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[bazza]

3 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Most young players end up getting a red card at some point. It's what you learn from getting the card that matters.

Red cards are ten a penny in this modern game of stupid interpretation of the laws of the game. They mean nothing. And neither do yellow cards.

You only have to go back (crickey) 27 years (???) to watch Rovers 7 Norwich 1 and watch the tackles that went flying in and no-one batting and eyelid. The laws have been tweaked far too much.

This thing about if the ref gets in the way is ludicrous............but I digress.

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Will we be fielding the same numbers of subs next season as we are at the end of this ? If so I think he'll get his chance coming off the bench.

Yeah, 5 subs apparently.

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The reason that I describe talk of him being a "special talent" as hyperbolic is not not even based on the fact that it is hearsay at this moment in time. It is because it is a quote seemingly based around his performances in training and playing against fellow kids.

We can only judge on what we see ourselves in the first team. What I have seen personally is a player with an obvious ability to pick the ball up on the turn, a tidy player who wants to run at players, but one who as of yet has only managed to impress me personally on one occasion away at Charlton. I will be reserving any talk of him being a special talent until he has shown it at first team level where it matters. 

Maybe the staff do see him eventually as becoming "an 8" as I dont profess to being ITK. Considering the glimpses of the strengths he has, and also his obvious physical limitations, I would be surprised to see him there any time soon. He played as a central midfielder in his cameos last year and also when we went to 3 at the back (v Milwall??) this year and looked a little lost. Obviously he has played much of his game wide where again he couldnt get involved. Based on what I have seen from him and the alternatives in the position he has impressed most in, I personally would loan him out to a League 1 side and should he stand out there, then bring him back and go from tbrre.

Fair enough. I don’t think they’ll loan him out because they think he’s the best of the bunch and can effect the team positively now.

On a personal note, I wouldn’t loan him out to League 1 either. Loan stints aren’t great for every player. I think they need to get him playing alongside as much quality as they can. Play him next to Trav and get him feeding Dack and playing passes Trav can’t...be interesting to see.

[Paul Mani]

2 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

From what I’ve seen of Buckley I have high hopes for him but i think a loan and regular first team football would do him the world of good.  The question is where would he go ? He is a technically gifted player and I don’t think being kicked around the Lower leagues will do anything other than risk injury. He’s not quite ready for the first team as a starter and he’s far to good to stagnate in the u23s. Be good to see someone like Buckley go over to Holland or Belgium etc but our youth players always end up at barrow . Maybe cameos off the bench might be best for all concerned 

I like the idea of a loan to Holland or Belgium. Or they could just use and integrate him like City have with Foden who faces the same / similar challenges physically.

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Fair enough. I don’t think they’ll loan him out because they think he’s the best of the bunch and can effect the team positively now.

On a personal note, I wouldn’t loan him out to League 1 either. Loan stints aren’t great for every player. I think they need to get him playing alongside as much quality as they can. Play him next to Trav and get him feeding Dack and playing passes Trav can’t...be interesting to see.

But from what you have seen, would you have Buckley in the central midfield of a Championship side? Over say Corry Evans?

Loans arent good for every player but it depends on various factors, the likelihood of gametime, the position and the likely destination, if they can play regularly in League 1 then its a good indicator, the further down, the less meaningful it is.

I think he looks like more of an attacking midfielder, any doubts over physicality increase ten fold if you push him back and he seems more of a progressive player rather than someone to dictate from deep. Sadly for him, we have Dack and Holtby ahead of him, and of course players like Brereton and Gallagher wanting to play central due to an inability to play out wide. Surely rather than drip feeding minutes here and there, unlike with Rankin Costello, there isnt a natural opening within our squad for him to potentially establish himself. He could learn to impose himself on games if he went out on loan despite his physical disadvantages.

[Paul Mani]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

But from what you have seen, would you have Buckley in the central midfield of a Championship side? Over say Corry Evans?

Loans arent good for every player but it depends on various factors, the likelihood of gametime, the position and the likely destination, if they can play regularly in League 1 then its a good indicator, the further down, the less meaningful it is.

I think he looks like more of an attacking midfielder, any doubts over physicality increase ten fold if you push him back and he seems more of a progressive player rather than someone to dictate from deep. Sadly for him, we have Dack and Holtby ahead of him, and of course players like Brereton and Gallagher wanting to play central due to an inability to play out wide. Surely rather than drip feeding minutes here and there, unlike with Rankin Costello, there isnt a natural opening within our squad for him to potentially establish himself. He could learn to impose himself on games if he went out on loan despite his physical disadvantages.

I understand what you’re saying and the way you are rationalising it feels, well, rational. I confess that I haven’t seen enough of him at any level to make a judgement.

The point I’m making is that aside from your opinion ‘they’ see him as an 8. Someone to sit next to the 6 (Trav) and dictate the play from deep. They see the time he creates on the ball and his ability to pick a pass into those forward positions as his real strength. They want him taking the ball on the half turn from the CB or Trav and starting our attacks.

i don’t think any of us would be as obsessed with seeing him as a 10 if he wasn’t so slight. But he will fill out. 

[Mattyblue]

But what if your centre half wears 6? ?

[bazza]

7 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

But what if your centre half wears 6? ?

Aka Derek Fazackerley?

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

But from what you have seen, would you have Buckley in the central midfield of a Championship side? Over say Corry Evans?

Every day of the week

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Every day of the week

Evans compliments Travis really well. Buckley has rarely played in that position, but when he has he has failed to exert himself as he has in all but one game in more advanced areas.

Im sure that he will improve in time as hes very young but I am unconvinced that long term he will play so deep.

[Tom]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

Yeah, 5 subs apparently.

Whilst I think this rule is daft I would really like it if there was a way to implement that 2 of the 5 (or at least a number of the subs) had to be players that have come through the ranks it would be a huge benefit to english football and increase the potential for the likes of Buckley, Vale and let’s say Travis 18 months ago, where they probably graduate from youth football but not quite regular in the first team.

Impractical and hard to manage but I think there’s something there if people cleverer than I could suss it out. 

[Oldgregg86]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Evans compliments Travis really well. Buckley has rarely played in that position, but when he has he has failed to exert himself as he has in all but one game in more advanced areas.

Im sure that he will improve in time as hes very young but I am unconvinced that long term he will play so deep.

I honestly believe if he was given a run of games he would offer far more than a very injury prone and limited player in Evans. He would be one of the first out the door if it was up to me. I completely understand where your coming from with regards to what he has done in the first team thus far and whatever he has done at u23 levels ultimately is irrelevant. I just believe he will be a very good player if handled right. For now I would start Davenport next to travis as the two in the middle and give travis abit more freedom to push on. I can’t back anything up that I’m saying other than I believe he will be a really good player for us if given the right time and opportunity to develop 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Tom said:

Whilst I think this rule is daft I would really like it if there was a way to implement that 2 of the 5 (or at least a number of the subs) had to be players that have come through the ranks it would be a huge benefit to english football and increase the potential for the likes of Buckley, Vale and let’s say Travis 18 months ago, where they probably graduate from youth football but not quite regular in the first team.

Impractical and hard to manage but I think there’s something there if people cleverer than I could suss it out. 

That could lead to teams stock piling youngsters rather than letting them leave ideally on loan to get game time, helping their development and also the teams they are loaned too.

I think the 4th and 5th sub further dilute the quality of a game, when half of the team is made of subs.

[Paul Mani]

1 minute ago, Tom said:

Whilst I think this rule is daft I would really like it if there was a way to implement that 2 of the 5 (or at least a number of the subs) had to be players that have come through the ranks it would be a huge benefit to english football and increase the potential for the likes of Buckley, Vale and let’s say Travis 18 months ago, where they probably graduate from youth football but not quite regular in the first team.

Impractical and hard to manage but I think there’s something there if people cleverer than I could suss it out. 

Will certainly give those teams with bigger budgets and squads a big helping hand as it stands.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

I honestly believe if he was given a run of games he would offer far more than a very injury prone and limited player in Evans. He would be one of the first out the door if it was up to me. I completely understand where your coming from with regards to what he has done in the first team thus far and whatever he has done at u23 levels ultimately is irrelevant. I just believe he will be a very good player if handled right. For now I would start Davenport next to travis as the two in the middle and give travis abit more freedom to push on. I can’t back anything up that I’m saying other than I believe he will be a really good player for us if given the right time and opportunity to develop 

Davenport should start on Wednesday but I believe that from the start of next season that Evans should come back in. He has his limits and is prone to injury but he dovetails with Travis and our win success with them 2 in midfield is very impressive.

I think personally that a loan would suit Buckley and then potentially get him back either after half a season or a full one ready to make a much better push for a first team place in a more attacking role.

[Oldgregg86]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Davenport should start on Wednesday but I believe that from the start of next season that Evans should come back in. He has his limits and is prone to injury but he dovetails with Travis and our win success with them 2 in midfield is very impressive.

I think personally that a loan would suit Buckley and then potentially get him back either after half a season or a full one ready to make a much better push for a first team place in a more attacking role.

I’d rather play Bennett in the middle than Evans . I just don’t rate him whatsoever but it’s a game of opinions. If the loan was the right one then I wouldn’t be averse to him going . Getting kicked around at barrow won’t help him that’s for sure . 

[Tom]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

That could lead to teams stock piling youngsters rather than letting them leave ideally on loan to get game time, helping their development and also the teams they are loaned too.

I think the 4th and 5th sub further dilute the quality of a game, when half of the team is made of subs.

Oh I know it’s a non starter for various reasons not to mention those clubs without a youth set up but just trying to find a positive from the potentially daft 5 subs nonsense 

How long until we get permanent drinks breaks with adverts thrown in?

[roversfan99]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

I’d rather play Bennett in the middle than Evans . I just don’t rate him whatsoever but it’s a game of opinions. If the loan was the right one then I wouldn’t be averse to him going . Getting kicked around at barrow won’t help him that’s for sure . 

I would disagree totally on Bennett in CM. Evans is far tidier in possession and less clumsy. Bennett did a job for that solitary game v Shrewsbury but otherwise hes not got the intelligence or ability to play there. I also think that Travis and Evans record speaks for itself.

Regarding Buckley, there would be no point sending him lower than League 1 in my opinion.

[Oldgregg86]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I would disagree totally on Bennett in CM. Evans is far tidier in possession and less clumsy. Bennett did a job for that solitary game v Shrewsbury but otherwise hes not got the intelligence or ability to play there. I also think that Travis and Evans record speaks for itself.

Regarding Buckley, there would be no point sending him lower than League 1 in my opinion.

I agree regarding the loan. I guess we will just have to  agree to disagree regarding Evans. I often agree with most of your posts I just can’t see what evens offers and until someone like Davenport or Buckley steps up and shows what a proper cm should be doing then Evans will be acceptable to most fans. I expect far more from a player in his position than he offers . 

[TheRovers1994]

On 18/07/2020 at 19:04, tonygreenbank said:

To be fair I hope the club are thinking about the integrity of the league. There are still some relegation issues to be resolved on Wednesday so I hope Tony Mowbray considers that in his selection.

I still haven’t forgiven Wagner at Huddersfield for allowing Birmingham to steal the points which ultimately saw us relegated.

You cant be serious? We was relegated over 46 games not 1, we were perfectly within our rights to play whatever team we want its not our problem those teams are down there soecismky when we wan a look at our academy graduates for next season 

[arbitro]

23 minutes ago, TheRovers1994 said:

You cant be serious? We was relegated over 46 games not 1, we were perfectly within our rights to play whatever team we want its not our problem those teams are down there soecismky when we wan a look at our academy graduates for next season 

And a marked difference was that Huddersfield 'rested' players because they were assured of a playoff place not to mention Redknapp doing a number on their Klopp wannabe manager. We are simply trying out a few kids with a view to next season. 

Managers have to look after their own clubs interests.

[bluebruce]

On 20/07/2020 at 17:58, Dreams of 1995 said:

My Grandad has been raving about Buckley for quite some time now. He did the same about Phil Jones many years ago too. I trust him to be able to spot a player.

I think practically everybody who watches U23 football regularly all agree that he's a class above.

I'll be honest I've only ever watched a handful of U23 games, so I will judge him on his senior appearances, and in my opinion he has shown a lot more than what he is given credit for. He's tidy and is usually in space which usually means he has a good footballing brain.

 

Has your grandad ever raved about a player that never really made it?

[Dreams of 1995]

11 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Has your grandad ever raved about a player that never really made it?

Quite a few, yeah. Nobody is perfect. Not to the level he raves about Buckley though. Point is he's not the only one raving about him.