, failing to beat a ten man Norwich in one of the games, before rounding off with three wins and two draws from the last five fixtures, the last two wins coming in the final two games when it was too late.

Nothing much changes really does it?

We also finished on the highest total ever for a Championship club to get relegated in spite of the mess Coyle left us in.

[47er]

1 hour ago, rigger said:

But you can't play 2 untried players instead of Bennett, the ref wouldn't allow it. 

And Mowbray definitely wouldn't!

[Paul Mani]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

 

The Bowyer/Mowbray parallel is quite an easy one for me. There are very striking similarities between the two, both the player's friends, GB from a background of bringing players along and possibly not focused enough on results. TM too concerned about protecting the players already at the Club and too fearful of bringing in outsiders to try and improve the team. Both their respective sides lacked mental toughness,  flattered to deceive and blew  up when it looked like we might achieve something. Both their respective sides failed to play for 90 minutes and can only put in a maximum of 45 mins at a time. Both managers far too cautious. The main difference between the two is that Bowyer's Dad Ian identified some cracking signings on a budget whereas Mowbray's team don't look as if they could unearth a hidden gem if he was playing in their back garden.

Bottom line, huge similarities between the two but neither anywhere near good enough. At least not for a team with aspirations of promotion from the Championship.

 

You make a fantastic point Rev. I agree with all the similarities too. The difference you raised re the signings are interesting. I remember Bowyer getting slaughtered for some of his signings and not often lauded until he left. I wonder whether one day there will be fans saying “I wish we could find another Dack!” Or “Remember when we had Dack, Armstrong, Rothwell, Holtby, Downing, Travis, Lenihan and Nyambe in one team!? I wish we had that now!”. I wouldn’t be surprised to see 3 of those playing in the Premiership soon.

To add to your point about the similarities the coaches and lads talk about TM now just like Shorty etc used to talk about GB. I know that they love him and respect him and I think he TM (as was GB) is a very solid manager with the right work ethics and morals. People on here saying he’s sly and trying to keep himself in a job are so far wide of the mark.

But, I share your concerns about whether TM (like GB) has the magic dust to galvanise a mid table team on a mid table budget and do what Alex Neil has done, what Chris Wilder has done, what Ollie did with Blackpool or dare I say it Dyche with Burnley. There’s nothing about TM which says he will. The foreign market is his last chance for us imo. The whole thing is at risk of getting stale.

Let him have the summer to bring in affordable, better quality foreign players and hopefully fully integrate a Buckley, JRC, Butterworth etc. If that doesn’t work then for me Mowbray is all out of ideas working within the budget he has. You won’t find me whining or kicking and screaming about a thoroughly good manager but sooner or later his time will run out! 

[Guest]

9 hours ago, Mercer said:

His ability to beat a man, create something out of nothing have impressed me.  Has more natural ability than virtually anyone in that U23 team.  I think there's a 'witch hunt' where Chapman's concerned - Mowbray doesn't seem to like the lad so neither do the 'happy clappers'!  The manager or his coaching staff haven't impressed me either - other than Johnson, I'd sack the feckin lot of 'em.

I don't think there's a witch hunt conspiracy against Harry Chapman. Many, including myself, saw some of his issues develop at Leyland before the turn of the year, and TM seems to have similar issues with the lad too. Maybe it just means the lad has some problems... rather than there being a witch hunt against him, people could just be right about him.

He definitely does have more natural ability than most in that Under 23's team you're right, but he's also older than most in that team, has much more playing experience than most in that team and was signed for the first team. He's not a youth team player, Chapman has plenty of first team minutes under his belt.

He's often very selfish on the ball in those games I've seen at Leyland, and him and Dan Butterworth were constantly spatting on the pitch - seen it with my own eyes. We don't need any of that crap at first team level. I trust TM's judgement on players personalities, mainly because it seems to be the one thing that TM is bothered about to the extreme. 

My trust in TM on transfers... meh. But on people? I trust him 100%. He's not the type to manufacture a situation in order to not play a player. Could the man who kept a player at the club for 9 months whilst he recovered from an injury at our cost not under contract, JUST so he could get a move to MK Dons, really be capable of creating a witch hunt against one of his own? I doubt it personally.

[tomphil]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

 

The Bowyer/Mowbray parallel is quite an easy one for me. There are very striking similarities between the two, both the player's friends, GB from a background of bringing players along and possibly not focused enough on results. TM too concerned about protecting the players already at the Club and too fearful of bringing in outsiders to try and improve the team. Both their respective sides lacked mental toughness,  flattered to deceive and blew  up when it looked like we might achieve something. Both their respective sides failed to play for 90 minutes and can only put in a maximum of 45 mins at a time. Both managers far too cautious. The main difference between the two is that Bowyer's Dad Ian identified some cracking signings on a budget whereas Mowbray's team don't look as if they could unearth a hidden gem if he was playing in their back garden.

Bottom line, huge similarities between the two but neither anywhere near good enough. At least not for a team with aspirations of promotion from the Championship.

 

Do we actually have those aspirations though and if so how strong are they from the ownership ?

When they get someone in they like and trust they seem more than happy to have it bob along causing them less headache. They're happy to fund it on the promise players will be grown and sold to contribute and promotion will just somehow organically happen some day.

[Mattyblue]

Bowyer was largely slaughtered for his later signings - Koita, Feeney, Delfounso et al. Bargain bin transfers after the taps had been turned off and we had begun flogging off some quality players.

His earlier signings of Cairney, Marshall, Gestede etc. were excellent .
 

[tomphil]

The budget thing is a bit of a myth as well in terms of transfers.  How many midtable clubs have been able to spend one off fees of 6 then 5 million.  Even 1,75 million rising to 3 and a 4 yr 15 grand per week  contract is impressive by midtable club standards.

[DE.]

15 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Bowyer was largely slaughtered for his later signings - Koita, Feeney, Delfounso et al. Bargain bin transfers after the taps had been turned off and we had begun flogging off some quality players.

His earlier signings of Cairney, Marshall, Gestede etc. were excellent .
 

Correct. Bowyer was simply unable to operate in a market where his budget was severely restricted and brought in a lot of dross as a result. In fairness to him I think most managers would have struggled in that situation, save for proper long-in-the-tooth types like McCarthy and Warnock who have been there, done it and know where to look even on a shoestring budget. 

[tomphil]

If that was desperate it was nothing compared to Coyle bringing in Brown, Greer etc and wanting a nice contract for old mates like Giles Barnes or whatever his name was.

Harsh reality is somewhere behind the scenes you had people taking advantage of the situation and getting rubbish nobody else wanted onto our books on good wages. That's the entire story of  venkys tenure and nobody has been immune to it in the managers seat to varying degrees i'd wager.

Edited February 11, 2020 by tomphil

[Tom]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

We also finished on the highest total ever for a Championship club to get relegated in spite of the mess Coyle left us in.

Ah now it makes sense, I did wonder why this was next to the premier league trophy in the jack walker stand 

 

Kidding of course, we were unlucky that season, still frustratingly our own fault at times, Preston at home was a stinger 

Edited February 11, 2020 by Tom

[neophox]

Hull has alot of injuries coming in to this game. A lot of youngsters will get their chance.

[rigger]

Any update on likelyhood of postponement

[rog of the rovers]

14 minutes ago, rigger said:

Any update on likelyhood of postponement

I would doubt it at this stage.....

Its on the Red Button isn't it? Even I could be tempted into giving this one a miss....its pretty grim out there!

Edited February 11, 2020 by rog of the rovers

[Guest]

Doubt it will get postponed, but if floods on some of the back roads near me get worse I might have to give it a miss and stick Sky on. Would be the first home game in three years I haven't attended but sometimes it can't be helped. 

[Mattyblue]

If it’s on it will be our lowest actual home league crowd for a looonnngg time, I’d wager, early 90s perhaps.

Edited February 11, 2020 by Mattyblue

[CD_93]

The Marcus Maddison derby. We're doomed.

 

 

[Tom]

I’m in cherry tree, it’s grim but no chance it will be off as it is.

The heavy rain was the biggest risk but this morning it’s intermittent sleet and hail 

[47er]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

I don't think there's a witch hunt conspiracy against Harry Chapman. Many, including myself, saw some of his issues develop at Leyland before the turn of the year, and TM seems to have similar issues with the lad too. Maybe it just means the lad has some problems... rather than there being a witch hunt against him, people could just be right about him.

He definitely does have more natural ability than most in that Under 23's team you're right, but he's also older than most in that team, has much more playing experience than most in that team and was signed for the first team. He's not a youth team player, Chapman has plenty of first team minutes under his belt.

He's often very selfish on the ball in those games I've seen at Leyland, and him and Dan Butterworth were constantly spatting on the pitch - seen it with my own eyes. We don't need any of that crap at first team level. I trust TM's judgement on players personalities, mainly because it seems to be the one thing that TM is bothered about to the extreme. 

My trust in TM on transfers... meh. But on people? I trust him 100%. He's not the type to manufacture a situation in order to not play a player. Could the man who kept a player at the club for 9 months whilst he recovered from an injury at our cost not under contract, JUST so he could get a move to MK Dons, really be capable of creating a witch hunt against one of his own? I doubt it personally.

You can't have it both ways! If TM is such a good judge of people why did he sign a player he won't play because of his alleged character deficiencies?

[47er]

10 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

Mowbray's done okay for me in every area except big money signings where he has been abysmal.

Unfortunately if you don't spend well you arent going up.

If we'd spent 12m on a couple of strikers who could bag 20-30 goals a season between them (not unreasonable for that cash) then we'd be sitting pretty for the playoffs.

But he really ballsed it up with Brereton, one of Rovers worst signings ever, and while there is more to Gallagher he still looks like he will do well to get 5 all season.

He'd have got more playing centrally, though some of his misses make me wonder even about that!