Summer Transfer Window

[phili]

Just now, Richard Oakley said:

These are VH Group accounts they'd be auditing. They make a profit not a loss. I'm pretty sure VH Group has a different start date to their fiscal year - I've never actually checked that.

Venkys London Ltd Accounts, which is the holding company for ourselves. 

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 hours ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

You're trouble is going to be equating what Venkys have done to simply 'making mistakes'. It runs far deeper than that. It's appalling mismanagement of a community institution. The debt and level of spend required to keep us going is 100% on their shoulders, so expecting people to be appreciative of them keeping us afloat is naieve at best. 

Now, any new transfer rumours? ?

I think it is a gross minimisation, which, for me,  is like listening to someone scraping their fingers down a blackboard.

My own personal bete noire is "badly advised"

After Mary Poppins et al were saying they had learned from their mistakes-again- we had the pleasure of Owen Coyle!!

Be very afraid!

 

Edited August 7, 2020 by Leonard Venkhater

[tomphil]

It really is enough to make you cry - again !

Go now to a steady midtable Prem club and say we are investing 200 million over the next ten years and you'd be staggered if that didn't mean a few Euro jaunts.

Say now to a similar midtable Championship club we are here to invest 10 million per year over the next 5 years and you'd expect at least one genuine promotion tilt.

Not here it's just going down a black hole propping things up and providing a safe haven for some of footballs regular under achievers.

What an absolute waste.

[Lancs Rover]

28 minutes ago, Moptop1 said:

Indian Business men and women are known for doing things on the cheap and NEVER admitting when they have done wrong. We’ve a long wait if you expect something like that to happen...

I think the unfathomable 'Indian' factor has played a part to some extent but maybe not in obvious ways.

Currently reading The Geography of Thought - How Asians and Westerners Think Differently by Richard E Nisbett.

The Japanese, to take an example, don't have a single word for 'I' as it's used in the West. When they tak about I, it is only expressed in relation to the context. Social relationships are much more important in terms of how Asians see themselves. We apparently see the world through much narrower lens of singular questions and  provable answers. It partly explains why science and technology and economics gained a stronger foothold in Western society over the last 200 years. Whilst we tend to chase explanations for problems and the bottom line, Asians factor into the calculations much more the social consequences of their actions. Compromise is better than fighting for a principle that could end up bringing the whole house down.

I had an interesting conversation on holiday with a guy who writes for The Times of India. The caste system is alive over there. Lower and higher castes can be identified quite easily by their surnames apparently. He says that when he goes to the doctors, he tries to be seen by a medic with a lower caste name. He knows they will have had to work had to get into that profession. Those from higher castes find it much easier to enter the professions and are best avoided because of that. Competence doesn't tend to distinguish them.

[Bigdoggsteel]

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11759/12044275/richard-keogh-mk-dons-sign-former-derby-defender

Great signing for a League 1 club. Be interesting to see if he can get his career back on track. Really hit rock bottom. 

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, LDRover said:

So, when Venkys eventually pull the plug and send us into oblivion (which has to be a matter of when rather than if) what will be the emotion towards them. Unmitigated hatred for destroying an institution of 150 years or a shrug of the shoulders and thanks for funding the 'stagnation years'?

I'm already there.

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11759/12044275/richard-keogh-mk-dons-sign-former-derby-defender

Great signing for a League 1 club. Be interesting to see if he can get his career back on track. Really hit rock bottom. 

He's an idiot for getting involved in what he did but yes, I think they all deserve chances.

A bit like that new Jak Hickman who's signed for Bolton who was released from Coventry after his drugged up "I'm leaving the club" rant in Ibiza that got posted online.

[Richard Oakley]

2 minutes ago, phili said:

Venkys London Ltd Accounts, which is the holding company for ourselves. 

Our account is directly administered by VH Group. All auditors of VLL will check is that it has the funds to cover expected losses.

As for administration, since Venkys "losses" are secured against their land around Pune, Venkys will be 'keen' to avoid that. As for the State Bank of India (SBOI), they aren't the only bank Venkys have dealings with. I'd imagine SBOI is trying to have the assets the loan was secured against transferred to them in lieu of repayment. Since Venkys never does anything in financial terms, unless compelled, that will take a court case. Possibly more than one case. It takes time for courts to get around to hearing cases.As there's a pandemic raging in both India and  the UK that's likely to take even longer than usual.

I'm aware of the statutory requirement for the fiduciary trust owed by Directors.That says they can't knowingly trade whilst insolvent.Directors on holiday can't know. VH Group can decide to not send any information across so that they would know. I think the next internal audit is in October, for the club. The club can submit plans to the football league showing that the club plans to raise £10m from player sales in its 2020 fiscal year and project losses to £3m, within FFP. The club is showing that it does not intend to break FFP and is a 'going concern'. The club has a £10m bid in for a player, all of which the club will want to be paid in this fiscal year.If previous yearly projections have proved accurate, the league has no reason to be suspicious. The league has no reasonable grounds to launch an immediate spot check of our financial position. I rather doubt my suspicions would be deemed reasonable grounds by the league.

[arbitro]

Just now, Richard Oakley said:

Our account is directly administered by VH Group. All auditors of VLL will check is that it has the funds to cover expected losses.

As for administration, since Venkys "losses" are secured against their land around Pune, Venkys will be 'keen' to avoid that. As for the State Bank of India (SBOI), they aren't the only bank Venkys have dealings with. I'd imagine SBOI is trying to have the assets the loan was secured against transferred to them in lieu of repayment. Since Venkys never does anything in financial terms, unless compelled, that will take a court case. Possibly more than one case. It takes time for courts to get around to hearing cases.As there's a pandemic raging in both India and  the UK that's likely to take even longer than usual.

I'm aware of the statutory requirement for the fiduciary trust owed by Directors.That says they can't knowingly trade whilst insolvent.Directors on holiday can't know. VH Group can decide to not send any information across so that they would know. I think the next internal audit is in October, for the club. The club can submit plans to the football league showing that the club plans to raise £10m from player sales in its 2020 fiscal year and project losses to £3m, within FFP. The club is showing that it does not intend to break FFP and is a 'going concern'. The club has a £10m bid in for a player, all of which the club will want to be paid in this fiscal year.If previous yearly projections have proved accurate, the league has no reason to be suspicious. The league has no reasonable grounds to launch an immediate spot check of our financial position. I rather doubt my suspicions would be deemed reasonable grounds by the league.

Thanks. You seem to know your stuff but from my fiscal idiots point of view are you saying if we went into administration the banks could take the land in India to wipe out the debt?

[Bigdoggsteel]

13 minutes ago, JoeH said:

He's an idiot for getting involved in what he did but yes, I think they all deserve chances.

A bit like that new Jak Hickman who's signed for Bolton who was released from Coventry after his drugged up "I'm leaving the club" rant in Ibiza that got posted online.

It was ridiculously bad judgement and the fact it was something I abhor like drink driving makes it worse. Whether he deserves a second chance or not , I'm not convinced. At his age, in his position , as I said , it was disgrace. Just from a football point of view, if he is back to himself, it's a really good signing for that level. Lower profile, so maybe that played into it. 

Before that incident he was on of the most robust players going, I never remember him being injured and missing games. 

[davulsukur]

7 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

Our account is directly administered by VH Group. All auditors of VLL will check is that it has the funds to cover expected losses.

As for administration, since Venkys "losses" are secured against their land around Pune, Venkys will be 'keen' to avoid that. As for the State Bank of India (SBOI), they aren't the only bank Venkys have dealings with. I'd imagine SBOI is trying to have the assets the loan was secured against transferred to them in lieu of repayment. Since Venkys never does anything in financial terms, unless compelled, that will take a court case. Possibly more than one case. It takes time for courts to get around to hearing cases.As there's a pandemic raging in both India and  the UK that's likely to take even longer than usual.

I'm aware of the statutory requirement for the fiduciary trust owed by Directors.That says they can't knowingly trade whilst insolvent.Directors on holiday can't know. VH Group can decide to not send any information across so that they would know. I think the next internal audit is in October, for the club. The club can submit plans to the football league showing that the club plans to raise £10m from player sales in its 2020 fiscal year and project losses to £3m, within FFP. The club is showing that it does not intend to break FFP and is a 'going concern'. The club has a £10m bid in for a player, all of which the club will want to be paid in this fiscal year.If previous yearly projections have proved accurate, the league has no reason to be suspicious. The league has no reasonable grounds to launch an immediate spot check of our financial position. I rather doubt my suspicions would be deemed reasonable grounds by the league.

Rovers have received a bid of £10m for someone?

[phili]

1 minute ago, arbitro said:

Thanks. You seem to know your stuff but from my fiscal idiots point of view are you saying if we went into administration the banks could take the land in India to wipe out the debt?

The only debt Rovers are liable for at the moment is our £15-20m overdraft. Remaining £200m from Venky's has been put into the club as share capital.

If we went into administration, Venky's would lose £200m. Our Administrators would need to sort out a new banking facility and pay the old overdraft with player sales. I am not sure what the overdraft is secured against, possibly season tickets sales or media income?

The above is why Administration won't happen. More likely for Venky's to sell us for £20m, or something similar to a friend.

[Richard Oakley]

Just now, davulsukur said:

Rovers have received a bid of £10m for someone?

That's the rumour that has been posted on this board.

@arbitro If the loan/debt is secured against the land, yes. If not, no.I suspect the SBOI would 'get' the club.

[Richard Oakley]

10 minutes ago, phili said:

The only debt Rovers are liable for at the moment is our £15-20m overdraft. Remaining £200m from Venky's has been put into the club as share capital.

If we went into administration, Venky's would lose £200m. Our Administrators would need to sort out a new banking facility and pay the old overdraft with player sales. I am not sure what the overdraft is secured against, possibly season tickets sales or media income?

The above is why Administration won't happen. More likely for Venky's to sell us for £20m, or something similar to a friend.

I suspect the club owes the SBOI £32m. Venkys put in £30m cash whilst we were in league 1. Under league 1 rules ,all cash injections made by the owners are gifts.

I don't believe Venkys have put in a single penny of their own and would still be on the hock to their investors. In administration, Venkys would be the largest single creditor, unless their 'debt' status was legally challenged.They would then be able to asset strip to raise funds to pay themselves off, and they would have appointed the administrator rather than let the court appoint one. As they are the majority creditor they would get to approve the deal to themselves.

A sales to their friends, would still leave them exposed to their investors, I believe.

I'm assuming the £5m saved in wages would be used to fund transfers in or 'flex.

Edited August 7, 2020 by Richard Oakley

[arbitro]

11 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Rovers have received a bid of £10m for someone?

I posted that a couple of weeks ago but didn't name the player.

[RoversClitheroe]

Just now, arbitro said:

I posted that a couple of weeks ago but didn't name the player.

Can you name the player?

[bluebruce]

5 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Can you name the player?

It's gonna be Arma. Small chance it's a gamble on Dack before his fitness is proven.

[arbitro]

11 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Can you name the player?

I don't want to yet but if it doesn't happen I will name him and admit the information was wrong.

[G Somerset Rover]

10 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

It's gonna be Arma. Small chance it's a gamble on Dack before his fitness is proven.

Arma or Trav. Likely the former. Don’t think Lenihan would fetch that, while Nyambe only has a year left on his deal.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Arma or Trav. Likely the former. Don’t think Lenihan would fetch that, while Nyambe only has a year left on his deal.

If it's Travis, I will eat my hat. 

It's Dack or Armstrong. 

[G Somerset Rover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

If it's Travis, I will eat my hat. 

It's Dack or Armstrong. 

Not a chance in hell it’s Dack. Who is paying that for him when he’s on the way back from a long term injury that he may not quite ever fully recover from?

Edited August 7, 2020 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[Theaxe15]

Not trying to downplay anyone,  but why is this £10 million bid being treated as a definite when most other talk gets thrown out as rumour? Happy to be proved wrong. Especially if said bid is for Bell...

[davulsukur]

36 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I posted that a couple of weeks ago but didn't name the player.

Ah, thanks. Sorry I must have missed that.

10 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Arma or Trav. Likely the former. Don’t think Lenihan would fetch that, while Nyambe only has a year left on his deal.

Got to be one or the other but you'd have to say Arma.

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Not a chance in hell it’s Dack. Who is paying that for him when he’s on the way back from a long term injury that he may not quite ever fully recover from?

A minuscule percentage of players wouldn't recover from it and that's what medicals are for. If it's not him, it's Armstrong. Nobody else would invite a bit of half that amount. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

More chance it's Dack now, than Travis.