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[Paul Mani]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

He definitely needs to show the same level of aggression he showed scoring the goal on Saturday more often.  You've got to be prepared to get hurt now and again. He's got the size.

Argh, tbf, ever time I see SG live I can’t get over how big he is. He often looks like a 15yr old playing in an U11’s league.

Im desperate for him to start using it. Get a few bookings and rough defenders up. If he got it right running in from the right he’d be up over any left back and with a run on the CB I’d bet on him more often than not. Physically he should be every bit as dominant as Rudy was.

[Paul Mani]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

I'd put good money on Buckley not being a regular next season.

Also if we're going into next season with Dack as a false 9 then I just don't see it working at all.

 

Let’s see. I think how much we have to spend will be a big decider.

Who knows what formation we’ll play but that seems to be the one he likes

[K-Hod]

16 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Agreed. But the full cost of the deal is the real focus here. Brereton and Gally were seven figure fees but their wages are in our structure and therefore FAR less than what the top players in the Champ are being paid.

I saw someone mention Bamford the other day at £7m. Aside from the problems he’s had there. The total cost, I’d say is prob around double. £2.5-3m a year on wages?

Im not defending Brereton and Gally btw who’ve both been poor. I just hope Sat is a sign of things to come. BB looked a really exciting prospect. Playing like that he’d play every week and scare the life out of teams. Gally wasn’t great but I was delighted to see him come from wide, rise high and steam into that header. He just needs to find a way to do it every week like Rudy did. It’s pretty impossible to stop once you get that right.

I googled Bamford’s wages just then. 
£1.8 Million a year. So, hypothetically could have bought him, not bought Gallagher and had £3 Million in change....

(I know it doesn’t work like that!)

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I was never a forward tbh mate but absolutely agree. Though I do think had Gally been better positionally and more aggressive he would’ve easily got 15 goals this season. Let’s hope he’s turned the corner and we can fully transition to thIs possession based game ASAP 

I've played there now and again. When you're up against a giant and the ball keeps coming to you at head high there's nothing worse. It's a very lonely place when the service is poor. Get the ball on the ground in the channels were you can get after the big lads in a foot race like we used to do when we had Bellamy or Andy Cole or Jansen. Most centre halves are slow on the turn as Maguire proved last night. That and get the ball coming in from the wing so you can get away from your marker. We don't do either of those moves enough.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[chaddyrovers]

34 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I honestly don’t know what JRC’s best position is. TM seems to talk about him as a left side forward a lot? Coming in off the touch line and getting into the box?

Whats his goal scoring record like at youth level?

Under Johnson for 23's he mainly played right wing back from what I can remember. 

Here is going scoring record according to transfer market

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/joe-rankin-costello/leistungsdaten/spieler/411229

5 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Let’s see. I think how much we have to spend will be a big decider.

Who knows what formation we’ll play but that seems to be the one he likes

I thought we played more of 4-2-3-1 on Saturday 

 

[roversfan99]

21 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Agreed. But the full cost of the deal is the real focus here. Brereton and Gally were seven figure fees but their wages are in our structure and therefore FAR less than what the top players in the Champ are being paid.

I saw someone mention Bamford the other day at £7m. Aside from the problems he’s had there. The total cost, I’d say is prob around double. £2.5-3m a year on wages?

Im not defending Brereton and Gally btw who’ve both been poor. I just hope Sat is a sign of things to come. BB looked a really exciting prospect. Playing like that he’d play every week and scare the life out of teams. Gally wasn’t great but I was delighted to see him come from wide, rise high and steam into that header. He just needs to find a way to do it every week like Rudy did. It’s pretty impossible to stop once you get that right.

Rudy seemed naturally good at heading the ball and as @Mattyblue correctly says, we had a really effective winger at that time which is something that Mowbray is against the idea of. Its no coincedence that Gallagher got his first headed goal (I think, if not one of) of the season with a winger whipping in a cross. As it is, we know that Chapman will rarely if ever be seen again regardless until at a push the last game of next season.

There is no responsibility taken by the manager (or direct questioning from any journalists) to the part Mowbray himself has played in Gallaghers lack of goals. To me, Gallagher will never be a regular goalscorer, he lacks that knack of anticipating chances like Rhodes did, like Dack does and body willing like Graham does. But even if Mowbray whinges at the player for not getting in the box from out wide, he has to accept that hes massively reducing the probability of Gallagher or indeed any striker getting on the end of things when played out wide. His goals this season came on Saturday from a wingers cross, v Swansea when up front, v Preston when up front, v Stoke when up front and v Sheffield Wednesday from central and at 4 nil up v 10 men. Its so damning of the manager that he still plays him wide. He should be back up to Armstrong and never played wide under any circumstance.

Regarding Bamford, whether we could have afforded his wages I am unconvinced of, but if problems are 25 goals in 65 games including 16 this season playing a critical role in Leeds winning the league then give me those problems any day.

32 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

By coaches. Buckley is an 8 (Up and downer) all day. They think he’ll control games. He’s only playing as a 10 because of his size and a loan won’t make him grow any.

I think he’ll play a lot next year and his ability to deal with the physicality of the league and / or budget will decide if that’s him starting or coming on in games.

Medium to long term, two of Rothwell, Davenport and Buckley off Trav in a three would mean we have the footballers to play a possession based game.

They seem to like this 3 up top with Dack as a false 9 and two of Brereton, Armstrong, Gallagher and maybe Vale? 

 

Im not sure about these supposed whispers from coaches but he seems to be much more comfortable further forward. I just dont see how hes getting past Dack, Holtby, Rothwell, Armstrong, even Rankin Costello, Chapman and Brereton in those attacking areas.

You mention Rothwell but again he isnt one to control a game and its not as if hes a young lad either. Hes someone who runs at players deep in their half. 

The false 9 seemed to be dropped with positive results on Saturday. If we revert back to it and start playing midfielders as our main striker and our strikers wide then it wont be good results that follows.

[BlackburnEnd75]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Im not sure about these supposed whispers from coaches but he seems to be much more comfortable further forward. I just dont see how hes getting past Dack, Holtby, Rothwell, Armstrong, even Rankin Costello, Chapman and Brereton in those attacking areas.

You mention Rothwell but again he isnt one to control a game and its not as if hes a young lad either. Hes someone who runs at players deep in their half. 

The false 9 seemed to be dropped with positive results on Saturday. If we revert back to it and start playing midfielders as our main striker and our strikers wide then it wont be good results that follows.

From what I've seen of Buckley he seems to lack composure in front of goal, thinking his miss on Saturday and huddersfield away where he looked unfamiliar being almost 1v1 and shat himself. Both his 1st team goals came from outside the box (both sides by deflections I think). My instinct is he will end up deeper as an 8 pulling the strings but it would be hard to justify that at the moment, he needs to develop physically and defensively. 

In terms of our shape saturday we definitely defended as a 4-3-3 with holtby pressing like a 9 through the middle with Armstrong left and brereton right. What worked better was Holtby found space more effectively (game was more open) dropping deeper than he has done previously. Travis sat closer to johnson and Rothwell often roamed from the left cm position to good effect.

[Oldgregg86]

7 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Good point. There have been a lot of brilliant, small players but Ardiles was one of the best ever! The key here is that in spite of his size, they are trying to play him. He just literally needs to grow into his body. Pretty much like BB seems to have done.

Buck isn’t never gonna be a big strapping lad but once he meets his potential physically I think he’ll have as big, if not bigger impact than Trav. He’s certainly a much better footballer than Trav anyway. Can’t wait to see them playing together.

I don’t think people who haven’t watched the U23s realise what a gem we have in Buckley.

i understand why people where underwhelmed with his senior appearances but make no mistake this kid is top draw

[roversfan99]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

I don’t think people who haven’t watched the U23s realise what a gem we have in Buckley.

i understand why people where underwhelmed with his senior appearances but make no mistake this kid is top draw

To be fair, performances at U23 dont really mean anything initially, and applying any talent at senior level is a totally different ball game and until that is done, then there is no evidence of anything.

I suppose U23 performances are a step up from supposed whispers coming from internally regarding how highly players are rated.

There is definitely some talent there but I cant see him establishing himself as anything like a regular in our side with the options available in the position he would like to play. I think its best if he is loaned out, and if he starts really standing out in League 1, then perhaps a different matter altogether. He is up against it at the moment with Dack, Holtby etc.

[Tom]

Aren’t we cashing in on Buckley for £10m this summer? Thought I read that here....

He seems to have grown into himself as the seasons gone on, idiotic red card aside he looks more composed.

Big season for him next season one way or another 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Most young players end up getting a red card at some point. It's what you learn from getting the card that matters.

[Dreams of 1995]

27 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I don’t think people who haven’t watched the U23s realise what a gem we have in Buckley.

i understand why people where underwhelmed with his senior appearances but make no mistake this kid is top draw

My Grandad has been raving about Buckley for quite some time now. He did the same about Phil Jones many years ago too. I trust him to be able to spot a player.

I think practically everybody who watches U23 football regularly all agree that he's a class above.

I'll be honest I've only ever watched a handful of U23 games, so I will judge him on his senior appearances, and in my opinion he has shown a lot more than what he is given credit for. He's tidy and is usually in space which usually means he has a good footballing brain.

 

[Ewood Ace]

Buckley technically looks a good player and looks comfortable on the ball. But he is to lightweight too often he has looked like a boy in a man's game. Physically he has a lot to do if he is going to play regular Championship football. 

[Paul Mani]

Tbf I’m not professing to have seen that much of Buckley but it seems that he’s the one they believe is the real deal. That’s not because he’s tearing up the 23’s as such. It’s because when you work day in day out with footballers you just get a feeling that you are watching someone special.

Two lads I know who are still employed in professional football as a scouts watched Buckley in cameo appearances this season for the first time (both matches in where I thought he was “alright”) and they absolutely raved about him. They also said two Prem clubs were watching him in those matches. ??‍♂️

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, Paul Mani said:

Tbf I’m not professing to have seen that much of Buckley but it seems that he’s the one they believe is the real deal. That’s not because he’s tearing up the 23’s as such. It’s because when you work day in day out with footballers you just get a feeling that you are watching someone special.

Two lads I know who are still employed in professional football as a scouts watched Buckley in cameo appearances this season for the first time (both matches in where I thought he was “alright”) and they absolutely raved about him. They also said two Prem clubs were watching him in those matches. ??‍♂️

Who is they? As in believing that he is the "real deal."

 

[Paul Mani]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Who is they? As in believing that he is the "real deal."

 

Current Rovers first team and youth team coaches. 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Paul Mani

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Oldgregg86 said:

I don’t think people who haven’t watched the U23s realise what a gem we have in Buckley.

i understand why people where underwhelmed with his senior appearances but make no mistake this kid is top draw

You are correct Buckley is top draw

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

To be fair, performances at U23 dont really mean anything initially, and applying any talent at senior level is a totally different ball game and until that is done, then there is no evidence of anything.

I suppose U23 performances are a step up from supposed whispers coming from internally regarding how highly players are rated.

There is definitely some talent there but I cant see him establishing himself as anything like a regular in our side with the options available in the position he would like to play. I think its best if he is loaned out, and if he starts really standing out in League 1, then perhaps a different matter altogether. He is up against it at the moment with Dack, Holtby etc.

I watched alot of the under 23's games over the last 5 years and you could tell players like Buckley and especially Travis would break through into the team. JRC and Carter have been performing for the under 23's so breaking into the 1st team is no surprise to me. We have others coming through from the under 18's into the under 23's this coming season. 

I do know where Buckley would like to play? 

I thinking loaning him out would be waste. Deffo good enough to play his part in our first team squad going forward

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

You are correct Buckley is top draw

I watched alot of the under 23's games over the last 5 years and you could tell players like Buckley and especially Travis would break through into the team. JRC and Carter have been performing for the under 23's so breaking into the 1st team is no surprise to me. We have others coming through from the under 18's into the under 23's this coming season. 

I do know where Buckley would like to play? 

I thinking loaning him out would be waste. Deffo good enough to play his part in our first team squad going forward

As I said, theres not much weight held by U23 performances and supposed whispers from how much players are rated. To describe him as "top drawer" is hyperbolic at this point.

To get into his natural position he has a few players to get past to get any game time. It makes sense for him out of all of our youngsters to go out, considering that his lack of physicality has made him stand out as slightly out of his depth on a few occasions. 

With Rankin Costello, we dont have many wide players so there is scope for him to break in. And theres his versatility although I would be reluctant to making him into a second Elliott Bennett. With Carter, again we are short of centre backs.

Edited July 20, 2020 by roversfan99

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

As I said, theres not much weight held by U23 performances and supposwd whispers from how much players are rated. To describe him as "top drawer" ia hyperbolic at this point.

To get into his natural position he has a few players to get past to get any game time. It makes sense for him out of all of our youngsters to go out, considering that his lack of physicality has made him stand out as slightly out of his depth on a few occasions. 

With Rankin Costello, we dont have many wide players so there is scope for him to break in. And theres his versatility although I would be reluctant to making him into a second Elliott Bennett. With Carter, again we are short of centre backs.

Travis was top drawer in the under 23's. It was clear to see. 

I do know what his natural position is? 

I would be playing Buckley in some games especially if the season wont start to Late September time meaning more games midweek so our squad will need to be utilise more. Plus with Holtby's past injury and we don't know how Dack will return post injury we will need Buckley here

[alcd]

1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

Buckley technically looks a good player and looks comfortable on the ball. But he is to lightweight too often he has looked like a boy in a man's game. Physically he has a lot to do if he is going to play regular Championship football. 

The same was often said about Scott Sellars but he didn't turn out too bad and at a time when pro football was much more physical than it is now. 

[Oldgregg86]

From what I’ve seen of Buckley I have high hopes for him but i think a loan and regular first team football would do him the world of good.  The question is where would he go ? He is a technically gifted player and I don’t think being kicked around the Lower leagues will do anything other than risk injury. He’s not quite ready for the first team as a starter and he’s far to good to stagnate in the u23s. Be good to see someone like Buckley go over to Holland or Belgium etc but our youth players always end up at barrow . Maybe cameos off the bench might be best for all concerned 

[Paul Mani]

53 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

As I said, theres not much weight held by U23 performances and supposwd whispers from how much players are rated. To describe him as "top drawer" ia hyperbolic at this point.

To get into his natural position he has a few players to get past to get any game time. It makes sense for him out of all of our youngsters to go out, considering that his lack of physicality has made him stand out as slightly out of his depth on a few occasions. 

With Rankin Costello, we dont have many wide players so there is scope for him to break in. And theres his versatility although I would be reluctant to making him into a second Elliott Bennett. With Carter, again we are short of centre backs.

Your point doesn’t really stand up other than in your mind.

Because they see Buckley as an 8. A position that we don’t have that much cover in.

There’s nothing ‘hyperbolic’ about the basic opinions of people who watch them all play every day.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Your point doesn’t really stand up other than in your mind.

Because they see Buckley as an 8. A position that we don’t have that much cover in.

There’s nothing ‘hyperbolic’ about the basic opinions of people who watch them all play every day.

Will we be fielding the same numbers of subs next season as we are at the end of this ? If so I think he'll get his chance coming off the bench.

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Your point doesn’t really stand up other than in your mind.

Because they see Buckley as an 8. A position that we don’t have that much cover in.

There’s nothing ‘hyperbolic’ about the basic opinions of people who watch them all play every day.

The reason that I describe talk of him being a "special talent" as hyperbolic is not not even based on the fact that it is hearsay at this moment in time. It is because it is a quote seemingly based around his performances in training and playing against fellow kids.

We can only judge on what we see ourselves in the first team. What I have seen personally is a player with an obvious ability to pick the ball up on the turn, a tidy player who wants to run at players, but one who as of yet has only managed to impress me personally on one occasion away at Charlton. I will be reserving any talk of him being a special talent until he has shown it at first team level where it matters. 

Maybe the staff do see him eventually as becoming "an 8" as I dont profess to being ITK. Considering the glimpses of the strengths he has, and also his obvious physical limitations, I would be surprised to see him there any time soon. He played as a central midfielder in his cameos last year and also when we went to 3 at the back (v Milwall??) this year and looked a little lost. Obviously he has played much of his game wide where again he couldnt get involved. Based on what I have seen from him and the alternatives in the position he has impressed most in, I personally would loan him out to a League 1 side and should he stand out there, then bring him back and go from tbrre.

[Mattyblue]

Is it just me or are people referring to numbers more than used to? What happened to actual positions?

I was reading an article the other day and the journo was banging on about ‘6s’ ‘8s’ ‘9s’ and ‘10s’

Thought I’d stumbled into the rugby section...

Edited July 20, 2020 by Mattyblue