Summer Transfer Window

[Tugay's Right Foot]

4 hours ago, Mercer said:

So true.

Passed Tony in the car a couple of times recently whilst he's been out walking - now walking with the aid of a stick and a carer (I assume).  It's so very sad.

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Tugay's Right Foot

[G Somerset Rover]

Probably rollocks, but Tony’s dropped a big one either way: https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/12222563/arsenal-city-summer-transfer-brentford-raya/

[RevidgeBlue]

43 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

I’d even take Walton over Steele and I think he’s bloody useless!

I think Steele is a bit better than Walton but with either of them more or less every time the opposition attempt a shot on target it results in a goal.

[G Somerset Rover]

8 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I think Steele is a bit better than Walton but with either of them more or less every time the opposition attempt a shot on target it results in a goal.

It’s a close run thing. Both have hands made of poppadoms.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[tomphil]

25 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Probably rollocks, but Tony’s dropped a big one either way: https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/12222563/arsenal-city-summer-transfer-brentford-raya/

Let's hope they had the brains to include add ons in the deal if not the penny might drop in Pune when Balaji reads about that over his cornflakes.

Isn't that just the type of thing we are supposed to be doing ourselves ?  He'll be waiting for the ten million plus bids for Brereton and Gallagher instead no doubt.

[AJW]

30 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Probably rollocks, but Tony’s dropped a big one either way: https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/12222563/arsenal-city-summer-transfer-brentford-raya/

Can’t see it but , he has won Golden Gloves for championship this year and If Brentford don’t go up I could see a PL team taking a punt on him ... was there a sell on clause ???

Edited July 25, 2020 by AJW

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

You have to be realistic though when it comes to finances. We can't afford to have four Championship quality starting CBs on the books. Not without sacrificing squad depth elsewhere. 

I'd be happy with Lenihan, A.N. Other, Williams, Wharton and Carter as our CB 5. Carter being primed for a loan if the opportunity arises.

Backups on this team HAVE to come from the Academy. I think people both overestimate the quality of the Championship and underestimate the ability of our Academy graduates. 

The way a club like us gets out of this league is by having a quality first 11, on good wages, with MOST of the remaining 14 first team places taken up by cheap journeymen (as I don't trust our scouting network to find cheap prospects)  / Academy prospects.

Not to mention the m etrics of Wharton having gone away, winning promotion from L2, playing nearly 90 professional games by 22, and being told "thanks, but no thanks" are terrible. Why would you send your kid to Rovers if that's how they treat their graduates? We're in an absolute cloggers league, not the Premier League. He deserves a chance to fail. 

I think that's what I said. It's certainly what I meant.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[dingles staying down 4ever]

40 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Probably rollocks, but Tony’s dropped a big one either way: https://www.thesun.co.uk/sport/12222563/arsenal-city-summer-transfer-brentford-raya/

Didn't the coach that wanted Raya at Brentford move to Arsenal when Arteta became manager?

[G Somerset Rover]

2 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

Didn't the coach that wanted Raya at Brentford move to Arsenal when Arteta became manager?

Believe so. Probably where the rumours are coming from.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

According to someone I was speaking to this morning we're after Chris Brunt. Not for me personally as he's 36 in December but the source thought this was an indication we had no money.

Also if the source is correct Downing has been on very healthy money here indeed so I'd have thought he'd need to agree a massive cut to be here next season.

I'd steer clear of both personally.

Me too. Brunt's been a good player in the past but nothing is forever. I think it's time to go for Downing as well.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Rankin-Costello has looked OK playing out of position because our manager hasn't managed his squad / finances correctly and he's been asked to do a job there. I've seen enough of his passing and vision in the final third to suggest there's a player there. He's also one of those squad players I've alluded to - you can't pencil him in to the starting XI, but he's one of those cheap 14 players you have who come into the team during a two-game week or a cup run (or of course injuries). 

Carter should absolutely go out on loan to get senior games under his belt, but he didn't look as poor as some on here have suggested. We conceded 6 goals in 2 games with him playing at CB, but that was without the aid of a proper LB and an actual GK behind him. He's a big, strong, athletic player - we can't afford to throw those away because they're not the final product at 21.

Buckley isn't athletic enough to make it in this league as a CM - not with his current level of skill. He's going to get bullied every week. I don't think he's fast enough to play AML or AMR, so that leaves him fighting for Dack's role. He's worth keeping around to see if he develops as a cheap option. I'd argue Holtby is allowed to drift through games because of his 'pedigree' (3 caps for Germany, don't you know!).

Evans is an expensive squad player. Only consistently performs when it's contract re-negotiation time and isn't really anything more than a water carrier when he is on form. 

Downing isn't a CM - he doesn't have the vision or range of passing to pull the strings there, nor the tackling or positioning to break up attacks. I was fine with him as an option on the left hand side (AML or emergency LB), but I'd let him walk if the plan is to play him at CM. Especially considering he won't be cheap. 

 

We are reliant on our Academy, which is great - it's one of the few things that keeps me interested in this Rovers team. Where we need to make the jump is by a) settling on a formation and b) bringing in some proper senior pros for the starting XI at GK, LB, CB and CM (transfers or loans, I'm not fussed). We'd see a marked difference in the standard of play / results with those two things happening. 

My point is more that I think some (not aiming this at yourself) seem to see "being patient" as unwilling to accept any doubts, any criticism of individual performances from specific games, even if it is done constructively. 

Take Carter for example, I thought he looked well off v Luton, was ok v Reading despite the 3 goals, but not just the own goal, his passing, his dealing with the high balls, his positional play with the ball in behind, I thought he was a massive weak link. For me, thats not being impatient to say, it is from my opinion being honest about his individual performance and how I see him currently in terms of if hes able to contribute to a supposed promotion chasing side, or indeed at this level. If I said he will never make it etc, fair play, but I said loan out and see how he does.

You then look at Wharton, he broke through mid season, in a worse team, at a really tough time, and for me looked far more at home, but still probably a bit short. Centre back for me is a really difficult area to break through. Throw in 3 loans in League 2 where he will not only have developed physically and toughened up, but seemingly really impressed overall. When he broke through, I suspect although I didn't think he was out of his depth in the same way as Carter looked v Luton, 

With Rankin Costello, he definitely doesnt look out of place in the same way. Technically he looks fine, clearly not a full back, but he has been competent even if the praise has been at times over the top. 

I think for what its worth, considering that Dack will be back, that Holtby is more effective (even if he has been at times a drifter) as back up, we have Brereton and Gallagher who could play with Armstrong, I think the time Buckley would get would be minimal, he isnt a wide man either, he would benefit from a season in League 1.

I think you have been a little harsh on Evans, not in terms of his overall Rovers career, which has been disappointing and underwhelming in the most part. But statistically him and Travis together is a winning combination and I think he has had a good season when he has played.

Downing for me is better central as he doesnt have the pace to play wide anymore, and he does have the technical ability and can play on the half turn. That being said, defensively he is lacking. Can only play with Travis.

[Paul Mani]

2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

I think if you add all the wages up of the players who just left it should leave headroom for a couple of shrewd signings sub 10k per week.

I'm not sure he's getting much up front money off Venkys this time.

I agree. Must be £45-50k gone inc loanees.

But with Whiteman being in contract there must be a chunky fee attached to him? £1m at least? 

[roversfan99]

Interesting that pre season is 3 weeks away! Reckon we will have a budget by then?

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

According to someone I was speaking to this morning we're after Chris Brunt. Not for me personally as he's 36 in December but the source thought this was an indication we had no money.

Also if the source is correct Downing has been on very healthy money here indeed so I'd have thought he'd need to agree a massive cut to be here next season.

I'd steer clear of both personally.

Well he was on 33k at Boro so no way was he coming here for ten grand pwk i said it at the time some of our fans are very naive when it comes to wages.  Getting him was the real reason imo Mowbray decided to pass on Bauer and put all the money into Downing.

Again to me although Downing turned out quite well it was still the wrong move and looks so now. Guys like him at 20 grand plus per week are luxury signings. The final piece of the jigsaw to help push you over the line but that was never going to be the case here. It was another of TMs starry eyed punts because all the bits added up behind the scenes.  Now we are a million quid lighter and still nowhere near the play offs.

 

[roversfan99]

[Paul Mani]

4 hours ago, 47er said:

Then it would seem to be a very small one!

Why? What have you heard? The only thing I’ve heard that has any credibility is the link to Whiteman, a 22yr old captain of his club who’d demand a 7 figure fee.

If anything, I’m pleasantly surprised. Wish it was a CB but it certainly doesn’t suggest we’re shopping in the bargain basement? 

[Scotland1]

Just get him out get him out don’t give him a bean this window!

[Dreams of 1995]

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

My point is more that I think some (not aiming this at yourself) seem to see "being patient" as unwilling to accept any doubts, any criticism of individual performances from specific games, even if it is done constructively. 

Take Carter for example, I thought he looked well off v Luton, was ok v Reading despite the 3 goals, but not just the own goal, his passing, his dealing with the high balls, his positional play with the ball in behind, I thought he was a massive weak link. For me, thats not being impatient to say, it is from my opinion being honest about his individual performance and how I see him currently in terms of if hes able to contribute to a supposed promotion chasing side, or indeed at this level. If I said he will never make it etc, fair play, but I said loan out and see how he does.

You then look at Wharton, he broke through mid season, in a worse team, at a really tough time, and for me looked far more at home, but still probably a bit short. Centre back for me is a really difficult area to break through. Throw in 3 loans in League 2 where he will not only have developed physically and toughened up, but seemingly really impressed overall. When he broke through, I suspect although I didn't think he was out of his depth in the same way as Carter looked v Luton, 

With Rankin Costello, he definitely doesnt look out of place in the same way. Technically he looks fine, clearly not a full back, but he has been competent even if the praise has been at times over the top. 

I think for what its worth, considering that Dack will be back, that Holtby is more effective (even if he has been at times a drifter) as back up, we have Brereton and Gallagher who could play with Armstrong, I think the time Buckley would get would be minimal, he isnt a wide man either, he would benefit from a season in League 1.

I think you have been a little harsh on Evans, not in terms of his overall Rovers career, which has been disappointing and underwhelming in the most part. But statistically him and Travis together is a winning combination and I think he has had a good season when he has played.

Downing for me is better central as he doesnt have the pace to play wide anymore, and he does have the technical ability and can play on the half turn. That being said, defensively he is lacking. Can only play with Travis.

What does this even mean brah? There's a huge difference between being unwilling to accept doubts and disagreeing with them doubts. You continuously make these claims about how youth players are talked up on here, but perhaps the difference is just that other fans of the club don't see their performances in the same way you see them. I must have seen half a dozen posts from you in the days since the Luton game which has made this similar type of claim. Yet, I haven't seen any post which has just blatantly tossed aside the "doubts" or criticisms of some of the performances of our younger lads, only an understanding that with age comes the potential for a mistake. An understanding that you overlook - which is a faulty logic because when others compare them to players more of their stature in academy games you dismiss it as totally irrelevant. In this respect the young lads can't win because they can't be judged as youngsters, as that level is too low for you, but can't have any mitigation in senior performances on the basis of their age or experience. Essentially you are setting them up to lose.

There will be many that disagree with your assessments of players performances but that doesn't make them unwilling to see your doubts. I've said this to you before - it stinks of self importance that you think an individual poster (you are clearly referring to posters on here) disagreeing with you is an unwilling to accept "real" doubts. They are your doubts, not everybody else's.

As an end to this I think you are wholly unfair in your critique of Buckley, JRC and Carter, but what I won't accuse you of is an unwilling to accept facts because my view on them three are as subjective as yours. What are your doubts aren't mine and visa versa, but I'd wish you'd stop with this self glorifying of your own opinions and how they should be accepted as absolute fact when discussing them lads. 

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Dreams of 1995

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

What does this even mean brah? There's a huge difference between being unwilling to accept doubts and disagreeing with them doubts. You continuously make these claims about how youth players are talked up on here, but perhaps the difference is just that other fans of the club don't see their performances in the same way you see them. I must have seen half a dozen posts from you in the days since the Luton game which has made this similar type of claim. Yet, I haven't seen any post which has just blatantly tossed aside the "doubts" or criticisms of some of the performances of our younger lads, only an understanding that with age comes the potential for a mistake. An understanding that you overlook - which is a faulty logic because when others compare them to players more of their stature in academy games you dismiss it as totally irrelevant. In this respect the young lads can't win because they can't be judged as youngsters, as that level is too low for you, but can't have any mitigation in senior performances on the basis of their age or experience. Essentially you are setting them up to lose.

There will be many that disagree with your assessments of players performances but that doesn't make them unwilling to see your doubts. I've said this to you before - it stinks of self importance that you think an individual poster (you are clearly referring to posters on here) disagreeing with you is an unwilling to accept "real" doubts. They are your doubts, not everybody else's.

As an end to this I think you are wholly unfair in your critique of Buckley, JRC and Carter, but what I won't accuse you of is an unwilling to accept facts because my view on them three are as subjective as yours. What are your doubts aren't mine and visa versa, but I'd wish you'd stop with this self glorifying of your own opinions and how they should be accepted as absolute fact when discussing them lads. 

 

Fair enough. I feel at times that youngsters performance are bigged up or if negative, dismissed purely because they are young. But I cannot argue with your post.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Fair enough. I feel at times that youngsters performance are bigged up or if negative, dismissed purely because they are young. But I cannot argue with your post.

Issues also occur with former youth players who are now first team players at the club. Nyambe, Travis and Lenihan for example are all protected BIG TIME by the supporter base. Huge mistakes go un-berated, but mistakes from a Rothwell or a Bell are simply not acceptable.

Trav was completely at fault for Leeds' first goal at Ewood recently, barely a word was spoken. Lenihan had a shocker against Reading IMO, especially their second goal, but again practically un-noted by the general consensus of the fans. Nyambe can't cross a football and seems dizzy when he enters the final third, but nobody seems to really care - some seem to think that he's a Premier League right back... Bell has very similar flaws but is constantly lambasted online and in the stands.

[LDRover]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Already explain the reasons why I unsure on him having a contract next season. 

You basically said what we've all said - that he played well pre lockdown and poor post lockdown. Then you said we'd have to see how he performs 'next' season!! 

So, go on, form an opinion on whether we should give him a deal rather than waiting to agree with whatever the club decides.

[Dreams of 1995]

4 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Issues also occur with former youth players who are now first team players at the club. Nyambe, Travis and Lenihan for example are all protected BIG TIME by the supporter base. Huge mistakes go un-berated, but mistakes from a Rothwell or a Bell are simply not acceptable.

Trav was completely at fault for Leeds' first goal at Ewood recently, barely a word was spoken. Lenihan had a shocker against Reading IMO, especially their second goal, but again practically un-noted by the general consensus of the fans. Nyambe can't cross a football and seems dizzy when he enters the final third, but nobody seems to really care - some seem to think that he's a Premier League right back... Bell has very similar flaws but is constantly lambasted online and in the stands.

Bullshit.

Individual mistakes like you have mentioned are weighed together with overall performances. Travis, Lenihan and Nyambe as a collective have given far more positive performances than mistakes. Bell on the other hand simply hasn't shown enough good performances to outweigh his mistakes.

Just because people are not quick to jump on here and throw shade similar to your view on Nyambe doesn't mean they don't recognise the mistakes.

It's a very weird movement on here at the moment that sees the need to round on any individual error with full gusto, and then moan when others don't do the same.

Edited July 25, 2020 by Dreams of 1995

[joey_big_nose]

Just now, JoeH said:

Issues also occur with former youth players who are now first team players at the club. Nyambe, Travis and Lenihan for example are all protected BIG TIME by the supporter base. Huge mistakes go un-berated, but mistakes from a Rothwell or a Bell are simply not acceptable.

Trav was completely at fault for Leeds' first goal at Ewood recently, barely a word was spoken. Lenihan had a shocker against Reading IMO, especially their second goal, but again practically un-noted by the general consensus of the fans. Nyambe can't cross a football and seems dizzy when he enters the final third, but nobody seems to really care - some seem to think that he's a Premier League right back... Bell has very similar flaws but is constantly lambasted online and in the stands.

This is totally fair I think. But there is a logic behind it. Nyambe has had a lot more good games than Bell, and Travis and Lenihan have had a lot more good games than Rothwell.

It kind of works like a bank account. Players build up their credit by having good performances. Then you can "afford" a few bad ones.

When you go deep in the red (like say Brereton) you have a hell of lot to do to recover.

It changes over time as well. Look at this forum three years ago and everyone was generally very positive about Bennett. Now he is a pariah increasingly disliked by the fan base for his poor performances.  Not really his fault - he's getting on and played absurdly out of his position - but there it is. Such is life. 

[Guest]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Bullshit.

How elegantly worded  Just my opinion dude.

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, JoeH said:

How elegantly worded  Just my opinion dude.

So was mine

Bullshit isn't meant to be an elegant word, but just what men say to each other in conversations if they disagree on something

No insult, no harm done, just a word