Coventry v ROVERS

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

I acknowledged that it made things more difficult without numerous players, undoubtedly. A problem all managers will face at some point. That being said, both Holtby and Rothwell were available in the home game prior when we were equally impotent, Rothwell in particular had one of his best games for the club v Forest by not being involved yet being painted as a potential saviour!

The issue regarding breaking down teams is a recurring one that we will need to overcome to reach the top 6. Going away from home and grinding out draws and wins is a very common and successful method.

Cardiff played a very structure way which most teams in this league don't. Harris has them very well drilled and deserved credit for them. But we did take 4 points from them last season. 

Rothwell playing against Forest would have help us especially when Holtby wasn't available is 

We play a very specific way and I likely the way we are trying to play football now. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

The key to me was the tactical errors as I mentioned earlier. Cant see any merit in Johnson sitting, Evans ahead of him, Gallagher wide and Chapman as a number 10. Did Mowbray use the senior squad he had available in the best and most efficient way? Absolutely not for me.

I don't any of those decisions cost points at all in the scheme of things. 

[islander200]

1 minute ago, Inglorious basturk said:

To be fair those three are all at the wrong end of the table 

Yes but they ain't getting hammered every week.

I responded to a post where it was said 2 of our 3 hammerings were against teams down to 10 men.

I just pointed out we were already 3-0 up in one of those games prior to the sending off and the sending off had nothing to do with the victory.

In response to you we deserved to lose the game against Watford, but Foster did have to make a number of saves,we created plenty of chances and missed a penalty.They were also fortunate to keep 11 men on 

[Vilesinner]

14 minutes ago, Inglorious basturk said:

To be fair those three are all at the wrong end of the table 

Norwich were very lucky to beat Wycombe. Fortunate free kick late on to scrape home 2-1

Edited October 25, 2020 by Vilesinner

[Ewood Ace]

19 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Maybe leave the season progress a little and give the new players a chance to settle in before labelling us flat track bullies.

Which bit of 'at the moment' was difficult to comprehend?

 

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cardiff played a very structure way which most teams in this league don't. Harris has them very well drilled and deserved credit for them. But we did take 4 points from them last season. 

Rothwell playing against Forest would have help us especially when Holtby wasn't available is 

We play a very specific way and I likely the way we are trying to play football now. 

I don't any of those decisions cost points at all in the scheme of things. 

Johnson sat deep played a number of poor passes as he often does, the last of which led to the winner.

Evans playing further forward led to him being the player who took the ball forward in one of our only attacks in the first half, he shit himself and wasted it. Hes a defensive midfielder. Johnson is one who can get goals. Gallagher out wide and Chapman as a number 10 led to nothing being created in the second half. 

If you want to absolve Mowbray of any responsibility in spite of these then fair enough. Presumably you will also downplay yesterdays win on the fact that we ran riot against 10 men? Thought not.

Both Holtby AND Rothwell played against Cardiff. Yes they are well organised but we struggled against that sort of team in general and that needs to improve, its a little inaccurate to put the lack of creativity down to 2 missing players who played in the game prior when we were equally impotent.

The current way of playing has promise, excitement and potential. I dont advocate changing it. It will only be totally justified once it starts yielding the results to get us into the top 6.

[islander200]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

 

The issue regarding breaking down teams is a recurring one that we will need to overcome to reach the top 6. Going away from home and grinding out draws and wins is a very common and successful method.

 

 

A recurring one?See I don't get why we are comparing this year's team with seasons gone by?

We are playing a totally different game to what we have in previous years.

Half the starting team is also different to previous seasons.Kaminski ,Ayala , Douglas, Trybull and Elliot.Add a much better looking Brereton and Holtby seemingly having found a position.

Our style and the players are much much different so think it's way too early to say we struggle to break teams down .I can't see how this team ,squad and tactics can be compared in anyway with previous seasons.

[Sparks Rover]

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

A recurring one?See I don't get why we are comparing this year's team with seasons gone by?

We are playing a totally different game to what we have in previous years.

Half the starting team is also different to previous seasons.Kaminski ,Ayala , Douglas, Trybull and Elliot.Add a much better looking Brereton and Holtby seemingly having found a position.

Our style and the players are much much different so think it's way too early to say we struggle to break teams down .I can't see how this team ,squad and tactics can be compared in anyway with previous seasons.

Did you miss Cardiff and Forest?

[islander200]

3 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Which bit of 'at the moment' was difficult to comprehend?

 

Not difficult to comprehend just find it extremely sad anyone would dream of labelling us so soon In the season when we have nearly half a new team.

Or liking posts that suggest our two hammerings were down to our opponents were down to 10 men despite being 3-0 up already in one of the games it finished 11v11.

No big massive rants about Brereton either yesterday?Or maybe you want to criticize him again for the amount of free kicks he wins with his "diving"

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Johnson sat deep played a number of poor passes as he often does, the last of which led to the winner.

Evans playing further forward led to him being the player who took the ball forward in one of our only attacks in the first half, he shit himself and wasted it. Hes a defensive midfielder. Johnson is one who can get goals. Gallagher out wide and Chapman as a number 10 led to nothing being created in the second half. 

If you want to absolve Mowbray of any responsibility in spite of these then fair enough. Presumably you will also downplay yesterdays win on the fact that we ran riot against 10 men? Thought not.

Both Holtby AND Rothwell played against Cardiff. Yes they are well organised but we struggled against that sort of team in general and that needs to improve, its a little inaccurate to put the lack of creativity down to 2 missing players who played in the game prior when we were equally impotent.

The current way of playing has promise, excitement and potential. I dont advocate changing it. It will only be totally justified once it starts yielding the results to get us into the top 6.

But none of that is the reasons why we lost the Forest. It was cruel defection goal. We could have gone 4-4-2 and lost the game by 2 goals. who knows. Rest of it is speculating and guess work. 

Most championship clubs don't play the Cardiff way. Watford was a solid defensive team from the games Ive seen before we played them and we created a number of chances against them. 

You need to look at the Cardiff and Forest in isolation as 2 teams playing differently for me. 

The current way of playing is right for our current squad of players. It is yielding results, performances and goals

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, islander200 said:

A recurring one?See I don't get why we are comparing this year's team with seasons gone by?

We are playing a totally different game to what we have in previous years.

Half the starting team is also different to previous seasons.Kaminski ,Ayala , Douglas, Trybull and Elliot.Add a much better looking Brereton and Holtby seemingly having found a position.

Our style and the players are much much different so think it's way too early to say we struggle to break teams down .I can't see how this team ,squad and tactics can be compared in anyway with previous seasons.

By recurring, I meant that many teams use a similar blueprint that Forest and Cardiff used (and has seemingly been frowned and looked down upon) for away games, in terms of being hard to beat, well organised and looking to score via a set piece or counter attack.

Whilst it is obviously an added concern that a problem we have faced last season seemingly has not been resolved, the criticism/concern surrounds the games we have faced in that regard from this season.

[islander200]

2 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Did you miss Cardiff and Forest?

We were missing 13 players,5 or 6 starters v Forest.

We were poor in both the forest and Cardiff games.

Thing is im not the one saying things like " no chance top 6", "we will be closer to relegation than promotion"

I have made my position clear,too early to judge one way or another but one thing is for certain I wouldn't be predicting doom and gloom when we signed 5 players over the summer that will improve the first 11, with 3 of them being at the club for 8 days 

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, islander200 said:

Not difficult to comprehend just find it extremely sad anyone would dream of labelling us so soon In the season when we have nearly half a new team.

Or liking posts that suggest our two hammerings were down to our opponents were down to 10 men despite being 3-0 up already in one of the games it finished 11v11.

No big massive rants about Brereton either yesterday?Or maybe you want to criticize him again for the amount of free kicks he wins with his "diving"

I said at the moment we look like flat track bullies, which at the moment is perfectly true. In terms of points collected we have beaten 3 of the bottom 4 teams scoring 13 goals. In our other 4 games against sides higher up the table we have 3 goals and 1 point from 4 games. At the moment the flat track bullies tag is fair win in midweek and then on Saturday and we will have removed that tag.

Wycombe and Coventry are 2 poor sides who got promoted from League 1 by playing less than 75% of a season and in Wycombe's case they were 9th when the season ended. Brereton played well yesterday perhaps it was because the opposition was more on his level. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

But none of that is the reasons why we lost the Forest. It was cruel defection goal. We could have gone 4-4-2 and lost the game by 2 goals. who knows. Rest of it is speculating and guess work. 

Most championship clubs don't play the Cardiff way. Watford was a solid defensive team from the games Ive seen before we played them and we created a number of chances against them. 

You need to look at the Cardiff and Forest in isolation as 2 teams playing differently for me. 

The current way of playing is right for our current squad of players. It is yielding results, performances and goals

Equally, Forest were desperately unlucky not to score minutes prior to Lolley's goal when Ameobi hit the post. Coventry were desperately unlucky to hit the post just before we got a penalty and man advantage which would have changed the game totally. Johnson was lucky to get a huge deflection for one of his goals at Derby. We were lucky that our first goal v Wycombe came from a potentially dubious penalty award.

If you choose to have the mentality of, we might have lost even if Mowbray had used alternative tactics/selections, without considering the alternative side of that argument when things go well/we get bits of luck ourself, then that is your choice. Ultimately, such a blameless mentality and lack of responsibility only creates a biased viewpoint whereby the manager is praised for what he has done correctly (as he was yesterday, we were very good) and then totally absolved of any responsibility when things dont go well. 

The current way of playing has collected 1.43 points per game so far this season. Last season we collected 1.37 points per game. It is yielding a minimal increase in terms of results and points accumulation so far that is still a fair bit off that needed to make the top 6. My point has never been that we should not play this way, that the current style isnt showing promise and signs of excitement or that anything is disatrously wrong, only that it can only be fully justified and fawned over when it gets us into the top 6 which I dont think is controversial or unfair.

[eire3382]

Indifferent start really.  When we are good we are outstanding.  When we are poor we struggle to break teams down. My impression is that Holtby is the key to this season.  His footballers brain is way ahead 

[rigger]

21 minutes ago, islander200 said:

A recurring one?See I don't get why we are comparing this year's team with seasons gone by?

We are playing a totally different game to what we have in previous years.

Half the starting team is also different to previous seasons.Kaminski ,Ayala , Douglas, Trybull and Elliot.Add a much better looking Brereton and Holtby seemingly having found a position.

Our style and the players are much much different so think it's way too early to say we struggle to break teams down .I can't see how this team ,squad and tactics can be compared in anyway with previous seasons.

One constant is the manager.

[islander200]

1 minute ago, roversfan99 said:

By recurring, I meant that many teams use a similar blueprint that Forest and Cardiff used (and has seemingly been frowned and looked down upon) for away games, in terms of being hard to beat, well organised and looking to score via a set piece or counter attack.

Whilst it is obviously an added concern that a problem we have faced last season seemingly has not been resolved, the criticism/concern surrounds the games we have faced in that regard from this season.

Yes but against both Forest and Cardiff we had nowhere near the first 11 I expect to play the majority of the season.Douglas, Trybull and Elliot will be major players for us this season and add Dack when he is back.

I believe that with the attacking players we possess creating chances will not be a problem, but we need to be more clinical.

The thing I just don't believe the squad as it is is built to go and keep thinhs

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Equally, Forest were desperately unlucky not to score minutes prior to Lolley's goal when Ameobi hit the post. Coventry were desperately unlucky to hit the post just before we got a penalty and man advantage which would have changed the game totally. Johnson was lucky to get a huge deflection for one of his goals at Derby. We were lucky that our first goal v Wycombe came from a potentially dubious penalty award.

If you choose to have the mentality of, we might have lost even if Mowbray had used alternative tactics/selections, without considering the alternative side of that argument when things go well/we get bits of luck ourself, then that is your choice. Ultimately, such a blameless mentality and lack of responsibility only creates a biased viewpoint whereby the manager is praised for what he has done correctly (as he was yesterday, we were very good) and then totally absolved of any responsibility when things dont go well. 

The current way of playing has collected 1.43 points per game so far this season. Last season we collected 1.37 points per game. It is yielding a minimal increase in terms of results and points accumulation so far that is still a fair bit off that needed to make the top 6. My point has never been that we should not play this way, that the current style isnt showing promise and signs of excitement or that anything is disatrously wrong, only that it can only be fully justified and fawned over when it gets us into the top 6 which I dont think is controversial or unfair.

I'm not fawning over the new style or saying we will definitely make the top 6.

But it's like this, on deadline day the majority of posters were buzzing with our signings.The very next day we play Forest,We play shit and lose the game.All of a sudden the posters who were happy with our deadline day signings are now saying things like "no chance of top 6"" we can't create when teams sit deep" "we will be closer to relegation than promotion"

All that was said without any deadline day signing included or having played a match for is yet.

Pre deadline day I and I presume others felt if we didn't add a couple, a left back certainly then we wouldn't make the top 6.

We added quality, had a very good window so surely it only right to wait till we have at least played a few games with the new additions before coming out with such statements.

I also find it quite sad people downplaying the hammerings we fished out.Yes those teams are not great but they ain't getting hammered every week either and against Wycombe we were 3 up before any sending off.Some of the same posters calling us fast track bullies are saying Reading for automatic promotion when they have played mostly the weaker sides in the division

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

52 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Yes but they ain't getting hammered every week.

I responded to a post where it was said 2 of our 3 hammerings were against teams down to 10 men.

I just pointed out we were already 3-0 up in one of those games prior to the sending off and the sending off had nothing to do with the victory.

In response to you we deserved to lose the game against Watford, but Foster did have to make a number of saves,we created plenty of chances and missed a penalty.They were also fortunate to keep 11 men on 

I'd say the sending off had everything to do with it going from 3-0 to 5-0. They gave up at that point.

[islander200]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I'd say the sending off had everything to do with it going from 3-0 to 5-0. They gave up at that point.

Armstrong was through if he wasn't taken down ,most likely would have been 4.

And I take it you didn't see the match as every time we went forward we looked like scoring when it was 11v11

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

38 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Not difficult to comprehend just find it extremely sad anyone would dream of labelling us so soon In the season when we have nearly half a new team.

Or liking posts that suggest our two hammerings were down to our opponents were down to 10 men despite being 3-0 up already in one of the games it finished 11v11.

No big massive rants about Brereton either yesterday?Or maybe you want to criticize him again for the amount of free kicks he wins with his "diving"

I can't stand divers no matter who they are playing for.

[islander200]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I can't stand divers no matter who they are playing for.

Well you must dislike 99% of players in the modern game then as all of em take a dive.

And all of Breretons free kicks where fouls wether he went down easy or not 

[islander200]

35 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I said at the moment we look like flat track bullies, which at the moment is perfectly true. In terms of points collected we have beaten 3 of the bottom 4 teams scoring 13 goals. In our other 4 games against sides higher up the table we have 3 goals and 1 point from 4 games. At the moment the flat track bullies tag is fair win in midweek and then on Saturday and we will have removed that tag.

Wycombe and Coventry are 2 poor sides who got promoted from League 1 by playing less than 75% of a season and in Wycombe's case they were 9th when the season ended. Brereton played well yesterday perhaps it was because the opposition was more on his level. 

Brereton played very well against Watford n midweek

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, islander200 said:

Well you must dislike 99% of players in the modern game then as all of em take a dive.

And all of Breretons free kicks where fouls wether he went down easy or not 

Yes, I do really dislike that element of modern football, diving and the ridiculous wages are two of the reasons why I'm not the football fan I used to be. Most of the fouls today are joke fouls. You see giants like Brererton falling over under the most minimum contact imaginable. Contact that wouldn't knock over a 12 year old kid.  It's just cheating really. Then I go and watch low level Rugby League on Sunday and I wonder how the players don't end up in hospital every week. Of course some do.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Armstrong was through if he wasn't taken down ,most likely would have been 4.

And I take it you didn't see the match as every time we went forward we looked like scoring when it was 11v11

You need to calm down , we were playing Wycombe not Barcelona. We'll see how good we are on Tuesday.

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

Yes but against both Forest and Cardiff we had nowhere near the first 11 I expect to play the majority of the season.Douglas, Trybull and Elliot will be major players for us this season and add Dack when he is back.

I believe that with the attacking players we possess creating chances will not be a problem, but we need to be more clinical.

The thing I just don't believe the squad as it is is built to go and keep thinhs

I'm not fawning over the new style or saying we will definitely make the top 6.

But it's like this, on deadline day the majority of posters were buzzing with our signings.The very next day we play Forest,We play shit and lose the game.All of a sudden the posters who were happy with our deadline day signings are now saying things like "no chance of top 6"" we can't create when teams sit deep" "we will be closer to relegation than promotion"

All that was said without any deadline day signing included or having played a match for is yet.

Pre deadline day I and I presume others felt if we didn't add a couple, a left back certainly then we wouldn't make the top 6.

We added quality, had a very good window so surely it only right to wait till we have at least played a few games with the new additions before coming out with such statements.

I also find it quite sad people downplaying the hammerings we fished out.Yes those teams are not great but they ain't getting hammered every week either and against Wycombe we were 3 up before any sending off.Some of the same posters calling us fast track bullies are saying Reading for automatic promotion when they have played mostly the weaker sides in the division

I feel there is an element of revionism in regards to blaming too much on injuries or moreso the timing of transfers. That is one of the downfalls of not doing the deals until later in the window, I dont doubt that the signings have the potential to improve us. I just am uncomfortable in regards to just being too blaze and blaming everything on unavailability. We can only judge on what we see and both performances and the results were poor. As long as unavailability is acknowledged which I have done so, I feel I am within my rights in questioning and criticising tactical errors that I have repeatedly not liked seeing. Out of interest, Gallagher wide, Chapman as a 10, Johnson sitting as the deepest midfielder and Evans further on, do you agree with any of these tactical choices or disagree? I am also IMO within my rights to question our performance in certain types of fixtures which I will come on to.

I dont specifically remember these quotes (obviously not saying they dont exist) but I personally have never said "no chance of top 6" and certainly that we "will be closer to relegation than promotion" and indeed whoever said these things especially the latter example I agree are guilty of hyperbole.

I have also not downplayed the hammerings, in all 3 match threads including this my post match analysis was full of individual and collective positives. My point amidst it all is until (and if) this hope, potential, promise and excitement manifests into consistent top 6 standard results, that is all it is.

Regarding the issues you deem as unfair that have perhaps lagged over from previous seasons, you have to accept that until we get results that show that we have overcome these things, that they can and will be brought up. Our ability to really batter teams when in the ascendency has often been questioned in the past. That IS something we seem to have changed, any notion that teams neednt worry about getting battered by us if we are on it has been shot down. I have seen plenty of justified praise for this development. Conversely, our home record has been ok since promotion but perhaps littered with a few too many draws and at times a failure to break teams down. Cardiff and Forest were 2 further failures of this historical issue. The developing style and the new signings MIGHT in time overcome this but at this moment they havent so the question mark will always be there. Another issue is not enough points against top 6 sides. Obviously we dont know yet who those will be, but the relegated sides are amidst the favourites, we competed with both but lost. No use to us and something hopefully we again can adjust soon. People can only judge on what has happened, a forum cant be expected to just totally withhold judgement on anything until a specific point in the season, judgement is continious.

[Vilesinner]

51 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But none of that is the reasons why we lost the Forest. It was cruel defection goal. We could have gone 4-4-2 and lost the game by 2 goals. who knows. Rest of it is speculating and guess work. 

Most championship clubs don't play the Cardiff way. Watford was a solid defensive team from the games Ive seen before we played them and we created a number of chances against them. 

You need to look at the Cardiff and Forest in isolation as 2 teams playing differently for me. 

The current way of playing is right for our current squad of players. It is yielding results, performances and goals

Johnson gave the ball away that led to the cruel deflection.