Summer Transfer Window

[bluebruce]

1 minute ago, Jlee1984 said:

 

So what the difference between selling him for The price we did with sell on clause, Or a straight 5-6 million deal? In the end we got the cash

You think we are going to get another 2-3 million off the sell on? They're often percentage of profit and reports are it's 20%. 20% of 7 million (profit) is 1.4 million.

Conversely we could have been looking at 10 million ish, in a straight deal, by not selling him at all that summer. 'Player wanted out'? Tony made that happen by chewing him out in public and letting veterans make mistakes with no consequence.

[chaddyrovers]

5 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

You're absolutely relentless.

His agent did it last summer and doing it again.

 

[bluebruce]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

His agent did it last summer and doing it again.

 

You did it last summer, and the last however many summers, and you're doing it again.

[Rover8T4]

Just now, bluebruce said:

You think we are going to get another 2-3 million off the sell on? They're often percentage of profit and reports are it's 20%. 20% of 7 million (profit) is 1.4 million.

Conversely we could have been looking at 10 million ish, in a straight deal, by not selling him at all that summer. 'Player wanted out'? Tony made that happen by chewing him out in public and letting veterans make mistakes with no consequence.

Arsenal would never of come to us for him! The goalkeeping coach from Brentford moved to Arsenal and his opinion will matter in this deal, 

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

10 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Well no, because we are happy to sell for peanuts. Even if he had a 10 mill market value with Arsenal snooping we would let him go for about 6 I reckon. 'We couldn't stand in David's way by asking an unreasonable fee, we had to do right by the player and let him go as soon as Arsenal were interested. Not a problem anyway, there's this bright young keeper at Brighton we can loan, we will be fine.'

We can't consider it a successful piece of business because after what, 6 years of developing him, we will have let Brentford make more money off him in a year.

Not sure where this is coming from. Selling players for peanuts? We certainly got market value for Rhodes and Jones when they were sold. We’re useless at signing players but not sure we’re as bad at selling them. We haven’t actually sold many of our better players over the last 2/3 years. Let’s see how much Dack and Armstrong go for.

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, bluebruce said:

You did it last summer, and the last however many summers, and you're doing it again.

On Raya?

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

So 10% - 15% of the Raya fee would be a tidy sum to invest in a defender or two. 

[bluebruce]

2 minutes ago, Jlee1984 said:

Arsenal would never of come to us for him! The goalkeeping coach from Brentford moved to Arsenal and his opinion will matter in this deal, 

So your theory is the guy who got him brought him to Brentford would have just lost interest if we had kept him another year? I mean it's possible but I doubt it. Expect he still would have been saying 'hey, you want this Raya lad'.

[m1st]

2 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

I guess that would be Morsy Code for we tried again, but.....

Leonard!!! That's so bad, it's - almost - good!!?

[bluebruce]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

On Raya?

Oh for...I can barely be bothered to explain it to you at this point, as much as I appreciate your passion for football and the club. But no, I was referring to your relentless defence of 99.9% of whatever the club and management do, even when it's a blatant fail.

[tomphil]

8 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

You think we are going to get another 2-3 million off the sell on? They're often percentage of profit and reports are it's 20%. 20% of 7 million (profit) is 1.4 million.

Conversely we could have been looking at 10 million ish, in a straight deal, by not selling him at all that summer. 'Player wanted out'? Tony made that happen by chewing him out in public and letting veterans make mistakes with no consequence.

If he'd bit the bullet on Mulgrew earlier and got a proper solid center back in then it might not have come to that. He eventually got around to nailing the experienced guy who was most at fault, only to bring him back in once Raya had left with predictable consequences.

It takes many many repeats of the same thing for the penny to finally drop.

[Rover8T4]

2 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

So your theory is the guy who got him brought him to Brentford would have just lost interest if we had kept him another year? I mean it's possible but I doubt it. Expect he still would have been saying 'hey, you want this Raya lad'.

Yes that is my theory, We will disagree on this subject because I don’t think his value would of Risen by that much playing for us last season unless we were fighting top end of the table,

[RoversClitheroe]

20 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Raya and his agent forcing a move again. No surprise.

 

Chaddy Chaddy Chaddy, it wasn't his agent, it was more the public thrashings Mowbray kept giving Raya that made the move happen.

Mowbray didn't rate him for some ridiculous reason.

The opportunity to move to the premier League and play for Arsenal or Brentford in the championship, easy choice.

Let's not get ridiculous please.

[bluebruce]

10 minutes ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

Not sure where this is coming from. Selling players for peanuts? We certainly got market value for Rhodes and Jones when they were sold. We’re useless at signing players but not sure we’re as bad at selling them. We haven’t actually sold many of our better players over the last 2/3 years. Let’s see how much Dack and Armstrong go for.

I was referring to the state under the current regime (TM and SW). We haven't sold much under them, but I do get the impression TM will sell a player for whatever once they want to leave (not literally before anyone starts, but for less than we could get with a firmer stance). Raya does back that up so far. And if they don't want to leave I bet they're barely for sale (his comments in pressers have given me that impression, he always says he won't force players to leave). Time will tell though, not much selling been done under him yet.

I was disgusted with the fees for Cairney, Marshall (though he had started going off the boil really) and Gestede btw if we want to go further back. Jones was a release clause at a few million less than Liverpool were willing to pay. I disapproved of a lot of sales in the Trust era tbf, think I'd be more from the Levy school of negotiations if I were a CEO...

Edited September 10, 2020 by bluebruce

[SBlue]

58 minutes ago, tomphil said:

My take on Raya is he'll know Brentford sell players after they've polished them up a bit so he'll be flogged sooner or later whether he likes it o  not. When that time comes it might not be Arsenal knocking on the door these chances don't come often, then there's the coach angle.

If you're going to be a no 2 anywhere then why not there, lets just take our cut and wish him well.

Andy Lonergan was just on the Undr the Cosh podcast talking about moving from a championship career to a “big 6” squad member and the differences in standards, how well you are looked after in order to succeed etc sounds absolutely unbelievable. Raya would be stupid not to want to go at his age.

21 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Can’t believe anyone would begrudge Raya the chance to sign for Arsenal!

This.

[Mercer]

1 minute ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Chaddy Chaddy Chaddy, it wasn't his agent, it was more the public thrashings Mowbray kept giving Raya that made the move happen.

Mowbray didn't rate him for some ridiculous reason.

The opportunity to move to the premier League and play for Arsenal or Brentford in the championship, easy choice.

Let's not get ridiculous please.

Add to that the, IMO, the insignificance of our goalie coach Benson!

[tomphil]

Just now, S8 & Blue said:

Andy Lonergan was just on the Undr the Cosh podcast talking about moving from a championship career to a “big 6” squad member and the differences in standards, how well you are looked after in order to succeed etc sounds absolutely unbelievable. Raya would be stupid not to want to go at his age.

This.

I think it will suit him down to the ground the kind of keeper he is playing it out from the back quick etc. Top class club and set up and he has a chance there although it might take time. 25 no age for a keeper and he'll get some European exposure there probably so if it doesn't work after a few seasons he'll go abroad.

[Blue blood]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Did I say that? Rovers make mistakes in the market. But you judge at the end of a window when you sign or not sign the players we want, and how the new signings performed. Like Walton was awful signing in the end where Downing and Adarabioyo were good signings. 

Wonders never cease, a criticism of Rovers. Did you say we can do no wrong - yes you did by implicatiin and insinuation. I've explained how the English language works involving implication and insinuation multiple times so won't again. Suffice to say your posts clearly do absolve Rovers of any blame in the transfer market. 

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Wonder why you say cos it suit your opinion. Levy is one of the best chairman in the game. 

Yes Coventry have signed some of those players but would you wanted any here and would they improve our starting 11? 

Again the hypocrisy kicks in. Y'see we wouldn't be in for the big transfers Levy was talking about however this counts as a valid comparison. But Coventry aren't a valid comparison (despite being in the same division) because we wouldn't want any of their players. So help me out here - is comparison with other teams allowed or not allowed even if the players are of a different level? 

I think you need to refrain from defending  Rovers as each day you are tying yourself in knots with contradictions. This is the second or third one from just today! 

[Ossydave]

Surely Arsenal wouldn't want Raya as first choice? Leno is a far better keeper and only in his prime right now. I hope he does get the move from a selfish money grabbing perspective, but cash aside it would be a poor career decision to go bench warming at the Emirates. 

[Blue blood]

14 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Oh for...I can barely be bothered to explain it to you at this point, as much as I appreciate your passion for football and the club. But no, I was referring to your relentless defence of 99.9% of whatever the club and management do, even when it's a blatant fail.

This!!! 

[bluebruce]

9 minutes ago, Jlee1984 said:

Yes that is my theory, We will disagree on this subject because I don’t think his value would of Risen by that much playing for us last season unless we were fighting top end of the table,

You don't think having Raya instead of Walton would have improved our position in the table though? Maybe we would have made the playoffs, maybe not (small margins in games in this league, and a win at the right time builds momentum), but I'm entirely certain we would have been closer than we were.

[Rover8T4]

5 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

You don't think having Raya instead of Walton would have improved our position in the table though? Maybe we would have made the playoffs, maybe not (small margins in games in this league, and a win at the right time builds momentum), but I'm entirely certain we would have been closer than we were.

I do think he was a better keeper than Walton, And he would of won us points for sure, If Arma were at Brentford he would be valued more, That’s what I’m trying to say, 

Edited September 10, 2020 by Jlee1984

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Like many others, I felt he cost us too many goals. I thought the decision to sell him was reasonable, based on what I had seen with my own eyes. That was after Steele and before I saw Walton! I did feel the fee was a bit small.

Raya has certainly performed a lot better this last year. Maybe, he has improved with a better defence and better coaching. He has certainly improved. 

A bit galling to see Brentford making all that money on our product, I will concede that.

He's not good enough for the Prem - but he's everything wrong with the national game. There must be a dozen English keepers better than him, but Arsenal are after another foreigner.

Edited September 10, 2020 by Exiled_Rover

[Gamst]

Clubs coming in for our targets 'at the last minute' is becoming a theme. If you dither for long enough then there are more potential 'last minutes' for others to capitalise on. Our dithering and lack of decisiveness is chronic. If an agreement was in place for Ayala on the Saturday why didn't we have him in to sign on the Monday? By the Thursday there was still optimism about the deal and then by the Saturday it was all over and he's supposedly off to Saudi. If you dither for long enough its inevitable that others will sniff around and this is even more likely when its  decent player. If a player of that stature is ready to sign then quit hanging around and get it signed! 

[Russ]