Summer Transfer Window

[Vilesinner]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Raya, Fisher, Leutwiler
Nyambe, Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams, Grayson, P. Downing, Hart, Rodwell, Bell
Bennett, Chapman, Conway, Dack, Evans, Gladwin, Reed, Rothwell, Smallwood, Travis
Graham, Armstrong, Samuel, Brereton, Nuttall

vs

Kaminski, Fisher, Eastham
Bennett, Nyambe, Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams, Bell, Magloire, Wharton, Carter
Johnson, Chapman, Dack, Evans, Travis, Rothwell, Dolan, Buckley, Davenport, JRC, Holtby
Armstrong, Gallagher, Brereton, Butterworth

Top squad finished 15th in the league. The bottom squad is supposedly doomed for relegation from day one? Give me a bleedin' break man!

Yeah, I think our squad is stronger without a doubt. I doubt we could sign anyone as good as JRC. 

I wonder could Maglorie and Grayson could play fullback if required. Wharton being left sides is also handy.

We definitely do have options if need be.

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, JoeH said:

But he wasn't for us. He didn't play as a CM often enough to be considered that. I get that he's quality footballer, but in 2018/19 for us, he wasn't as huge a factor as you're implying.

Because the genius that is Tony Mowbray played him right wing ffs.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

When we signed them is irrelevant they still cost a combined £15 Million and their are few teams in the league that could put out an attacking 3 that cost that much. 

When we signed them matters if we're comparing to other clubs. Plenty of teams in our league have a far higher transfer spend than us over let's say a four or five year period. If we're just looking recently then yes, we're up there, but not if we're saying time is an irrelevant factor. 

Look at the money and wages spent by some clubs in general over the last half decade, we have the 16th highest wage budget in the division. 

[Blue blood]

10 minutes ago, RovingRover said:

Is worth noting the history of the above players be it injuries or relative progression from the academy with lack of experience.
Underlined denoted players who relatively recently progressed from the academy. Player who are red denotes a history (recent or historical) of injury plagued seasons.

There are a range of things to be concerned about this forthcoming season should nothing change in terms of incoming signings.

These are the issues I believe need addressing:
1- Lack of consistent forward goalscorer should one or both of Armstrong/Dack sustain lengthy injuries or hit a poor run of form. Gallagher, Brereton and Butterworth have no history of being consistent goalscorers to a degree that could keep them running for 6 months

2- Depth at the CB position. Should Williams and Mulgrew go as expected, it leaves us with Lenihan, Magloire and Carter from the above listed players with the likes of Travis/Nyambe capable of playing out of position, but not ideal

3- Right back. We have Nyambe who has fitness issues and Bennett when played out of position.

4- Left back. We have Bell and that is it really?

5- Wing options. Bennett, Chapman, Dolan, Buckley, Gallagher and Brereton. With our reduction in forward options, it should be expected that Gallagher and Brereton will be used out wide. That puts a high dependency on young heads to succeed on the wing.

6- To a lesser degree center-midfield. Our options are Johnson, Dack, Evans, Travis, Rothwell, Davenport, JRC, Holtby. Whilst many might argue this is a position we are most stocked in. I see a lot of players who have lengthy injury histories and again, young heads, topped off with a center midfielder who suffers from horrendous inconsistency.

From JoeH's list above. We have David Raya who played 46 games, Derrick Williams who played 29 games, Jack Rodwell who played 22 games, Charlie Mulgrew who played 31 games, Harrison Reed who played 36 games, Richie Smallwood who played 33 games, Craig Conway who played 26 games, Danny Graham who played 46 games, Joe Nuttall who played 18 games and Kasey Palmer (not on the list) who was on loan from Chelsea and played 17 games. That is 304 games played of players that are now not available to us.

Excluding the solitary new signing in our keeper, we have 214 appearances of players from last seasons players expected to depart. That is 214 appearances where Mowbray decided to play players we have either had end loan or Mowbray has deemed nolonger good enough or unable to sign a new contract to this season with no additions except for the keeper.

Top post. Agree with all of it except to say that Lenihen should also be marked in red as an injury worry. Last season was the only one he wasn't massively out for. 

In defence of TM a lot of those players whose game time we have lost were getting on in age and wouldn't be here now or performing at the same levels. In criticism of TM their ages weren't a surprise and he should have known they would need replacing. It's not rocket science that aging players need replacing...

 

[Guest]

Just now, Vilesinner said:

Yeah, I think our squad is stronger without a doubt. I doubt we could sign anyone as good as JRC. 

I wonder could Maglorie and Grayson could play fullback if required. Wharton being left sides is also handy.

We definitely do have options if need be.

Please tell me you’re joking.

[Vilesinner]

1 minute ago, alex l said:

Perhaps some have a different definition of world class. Mbappe is  a world class young player, ansu fati and greenwood show signs they could be world class. JRC has played perhaps a dozen first team games in the second tier. If we get a solid or better first team player out of him I'm sure all will be delighted, but if he had any indication of being world class, he wouldn't be playing for us. 

Looked a class above everyone else in the friendly against Leicester imo. 

I certainly wouldn't swap him for anyone.

[Blue blood]

2 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I think there's enough relegation fodder, League One standard teams in the division this year to not have to worry too much.

That's a dangerous road to go down Joe. We can't be relying on that. Also not.convinced that a good manager can't have these teams punching above their weight. Look how Luton and Barnsley finished the season for example. 

[martonrover]

2 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

That was then - we have little money now was my point.  The distant owners explains the rest of your points.  Please do read.

Well we were reportedly set to shell out the best part of a million on a defender.  Okay, that's not mega bucks, but it's still competitive in this division.

It's not all about the money, anyway. The way we always fold when there is something riding on a game epitomises the mentality instilled by Mowbray.

We do not have enough grit or a belief we can succeed.

As others have pointed out, our recruitment process appears to be too slow and on a one a time basis.

Re - the distant owners, I am just relating my points to the fact they are physically "distant".

Sorry if my reply came across as abrasive. I wasn't aiming it at you personally. Just my take on it.

[alex l]

Just now, Vilesinner said:

Looked a class above everyone else in the friendly against Leicester imo. 

I certainly wouldn't swap him for anyone.

But does that make him world class or potentially world class? No. 

[Blue blood]

3 minutes ago, JoeH said:

When we signed them matters if we're comparing to other clubs. Plenty of teams in our league have a far higher transfer spend than us over let's say a four or five year period. If we're just looking recently then yes, we're up there, but not if we're saying time is an irrelevant factor. 

Look at the money and wages spent by some clubs in general over the last half decade, we have the 16th highest wage budget in the division. 

Think it's a bit of both really. We have had ample money but likewise so have a number of other clubs. 

Where we have been outspent we have had some advantages of a) not having to sell anyone we don't want to and b) having zero pressure on results. It's not the same as a bigger budget but these two factors should have meant we have been doing better. Am sure a number of managers would trade in their superior budget for these advantages. 

[Hi Mack]

2 minutes ago, Vilesinner said:

Looked a class above everyone else in the friendly against Leicester imo. 

I certainly wouldn't swap him for anyone.

I know what your points are but to claim he is world class and you”wouldn’t change him for anyone” I think this Is a major OTT statement.

JRC will do well for us if he carries on...let’s not lose site here.

[JHRover]

Just now, JoeH said:

I think there's enough relegation fodder, League One standard teams in the division this year to not have to worry too much.

Who?

Perhaps Wycombe, Rotherham, Luton, Barnsley.

Not sure who else comes into the 'folder' category

There's the 3 relegated clubs. Then sides like Forest, Derby, Brentford, Millwall, Swansea, Cardiff, Preston, Bristol City who finished above or alongside us last year.

The other 8 clubs remaining we have Warnock's Middlesbrough (likely to be up there due to him alone), Huddersfield (unknown entity), Stoke (will spend and likely to improve with their squad and manager), Birmingham (new decent manager and made some good signings), Reading (unknown entity but some good players in their squad), QPR maybe or maybe not, Coventry may struggle but have upwards momentum and Sheffield Wednesday who will be hamstrung by their points deduction but aren't a bad side on paper.

I don't see an abundance of clubs I'd put money on us finishing above. A handful maybe.

[DE.]

I think there's every chance JRC will develop into a solid first teamer for us, but world class? Come on now. If that was true the lad wouldn't be here only just breaking into the first team at 21. More likely he'll end up at a similar level to Travis, I'd think. 

[davulsukur]

I think the frustration for me is that we do have some good players. Last season, at one point a play off push looked like it was on the cards, ultimately we fell short (badly).

So the plan for this summer should have been to build on that. Try and keep hold of our core players (Arma, Dack, Trav, Nyambe, Lenihan etc.) and improve the weakest areas. 

We aren't a million miles away, i think we have a chance to make a genuine attempt at making the play offs this season but only if we can sign a centre back (or 2) and a left back. 

Our manager seems far too relaxed about the situation and we don't seem to be progressing with any real urgency to sign anybody.

When this season is done and we go into the next summer, i think we will look back on this season as real wasted opportunity, we are likely to lose a couple of our better players as well. Dack, Arma, Travis, Nyambe, Lenihan have all (bar Nyambe) been linked with moves away in the past so you would imagine clubs are keeping tabs on them.

The chance we have now might not be there next summer but it feels like we aren't trying to grasp the nettle and go for it, a real shame.

[Blue blood]

6 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Who?

Perhaps Wycombe, Rotherham, Luton, Barnsley.

Not sure who else comes into the 'folder' category

There's the 3 relegated clubs. Then sides like Forest, Derby, Brentford, Millwall, Swansea, Cardiff, Preston, Bristol City who finished above or alongside us last year.

The other 8 clubs remaining we have Warnock's Middlesbrough (likely to be up there due to him alone), Huddersfield (unknown entity), Stoke (will spend and likely to improve with their squad and manager), Birmingham (new decent manager and made some good signings), Reading (unknown entity but some good players in their squad), QPR maybe or maybe not, Coventry may struggle but have upwards momentum and Sheffield Wednesday who will be hamstrung by their points deduction but aren't a bad side on paper.

I don't see an abundance of clubs I'd put money on us finishing above. A handful maybe.

Look at how Luton and Barnsley finished. Don't think they will be the pushovers people think. 

Brum and Reading more likely to fold imo as both are basket case clubs with mediocre squads. 

Either way we are looking at 4 potential candidates which as you say is hardly an abundance of clubs. 

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, Ruaney said:

So why should we discredit others with 'news'?

I'm not, there just is no evidence of us going for Mawsom and Kipre

Edited September 8, 2020 by Sparks Rover

[Ruaney]

1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm not, there just is no evidence of us going for Mawsom and Kipre

There's no evidence of us going for Whiteman though?

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

In fact sides like Preston and Millwall who finished above us last season probably couldn't even put out an 11 that cost that much never mind a front 3.

AFC Bournemouth have spent £145,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Cardiff City have spent £77,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Nottingham Forest have spent £36,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Swansea City have spent £115,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Middlesbrough have spent £143,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
QPR have spent £105,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Brentford have spent £52,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Hull City have spent £59,000,000 on transfers since 2016. (now in League One)
Reading have spent £31,500,000 on transfers since 2016.
Sheffield Wednesday have spent £27,800,000 on transfers since 2016.
Huddersfield Town have spent £103,500,000 on transfers since 2016.
Wigan Athletic have spent £15,500,000 on transfers since 2016. (now in League One)
Birmingham City have spent £38,500,000 on transfers since 2016.
Stoke City have spent £146,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Ipswich Town have spent £12,000,000 on transfers since 2016. (now in League One)

Rovers have spent an estimated £21,500,000 on transfers since 2016. (incl. all the addons for Brereton and Gallagher that may not yet have been paid). This narrative that we're huge spenders because of two deals in 2018/19 is simply unfounded.

The list of teams who've spent more than us since 2016 far outweighs the list of teams who've spent less.

There's only us, Preston and Millwall that fit into the category of succeeding without spending too much. PNE have spent £9,500,000 since 2016, and Millwall I can't get a final figure on (but it's low).

Edited September 8, 2020 by JoeH

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, JoeH said:

AFC Bournemouth have spent £145,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Cardiff City have spent £77,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Nottingham Forest have spent £36,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Swansea City have spent £115,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Middlesbrough have spent £143,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Brentford have spent £52,000,000 on transfers since 2016.
Hull City have spent £59,000,000 on transfers since 2016. (now in League One)
Reading have spent £31,500,000 on transfers since 2016.
Sheffield Wednesday have spent £27,800,000 on transfers since 2016.
Huddersfield Town have spent £103,500,000 on transfers since 2016.
Wigan Athletic have spent £15,500,000 on transfers since 2016. (now in League One)
Birmingham City have spent £38,500,000 on transfers since 2016.

Rovers have spent an estimated £21,500,000 on transfers since 2016. (incl. all the addons for Brereton and Gallagher that may not yet have been paid). This narrative that we're huge spenders because of two deals in 2018/19 is simply unfounded.

The list of teams who've spent more than us since 2016 far outweighs the list of teams who've spent less.

There's only us, Preston and Millwall that fit into the category of succeeding without spending too much. PNE have spent £9,500,000 since 2016, and Millwall I can't get a final figure on (but it's low).

A net figure would be more relevant. PNE, for example, have raked in a lot more than the £9.5m you say they've spent. Mowbray has been fortunate he's only had to sell Raya. 

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm not, there just is no evidence of us going for Mawsom and Kipre

No evidence we agreed a fee for Kipre?

[frosty]

Two people think JRC will be world class? ? I like him and think he'll be a good player for us, but that's one of the maddest things I've read on here - he's 21 and has played a handful of senior football matches!

 

[rovers11]

Stating the obvious but it's almost certain we'll be starting the early part of the season without any reinforcements aside from our new GK obviously. In that case, we have to go with a CB pairing of Lenihan and Williams IMO. The absolute key signing was a GK so thankfully we have got one of those in. I would dread to think how many soft goals we would have lost if Fisher had to start the season in goal for us. As it stands, we are staring at a lower mid finish in the league. 

Personally, I think we'll see Liam Lindsay end up here as our main CB signing. TM is known admirer and he'll be within our price range. 

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

A net figure would be more relevant. 

I don't think it would, we're talking here about transfer spend, not the ways in which those transfers have been funded. I think it's a great thing that we don't sell our greatest assets all the time like some clubs, or yoyo between leagues like Wigan, Rotherham or West Brom.

[OssyLad]

Looks as though Tom White is impressing at Wanky Wanderers. Tipping him for a big future

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, JoeH said:

I don't think it would, we're talking here about transfer spend, not the ways in which those transfers have been funded. I think it's a great thing that we don't sell our greatest assets all the time like some clubs, or yoyo between leagues like Wigan, Rotherham or West Brom.

Net spend is the only true indicator.