Slow Build?

[Husky]

I've wanted to post this for a while, but I was waiting for an upturn in form, so it didn't get lost in all the (probably justified) manager and team bashing that go along with bad performances and results. So before a possible Brentbashing this Saturday (eeek):

Referring to past comments about the direction Rovers are supposedly heading in. What exactly does a Slow Build mean? Has this ever been explained?

Does it refer to building Rovers Financially or Team Progression on the Pitch. As those 2 things are contradictory - as 'making money' would imply selling your best players for a profit which would of course weaken the team.

If it's about long term team progression, then how exactly does signing loan players that see their future elsewhere (and ones we blatantly cannot afford anyway) fit into this?

?‍♂️

Edited February 19, 2020 by Husky

[Mashed Potatoes]

3 minutes ago, Husky said:

I've wanted to post this for a while, but I was waiting for an upturn in form, so it didn't get lost in all the (probably justified) manager and team bashing that go along with bad performances and results. So before a possible Brentbashing this Saturday (eeek):

Referring to past comments about the direction Rovers are supposedly heading in. What exactly does a Slow Build mean? Has this ever been explained?

Does it refer to building Rovers Financially or Team Progression on the Pitch. As those 2 things are contradictory - as 'making money' would imply selling your best players for a profit which would of course weaken the team.

If it's about long term team progression, then how exactly does signing loan players that see their future elsewhere (and ones we blatantly cannot afford anyway) fit into this?

?‍♂️

I think what was meant was that the club was not going to take the absurd "roll the dice" approach of spending transfer fees on a scale that would bust the FFP limits but gambling that promotion to the Premier League would solve the FFP issue. If promotion is not obtained then there has to be a fire sale of assets or a points deduction or both. Rather the club would stay within FFP limits but acknowledging that it would probably take more than a year or two to build to a level where the club could win promotion.

[AllRoverAsia]

3 hours ago, Husky said:

I've wanted to post this for a while, but I was waiting for an upturn in form, so it didn't get lost in all the (probably justified) manager and team bashing that go along with bad performances and results. So before a possible Brentbashing this Saturday (eeek):

Referring to past comments about the direction Rovers are supposedly heading in. What exactly does a Slow Build mean? Has this ever been explained?

Does it refer to building Rovers Financially or Team Progression on the Pitch. As those 2 things are contradictory - as 'making money' would imply selling your best players for a profit which would of course weaken the team.

If it's about long term team progression, then how exactly does signing loan players that see their future elsewhere (and ones we blatantly cannot afford anyway) fit into this?

?‍♂️

It means Jam Tomorrow, for the fans

Edited February 19, 2020 by AllRoverAsia

[Guest]

95% of promoted teams from this league into the PL are either bouncing straight back up after relegation, or go out and spend loads of cash in the transfer window (£20m+). It's VERY rare that a 'slow build' actually finds promotion. 

QPR (spent loads) vs Derby County ("slow build") in 2014: QPR went up
Aston Villa (spent loads) vs Leeds United ("slow build") in 2019: Aston Villa went up

WBA this season have spent a fuck ton, so have Fulham, Leeds will probably fall short too. (If Leeds manage promotion is the slowest build in FL history).

We're destined to sit in this league for a long time using a "slow build" strategy. Forest, Leeds, Rovers, Derby, Preston have all and are all adopting this route, and it isn't working for any of us. You either spend big, or you don't.

Completely agree with the sentiments expressed about loan players, and how utterly conflicting that is with the overall transfer policy the club has quite publicly outlined.

[SBlue]

20 minutes ago, JoeH said:

95% of promoted teams from this league into the PL are either bouncing straight back up after relegation, or go out and spend loads of cash in the transfer window (£20m+). It's VERY rare that a 'slow build' actually finds promotion. 

QPR (spent loads) vs Derby County ("slow build") in 2014: QPR went up
Aston Villa (spent loads) vs Leeds United ("slow build") in 2019: Aston Villa went up

WBA this season have spent a fuck ton, so have Fulham, Leeds will probably fall short too. (If Leeds manage promotion is the slowest build in FL history).

We're destined to sit in this league for a long time using a "slow build" strategy. Forest, Leeds, Rovers, Derby, Preston have all and are all adopting this route, and it isn't working for any of us. You either spend big, or you don't.

Completely agree with the sentiments expressed about loan players, and how utterly conflicting that is with the overall transfer policy the club has quite publicly outlined.

Some REALLY selective stats there, it's basically just not true.

Norwich? Huddersfield? Sheffield Utd? Cardiff? Burnley? 

Forest and Derby have spent shit-tons - and both Leeds and Preston are in the autos and top 6.

 

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and I'd certainly prefer we do it in a smart and sustainable way - maybe that's just me?

Edited February 19, 2020 by S8 & Blue

[Adam C]

It’s fairly obvious that loan signings are used to plug a gap until we are able to identify a permanent signing that is within our price range. That’s a policy that all clubs use, from the bottom of the league to the top. I don’t see what is so confusing about that. Given that we have no chance of signing a player with the pedigree of Tosin I’m glad that the transfer team have secured him on loan.

For me, we would be in a much poorer position without Tosin. When he plays we keep possession, look composed at the back and can play up the field without aimlessly hoofing it. We should do everything in our power to get him on loan for another season. There’s no shame that and I don’t think it’s short term thinking to sign a top quality player on loan when we couldn’t ever afford the transfer fee to have him here permanently. 

[Amo]

4 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

I think what was meant was that the club was not going to take the absurd "roll the dice" approach of spending transfer fees on a scale that would bust the FFP limits but gambling that promotion to the Premier League would solve the FFP issue. If promotion is not obtained then there has to be a fire sale of assets or a points deduction or both. Rather the club would stay within FFP limits but acknowledging that it would probably take more than a year or two to build to a level where the club could win promotion.

Apart from the £12m spunked on two duds which was predicated on selling Dack?

[frosty]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

QPR (spent loads) vs Derby County ("slow build") in 2014: QPR went up
 

And Derby were going nowhere until they changed manager. I can remember Nigel Clough talking season after season (mid-table finish after mid-table finish) about a slow build, young players etc, and being praised for it. He left at some point during the 13/14 season, in comes McClaren, no messing about, 3rd place and play-off final straight away. 

Edited February 19, 2020 by frosty

[tomphil]

In recent times it looks like a build but before that it looked like regression was kicking in and that's before more injuries cropped up. All in all though it's just standard championship stuff that at least half a dozen other clubs will be going through the same.

Don't think there is anything unique about here good or bad right now but there finally looks like some desire to push it forwards instead of just tread water. If you really want to go places you have to have that running through the club top to bottom a little pressure does no harm.

Definitely think there has been and continues to be building up behind the scenes so you'd expect a real push on the pitch  in a season or two. No need for boom and bust but keep setting realistic achievable targets and focus less on the excuses. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

35 minutes ago, Amo said:

Apart from the £12m spunked on two duds which was predicated on selling Dack?

Yawn. 

[AllRoverAsia]

 

 

 

1 hour ago, S8 & Blue said:

Some REALLY selective stats there, it's basically just not true.

Norwich? Huddersfield? Sheffield Utd? Cardiff? Burnley? 

Forest and Derby have spent shit-tons - and both Leeds and Preston are in the autos and top 6.

 

There's more than one way to skin a cat, and I'd certainly prefer we do it in a smart and sustainable way - maybe that's just me?

The word Manager jumps out with that list.

[AllRoverAsia]

I did not put that emoji in my post and due I think to the large space above the text I cannot edit it out.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

I did not put that emoji in my post and due I think to the large space above the text I cannot edit it out.

I think it works well there ?

[AllRoverAsia]

7 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think it works well there ?

1. I'm not too sure it works in my favour though and didn't want the poster I quoted to think I was having a go at him.

I'm having a be nice to people day 

Edit - I didn't type that '1' either FFS

Edited February 19, 2020 by AllRoverAsia

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

1. I'm not too sure it works in my favour though and didn't want the poster I quoted to think I was having a go at him.

I'm having a be nice to people day 

Edit - I didnt type that '1' either ffs

Do you watch Curb your enthusiasm? Larry ,the main character, has a look he does at people , reminds me of that. 

[Amo]

11 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yawn. 

Is it past your bedtime?

[jim mk2]

Brentford a good example of a "slow build". The club has been on the up for a few years thanks to good management. I wouldn't put us in their class though - they have very good people at the top with a clear sense of direction. 

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Do you watch Curb your enthusiasm? Larry ,the main character, has a look he does at people , reminds me of that. 

Not seen of it, I will look and try to ''find it'' 

[frosty]

10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Do you watch Curb your enthusiasm? Larry ,the main character, has a look he does at people , reminds me of that. 

One of the best shows going!

[Bigdoggsteel]

Larry is a legend. New series coming soon too. 

[AllRoverAsia]

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Larry is a legend. New series coming soon too. 

I've just obtained S10E05 as a first watch test.

Apologies for any Thread diversion, don't fret its a Slow Build

[Adam C]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Do you watch Curb your enthusiasm? Larry ,the main character, has a look he does at people , reminds me of that. 

Prettayyy prettayyyy prettayyy prettayyy good

[Adam C]

56 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Larry is a legend. New series coming soon too. 

New series is out now. Available for download in a legally dubious way or it is also being shown on sky Atlantic a few weeks behind. Some great jokes in this season which I’ll not spoil for you!
 

Curb is one of the best shows on TV, I hope you enjoy it @allroverasia. 

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Brentford a good example of a "slow build". The club has been on the up for a few years thanks to good management. I wouldn't put us in their class though - they have very good people at the top with a clear sense of direction. 

Yes, Brentford are an interesting comparison. The were promoted to the Championship in 2014 with Warburton as manager and in their first season they got in to the playoffs but didn't get promoted.

They then fired Warburton and replaced him with Dean Smith who was unable to get them in to the playoffs with them finishing around 9th or 10th until he left them last season for Aston Villa and was replaced by Franke who has them now in the playoffs position. 

Very much a slow build, and still not come to fruition with promotion to the Premier League. How many of the "Mowbray Out" brigade would be prepared to wait that long ?

[roversfan99]

20 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Yes, Brentford are an interesting comparison. The were promoted to the Championship in 2014 with Warburton as manager and in their first season they got in to the playoffs but didn't get promoted.

They then fired Warburton and replaced him with Dean Smith who was unable to get them in to the playoffs with them finishing around 9th or 10th until he left them last season for Aston Villa and was replaced by Franke who has them now in the playoffs position. 

Very much a slow build, and still not come to fruition with promotion to the Premier League. How many of the "Mowbray Out" brigade would be prepared to wait that long ?

I appreciate the the phrase "Mowbray out brigade" proves that you are just provoking and on the wind up but your comparison makes no sense. As you said, Brentford havent had the same manager all the way through so how can you compare? People wanted him out because at one point there were serious questions about the scope for progression under Mowbray, the big money twice thrown away created huge doubts and before the last international break we were looking no better than last season.