Summer Transfer Window

[Guest]

Here's a Ben Whiteman version of the Hartherz thing posted before also. Interesting comparison but a league below so trying not to let all the green make me go "HOLY CRAP". 

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Not a huge fan of Wharton. I don't personally believe he should start for us, but I moreover don't feel that we should spend £2-4m on a centre back. We don't have much of a budget and my personal opinion is that a 5 at the back system, using what we already have, and using our budget in other areas would be more beneficial. 

Just my view.

I doubt we will be spending that sort of money on anyone. But you would be happy going in to a season with Lenihan, Williams, Wharton and Nyambe (at CB!) as our centre back options so long as we play 3 of them at any one time?

[Guest]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I doubt we will be spending that sort of money on anyone. But you would be happy going in to a season with Lenihan, Williams, Wharton and Nyambe (at CB!) as our centre back options so long as we play 3 of them at any one time?

I'd rather go into the season with what we have than spend £3m on somebody like Moore yes, who has no better experience than the players we have and was playing League One football for Blackpool for half of last season.

If that £3m went on the wages of a Tosin, or on a Premier League experienced centre back on a free, then were talking. IMO.

And if we did have to go into the season with only what we have, then yes, I'd prefer to have a fifth defender to cover for the fact we haven't got a great CB pairing.

Edited July 27, 2020 by JoeH

[JacknOry]

Just now, JoeH said:

I'm fully aware of your opinion. You've been telling me for over an hour. I think there's definitely a strong argument to say forget about the jargon, just spend a few million on the defence. I don't not agree with that.

Matey I'm simply giving my opinion back! I'm not being rude or trying to diminish you in any way. It's just a discussion okay? I really need you to get that because in no way am I trying to do anything than have discussion.

 

Seems the opposite. Trying to shut down the discussion by dismissing it so condecendingly.

[LeftWinger]

15 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Back to transfer rumours, the Hartherz link has gone fairly unspoken about, I've done some data analysis and compared him with Amari'i Bell for this season. Interesting finds, it shows Bell's inferiority comes in the form of attacking, creating chances and getting involved with key attacking plays. 

Very difficult to compare these stats when they are in different divisions playing for teams at different positions in the league, but I'd be concerned if Bell was classed as the better of the two defensively. I think my nan is better defensively than Bell (although she's not left footed, so probably not an option).

[Guest]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Seems the opposite. Trying to shut down the discussion by dismissing it so condecendingly.

I'm stating my opinion pal. If you find that condescending then I really don't know why you'd still converse with me. I'm not dismissing you at all, I just disagree with you, something that not only should I be entitled to do, but is fairly normal for a messageboard. I don't think Moore's a great option, you do, I hear your points, you've heard mine?

It's just a conversation. I've been none more so or less so dismissive of you than you have been of me.

("Pal" is genuinely sincere, seeing as my tone is hard to grasp! I'm genuinely trying to be friendly)

Edited July 27, 2020 by JoeH

[Guest]

Just now, LeftWinger said:

Very difficult to compare these stats when they are in different divisions playing for teams at different positions in the league, but I'd be concerned if Bell was classed as the better of the two defensively. I think my nan is better defensively than Bell (although she's not left footed, so probably not an option).

Yeah, I think the fact that Hartherz team won the league probably marrs it, but yes, not convincing when Bell has better defensive stats.

[RoversClitheroe]

31 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Derrick Williams has more Championship experience than Moore, is already part of the club/wage structure, already knows the lads - and to me, there's not much evidence to suggest that spending £2-4m on somebody else would produce fruits much more ripe than him...

In my opinion. In no way trying to be "rude".

Derrick Williams is absolutely awful.

Having watched every game for the past 3 seasons he's a complete liability. 

LB CB whatever he's not good enough. A lower half Championship defender maybe even league 1. 

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Why you upped it to 3 mil. I said a couple mil will probably get him.

Yeah that's my bad. I keep using £2-4m, because having researched him before, I don't think we'd get him at £2m, he's got a great youth CV and at 23 won't come cheap at all I don't reckon. I think he's out of our price range IMO but as you say you could take the option of spending a majority of the budget on defenders - which is a perfectly reasonable action to believe in. 

[RoversClitheroe]

Just now, JoeH said:

Yeah, I think the fact that Hartherz team won the league probably marrs it, but yes, not convincing when Bell has better defensive stats.

Stats mean absolutely nothing when there's zero context. 

In terms of the pace of the league, style of play in the league's etc etc.

[roversfan99]

Just now, JoeH said:

I'd rather go into the season with what we have than spend £3m on somebody like Moore yes, who has no better experience than the players we have and was playing League One football for Blackpool for half of last season.

If that £3m went on the wages of a Tosin, or on a Premier League experienced centre back on a free, then were talking. IMO.

We need to bring in a centre back, not one that can stroll out like Rio Ferdinand necessarily, but one who can help keep clean sheets. Evidence is there that you can pick up Championship defenders for cheap or indeed for free at times if you look hard enough.

What I cant fathom out is how you arent seeing bringing in CBs as critical. We only have one competent one! We have a younger one who has done well on loan but the question mark is he can he play at Championship level, a bog standard good League 1 player (who usually plays at LB) and a full back who cant head a ball. I think you are under the illusion that if we played 3 CBs it could make up for a lack of quality but it doesnt work like that.

Not seen much of Moore at Bristol City or Blackpool but if hes 3m plus I suspect we can forget that one anyway. That being said, 2 of my previous examples were Curtis Nelson and Patrick Bauer, 2 players signed from League 1, and 2 proper defenders.

It might be a job for the supposed European scouting network, or assuming thats all hot air, it most likely will be reliant on loans. The 2 CBs that stand out on frees are Ayala, who I doubt we could attract/afford the wages of and is injury prone but is a top Championship defender, and Lockyer at Charlton who I have seen for Wales too and seemed solid enough, but hes been in a side at the bottom letting in goals.

The frustration is we could now have Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan, Bauer and if he had stayed fit only had to make Cunninghams deal permanent this summer to give us a solid defence. We have to fill 3 positions now.

[Guest]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

What I cant fathom out is how you arent seeing bringing in CBs as critical

It IS critical. But spending too much money on an unproven one is not my cup of tea.

Much prefer your Ayala suggestion.

Edited July 27, 2020 by JoeH

[roversfan99]

Just now, JoeH said:

It IS critical. But spending too much money on an unproven one is not my cup of tea.

Much prefer your Ayala suggestion.

I dont thinking spending much money would be an option full stop. But we have to sign a centre back, just playing more including converted CBs will only end badly. Until we are robust we will never meet our targets.

[Guest]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Until we are robust we will never meet our targets.

I agree, I'm trying to be realistic. I am not expecting Tosin to be replaced because I know what this club and the people incharge here right now are like. My 5ATB suggestions are worst case scenario, nobody else signs this summer.

[islander200]

28 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Seems the opposite. Trying to shut down the discussion by dismissing it so condecendingly.

Knock him out

Fight Fight Fight

(Joking Joe)

[Swanson]

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Derrick Williams has more Championship experience than Moore, is already part of the club/wage structure, already knows the lads - and to me, there's not much evidence to suggest that spending £2-4m on somebody else would produce fruits much more ripe than him...

In my opinion. In no way trying to be "rude".

Worst player at the club.  Total carp

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Swanson said:

Snooze we lose.

[JacknOry]

Why spend 2 million on a L1 midfieder when we have championship midfielders with more experience at the club?

Not to mention we have 300 midfieders already and many more pressing concerns that need addressing in the team.

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Why spend 2 million on a L1 midfieder when we have championship midfielders with more experience at the club?

Not to mention we have 300 midfieders already and many more pressing concerns that need addressing in the team.

He is better than all our midfield and for 2m its a bargain believe me. And we have been tracking him for 18 months, big fail on Mowbray part if we don't secure him.

[RoversClitheroe]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

He is better than all our midfield and for 2m its a bargain believe me. And we have been tracking him for 18 months, big fail on Mowbray part if we don't secure him.

How did the meeting go? Said you were going to find out how it went etc? 

[roversfan99]

39 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I agree, I'm trying to be realistic. I am not expecting Tosin to be replaced because I know what this club and the people incharge here right now are like. My 5ATB suggestions are worst case scenario, nobody else signs this summer.

I think Mowbray has said that replacing Adarabioyo (and calamity Walton) is a priority so I am sure he will. 

[JacknOry]

1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

He is better than all our midfield and for 2m its a bargain believe me. And we have been tracking him for 18 months, big fail on Mowbray part if we don't secure him.

Not against the signing in isolation - the first sentence was tongue in cheek. 2 million on a midfielder when we need other positions is my issue. If it means we have a decent budget remaining to fill our main priorities then fine...if its this guy and then feebie/loan defenders and a goalie, dont like it.

Better than our entire midfield is some statement. Not sure I can believe it but hope you are right (if we finally put a bid in and convince him to join).

Edited July 27, 2020 by JacknOry

[Sparks Rover]

What is galling, we could have had him for nowt last season with lower wages than we will end up paying him if he does sign.  

Should have an update later this afternoon 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Sparks Rover

[Waggy76]

I sense another McGinn calamity by Mowbray !!