Summer Transfer Window

[tomphil]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

More of a tangent than you making comparisons between young homegrown players and seasoned professionals? ?

The top and bottom of it is that there’s really nothing to see. The most annoying thing about Wharton is why keep giving him a new deal? 

How do seasoned pros become seasoned pros though.........?

I suppose if they know they can loan him out then it's covered they did the same with Hart. Maybe Wharton only turns out to be lge 1 standard but so were the seasoned pros we've mentioned.  All signed for lhe 1 to be fair but all had a chance at this level.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, tomphil said:

How do seasoned pros become seasoned pros though.........?

I suppose if they know they can loan him out then it's covered they did the same with Hart. Maybe Wharton only turns out to be lge 1 standard but so were the seasoned pros we've mentioned.  All signed for lhe 1 to be fair but all had a chance at this level.

They didn’t trust him, even when they were in League 1...what does that say? 

[Mercer]

7 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Game of opinions. The manager obviously doesn’t think some of those are crap and that Wharton is...? 

and that's why, IMO, Mowbray needs firing.

[tomphil]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

They didn’t trust him, even when they were in League 1...what does that say? 

It says he was a few years less experienced then he was behind Lenihen and never going to oust people like Mulgrew.  I certainly wouldn't hold that against him. They've farmed him out to get games and experience and that's what he's done so you'd think especially in our situ he'd be ready for a squad spot here for a season or half at least.

If they really don't rate him surely they'd have let him go a while ago.

[Paul Mani]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

It says he was a few years less experienced then he was behind Lenihen and never going to oust people like Mulgrew.  I certainly wouldn't hold that against him. They've farmed him out to get games and experience and that's what he's done so you'd think especially in our situ he'd be ready for a squad spot here for a season or half at least.

If they really don't rate him surely they'd have let him go a while ago.

I just think he’s not quite got ‘it’. Must be doing enough to get contract extensions but obv not good enough to break through. Interesting also that he keeps getting teams out of league 2 but they never take him in League 1...It’s no coincidence, he’s just not good enough lads. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Paul Mani

[Paul Mani]

3 minutes ago, Mercer said:

and that's why, IMO, Mowbray needs firing.

Cheers ??

[chaddyrovers]

50 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I reckon the City link has great potential. They obv have a great relationship with our lot and I agree that they’ll be happy with Tosin. Played a lot of games in his best position.

Yes I do aswell. 

36 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont know where this sudden obsession with Iversen has come from, he isnt a name that I have seen elsewhere, but ultimately he was playing in League 1 which is as we know not of the same standard. And I have never doubted that Iversen or indeed any of these young goalkeepers have ability, of course they do. I dont know how much of Rotherham you get to see but I cant say that I have seen much of him, so I am not rubbishing him individually. 

Firstly, it isn't any obsession on Iversen, just simply pointing that his record of playing 2 years of first team football and represented his country at all levels up to under 21 level and as been in Danish main squad. I've seen clips of him from highlights and 1 video but I not enough to formed a proper opinion, But clubs arent going to give him a 5 and half years to a player if he hasn't got talent and potential. Did you disagree? 

37 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Do you not agree at all with my sentiments? That goalkeeper is possibly the worst position to sign an untested kid on loan? Would you prefer more experience in a goalkeeping position ideally if at all possible, or at least if it is a younger goalkeeper, one on a long term deal that we can develop to our benefit, as was the case with Raya? Or would you actively prefer a young loanee?

No I don't. Cos Its for some clubs like Huddersfield with Ward, Swansea with Woodman or Rotherham with Rodak or Iversen. of course for some clubs it doesnt work like us last season with Walton. 

I prefer the best man for the job within our budget is whether its a loan, free or cheap fee. Like Josh Boswell posted before and Mowbray has said himself that you are working on different lists so you might have to a player on list B for the keeper position but a player on List A for centre back position. If you have watched Rovers Chat link I posted about some keepers options it gives some foreign names and thats I don't know much about. Have you watch it?

37 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Huddersfield had to persist with Grabara until January, obviously not to their benefit, until they could desperately bring back Lossl.

Huddersfield had a different manager when they signed Grabara on loan. Also Huddersfield had Danny Ward on loan who was their 1st choice keeper when they got promoted

[tomphil]

8 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I just think he’s not quite got ‘it’. Must be doing enough to get contract extensions but obv not good enough to break through. Interesting also that he keeps getting teams out of league 2 but they never take him in League 1...It’s no coincidence, he’s just not good enough lads. 

That could be down to allsorts of factors.

As far as fans are concerned he's 22 he's a local lad and they'd like to see what he can do but from outside looking in it seems old Tone is having one of his stubborm moments again here.

Like i said if they sign a couple of decent one's fair enough but as it stands he should have a look in as back up. 

[Ewood Ace]

35 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

They didn’t trust him, even when they were in League 1...what does that say? 

Travis wasn't trusted when we were in League 1. So what does that say?

For a long time Bennett was trusted at full back over Nyambe. What does that say?

Harrison Reed wasn't trusted in the centre of midfield over Evans or Smallwood. What does that say?

To me it says that we have a manager who cannot spot talented players when they are right in front of him.

Edited August 3, 2020 by Ewood Ace

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

Travis wasn't trusted when we were in League 1 either. So what does that say?

Travis was coming through into the 1st squad but his sending off at Portsmouth cost him his place. 

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Travis was coming through into the 1st squad but his sending off at Portsmouth cost him his place. 

My point exactly he wasn't trusted.

[Richard Oakley]

8 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Fake news, Bell didn’t get a new contract, they triggered a year on his current one because they haven’t found a lb (said so at fans forum), Samuel had one contract and basically hasn’t played for us for two years, fit or not and Smallwood completely frozen out too for 18 months...

Theyre having Wharton watched most weeks. We’re massively short of CB’s as you know. But he’s just not seen as the answer.

We've Lenihan, Wharton, Williams, Magloire, Grayson, Carter and Mulgrew at CB. We're not massively short of CBs. If we keep 5 that's 2 out of the door. For me that has to be Williams and Mulgrew. Club's made it abundantly clear that it doesn't want Wharton. It's not his height. He's the same height as James Chester. He's not crap. If I recall correctly he was rather vocal about Mahoney being thrown out.

[Ewood Ace]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

I reckon the City link has great potential. They obv have a great relationship with our lot and I agree that they’ll be happy with Tosin. Played a lot of games in his best position.

He's only 18 but the young lad Harwood-Bellis is very highly regard much more so that Tosin. Would be a very good signing if we could do it. 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes I do aswell. 

Firstly, it isn't any obsession on Iversen, just simply pointing that his record of playing 2 years of first team football and represented his country at all levels up to under 21 level and as been in Danish main squad. I've seen clips of him from highlights and 1 video but I not enough to formed a proper opinion, But clubs arent going to give him a 5 and half years to a player if he hasn't got talent and potential. Did you disagree? 

No I don't. Cos Its for some clubs like Huddersfield with Ward, Swansea with Woodman or Rotherham with Rodak or Iversen. of course for some clubs it doesnt work like us last season with Walton. 

I prefer the best man for the job within our budget is whether its a loan, free or cheap fee. Like Josh Boswell posted before and Mowbray has said himself that you are working on different lists so you might have to a player on list B for the keeper position but a player on List A for centre back position. If you have watched Rovers Chat link I posted about some keepers options it gives some foreign names and thats I don't know much about. Have you watch it?

Huddersfield had a different manager when they signed Grabara on loan. Also Huddersfield had Danny Ward on loan who was their 1st choice keeper when they got promoted

I accepted that there are exceptions to my opinion, indeed there would be positive and negative historical examples of all routes, older goalkeepers, goalkeepers signed from abroad, young loanees.

I also have acknowledged that these goalkeepers have talent and it is not a lack of talent but more a potential lack of consistency at the age.

The fact that these goalkeepers have potential is fairly immaterial to us if we are only loaning them. If we sign a keeper in his early 20s he is likely to be years and years away from his peak and any delevopment will benefit the parent club. For example with Raya, he made mistakes but once he became more consistent with age we would have benefitted. If we signed a younger goalkeeper but permanently the same would apply. If we loan a keeper it only really matters how good they are now in the immediate future, not what potential keeper they could eventually become.

If you can not understand my reservations about loaning in a young, raw goalkeeper from a Premier League club then fair enough.

[Atko's Engine]

41 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Wait, so they admitted giving Bell another year because they hadn't found anyone else?

Wow. That's some transfer policy. 

We did get one though, Cunningham, who most agree was a very good signing but sadly got a season ending injury half a dozen games or so after signing. So of course the extra year in Bell's contract would be triggered. Even if a new LB was signed in January, Bell would still have been needed as cover.

[tomphil]

6 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

We've Lenihan, Wharton, Williams, Magloire, Grayson, Carter and Mulgrew at CB. We're not massively short of CBs. If we keep 5 that's 2 out of the door. For me that has to be Williams and Mulgrew. Club's made it abundantly clear that it doesn't want Wharton. It's not his height. He's the same height as James Chester. He's not crap. If I recall correctly he was rather vocal about Mahoney being thrown out.

I thought there was something a while ago that might have upset those in charge. Wharton should be clearly ahead of some of those other young lads.

Remember how Mahonney got jerked about as well, Hart arrived out the blue then has kept being farmed out but got a new contract in the midst of it.

Someone's face just doesn't fit with the ex Boro gang.

Edited August 3, 2020 by tomphil

[Atko's Engine]

55 minutes ago, JHRover said:

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Atko's Engine
Duplicate post, sorry.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Richard Oakley said:

We've Lenihan, Wharton, Williams, Magloire, Grayson, Carter and Mulgrew at CB. We're not massively short of CBs. If we keep 5 that's 2 out of the door. For me that has to be Williams and Mulgrew. Club's made it abundantly clear that it doesn't want Wharton. It's not his height. He's the same height as James Chester. He's not crap. If I recall correctly he was rather vocal about Mahoney being thrown out.

Only Lenihan of those seven is a Championship defender. Carter, Grayson and Magloire are miles away from being Championship ready and will most likely be out on loan. Williams has never been a centre back for me and Charlie is finished I'm afraid to say. Wharton has excelled for a number of seasons in League 2 and is still young but will have learnt plenty from his loan spells. I'd be looking to sign 2 centre backs and then keep Wharton as the 4th option.

[Exiled_Rover]

44 minutes ago, Mercer said:

IMO, as are Walton, Bennett, Bell, Williams, Smallwood, Johnson, Samuel etc and then we have the really expensive cr@p in Brerton and Gallagher.  

I am not at all convinced by Wharton but it's time for Mowbray to either sh1t or get off the pot and give the lad a chance or two or three!!!  Surely, surely with the experience he got out on loan he can be no worse than Carter.  In fact I'd put money on Wharton, over Carter,  being able to earn a decent crust out of football.

IMO, Mowbray only played Travis when he was desperate for numbers and had precious few other options and look what happened!

  

Pretty much - I don't respect the football acumen of a manager and scouting team that spent £12m on Brereton and Gallagher and thinks Bennett should be anywhere near a Championship squad. 

[briansol]

Just now, Richard Oakley said:

We've Lenihan, Wharton, Williams, Magloire, Grayson, Carter and Mulgrew at CB. We're not massively short of CBs. If we keep 5 that's 2 out of the door. For me that has to be Williams and Mulgrew. Club's made it abundantly clear that it doesn't want Wharton. It's not his height. He's the same height as James Chester. He's not crap. If I recall correctly he was rather vocal about Mahoney being thrown out.

In fairness we only got Lenihan and Williams. Mulgrew is expected to leave. I reckon Wharton is the best bet of the rest. At least as backup. Magloire couldn't get a game in League One on loan and is not good enough in the air even if he's quick. Carter and Grayson needs a loan to grow. Wharton has experience and is tougher now. Can head and has a decent left foot. 

There is also a raft of promising centre backs coming through in the U23/U18. Like Isac Whitehall, only 18.

We need at least one more experienced centre back when injuries and suspensions kick in. 

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

My point exactly he wasn't trusted.

Was trusted until his wild tackled against Portsmouth

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I accepted that there are exceptions to my opinion, indeed there would be positive and negative historical examples of all routes, older goalkeepers, goalkeepers signed from abroad, young loanees.

I also have acknowledged that these goalkeepers have talent and it is not a lack of talent but more a potential lack of consistency at the age.

The fact that these goalkeepers have potential is fairly immaterial to us if we are only loaning them. If we sign a keeper in his early 20s he is likely to be years and years away from his peak and any delevopment will benefit the parent club. For example with Raya, he made mistakes but once he became more consistent with age we would have benefitted. If we signed a younger goalkeeper but permanently the same would apply. If we loan a keeper it only really matters how good they are now in the immediate future, not what potential keeper they could eventually become.

If you can not understand my reservations about loaning in a young, raw goalkeeper from a Premier League club then fair enough.

Surely you would have all have reservations and concerns about most signings surely like Downing, Johnson or Adarabioyo last summer?

Wouldn't you have reservations about signing a player from overseas as you wouldn't know much about him ability wise or his game to game performance even if its an experience player? 

We might sign a keeper on loan but if he performs very well and if we do well and get promote then we could sign him permanently. 

Like I said before Philips would be good signing here. His stats looked good and we seems to be interested in him. His clips looked very good

 

[LDRover]

47 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

More of a tangent than you making comparisons between young homegrown players and seasoned professionals? ?

The top and bottom of it is that there’s really nothing to see. The most annoying thing about Wharton is why keep giving him a new deal? 

To be fair if Mowbray et al think he's "crap", he'll do for me.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, briansol said:

Carter and Grayson needs a loan to grow. Wharton has experience and is tougher now. Can head and has a decent left foot. 

There is also a raft of promising centre backs coming through in the U23/U18. Like Isac Whitehall, only 18.

Carter is a good prospect. 

Issac Whitehall impressed me in centre midfield and he is another good prospect. 

[Sparks Rover]

Whiteman update, met Tony last Wednesday....they want him but not before they've bought a goalie and a left back.  Midfield is the 3rd priority. If there is 2m left over we will put a bid in.  We have a pot of money.  Derby are very interested too.  The player wants the championship,  not necessarily Rovers. 2m gets the player.

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Pretty much - I don't respect the football acumen of a manager and scouting team that spent £12m on Brereton and Gallagher and thinks Bennett should be anywhere near a Championship squad. 

Football acumen that just cannot identify their own players strengths and set up a style that suits.