Summer Transfer Window

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, 47er said:

Dobing had the talent but not the heart. I've seen him walk off a muddy Ewood without a mark on his kit while everyone else was covered in it!

He'd be jeered off at halftime as he entered the tunnel. Seen that more than once.

Was mercurially brilliant though.

He was a class act on his day. Good enough to drop back into a more advanced midfield role and be able to pull the strings at Stoke once he'd lost that burst of pace. Signed as Denis Law's replacement at 'City.

[47er]

18 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He was a class act on his day. Good enough to drop back into a more advanced midfield role and be able to pull the strings at Stoke once he'd lost that burst of pace. Signed as Denis Law's replacement at 'City.

Once back in midfield he did a sterling job at Stoke and greatly prolonged his career till he sadly broke his leg.

But what I said about him at Blackburn is true.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, markhayhurst said:

I recall a bid 6 months earlier for Jones by Ferguson , which for some reason didn’t happen, then a new contract and the clause added and then 6 months later a sale. You tell me the version of events and who benefited And why . 

My recollection was that Jones had a relatively nominal release clause in his original contract which according to Jerome Anderson was renegotiated and replaced by a figure of £16m in his new deal in the window when we also signed Rochina, Formica etc.

Man Ure came in for him  at some point later, Venky's dug their heels in a bit and my recollection was we got more than the £16m in the release clause.

For all we know we might have lost him for a relative pittance had he not signed a new contract with the improved clause. Either way I can't see that the fact Manure knew about it is a particularly big deal, if these things are meant to be a state secret how did Chelsea know about Duff's £17m release clause? I'd imagine if a Club wants to sell or a player wants to leave a Club I'd imagine its relatively common place that would be suitors are tipped off either by the Club themselves or the players' agent.

[jim mk2]

Dobing left in 1961 just before I started to watch Rovers. Shame I never saw him live but remember watching him with George Eastham in probably the best team Stoke ever had. Should have played for England but England had so many brilliant players to choose from he never got a chance. Manchester City paid £37,000 to sign him from us ..... a huge fee at the time. He's still around, aged 81. 

[bluebruce]

So if I have it right, the window for non-domestic signings closes on Monday? If the vaunted European scouting network is going to deliver us more than one player this year (or in other words, ever...so far) it is quickly running out of time.

Like others, I find it very hard to believe a cheap left back who is better than Bell can't be sourced on the continent. Scandinavian, Eastern European and French markets tend to be pretty cheap for the level of player we'd need. Holland? Belgium? I really don't see how Amari'i Bell from Fleetwood can be the best we could have done in the last few years in the few hundred k price range he cost. Even though he has been a bit better recently and actually had a good game against Derby.

(The full window, aka domestic window closing too, doesn't happen til 16th October btw, before anyone panics too much...just think Europe must be our best bet at filling this key position on our apparently limited budget)

Edited September 30, 2020 by bluebruce

[islander200]

The domestic window running from the 5th to the 16th is going to be a nervy time if any prem league strikers get injured as prem clubs can't buy or loan from eachother can only buy from EFL so Armstrong would have to come into their thinking 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12028475/transfer-window-deadline-day-key-dates-and-times-for-summer-2020

Edited September 30, 2020 by islander200

[Paul Mani]

4 hours ago, bluebruce said:

So if I have it right, the window for non-domestic signings closes on Monday? If the vaunted European scouting network is going to deliver us more than one player this year (or in other words, ever...so far) it is quickly running out of time.

Like others, I find it very hard to believe a cheap left back who is better than Bell can't be sourced on the continent. Scandinavian, Eastern European and French markets tend to be pretty cheap for the level of player we'd need. Holland? Belgium? I really don't see how Amari'i Bell from Fleetwood can be the best we could have done in the last few years in the few hundred k price range he cost. Even though he has been a bit better recently and actually had a good game against Derby.

(The full window, aka domestic window closing too, doesn't happen til 16th October btw, before anyone panics too much...just think Europe must be our best bet at filling this key position on our apparently limited budget)

I still think a deal for Manning might happen. The guy isn’t even appearing on their bench at the moment...

Agree re the European scouting network and feel the best chance of utilising it again this window is for another keeper. Although, having watched Kaminski four times now, he looks better than Raya and Walton combined and is worth the set up on his own!

Sign one player per window at that age and level and you’re going in the right direction! 

Edited September 30, 2020 by Paul Mani

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

28 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I still think a deal for Manning might happen. The guy isn’t even appearing on their bench at the moment...

Agree re the European scouting network and feel the best chance of utilising it again this window is for another keeper. Although, having watched Kaminski four times now, he looks better than Raya and Walton combined and is worth the set up on his own!

Sign one player per window at that age and level and you’re going in the right direction! 

If you combined Raya and Walton poor David would be significantly worse. I do agree Kaminski looks like a superb signing for the money though. 

[AllRoverAsia]

53 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I still think a deal for Manning might happen. The guy isn’t even appearing on their bench at the moment...

Agree re the European scouting network and feel the best chance of utilising it again this window is for another keeper. Although, having watched Kaminski four times now, he looks better than Raya and Walton combined and is worth the set up on his own!

Sign one player per window at that age and level and you’re going in the right direction! 

You're right, good business and justifies the cost of the system.

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

The domestic window running from the 5th to the 16th is going to be a nervy time if any prem league strikers get injured as prem clubs can't buy or loan from eachother can only buy from EFL so Armstrong would have to come into their thinking 

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12028475/transfer-window-deadline-day-key-dates-and-times-for-summer-2020

The extension is simply to assist the top PL clubs get shut of their excess stock.

The knock-on effect is that EFL clubs can get late loans but can get raided at a time a player loss will be difficult to fix.

For EFL clubs to rely on these late loans to finalise their squads is a paupers shit at the wall approach.

[islander200]

3 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

The extension is simply to assist the top PL clubs get shut of their excess stock.

The knock-on effect is that EFL clubs can get late loans but can get raided at a time a player loss will be difficult to fix.

For EFL clubs to rely on these late loans to finalise their squads is a paupers shit at the wall approach.

Premier league clubs can still buy from EFL teams so like I say an injury too an attacker could see Armstrong getting interest from premier League teams.

 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

I still think a deal for Manning might happen. The guy isn’t even appearing on their bench at the moment...

Agree re the European scouting network and feel the best chance of utilising it again this window is for another keeper. Although, having watched Kaminski four times now, he looks better than Raya and Walton combined and is worth the set up on his own!

Sign one player per window at that age and level and you’re going in the right direction! 

That extra experience shows and it's vital for keepers, the way he's transitioned to a new country, team and style shows he's a cool customer.

 

[G Somerset Rover]

So our famed European scouting team has only 5 days to make another signing?

Edited September 30, 2020 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[tomphil]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

My recollection was that Jones had a relatively nominal release clause in his original contract which according to Jerome Anderson was renegotiated and replaced by a figure of £16m in his new deal in the window when we also signed Rochina, Formica etc.

Man Ure came in for him  at some point later, Venky's dug their heels in a bit and my recollection was we got more than the £16m in the release clause.

For all we know we might have lost him for a relative pittance had he not signed a new contract with the improved clause. Either way I can't see that the fact Manure knew about it is a particularly big deal, if these things are meant to be a state secret how did Chelsea know about Duff's £17m release clause? I'd imagine if a Club wants to sell or a player wants to leave a Club I'd imagine its relatively common place that would be suitors are tipped off either by the Club themselves or the players' agent.

Think the Jones deal was expected to run close to 20 million once all the clauses had been met. Fair to say they probably have now so a rare moment of usefulness from Anderson getting almost the fee Venkys paid to buy Rovers back in one deal.

Sadly that might have contributed to why he was around so long also.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Think the Jones deal was expected to run close to 20 million once all the clauses had been met. Fair to say they probably have now so a rare moment of usefulness from Anderson getting almost the fee Venkys paid to buy Rovers back in one deal.

Sadly that might have contributed to why he was around so long also.

It still disgusts me to this day that that snake could profiteer from Rovers the way he did. Football was, and still is, so unregulated that it'll always attract those types. I hope he gets his comeuppance one day. 

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

It still disgusts me to this day that that snake could profiteer from Rovers the way he did. Football was, and still is, so unregulated that it'll always attract those types. I hope he gets his comeuppance one day. 

Yeah at the end of the day snake oil salesmen like him shouldn't be able to do what they do but this stinking industry doesn't so much as allow it it actually invites it.

 

[AllRoverAsia]

48 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Premier league clubs can still buy from EFL teams so like I say an injury too an attacker could see Armstrong getting interest from premier League teams.

 

Exactly right

[TimmyJimmy]

1 hour ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

So our famed European scouting team has only 5 days to make another signing?

Don't forget though, the new system has worked, it has unearthed a number of players. Not the networks fault that they signed elsewhere for more cash (presumably). We have to give new setups like this time to grow into the various leagues (and there's a lot of them to cover). As it matures it will have more and more gems on it's radar. IMO.

[philipl]

3 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I still think a deal for Manning might happen. The guy isn’t even appearing on their bench at the moment...

I really hope so.

[alex l]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

Think the Jones deal was expected to run close to 20 million once all the clauses had been met. Fair to say they probably have now so a rare moment of usefulness from Anderson getting almost the fee Venkys paid to buy Rovers back in one deal.

Sadly that might have contributed to why he was around so long also.

I'm sure some of the add ons were reported as based on competitive international appearances, which looked a shoe in at the time, but he's not played many competitive games for England. 

[philipl]

On 27/09/2020 at 10:25, Blue blood said:

Personally I still think we need 3 or 4 in though with budget restrictions don't think it will happen. 

Everyone is in agreement about a back up keeper and left back. Left back is our biggest weakness in the first 11, whilst a back up keeper is like breakdown insurance. If you need to call on it, you are very glad you have it. 

I think CM is a huge priority. How long can Johnson keep his form and fitness up? Even if he does and he and Rothwell are forming a good partnership, after that the cupboard is bare. Travis has a long term injury , Evans is always injured and cannot be relied upon. (Seriously get rid and have someone available for more than half our games.) Davenport I feel TM doesn't rate or trust. So one injury , suspension or drop of form in cm and we are struggling. 

I also think a wide forward is needed. Perhaps less so with Gally and Dack to come back but both strike me as more central players leaving us a bit short out wide. Sure Armstrong can play there but outside of that it's a bit thin. Again I think TM doesn't rate or trust (and not sure I do either.) That leaves us with issues of natural level with Bereton, that all 3 wide players are young and may have a drop off in confidence/may find the season grueling and we don't want to put too much pressure on them, whilst JRC also is sometimes called to serve as full back. Add in injuries and suspensions and a wide forward seems like an astute addition. 

That said this is all a wish list and probably won't happen. We can only hope Venkys see the league position, get excited and free up some more funds. 

Sorry to pick on a random post but I simply do not buy this argument our squad is wafer thin.

We have just beaten one of the ante-post favourites 4-0 away and we had these players unavailable:

Ayala

Travis 

Evans

Dack

Gallagher

Butterworth

Vale

and had JRC go off injured

...all of whom ordinarily would be in contention for the match day 18.

And three days later the under-23s beat Leicester 4-0 and even got stronger when the subs came on. And the Under 23s are 4th in Division 1 of Premier League 2 with a game in hand on the three clubs above them.

 

This most certainly is not what a thin squad looks like.

It is though, a squad that needs strengthening in two very specific areas if we are to turn a promising start into a promising first ten games, then a promising first half to the season and ultimately a successful promotion campaign

- a first choice senior left back and a back-up Keeper, both of whom are outstanding and not merely time proven Championship journeymen

Edited September 30, 2020 by philipl

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, philipl said:

And the Under 23s are 4th in Division 1 of Premier League 2 with a game in hand on the three clubs above them.

It's frustrating as teams like Manchester United, who've spent years in divisions below us at that level, and currently sit bottom of the PL2 table, can keep producing McTominay's and Williams for their first team. JRC, Trav, Bucko and our lot are just as good, just as promising and it's nice to finally see these lads get the game time they've earned.

There's nothing stopping our academy except perception. The first reaction to any young, promising player is that he won't be ready. Dolan got it, Buckley gets it. Just give these lads time, like these Premier League clubs do.

[JacknOry]

31 minutes ago, philipl said:

Sorry to pick on a random post but I simply do not buy this argument our squad is wafer thin.

We have just beaten one of the ante-post favourites 4-0 away and we had these players unavailable:

Ayala

Travis 

Evans

Dack

Gallagher

Butterworth

Vale

and had JRC go off injured

...all of whom ordinarily would be in contention for the match day 18.

And three days later the under-23s beat Leicester 4-0 and even got stronger when the subs came on. And the Under 23s are 4th in Division 1 of Premier League 2 with a game in hand on the three clubs above them.

 

This most certainly is not what a thin squad looks like.

It is though, a squad that needs strengthening in two very specific areas if we are to turn a promising start into a promising first ten games, then a promising first half to the season and ultimately a successful promotion campaign

- a first choice senior left back and a back-up Keeper, both of whom are outstanding and not merely time proven Championship journeymen

It might not be wafer thin but there are some areas that need further strengthening in an ideal world. On top of the LB and backup goalie we could do with a couple more at least.

All 3 of our CBs are injury-prone (that includes Ayala), we then just have Wharton and some untested kids. Nyambe is injury-prone, we have Bennett and JRC (already injured) backing him up and they are not even RBs. Get a couple of injuries in these positions at the same time and we could be in trouble. 

Edited September 30, 2020 by JacknOry

[darrenrover]

26 minutes ago, philipl said:

Sorry to pick on a random post but I simply do not buy this argument our squad is wafer thin.

We have just beaten one of the ante-post favourites 4-0 away and we had these players unavailable:

Ayala

Travis 

Evans

Dack

Gallagher

Butterworth

Vale

and had JRC go off injured

...all of whom ordinarily would be in contention for the match day 18.

And three days later the under-23s beat Leicester 4-0 and even got stronger when the subs came on. And the Under 23s are 4th in Division 1 of Premier League 2 with a game in hand on the three clubs above them.

 

This most certainly is not what a thin squad looks like.

It is though, a squad that needs strengthening in two very specific areas if we are to turn a promising start into a promising first ten games, then a promising first half to the season and ultimately a successful promotion campaign

- a first choice senior left back and a back-up Keeper, both of whom are outstanding and not merely time proven Championship journeymen

I totally agree with you Philip. The worry is does Mowbray? The last thing we need are 'random squad fillers' imo but do need a quality left back who can both defend and work the line. Bell can't defend adequately and whilst he gets up and down the flank, there is seldom an end product.

[philipl]

1 minute ago, JacknOry said:

it might not be wafer thin but there are some areas that need further strengthening in an ideal world. On top of the LB and backup goalie we could do with a couple more at least.

All 3 of our CBs are injury-prone (that includes Ayala), we then just have Wharton and some untested kids. Nyambe is injury-prone, we have Bennett and JRC (already injured) backing him up and they are not even RBs. get a couple of injuries in these positions at the same time and we could be in trouble. 

I'd be injury prone if I were a pro footballer.

I think this is completely over doing it.

I always look for a squad to have five central defenders- Ayala, Lenihan and Williams are seasoned pros at this level and one will be a bench warmer while Carter and Wharton have shown they can do a job.

As you rightly say we have cover through flexibility at right back and the under 23 right back is impressing.

I would focus 100% on quality over quantity. Get a promotion-capable left back. We are short of left footers as well so that would also add to flexibility in the squad.

The "couple more at least" are going to come through the development squad. Buckley and Chapman were easily the class acts on the park on Tuesday night.