Summer Transfer Window

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, TimmyJimmy said:

Walton was a reasonable stopgap until this years transfer funds came around to buy a proper keeper.

The funds were there last year but he spent them on Gallagher instead. As for Walton being reasonable, you must be joking.

[TimmyJimmy]

2 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

The funds were there last year but he spent them on Gallagher instead. As for Walton being reasonable, you must be joking.

You're assessment of Walton is a 'with the benefit of hindsight' comment, mine was a before the season started assessment. He had a reasonable profile. Fair enough he disappointed in the end but yes when he joined he was a reasonable stopgap (IMO).

[phili]

Just now, TimmyJimmy said:

You're assessment of Walton is a 'with the benefit of hindsight' comment, mine was a before the season started assessment. He had a reasonable profile. Fair enough he disappointed in the end but yes when he joined he was a reasonable stopgap (IMO).

The problem is the budget was there last season for a permanent signing and we decided against it in favour of a loan for one of the most important positions on the pitch.

IF you have a budget with Venky's you spend it all when you can as you don't know when they will stop giving you a budget. Also with FFP rules he would have known last season he had to sell before buying this summer, so i don't understand this stop gap mentality issue. He should have had a new keeper permanently signed by January. 

[islander200]

1 hour ago, Richard Oakley said:

I haven't read anything by Sharpe today. After 75% of the teams in the division have signed, at least, a player, a club has to say it's got bids in. Serious bids, I doubt it. Sharpe in his tweets, I did just have a quick look, said we'd know more in a day or two. If nothing happens, the club's just trying to give the impression things are happening, when they aren't.

It was yesterday he said it,it's on his Twitter, he said we had bids in 

Edited August 19, 2020 by islander200

[Ewood Ace]

6 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

You're assessment of Walton is a 'with the benefit of hindsight' comment, mine was a before the season started assessment. He had a reasonable profile. Fair enough he disappointed in the end but yes when he joined he was a reasonable stopgap (IMO).

A stopgap for what?

[Dreams of 1995]

Walton was nowhere near as bad as some people were making out.

Good goalkeeper - no. Terrible goalkeeper - no. Bog standard Championship keeper - yes.

He'll find his way down to this level again eventually. There were periods I thought he could be a Prem keeper but he's a million miles away from there. Top division keepers are the creme de la creme and are very hard to come by. In my lifetime I have been blessed to see some good goalkeepers at Rovers, but even they had their faults. I was always scared when Friedel was facing a free kick for example. Unfortunately now we're mixing it about in this league our standard of goalkeeping has dropped far greater than on any other area of the pitch. I can't remember the last good goalkeeper I saw in a Rovers shirt....probably Robinson?

[TimmyJimmy]

2 minutes ago, phili said:

The problem is the budget was there last season for a permanent signing and we decided against it in favour of a loan for one of the most important positions on the pitch.

IF you have a budget with Venky's you spend it all when you can as you don't know when they will stop giving you a budget. Also with FFP rules he would have known last season he had to sell before buying this summer, so i don't understand this stop gap mentality issue. He should have had a new keeper permanently signed by January. 

Phili, both you and Blue blood make good points.  Lots of good stuff written there. My take is slightly different though. If I had a budget of 12M I could spread it evenly and stock up with journeymen OR I could take a punt and spend it all on two great prospects and cover the holes with good loan players. Walton turned out to be ordinary but Cunningham and Tosin were stand-outs. We couldn't have bought better. So we ended up with a multiplier effect on the transfer budget.  There's always the thought in the back of your mind that there'll be more funds available for the next season when we can have a look see at what worked and what didn't.

Walton is the one that didn't work. Unfortunately it seems we now have a close to zero transfer budget thus year... who saw that coming?

My belief is, for what it's worth, that without the injuries we would have had a fighting chance of going up with that team. If that had happened we would have had to dismantled the team and build again if we had hopes of staying up. So a sensible call not to spend money on players we would jettison in 12 months.

Bangs per buck!  I think Mowbray did a reasonable job. That said we're in a new world. Gambles backfired and we're in hole, actually several holes.

Onwards and upwards eh.

[RevidgeBlue]

4 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Walton was nowhere near as bad as some people were making out.

Good goalkeeper - no. Terrible goalkeeper - no. Bog standard Championship keeper - yes.

He'll find his way down to this level again eventually. There were periods I thought he could be a Prem keeper but he's a million miles away from there. Top division keepers are the creme de la creme and are very hard to come by. In my lifetime I have been blessed to see some good goalkeepers at Rovers, but even they had their faults. I was always scared when Friedel was facing a free kick for example. Unfortunately now we're mixing it about in this league our standard of goalkeeping has dropped far greater than on any other area of the pitch. I can't remember the last good goalkeeper I saw in a Rovers shirt....probably Robinson?

Raya.

As for Walton, terrible doesn't do justice to how bad he was, pre or post lockdown.

[Blue blood]

2 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

Come on Tyrone, I normally love reading your contributions but isn't this a little extreme?

Reading the guy's comments there's stuff like:

... there are no easy games in football

... they'll come with a game-plan, they have good individuals and we'll have to take our chances against them

... it's preparation for this season

... seeing it is as an opportunity to blood some young players

There's nothing defeatist there just respect between managers. If the game is tough for us then it's likely to be because we're taking a look at several kids before the season starts to see if they've got what it takes.

There's a hell of a difference between being respectful and being overly cautious and fearful of the opposition. IMO it's clearly the latter. . 

2 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

Also how many recent losses are down to us not converting our chances? Lots. He's not saying anything we wouldn't.

I'm getting a bit tetchy with the constant Mowbray out stuff. What's he supposed to say that will get a favourable response other than I'm leaving.  The team has holes in it  I contend this is not his fault.

Why is it not his fault? He's had 6 transfer windows, a free hit of a 3 month assessment period in the relegation season, £15 million plus spent on transfers, not had to sell a single player he didn't want to. Why's it not his fault? What's the excuse? :Lack of funds - he's had more than Bowyer, Lambert and Coyle. Time - he's had 3+ seasons of it, and been pretty bomb proof results wise in that too. Forced to sell best players - up till now he hasn't. Players forced upon him? Other than Bereton, which we don't know is the case, there doesn't seem any fishy transfers. So how is TM exempt from the team having holes in?   

2 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

He saw the chance to onboard some great young prospects for a lot of money knowing we already have the likes of Dack  Cunningham and Tosin in the team. Not his fault two were then crocked for most of the season. Tosin is a great player that we couldn't afford but Mowbray somehow landed him on loan.

I've a few issues with this. Firstly timing - who are the great young prospects on board? Our youngsters from the academy or the likes of Gally? As I recall, Cunningham was a late addition to the squad in the window, certainly great young prospects weren't added after him, or any transfers for that matter..

As for the not his fault two of these were crocked most of the season. For Dack it was half a season, and there's the big issue that neither of them were replaced, that's most definitely his fault. Also placing all the misfortunes on these injuries, I don't think that washes either. It was his fault we spent huge on two non-scoring strikers, didn't buy enough cover in defence, had 5 of our 6 summer signings be short term, now buy any wide strikers/midfielders etc. It was his fault he messed up the keeper situation (more on that later.) Dack and Cunningham's injuries didn't prevent any of these problems from happening. 

There are also TMs faults with false 9s and wide forwards amidst a host of other issues, but since this is about the squad strength I will ignore these for now. 

2 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

 

I don't see he did a lot wrong. Raya was constantly being pilloried for his errors/distribution. Walton was a reasonable stopgap until this years transfer funds came around to buy a proper keeper.

Hang on you say he should have got rid of Raya for his errors, only to bring in someone who did more errors? That's a hell of an error in my book. Also reasonable stopgap is not a way I'd describe Walton. In fact he stopped very little, and there were lots of gaps. Poor till Christmas, appalling post lock down - that's a terrible stopgap. Also why couldn't we buy a keeper last summer, rather than wait till this one? Or wait until we had someone lined up before offloading Raya? Not sure how it needed to wait to the summer. 

2 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

The world falls off a cliff. The transfer budget disappears. If clubs won't sell we can't buy!

IMO he's making the best of a bad job. Just because he's a decent guy who says respectful things about the opposition doesn't mean he's a surrender monkey.

Again, that all these problems are coming at the same time is down to no one but TM. Yes he couldn't have foreseen the pandemic but he could have foreseen that needing to replace all his loans and his aging players at the same time - before we even get to other places where the squad is thin - was going to happen. Covid 19 or not - Tosin et al would return, Graham, Downing, Mulgrew etc. would get older. The pandemic has made the situation worse, much worse, but TM dug us into that hole in the first place.   

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, TimmyJimmy said:

Unfortunately it seems we now have a close to zero transfer budget thus year... who saw that coming?

Anyone with a memory that stretches back just a few years.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, TimmyJimmy said:

Walton is the one that didn't work. Unfortunately it seems we now have a close to zero transfer budget thus year... who saw that coming?

 

Everyone?

Have you never heard of FFP?

[Blue blood]

1 minute ago, TimmyJimmy said:

 Phili, both you and Blue blood make good points.  Lots of good stuff written there. My take is slightly different though. If I had a budget of 12M I could spread it evenly and stock up with journeymen OR I could take a punt and spend it all on two great prospects and cover the holes with good loan players. Walton turned out to be ordinary but Cunningham and Tosin were stand-outs. We couldn't have bought better. So we ended up with a multiplier effect on the transfer budget.  There's always the thought in the back of your mind that there'll be more funds available for the next season when we can have a look see at what worked and what didn't.

 Walton is the one that didn't work. Unfortunately it seems we now have a close to zero transfer budget thus year... who saw that coming?

My belief is, for what it's worth, that without the injuries we would have had a fighting chance of going up with that team. If that had happened we would have had to dismantled the team and build again if we had hopes of staying up. So a sensible call not to spend money on players we would jettison in 12 months.

Bangs per buck!  I think Mowbray did a reasonable job. That said we're in a new world. Gambles backfired and we're in hole, actually several holes.

Onwards and upwards eh.

Genuine question - who are these great prospects we've spent it on? I've yet to see them. 

Think we could have brought better. For starters not having all our issues come up at once and not having the majority of our back line on loan would long term have seen us in a better position for years to come.  

[Dreams of 1995]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Raya.

As for Walton, terrible doesn't do justice to how bad he was, pre or post lockdown.

I'm talking about a good, good goalkeeper. Raya was okay, but you never knew which Raya was going to turn up. The last dependable bloke I remember was Robinson.

We will agree to disagree on Walton, but I'm glad he isn't our keeper either. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

52 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

Come on Tyrone, I normally love reading your contributions but isn't this a little extreme?

Reading the guy's comments there's stuff like:

... there are no easy games in football

... they'll come with a game-plan, they have good individuals and we'll have to take our chances against them

... it's preparation for this season

... seeing it is as an opportunity to blood some young players

There's nothing defeatist there just respect between managers. If the game is tough for us then it's likely to be because we're taking a look at several kids before the season starts to see if they've got what it takes.

Also how many recent losses are down to us not converting our chances? Lots. He's not saying anything we wouldn't.

I'm getting a bit tetchy with the constant Mowbray out stuff. What's he supposed to say that will get a favourable response other than I'm leaving.  The team has holes in it  I contend this is not his fault. He saw the chance to onboard some great young prospects for a lot of money knowing we already have the likes of Dack  Cunningham and Tosin in the team. Not his fault two were then crocked for most of the season. Tosin is a great player that we couldn't afford but Mowbray somehow landed him on loan. I don't see he did a lot wrong. Raya was constantly being pilloried for his errors/distribution. Walton was a reasonable stopgap until this years transfer funds came around to buy a proper keeper.

The world falls off a cliff. The transfer budget disappears. If clubs won't sell we can't buy!

IMO he's making the best of a bad job. Just because he's a decent guy who says respectful things about the opposition doesn't mean he's a surrender monkey.

Games are only easy if you make them easy. You always treat your opponents with respect, if you don't perform on the day it's not going to end well. We all know the script. However when does he ever talk our guys up ? He's more concerned with stopping our opponents than he his giving them something to worry about.  

[Blue blood]

2 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I'm talking about a good, good goalkeeper. Raya was okay, but you never knew which Raya was going to turn up. The last dependable bloke I remember was Robinson.

We will agree to disagree on Walton, but I'm glad he isn't our keeper either. 

The fact you are glad he isn't out keeper suggests that Walton is pretty poor. 

I get football is subjective and all about opinions, which is part of its appeal. However I really struggle to see how the early clangers and the whole of his post lockdown performances don't get Walton judged more harshly on here. 

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, Blue blood said:

The fact you are glad he isn't out keeper suggests that Walton is pretty poor. 

I get football is subjective and all about opinions, which is part of its appeal. However I really struggle to see how the early clangers and the whole of his post lockdown performances don't get Walton judged more harshly on here. 

That subjective point is interesting Blue blood because I actually think Walton gets a harsh time of things on here.

I think poor is a reasonable assessment but on threads he's been called talentless, terrible and all manner of t's and c's. I thought he was below average but nothing better than that, and in some years time he might become a reasonable standard Championship goalie.

We have seen worse - Jason Steele. 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

58 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

Come on Tyrone, I normally love reading your contributions but isn't this a little extreme?

Reading the guy's comments there's stuff like:

... there are no easy games in football

... they'll come with a game-plan, they have good individuals and we'll have to take our chances against them

... it's preparation for this season

... seeing it is as an opportunity to blood some young players

There's nothing defeatist there just respect between managers. If the game is tough for us then it's likely to be because we're taking a look at several kids before the season starts to see if they've got what it takes.

Also how many recent losses are down to us not converting our chances? Lots. He's not saying anything we wouldn't.

I'm getting a bit tetchy with the constant Mowbray out stuff. What's he supposed to say that will get a favourable response other than I'm leaving.  The team has holes in it  I contend this is not his fault. He saw the chance to onboard some great young prospects for a lot of money knowing we already have the likes of Dack  Cunningham and Tosin in the team. Not his fault two were then crocked for most of the season. Tosin is a great player that we couldn't afford but Mowbray somehow landed him on loan. I don't see he did a lot wrong. Raya was constantly being pilloried for his errors/distribution. Walton was a reasonable stopgap until this years transfer funds came around to buy a proper keeper.

The world falls off a cliff. The transfer budget disappears. If clubs won't sell we can't buy!

IMO he's making the best of a bad job. Just because he's a decent guy who says respectful things about the opposition doesn't mean he's a surrender monkey.

Come on. He's three years into a job and he hasn't even established a spine to the team.  

Perhaps the only 2 are Lennihan and Travis who were both here when he arrived.  

In isolation he has had a couple of good loans in and a couple of good buys.  

 

No team progresses without a settled, solid spine of team.  TM has just scatter-gunned players he's bought into the team.  In many ways it mirrors Venkys approach.

 

 

[RovingRover]

Mowbray's transfer wishlist is being depleted in front of his eyes and there is nothing he can do about it with owners completely unwilling to pledge money for transfers or wages even with player departures already taken place.

Dire situation.

[Richard Oakley]

53 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

Phili, both you and Blue blood make good points.  Lots of good stuff written there. My take is slightly different though. If I had a budget of 12M I could spread it evenly and stock up with journeymen OR I could take a punt and spend it all on two great prospects and cover the holes with good loan players. Walton turned out to be ordinary but Cunningham and Tosin were stand-outs. We couldn't have bought better. So we ended up with a multiplier effect on the transfer budget.  There's always the thought in the back of your mind that there'll be more funds available for the next season when we can have a look see at what worked and what didn't.

Walton is the one that didn't work. Unfortunately it seems we now have a close to zero transfer budget thus year... who saw that coming?

My belief is, for what it's worth, that without the injuries we would have had a fighting chance of going up with that team. If that had happened we would have had to dismantled the team and build again if we had hopes of staying up. So a sensible call not to spend money on players we would jettison in 12 months.

Bangs per buck!  I think Mowbray did a reasonable job. That said we're in a new world. Gambles backfired and we're in hole, actually several holes.

Onwards and upwards eh.

Cunningham played 8 games for us. Injured and out for the season. He did not represent good value or money well spent. Mowbray started by playing Tosin RB, playing him out of position like he had with Reed and Palmer.I reckon it took a phonecall from City to tell Mowbray where Tosin was to be played. Brereton had done nothing art Forest for two seasons. He wasn't a great prospect. Gallagher played wide right had done nothing in the 15 games on loan.Nothing to indicate he'd do anything there on being signed  £12m washed down the toilet. Nobody but Mowbray to blame. Walton was a late desperation play. True, he could have been a lot worse.

Agreed, we had a decent chance of getting into the playoffs -  with that team.That we didn't was Mowbray deciding to treat the back 9 as an extended training camp.

I do agree with you that the gamble has backfired and we're in a hole. We're relying on players coming good and Dack coming back in the same form he was in before injury. I'm hoping Mercer puts a bet on our being relegated...

Edited August 19, 2020 by Richard Oakley

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

5 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Alan Partridge's vision of 20ft high chickens coming to life at Ewood Park.

 

[DeeCee]

33 minutes ago, TimmyJimmy said:

Phili, both you and Blue blood make good points.  Lots of good stuff written there. My take is slightly different though. If I had a budget of 12M I could spread it evenly and stock up with journeymen OR I could take a punt and spend it all on two great prospects and cover the holes with good loan players. Walton turned out to be ordinary but Cunningham and Tosin were stand-outs. We couldn't have bought better. So we ended up with a multiplier effect on the transfer budget.  There's always the thought in the back of your mind that there'll be more funds available for the next season when we can have a look see at what worked and what didn't.

Walton is the one that didn't work. Unfortunately it seems we now have a close to zero transfer budget thus year... who saw that coming?

My belief is, for what it's worth, that without the injuries we would have had a fighting chance of going up with that team. If that had happened we would have had to dismantled the team and build again if we had hopes of staying up. So a sensible call not to spend money on players we would jettison in 12 months.

Bangs per buck!  I think Mowbray did a reasonable job. That said we're in a new world. Gambles backfired and we're in hole, actually several holes.

Onwards and upwards eh.

actually several holes. 4,000?

[Theaxe15]

5 minutes ago, RovingRover said:

Mowbray's transfer wishlist is being depleted in front of his eyes and there is nothing he can do about it with owners completely unwilling to pledge money for transfers or wages even with player departures already taken place.

Dire situation.

This based off of knowledge or a feeling?

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Richard Oakley said:

Cunningham played 8 games for us. Injured and out for the season. He did not represent good valuer or money well spent. Mowbray started by playing Tosin RB, playing him out of position like he had with Reed and Palmer.I reckon it took a phonecall from City to tell Mowbray where Tosin was to be played. Brereton had done nothing art Forest for two seasons. He wasn't a great prospect. Gallagher played wide right had done nothing in the 15 games on loan.Nothing to indicate he'd do anything there on being signed  £12m washed down the toilet. Nobody but Mowbray to blame. Walton was a late desperation play. True, he could have been a lot worse.

Agreed, we had a decent chance of getting into the playoffs -  with that team.That we didn't was Mowbray deciding to treat the back 9 as an extended training camp.

I do agree with you that the gamble has backfired and we're in a hole. We're relying on players coming good and Dack coming back in the same form he was in before injury. I'm hoping Mercer puts a bet on our being relegated...

Did we play Tosin right-back? 

Harsh to say Cunningham wasn't money well spent, you can't guarantee a player won't getting injured. He was a good signing. 

[Blue blood]

7 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

That subjective point is interesting Blue blood because I actually think Walton gets a harsh time of things on here.

I think poor is a reasonable assessment but on threads he's been called talentless, terrible and all manner of t's and c's. I thought he was below average but nothing better than that, and in some years time he might become a reasonable standard Championship goalie.

We have seen worse - Jason Steele. 

Hmm interesting how you think he gets a hard time. Reading your post I think the disagreement between you and I on him is how bad he is, rather than whether he is poor. Perhaps an over reaction to people saying he has been ok / decent? Maybe Steele (agree truly terrible keeper) makes people look more favourably on him? Does the loan situation influence thoughts? Regardless -  whilst I do think the t's and C's are warrented - what appears to be undisputed is that he wasn't the standard needed and had a very disappointing season. 

 

Given the work that needs doing before sales I am very worried about this window. Imagine Armstrong goes - we have no threat from the strikers whatsoever. Or Lenihen - we will have virtually no defence, certainly not championship standard. Or Travis - Johnson and Evans couldn't manage a full season for one place between them. Any losses and we really are struggling. 

[RovingRover]

5 minutes ago, Theaxe15 said:

This based off of knowledge or a feeling?

Murmerings.