Summer Transfer Window

[roversfan99]

Totally agree that stats like this are of limited us and to totally dismiss him out of hand as "no better than" Wharton is an unfair conclusion to come to without seeing him play,

https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/hes-not-just-goode-hes-great-skipper-charlie-your-cobblers-player-year-2917874

He seems to have easily won player of the season there and you have to think, what is more valid, the opinion of fans who have seen him all season or just statistics?

Obviously when you start analysing them across divisions it makes them even less of a barometer.

That being said, I dont think we will spend a 7 figure sum on anyone, it seems like an agent driven story with every club in the league almost linked with him.

[tomphil]

What have they got against Wharton here i wonder ?  Is he too local for the little cartels liking or something ?

Edited August 3, 2020 by tomphil

[JacknOry]

Just now, tomphil said:

What have they got against Wharton here i wonder ?  Is he too local for the little cartels liking or something ?

I have been reading the Lincoln and Northampton forums and he has greatly impressed at both clubs. Praised for his attitude, reading of the game, for being a goal threat in set plays and the fact he is a left footed CB. Either get him in the squad, send him off to L1 or get rid if he is not deemed good enough.

[Guest]

6 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Totally agree that stats like this are of limited us and to totally dismiss him out of hand as "no better than" Wharton is an unfair conclusion to come to without seeing him play,

 https://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/football/hes-not-just-goode-hes-great-skipper-charlie-your-cobblers-player-year-2917874

He seems to have easily won player of the season there and you have to think, what is more valid, the opinion of fans who have seen him all season or just statistics?

Obviously when you start analysing them across divisions it makes them even less of a barometer.

That being said, I dont think we will spend a 7 figure sum on anyone, it seems like an agent driven story with every club in the league almost linked with him.

I must say I am shocked  It's not like you at all to disagree with me!

Of course supporter opinions matter, I would never deny that. However, the simple fact is that Goode can be as good as you like, the data shows Wharton is as good as him, if not better in certain areas. Whilst I won't deny Goode has had a good year in League Two, it is the opinion of yourself and other posters that Scott Wharton has had a good year in that division too. 

I just firmly believe that to spend money from a small budget on a player like that when we have a very similar player in our ranks would be a silly decision in my opinion. The chances that Scott Wharton succeeds in the Championship are basically the same chances that Charlie Goode has of succeeding in the Championship... one belongs to us, has a two year advantage on the other and is home grown, the other would cost 7-figures, is two years older and isn't home grown either. 

Then you've got the huge factor of having a left-footed centre-back playing in your LCB slot, rather than a right footed one. It's great for the passing game of the team, because unless you have a Tosin who possesses unusual passing and dribbling abilities for the Championship, players struggle to play on the "wrong side" these days.

I have criticised the suggestion that Scott Wharton is ready to start for us, but I will absolutely defend the fact that he has just as much of a chance of doing well at Blackburn Rovers does than his older centre-back partner from this season at Northampton, and it would be silly to waste budget when one is already a Rovers contracted player.

(I would criticise Andy Fisher being our number one next year but it makes more sense for him to be Number One than buying his former teammate David Cornell)

Edited August 3, 2020 by JoeH

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

and to totally dismiss him

I'm dismissing the financial sensibility of the deal - not the player. The player clearly has some talent.

It's much more financially viable to pick up a Ben Heneghan type on a free who has League One and Scottish Prem experience, for cheaper price and with a better resume. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by JoeH

[JacknOry]

Ideally, we need a couple of CB's so who is to say this guy and Wharton are both being considered for the squad next season? 

Either way, we never spend money on the defense unless its 300k odd, so not buying this anyway.  

[Tugayisgod]

Just now, JoeH said:

I'm dismissing the financial sensibility of the deal - not the player. The player clearly has some talent.

It's much more financially viable to pick up a Ben Heneghan type on a free who has League One and Scottish Prem experience, for cheaper price and with a better resume. 

Just a thought, but both Wharton and Goode played in a defence  which played with  a back 3, with Wharton on the left of the 3.

Just wondering how difficult it is to adapt to playing in a back 4 from a back 3? 

 

 

[Richard Oakley]

I think it more likely that Preston buy Goode for a million and Northampton spend that buying Wharton.

[Exiled_Rover]

35 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

It'll be even more silly when he finds we want to use him as a right winger ?

Defend from the front.

[Mattyblue]

If everything was done with data there would be no scouts. 

Of course data plays a pivotal role in the modern game, Brentford run a successful operation with an analysis based approach, but seasoned coaches/managers/scouts ‘spot’ talent with their eye; the player has a strut, he’s a leader on the pitch, seemingly more time than others on the ball, a composure, a great attitude, even if the stats of a particular player when it comes to ‘numbers of interceptions’ etc aren’t anything to write home about.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Mattyblue

[alex l]

Opinions aside on who is better, it is too obvious to suggest Wharton is used as a make weight either on loan or permanent as part of this deal?  Given they seem to want him back, we must be on pole position if other clubs are interested. 

[BG1492]

I’ve never watched this Goode play but to just rule players out based on stats seems daft.

Two centre halves can be totally different players & can bring different things to a team. 

[BG1492]

& please don’t mention heneghan again, he’s bobbins.

[Miker]

31 minutes ago, JoeH said:

For some comparison, here's Tosin and Lenihan compared with Wharton and Goode (bearing in mind the former two are playing in a significantly higher division against tougher opposition).

Appreciate you doing the analysis but those graphs are pretty misleading. 

You’ve got the bars for Wharton set to intervals of 10, while Lenihan is 20, and Tosin and Goode are 25. It makes it look like Wharton is far better in the stats than he actually is.

[roversfan99]

17 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I must say I am shocked  It's not like you at all to disagree with me!

Of course supporter opinions matter, I would never deny that. However, the simple fact is that Goode can be as good as you like, the data shows Wharton is as good as him, if not better in certain areas. Whilst I won't deny Goode has had a good year in League Two, it is the opinion of yourself and other posters that Scott Wharton has had a good year in that division too. 

I just firmly believe that to spend money from a small budget on a player like that when we have a very similar player in our ranks would be a silly decision in my opinion. The chances that Scott Wharton succeeds in the Championship are basically the same chances that Charlie Goode has of succeeding in the Championship... one belongs to us, has a two year advantage on the other and is home grown, the other would cost 7-figures, is two years older and isn't home grown either. 

Then you've got the huge factor of having a left-footed centre-back playing in your LCB slot, rather than a right footed one. It's great for the passing game of the team, because unless you have a Tosin who possesses unusual passing and dribbling abilities for the Championship, players struggle to play on the "wrong side" these days.

I have criticised the suggestion that Scott Wharton is ready to start for us, but I will absolutely defend the fact that he has just as much of a chance of doing well at Blackburn Rovers does than his older centre-back partner from this season at Northampton, and it would be silly to waste budget when one is already a Rovers contracted player.

(I would criticise Andy Fisher being our number one next year but it makes more sense for him to be Number One than buying his former teammate David Cornell)

 

13 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I'm dismissing the financial sensibility of the deal - not the player. The player clearly has some talent.

It's much more financially viable to pick up a Ben Heneghan type on a free who has League One and Scottish Prem experience, for cheaper price and with a better resume. 

You seem to be using the data for select things as matter of fact that Wharton is a better player at the moment as Goode. Ive not seen either player this season (I presume you are the same) so to just use data is incredibly flawed. The fact that Goode is out on his own in terms of Northamptons player of the season suggests that the fans who watch him every week think that he was their best player. 

My basis for potentially having Wharton around is not with any certainty on his ability. I just think we have one competent centre back, then we have an injury prone and not very good Derrick Williams, and an out of favour and past it Mulgrew. We also have Carter who lookee well off at this moment. The main difference is that any centre back coming in will need to slot into the first team, the potential expectation of Wharton would be to be a squad player. Ultimately his advantage is that he is already ours as you say.

Im not doing it to be contrarion either. I share your opinion that signing a League 2 player to fill the void that we need as a partner for Lenihan is a big risk. Also the fee will be beyond us. But you are using these stats as total fact of the matter im absence of watching them regularly. Its not a fact, underlined and in bold that Wharton is better.

I also think that Ben Heneghan didnt really pull up trees at Blackpool. 

[4000Holes]

I think the most pressing need as a left sided back 4 (left back in old money).  That will prevent central defenders being pulled out of position to cover and will make whoever is playing in that position better.  If the worst comes to the worst Lenihan Wharton, Carter and dare I say Mulgrew can cover but not if they keep being pulled to cover the opposition attacks on their right wing leaving gaping holes in the middle.

just my opinion.

[tomphil]

Perhaps one showed more leadership qualities than the other at Northampton.

In any case i'd expect a straight swap will be the offer from the Blackburn end of things.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, alex l said:

Opinions aside on who is better, it is too obvious to suggest Wharton is used as a make weight either on loan or permanent as part of this deal?  Given they seem to want him back, we must be on pole position if other clubs are interested. 

I'd rather see our own player, Wharton, given a chance here rather than be used as a make weight in a deal without ever seeing the light of day here Jack O Connell style.

[USABlue]

On 01/08/2020 at 13:20, Atko's Engine said:

Yeah, Butterworth really seemed promising, I hope his injury doesn't derail his progress.

JRC I like, have heard a lot more good stuff about his U23s performances. I'm not sure he's what you'd call creative though from what I've seen, in terms of unlocking tight defences. Dack, Holtby, Buckley & Rothwell all have that in their locker.

JRC I like too.  He us being played at fullback which if I understand correctly is not his preferred position.  If you can imagine Mowbary would play players out of their strongest position.

[Paul Mani]

5 hours ago, Swanson said:

I saw the name Kelleher from Liverpool mentioned on Twitter, could he be a possibility ?

Not one I’ve heard.

[AJW]

Lee Camp??? 35 years old now but a steady pair of Gloves alongside a younger Keeper perhaps ?

[roversfan99]

Just now, AJW said:

Lee Camp??? 35 years old now but a steady pair of Gloves alongside a younger Keeper perhaps ?

Hes anything but steady.

[RoversClitheroe]

4 minutes ago, AJW said:

Lee Camp??? 35 years old now but a steady pair of Gloves alongside a younger Keeper perhaps ?

Woeful keeper.

[roversfan99]

Ive seen us linked with Keiran OHara a few times on here. Some of his finest work here 50 seconds in plus for the last goal. Hes also amidst a 6 match ban for biting someone!

Obviously amidst plenty of agent and supposed ITK driven rumours, I wonder when we will hear about 1 player we definitely are interested in, Stewart Downing?

Edited August 3, 2020 by roversfan99

[chaddyrovers]

17 hours ago, bluebruce said:

25 not 24, but yeh a good age for a goalie. Should easily have 10 years or more left in him, and likely get better over the next 5 or so.

From that video...not too many I'd put in the 'just wow' category, and I'd say most of them I'd expect Walton to have stopped too. But a few that I think you'd rarely or never see from Walton.

Looks a bit like he has a tendency to parry when he could catch, but that's a modern keeper's disease. A lot of these were pretty much straight at him, and I find saves like that to be overrated, but some he came out well for, some good intentional parries on them (as opposed to it being blasted right at him, which I find it bizarre when a keeper gets praise for) and looks good at stopping them with his feet, which I think is an underrated keeping skill. It bugs me when I see a keeper beaten because they tried to get down to something they could have stopped with their feet.

Only a highlights reel but overall I'm feeling fine about it if we get him at the right price. The real measure of a goalie is in their consistency though, and it's promising he got player of the season for Charlton, a team who I'm sure spent much of the season under the cosh. 65 goals conceded, only 2 more than us despite being 15 points lower.

I wonder what a likely fee would be. A few suitors, and Charlton clearly rate him, but they just got relegated, have financial issues, and Phillips has a year left on his deal with no intention to extend apparently. Plus the current financial climate. A million with a sell-on?

It also occurs to me that TM said his preference is for an experienced, older stopper, and a younger one to learn from them. I doubt Phillips wants to be the understudy.

And just read this: Only Millwall's Bartosz Bialkowski recorded a higher save percentage than the Addicks 'keeper

That sounds good to me! Sign him up.

Here on Rovers Chat discussing different keepers stats and names. Good watch. https://twitter.com/rovers_chat/status/1290318159992553483?s=20

It mentions on there about his saves ratio and other stats. Look impressive the video you posted just unsure we can pay that fee currently. Was impressive with his quick footwork and not like Walton's footwork which is awful IMO. 

Yes supposedly has 4 or 5 championship teams chasing him so we will see. 

 

9 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

City helped us out a lot with Tosin who the manager said is on double our top earner there.

I can see Man City willing to loan us 1 or 2 players and helping us pay the wages due to the way play Adarabioyo and the playing time we given him. Wouldn't be surprise if we loan 1 or 2 players from Man City

5 hours ago, Madon said:

Elliott Bennett has put on Instagram that he's moving house after 5 years and a new chapter awaits.... 

Potentially interesting?

Well considering he lives in the Midlands, it isn't big news really

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Goalkeeper is the worst place to get a kid on loan because obviously he will be more prone to mistakes, which of course cost us and then give back his parent club a better player. With Raya we had a goalkeeper who made mistakes but he was ours at least to develop.

 

Rotherham have loaned a keeper each of the last 2 season with Rodak in the 18/19 season who is now Fulham number 1 and in the 19/20 season Daniel Iversen. So its worked for them. 

I suggested Iversen and Muric last week as possible options if we do go down the loan route.