Summer Transfer Window

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

Roughly translated: when arteta sat down and actually put some thought into his number 2 keeper, he wanted someone the right height, who doesn't make stupid mistakes and is comfortable with the ball at his feet.

None of that sounds like a reason for Raya to sign a new deal with Brentford. Another interpretation could easily be, based on what we've heard, Brentford were refusing to sell for less than £15 million, which is a lot for a Championship keeper who cost £3 million last summer, and also having him loaned back to them, Arsenal were understandably reluctant to do business on those terms but still lurking, so Raya's agent took the opportunity to pressure Brentford into a big wage bump to put the matter to bed and get their top keeper playing again without this spectre over his head to distract him. Brentford had the choices then of selling him for less than they see his worth to them, which is clearly far far higher than we saw his worth to us, having an unhappy keeper all season and probably losing him for less in future as a result as his value dropped, or paying him a lot more money. They've gone with a lot more money, to protect what they see as a valuable asset.

A whole range of interpretations inbetween yours and the one I just suggested are possible of course, but ultimately there's no point discussing them at length, as we simply don't know what has gone on. Using it as a stick to beat Raya with again is daft. He just had a summer were there was clear interest in him from a massive club, his existing club fought hard against that interest and put a huge price tag on him, and he came away with a pay rise to settle the matter (maybe a min fee release clause in there too, but Brentford might be too savvy for that). None of this reflects badly on him.

If you don't rate him that's fine, the only undeniable fact from all this though is that his market value is, one year on, a lot higher than we got, and quite a few of us saw that coming, even if a club as big as Arsenal going in for him so soon is probably a surprise to most of us. We need to be more shrewd with sales in future. Tony seems to want to buy at what he thinks players are worth, and sell at what he thinks they're worth, and that's fine except he or whoever is doing the negotiating seems to be a few years behind in understanding the going rates.

[Exiled_Rover]

2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Roughly translated: when arteta sat down and actually put some thought into his number 2 keeper, he wanted someone the right height, who doesn't make stupid mistakes and is comfortable with the ball at his feet.

Fair play to Raya though, he's earned another pay rise out of it. 

[Lucimo]

4 hours ago, tonygreenbank said:

Just seen that the Issa brothers from Blackburn have bought Asda from Walmart. It’s a new name to me but I wondered if they support the Rovers? Could have a chat with the Venkys!

Pretty sure they were approached by the club in the past to invest in some capacity but weren't interested. May have just been a sponsorship arrangement as opposed to ownership. 

[philipl]

Just now, Lucimo said:

Pretty sure they were approached by the club in the past to invest in some capacity but weren't interested. May have just been a sponsorship arrangement as opposed to ownership. 

Given where they are in the evolution of their business, this is not the time for the Issas to be making unnecessary spending.

[Kamy100]

They have been approached in the past and have decilined, mainly because their father is religous and will not let them invest in any business that has any links to gambling.

[Mike E]

Just now, Kamy100 said:

They have been approached in the past and have decilined, mainly because their father is religous and will not let them invest in any business that has any links to gambling.

Ironically makes them an even better fit for us. Football owners with morals, who prioritise family values.

[unleaded]

I find that hard to believe when every Euro Garage sells lottery tickets and other gambling items .....

Edited October 2, 2020 by unleaded

[Kamy100]

Just now, unleaded said:

I find hard to believe when every Euro Garage sells lottery tickets and other gambling items .....

No idea but that is what I was told a few years ago.

[USABlue]

Finding the European scouting thing quite funny.  It is not working is the cry.  The 2 signings we made are not because if it but because these 2 players were hand delivered to our club.  2 good players with decent pedigree came to us with not one single other team being in for them or even alerted.  Curious.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

33 minutes ago, unleaded said:

I find hard to believe when every Euro Garage sells lottery tickets and other gambling items .....

Inventive way to say "we're not interested" though isn't it

[Exiled_Rover]

55 minutes ago, philipl said:

Given where they are in the evolution of their business, this is not the time for the Issas to be making unnecessary spending.

They have billions and are building (or have built) several mansions in the countryside surrounding Blackburn.

They could clearly buy the club several times over and not blink an eye.

[tomphil]

1 minute ago, Exiled_Rover said:

They have billions and are building (or have built) several mansions in the countryside surrounding Blackburn.

They could clearly buy the club several times over and not blink an eye.

But they probably wouldn't be daft enough to pay the 200 million asking price.

[philipl]

29 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

They have billions and are building (or have built) several mansions in the countryside surrounding Blackburn.

They could clearly buy the club several times over and not blink an eye.

They are very heavily leveraged.

Great if everything goes well.

Unravels rapidly if not. Risks for their sorts of businesses are sky high in times as peculiar as these.

Edited October 2, 2020 by philipl

[Lucimo]

Sounds to me like they want to make money. Not sure owning a football club is the right way to do that. And by not sure I obviously mean without doubt. 

[Sparks Rover]

2 hours ago, bluebruce said:

a club as big as Arsenal going in for him so soon is probably a surprise to most of us. .

Its a surprise to Arteta too by the looks of it.  There is little evidence that anyone is willing to pay more than 3m for him.  I'd say Tony did a decent job getting shut. Had me pulling my hair out in his last season, so many cock ups and poor panicky kicking

[tomphil]

Great move for fuel retailers snapping up a company with many fuel outlets. These lads are probably middlemen for some huge Petroleum corporation. Then using their percentages to invest in property there'll be no billions to spew on a football club they'd need other investors on board probably. 

[bluebruce]

16 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Its a surprise to Arteta too by the looks of it.  There is little evidence that anyone is willing to pay more than 3m for him.  I'd say Tony did a decent job getting shut. Had me pulling my hair out in his last season, so many cock ups and poor panicky kicking

Has Arteta come out and said he wasn't in for him? Unless that's the case, there isn't any evidence that he wasn't willing to pay more than 3m for him. There is some evidence (not proof, evidence) that they were though.

[Spankus Munky]

1 minute ago, bluebruce said:

Has Arteta come out and said he wasn't in for him? Unless that's the case, there isn't any evidence that he wasn't willing to pay more than 3m for him. There is some evidence (not proof, evidence) that they were though.

Of course there isn't, but then that wont fit the narrative some on here are trying to peddle about the Raya debacle. Sam Johnstone moved to West Brom in 2018 for £6.5m... a Keeper who conceded 7 more than Raya last season and the season before that conceded just 2 less than Raya, but yeah we made out great on the Raya deal, righto ?

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Spankus Munky said:

Of course there isn't, but then that wont fit the narrative some on here are trying to peddle about the Raya debacle. Sam Johnstone moved to West Brom in 2018 for £6.5m... a Keeper who conceded 7 more than Raya last season and the season before that conceded just 2 less than Raya, but yeah we made out great on the Raya deal, righto ?

Sam Johnstone came from Utd, and he had proven premier league class.  

Can you post the evidence that Arsenal were in for Raya?

[islander200]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Sam Johnstone came from Utd, and he had proven premier league class.  

Can you post the evidence that Arsenal were in for Raya?

Why did Brentford leave out Raya then?They said his head wasn't right after interest from Arsenal.

Sam Johnstone came from United reserves

[Spankus Munky]

1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

Sam Johnstone came from Utd, and he had proven premier league class.  

Can you post the evidence that Arsenal were in for Raya?

Oh 8 games in the Premier League is Premier League Class pull the other one... And the evidence is all over google type "David Raya Arsenal bid" 100's of websites offering evidence Arsenal had bids for Raya. can you post evidence that Arsenal were never interested in Raya...

[Sparks Rover]

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

Why did Brentford leave out Raya then?They said his head wasn't right after interest from Arsenal.

Sam Johnstone came from United reserves

One is a premier league regular and the other isn't.  Simple

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Spankus Munky said:

Oh 8 games in the Premier League is Premier League Class pull the other one... And the evidence is all over google type "David Raya Arsenal bid" 100's of websites offering evidence Arsenal had bids for Raya. can you post evidence that Arsenal were never interested in Raya...

Its not my suggestion he was their target and chose Brentford instead.  That's your assertion.

[unsall]

5 hours ago, JHRover said:

I'm not sure what the last 3 years and what Mowbray has spent money on has to do with the situation we are in today. The reality of our current situation is that only a matter of weeks ago he said he wanted another 6 players. Since then we've signed 1. We are therefore 5 short of what he wanted. We've dealt with CB by signing Ayala (I've said several times that he is a good addition that I am very pleased with, although 1 good  CB doesn't compensate for not addressing the other positions) and we've brought Williams back into the fold (although I'm concerned about what is going on there with the manager recently making public comments that he didn't think he had a future here and only this week Williams himself throwing doubt on his future).

We still haven't signed the back up GK, LB, CM or RB that were all sought. We've also lost Travis to long term injury which increases the need for a CM.

We are being prepped for only loans. Virtually everything that has come from the Telegraph, Mowbray and Radio Lancashire has been about how it is likely to be the loan market from here. Only last weekend Andy Bayes was saying it was looking like loan additions only from here.

This is in complete contrast to the bullish confident talk after we signed Ayala where he was meant to be the first of several and we had players ready to sign and talked about dominoes falling from then on. Two and a half weeks on and everything has gone quiet.

You talk about loans being the 'correct' way to work this summer. I don't know how you can claim that. To begin with the cost effectiveness of loans depends upon wages involved and loan fees. If rumours are to be believed Tosin last year cost a small fortune to borrow for a season. So a repeat of that, whilst a good player, would not be cost effective for the club. If we cough up a small transfer fee for a hidden gem or diamond and put him on a multi season contract and he performs well then we would have a cash asset on the books, therefore protecting the club medium term and ensuring we get cash in when he leaves.

We've a small squad and half of it is out of contract in the summer. Padding it out with loans from here isn't going to address anything. All it will do is create another issue to resolve next summer when we are replacing players. There simply has to be more to our recruitment than bringing players in for the season because it avoids having to commit to a contract.

Turning to the claim that recent developments will have impacted on our ability to do business I'm afraid that simply doesn't stack up. It is another example of grasping any external excuse available to explain our transfer market failings - file alongside FFP, no European scouts etc.

To begin with I cannot comprehend why the owners would sanction a budget for signings and wages that was contingent upon having some fans in the ground in October. Why? Because October was always the 'best case' scenario. Anyone following case numbers and the news would have put money on a second wave or increase in cases at some point over the winter. Even if fans had been allowed back into grounds the revenue streams from limited capacity attendances with no away fans would have been a drop in the ocean compared to the costs involved in recruiting half a dozen players on average wages of pushing £10,000 per week.

We've also seen with the manager's contract awards to Smallwood etc in the summer - where half a dozen players were given extra time to their contracts because it was the right thing to do - that cash for players and their wages isn't directly linked to fans through the turnstiles. If it was then those deals wouldn't have been done.

 

 

Unless you’ve mega money to throw at it you have to mix permanent transfers and loans.

Watched the latest documentary on Leeds and when they failed to go up couple of seasons ago, they had to sell top players, and then filled in with some quality loans, and the following season it worked with promotion.

If we can get in 2/3 decent loans to add to the squad, especially with Dack very close to fitness, think we will be alright, taking into consideration this very unusual year with COVID-19.

[chaddyrovers]