Summer Transfer Window

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

If we seriously splashed out £1 million to land Tosin last summer then more fool us. 

I don't think I've said we haven't spent money since promotion. My gripe is and has been that it isn't invested into the right areas - the defensive situation is verging on a disgrace and the fact that this manager looks set to turn up at Bournemouth on Saturday starting yet another season having failed to address it is a massive problem.

As of now we are well into another transfer window having failed to recruit the PERMANENT defensive acquisitions that we need. 

I've put it on here many a time that a suspicion of mine has long been that the owners will not authorise permanent deals for defenders except in very rare circumstances.

FACT is that we've spent less than £500k on defensive signings of our own in more than 4 years now. 

It has never been an issue heaping wages onto the payroll as they did with Downing and Johnson. Quite the opposite it seems to be 'easy come, easy go' on the wages front with Mowbray and co. dishing out extensions galore to Gladwin, Hart, Smallwood for no purpose.

Why am I against loan deals? Because relying on loans has got us into this state where we've no defenders and keepers because we've avoided addressing those positions with permanent signings, going into the summer in the unprecedented situation of having 1 established CB and no goalkeepers. If we had then we could relax a little more this summer. I think it is now inevitable that the only defensive additions we will get will be a loan or two from generous lending clubs which is a shambles.

I agree with your point about Bristol City - done some impressive business this week - Mawson, Sessegnon, Martin - no transfer fees paid but top quality players in BEFORE the season starts, no messing or dilly dallying. Why can't we do similar?

I don't really care if we paid £5 million for Tosin. The more we paid the more foolish it seems for an arrangement never likely to last more than 1 year. I thought we were meant to be building a squad to grow and develop not chucking big money at loans and short term contracts to patch up for 12 months?

Anyhow, these discussions whilst enjoyable and we can go back and forth about whether I am right or you are right are ultimately achieving nothing. One fact that everyone recognises even if they want to try and hide it is that yet again the season is kicking off and we are short.

1 million gets you nothing these days tho.Might pick up a bargain for that but wouldnt have faith in our lot finding them.

We could have bought someone last season for a million quid and we would most likely be debating which defender we would be signing to replace that player and him still on a contract for another couple of years.

Like I said I wouldn't favour loan deals in the main but for the right player that would undoubtedly improve our first 11 then I would think a signing like that would give us a better chance of promotion rather than a Sarr or Lyndsay on permanent deals.

In my opinion you are smoking too strong a strain if you really believe that about Venkys not authorising defensive signings.

Since being here Jones,Samba,Dann,Hanley,Duffy have brought in significant money so that just wouldn't make any sense.

We have had poor managers who used the money badly spending on the wrong players and wrong positions

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 hour ago, Hi Mack said:

I think we still use the yellow pages when completing transfers! 

"My name, yes it's J H Rover"

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Yes I know we signed Adarabioyo and he improvement our defence. Walton was Walton. We all know what happen there don't we. 

So you are for loans as long as you agree with the players quality we sign

Mawson was never coming here. Wages demands too much. 

I'm not 'for' loans. I accept they are part of life and that they can do good to a side looking for some extra depth or quality. If it means you can add to options by bringing in real quality then fine.

But our policy isn't that. Last summer we relied on loans to become cornerstones of our squad and relied on them being fit and playing every week. We knew last summer that Mulgrew needed replacing and Raya too after Mowbray sold him yet took the short term route by loaning replacements, apparently not concerned about the inevitability of losing both this summer.

Kicking the can down the road stuff. I don't accept that we couldn't find our own players of sufficient quality that could now be 1 year into 3-4 year contracts and we could go to bed comfortable with the situation instead of extreme concern.

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

You do realise that the fact we signed Tosin and Walton on loan last summer rather than a couple of permanents is THE reason we are in this predicament now?

If we had signed Mawson, Sessegnon and Martin in the space of a week I would hold my hands up and hand it to the club. That is dreamland stuff here though.

No problem with loans if it takes the squad up a level whilst having a stable solid core of our own to fall back on.

Relying on loans to assemble the squad and to avoid making permanent signings? Well that is nothing but a short term patch up approach and look where we are because of it.

Because the manager decided to spend his budget on the attack and midfield.His budget wouldn't stretch to signing a player of Tosins quality.

The manager wanted Gallagher and spent the majority of his budget on that so spent the million plus on Tosin rather than bringing in an inferior player for the same money on 2 or 3 year deal

[JHRover]

Just now, islander200 said:

 

Since being here Jones,Samba,Dann,Hanley,Duffy have brought in significant money so that just wouldn't make any sense.

We have had poor managers who used the money badly spending on the wrong players and wrong positions

We've had Kean, Bowyer, Lambert, Coyle and Mowbray all preside over Venky transfer windows across a near 10 year period.

How many cash permanent defensive signings? Amazing that all those managers from different backgrounds and abilities all decided they didn't want or need to spend on the defence. Quite a coincidence.

[JHRover]

Just now, islander200 said:

Because the manager decided to spend his budget on the attack and midfield.His budget wouldn't stretch to signing a player of Tosins quality.

The manager wanted Gallagher and spent the majority of his budget on that so spent the million plus on Tosin rather than bringing in an inferior player for the same money on 2 or 3 year deal

And if that's correct we are allowing him to continue as our manager? 

[Ewood Ace]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mawson was never coming here. Wages demands too much. 

Given we were going to pay £900K plus wages for Kipre, we would have easily been able to afford his wages. Unless of course the Kipre story was some window dressing by the club.

[Waggy76]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

We've had Kean, Bowyer, Lambert, Coyle and Mowbray all preside over Venky transfer windows across a near 10 year period.

How many cash permanent defensive signings? Amazing that all those managers from different backgrounds and abilities all decided they didn't want or need to spend on the defence. Quite a coincidence.

They all have one thing in common ...

Poor managers !

[JHRover]

Just now, Waggy76 said:

They all have one thing in common ...

Poor managers !

And all get their directions and instructions from the loons in India!

[islander200]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

I'm not 'for' loans. I accept they are part of life and that they can do good to a side looking for some extra depth or quality. If it means you can add to options by bringing in real quality then fine.

But our policy isn't that. Last summer we relied on loans to become cornerstones of our squad and relied on them being fit and playing every week. We knew last summer that Mulgrew needed replacing and Raya too after Mowbray sold him yet took the short term route by loaning replacements, apparently not concerned about the inevitability of losing both this summer.

Kicking the can down the road stuff. I don't accept that we couldn't find our own players of sufficient quality that could now be 1 year into 3-4 year contracts and we could go to bed comfortable with the situation instead of extreme concern.

The majority of our budget last year should have been spent on goalkeeper and centre half but The manager decided to spend it on Gallagher.

We can debate all day about Venkys being billionaires etc and should throw endless amounts of money at us but the reality is they haven't done that and won't do that.

The manager has to work to a budget and in my opinion since our return to the championship his budget has been competitive.

He has made some good signings Dack and Armstrong bargains but the big money he has wasted

[RevidgeBlue]

30 minutes ago, unsall said:

But you said the opposite,( saying  if all parties agreed he should be here)Now you’re saying we should have walked away. 
I have no idea if we made a genuine £900,000 bid, the word was we did, not sure how people know that we didn’t, but trying to compete with a premier club in wages, there was only going to be one winner.

If no one comes in after deadline you might be right, but I’m hopeful there will be 2/3 additions, especially c/b and l/b.

 

I said "if all parties were serious about the deal he'd be here".

You obviously didn't appreciate the point I was making. We might or might not have had genuine intentions of signing him initially but the player obviously wasn't serious about coming. If you put a bid in for a player and he says "I'm coming" or "I'll think about it" and you're still no nearer whatsoever a month or so down the line you surely don't have to be a genius to work out there's a potential problem or that the player isn't that bothered about coming.

So it's not difficult to see why it looks like the whole episode comes across as a box ticking exercise to make it look like we were doing something.

Edited September 7, 2020 by RevidgeBlue

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

We've had Kean, Bowyer, Lambert, Coyle and Mowbray all preside over Venky transfer windows across a near 10 year period.

How many cash permanent defensive signings? Amazing that all those managers from different backgrounds and abilities all decided they didn't want or need to spend on the defence. Quite a coincidence.

Bowyer was under a transfer embargo and brought in Duffy who became a regular fixture, our budgets only stretch so far so yeah I do think the manager's neglected the defence and concentrated on attack.

Don't see why Venkys would be against defensive signings when the club made nice money selling defenders since they bought us

[islander200]

7 minutes ago, JHRover said:

And if that's correct we are allowing him to continue as our manager? 

I don't think he should be still manager.

I also don't think Venkys are good owners and we are not a priority to them but they have provided the manager with a competitive budget the last 3 seasons.

[JHRover]

Just now, islander200 said:

Bowyer was under a transfer embargo and brought in Duffy who became a regular fixture, our budgets only stretch so far so yeah I do think the manager's neglected the defence and concentrated on attack.

Don't see why Venkys would be against defensive signings when the club made nice money selling defenders since they bought us

I don't see why Venkys would do 99% of what they have done at the club. I'm not saying it makes any sense, does anything they do make sense?

We don't know who advises them or what potentially deluded views they might have on 'investments' into their team.

They clearly fancy a goalscorer more than other positions - the evidence for that is massive outlays on Rhodes, Brereton and Gallagher which dwarf all other transfers and clearly represented special one off injections from India. Why if they fancy a spend of that magnitude on attackers can the opposite not apply to defenders?

Edited September 7, 2020 by JHRover

[RevidgeBlue]

8 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Bowyer was under a transfer embargo and brought in Duffy who became a regular fixture, our budgets only stretch so far so yeah I do think the manager's neglected the defence and concentrated on attack.

Don't see why Venkys would be against defensive signings when the club made nice money selling defenders since they bought us

Imo the notion that Venky's won't pay for defenders is just another stick to beat them with and excuse the failings of successive managers.

Everyone conveniently overlooks we paid a reported £7m for Scott Dann although admittedly that was some time ago.

Edited September 7, 2020 by RevidgeBlue

[roversfan99]

For me, the idea of Venkys having enough of an interest and indeed knowledge of specific positons to insist on no defender purchases seems crazy. The most obvious reason for our recent reluctance to buy defenders is the manager. He has shown the same negligent towards his defence at previous jobs including his last one. He deserves the blame. Prior to him, we had Hanley who serves us well from the academy, paid good money for Dann and when he was sold, paid a fee for Duffy who again was a success. Then there was a period when the assets all over the pitch were sold and replaced by frees then we had Lenihan again from the academy and Mulgrew.

Also, it would make little sense spending a fee on Pears to be number 2. An experienced freebie makes more sense compared to buying someone who needs to develop, not sit on a bench.

[pjt]

Would spending the money that we used last year on bringing in Gallagher,  with Tosin, Walton & cunnigham on loan, for decent permanent signings in other positions (ie left back and centre back and a goalkeeper) have helped balance the squad.? Rovers have always bought and sold players.  We seem to buy them now and keep them until they are released.

 

Edited September 7, 2020 by pjt

[J*B]

On 02/09/2020 at 15:57, unsall said:

Mind you he did say Danny Graham signed for Sunderland 2 weeks ago, still not happened, ?

Bump!

[RevidgeBlue]

22 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I'm not 'for' loans. I accept they are part of life and that they can do good to a side looking for some extra depth or quality. If it means you can add to options by bringing in real quality then fine.

But our policy isn't that. Last summer we relied on loans to become cornerstones of our squad and relied on them being fit and playing every week. We knew last summer that Mulgrew needed replacing and Raya too after Mowbray sold him yet took the short term route by loaning replacements, apparently not concerned about the inevitability of losing both this summer.

Kicking the can down the road stuff. I don't accept that we couldn't find our own players of sufficient quality that could now be 1 year into 3-4 year contracts and we could go to bed comfortable with the situation instead of extreme concern.

I'd go even further than you in your criticism of loans. In isolation Tosin looked reasonably impressive but imo was far from a worldbeater. We finished 11th and conceded 63 goals, only 6 fewer than the season before that. ( Although you might argue that that itself was an achievement with Walton in nets)

I'd far rather we'd finished a few points lower but saved the £1m loan fee plus wages but much more importantly allowed Wharton or Magloire to get 12 months experience under their belts at Championship level.

And I will feel the same way this season  if, having spoken of the need for "men" at the back Mowbray splashes out again on a loan for a Premiership youngster the same age as Wharton or Magloire leaving us back at square one yet again in 12 months time.

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 minutes ago, J*B said:

Bump!

Careful..Brace yourself lol!

[unsall]

21 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I said "if all parties were serious about the deal he'd be here".

You obviously didn't appreciate the point I was making. We might or might not have had genuine intentions of signing him initially but the player obviously wasn't serious about coming. If you put a bid in for a player and he says "I'm coming" or "I'll think about it" and you're still no nearer whatsoever a month or so down the line you surely don't have to be a genius to work out there's a potential problem or that the player isn't that bothered about coming.

So it's not difficult to see why it looks like the whole episode comes across as a box ticking exercise to make it look like we were doing something.

I know what you said, and all parties were allegedly serious, then along came a premier club and the rest is history.

That’s how most transfers happen, player talks with club,seems over the line and then a club from a higher division comes in, and whoosh gone. Now everyone is saying we weren’t serious and we had no intention of paying near 1 mil, amazes me how all these know these things.

Personally I prefer to wait to the end of the window and see where we are before making my mind up if we are serious buyers.

[J*B]

11 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Careful..Brace yourself lol!

You’re right — I did predict that reply coming back!

In all seriousness ‘brace yourself’ has taught me a hell of a lot about transfer windows without learning very much. It must be pretty crazy being involved in them, especially with big name transfers. DG told someone, in my company, over a month ago he was signing for Sunderland. Nothing for weeks, then he signs. If he knew then, why does it take so long to be announced?
 

The person that told me the ‘brace yourself’ info was part of the Rovers transfer team. Transfers do not happen without this persons involvement, in terms of ‘sources’ it’s pretty much golden. But then nothing, nothing on Wednesday, or Thursday... whilst I’m banging my head against a wall wondering what on Earth is going on, here we are a week later and seemingly nothing on the horizon. 
 

Do I think he was lying to me? No, that would be very odd. The reality — I assume — was someone was set to sign, then something happened. I’ve no idea what, or why. Really, unless you’re right in the middle of it, the info you get is second/third/fourth hand. To be fair to Rovers, when we do sign someone recently it’s totally out of nowhere, so we are doing well and keeping things under wraps. 

[unsall]

11 minutes ago, J*B said:

Bump!

Ha ha better late than never, took a while to get over the line, Sunderland fans don’t seem happy, after his first stint there, but think in league 1 he’ll bang a few goals in..

[islander200]

8 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I'd go even further than you in your criticism of loans. In isolation Tosin looked reasonably impressive but imo was far from a worldbeater. We finished 11th and conceded 63 goals, only 6 fewer than the season before that. ( Although you might argue that that itself was an achievement with Walton in nets)

I'd far rather we'd finished a few points lower but saved the £1m loan fee plus wages but much more importantly allowed Wharton or Magloire to get 12 months experience under their belts at Championship level.

And I will feel the same way this season  if, having spoken of the need for "men" at the back Mowbray splashes out again on a loan for a Premiership youngster the same age as Wharton or Magloire leaving us back at square one yet again in 12 months time.

You have a point about giving our own young players a chance rather than loaning in others.

My argument is Mowbray had a decent enough budget last season HE chose to buy Gallagher with it and bring in Johnson,Downing, and  Holtby who might have been free in terms of a transfer fee but they would have got significant signing on fees to make up the difference in a reduction in wages so he had only a little bit of money to play with in defence so chose to spend it on a higher quality loan rather than paying a million for a permanent signing ,a million quid gets you nothing these days unless you have an excellent recruitment team or get lucky.Chances are if we had of made a permanent signing for that money last season we would all be debating now why did we buy him and who are we going to buy to replace him.

Now it sounds like we don't have much money to spend again and what we have should be spent on the first 11 centre half and left back and I wouldn't be against paying the wages of someone like Mawson a decent defender for a year rather than buying someone and giving them a 2 or 3 year deal when  we know deep down isn't the quality to get us up or push us up another level.Like Sarr and Lyndsey are ok but are they really the players that we all think will push us up to the level were we want to be?

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, J*B said:

You’re right — I did predict that reply coming back!

In all seriousness ‘brace yourself’ has taught me a hell of a lot about transfer windows without learning very much. It must be pretty crazy. DG told someone, in my company, over a month ago he was signing for Sunderland. Nothing for weeks, then he signs. 
 

The person that told me the ‘brace yourself’ info was part of the Rovers transfer team. Transfers do not happen without this persons involvement, in terms of ‘sources’ it’s pretty much golden. But then nothing, nothing on Wednesday, or Thursday... whilst I’m banging my head against a wall wondering what on Earth is going on, here we are a week later and seemingly nothing on the horizon. 
 

Do I think he was lying to me? No, that would be very odd. The reality — I assume — was someone was set to sign, then something happened. I’ve no idea what, or why. Really, unless you’re right in the middle of it, the info you get is second/third/fourth hand. To be fair to Rovers, when we do sign someone recently it’s totally out of nowhere, so we are doing well and keeping things under wraps. 

Haha..I couldn't resist!

In all seriousness, people have to be able to take a risk and post without recrimination. It is supposed to be a message board between fellow supporters after all...

Maybe, there's still time for your plane to land...