Swansea City away

[philipl]

Four key takeaways from the Reading and Swansea games.

1) At the sharp ends of the pitch, we haven't defended or taken chances clinically enough. Our opponents have. Ergo two defeats. 

2) We have competed and been a threat in both matches which has shown the effectiveness of having such a deep squad. However it is a conceit to think we can push for promotion with ten players unavailable. We have now averaged eight unavailabilities in every game so far this season.

3) At full strength. everyone of

Kaminski

Douglas

Ayala

Johnson

Travis

Rothwell

Dack

would get game time in the 14 players used by Rovers. The players we did put out competed and on another day might win. With those seven players listed above playing, we win

BUT

4) Mowbray- would he use the players to their full ability? Would he select an 18 and exclude Evans and Gallagher as he should if we were at full strength? Of the 14 used yesterday, would he select the correct four to start with the seven above and the right three to be used as subs?

I will just add one more caveat, I am all for giving players a chance but psychologically it is not working. We have recently seen Nyambe (yesterday), Buckley, Brennan, Davenport, even Dolan, getting game time but I don't know what others think- they have all looked to me to be nervous as hell and low on confidence. None of them have given us what they are capable of in their cameo appearances. Add in Lenihan not being right this season and something is not clicking mind-wise with too many players.

 

Edited November 1, 2020 by philipl

[dingles staying down 4ever]

As much as you can question Mowbray as a manger, the choice of keeper the facts are simple. If you dont take your chances and allow players to have free headers in the front of goal you are going to get beat.

We should have been in front before Swansea scored and we should have been level at least before the 2nd goal but Armstrong was misfiring. Thats the problem when you are over relient on one player to score the goals.

No team can keep conceding goals like we have been doing this season without questions being asked about the personnel involved. We cant blame inexperience of players when you have such an experienced spine of the team  as we've got even if it isn't the first choice.

It is clear 4-3-3 isn't working so we need to go back to the drawing board. If two centre halves cannot cover the gaps in front of goal then we need to go three in there. Yesterday we had a man spare in the middle of the park but you could not tell so he needs to be moved further back to help fill that big hole in our box because the two international defenders we have at the back just cannot defend for 90 minutes.

[cesus]

For me, the legacy of Mowbray not sorting the defence is what every signal fan will come back to. We concede dire goals, not just these last two games but for most of Mowbrays reign. The personnel has not been improved and we are reliant on loans to play left back with a long history of injuries. 

The air of stagnation at this club stinks, too easy for back pats when it's all going wrong. Not enough butting of heads, all too nice. Unfortunately it stems from the manager, and rightly or wrongly what we have seen from him for years. A new manager would have probably been able to get some slack for our injury crisis yesterday, Mowbray isn't afforded that as soon as we concede awful goals as he has consistently had an awful defence.

[matt83]

It seems the choice is fairly simple now. Accept mid table mediocrity under Mowbray (similar decision with bowyer) or gamble that another manager can give us the extra edge we need to go further knowing full well the Venkys track record of appointments is grim.

But who makes the decision. The Venkys are nowhere to be seen and we don’t actually know what interest if any they have. This could range from watching every game or just being told at the end of the season where we finished. Then the ceo swag who is the managers mate and has proved himself at best ineffective and at worse totally incompetent.  

 

ROCK       FANS        HARD PLACE 

It’s draining being a Rovers fan it really is. 

[joey_big_nose]

To use the 433 we need Kaminski, one of Bell/Douglas, Johnson and Rothwell back. Without them we simply don't have the personnel to make it work. Keeper is too uncertain and weak with his feet, full back way too vulnerable, and the midfield can't cover the ground effectively to press.

Does anyone know if they will be available on Tuesday? If not we need to change something.

I do feel for Mowbray, injuries and ommisions have been horrendous. But it's his job to react, and why couldn't he batten down the hatches and play a more counter attacking game, grind out some 0-0s, until you have a squad available who can play the system?

[Gone to seed]

15 minutes ago, matt83 said:

It seems the choice is fairly simple now. Accept mid table mediocrity under Mowbray (similar decision with bowyer) or gamble that another manager can give us the extra edge we need to go further knowing full well the Venkys track record of appointments is grim.

But who makes the decision. The Venkys are nowhere to be seen and we don’t actually know what interest if any they have. This could range from watching every game or just being told at the end of the season where we finished. Then the ceo swag who is the managers mate and has proved himself at best ineffective and at worse totally incompetent.  

 

ROCK       FANS        HARD PLACE 

It’s draining being a Rovers fan it really is. 

That BBC football focus thing yesterday summed it up for me (I didn't watch it, just saw the link on the Beeb site which contained the important info) - when the Dingles appointed Dyche they had a clear vision of what success was - for them it was to beat us. What is our (club) vision? Who is setting it? ............??

That's right - we DON'T HAVE ONE, and THERE'S NOBODY AT THE HELM (at least who gives a shit) to steer us in any other direction. Hence Captain Bumble can continue to bob around in the shallows going randomly this way and that, and there's no-one with any influence or interest to challenge the status quo.

SACK the BOARD (not this one) and GET A HUNGRY AMBITIOUS AND CAPABLE MANAGEMENT TEAM IN.

 

 

[Stonesrick]

This poor run we are on does not help youngsters like Dolan, Elliott and JRC. As each game passes you can see their confidence slowly ebbing away.

[Stuart]

27 minutes ago, matt83 said:

It seems the choice is fairly simple now. Accept mid table mediocrity under Mowbray (similar decision with bowyer) or gamble that another manager can give us the extra edge we need to go further knowing full well the Venkys track record of appointments is grim.

But who makes the decision. The Venkys are nowhere to be seen and we don’t actually know what interest if any they have. This could range from watching every game or just being told at the end of the season where we finished. Then the ceo swag who is the managers mate and has proved himself at best ineffective and at worse totally incompetent.  

 

ROCK       FANS        HARD PLACE 

It’s draining being a Rovers fan it really is. 

The question keeps coming back to: “how long do we have before enough is enough financially?”

If we have an indefinite amount of time because Venkys are infinitely rich and infinitely stupid (or we bury our heads in the sand and pretend it isn’t an issue - like many Bolton fans did when it was “only debt owed to Eddie Davies”) then yes Mowbray is a nice guy who wants to do things the right way - although I still balk at the way he has favourites - but his CV is no better than the most recent two Rovers managers. He’s a steady pair of hands but we are taking our chances in terms of going into a death spiral at the wrong time of the season.

If there is a limit at some point in the not too distant future then we cannot afford to plod along with promotion not even a prospect. It’s very easy to blame the situation this year but nothing has really changed in his approach and COVID didn’t affect his recruitment, with most happy with those that came in. As soon as he had the chance he began chopping and changing the team - Dolan still grates as there was no reason to drop him when he did except for his decision to bring in Elliott. Plus a similar situation with Nyambe (of course he’ll sign a new contract, why wouldn’t he - shades of Hoilett). Meanwhile he has persevered with certain players Armstrong for a long barren spell, Brereton for an ongoing barren spell (yes, he’s scored a goal whoopee) and now Pears, despite being the third goalkeeper recruited seems to be a new favourite and will be backed. These are the kinds of decisions that are holding us back and will continue to. You’re either a Mowbray’s man or you are on the rotation list. If you don’t like it, you’ll get a knock in training or symptoms.

For me, I cannot see us levitating like this forever and we need promotion. How many more season’s will it take Tony? Two, three? We have a decent squad who need a manager that can turn them into a successful team. We’ve thrown £12m at two failed strikers (on Mowbray’s watch) imagine if even a portion of that had gone on an experience manager - even as a promotion bonus!

Thank Tony for his service and have a decent recruit lined up. I’d take Sparky in a heartbeat but there is no excuse for not knowing the up and coming managers from the continent. Well, aside from the fact that all decisions appear to go through the manager who isn’t going to replace himself.

[tomphil]

13 minutes ago, Stonesrick said:

This poor run we are on does not help youngsters like Dolan, Elliott and JRC. As each game passes you can see their confidence slowly ebbing away.

Such is the reliance on these kids now though because of Dacks absence, Rothwell on the settee and the money wasted on we know who.

It's no wonder they soon fade away.

[Atko's Engine]

I didn't watch the match and have only seen brief highlights on YouTube. The stats suggest it was a pretty even game, though I know they can be misleading.

I bet Mowbray is tearing his hair out at what is going on. I don't agree with the Gally out wide thing & nor do I think Evans deserves the starts he's been given, but those issues aside he has been massively unfortunate. 

We're competing in every game, but players are either making stupid individual errors defensively (eg. Douglas, JRC & Lenihan v Reading), suffering huge misfortune (eg. Lenihan slipping when he went to challenge Ayew yesterday), or making the wrong choices up front & not making their keeper work enough.

We've got a good squad overall, most of us agree that, but he's not been properly able to utilise it due to illness & injury, which is beyond his control. I'm not saying he ought to have forever, he should be accountable, but the signs are there that this can be a successful season if we just persevere in finding some consistency at both ends of the pitch. There's still plenty of time to go, if we weren't competing I'd feel differently but we are, we just need consistency & momentum.

I remember in L1 feeling similarly, we stuck at it then & found that consistency. I think we can do that here, though I could be wrong of course...

 

[A Northern Horde...]

It's clear the early season enthusiasm has evaporated amongst the majority of fans and the reason is clear and present....we have seen it all before under this Managers tenure,the excuses Ad Nauseam.

Stupid,apathetic performances and results with Players being played out of position and as a result the Team looking confused and ineffective,sometimes even looking beaten before a Ball is kicked.

It's personally boring the shyte out of me,mindnumbing...this easy street Manager does not inspire nor motivate.

We're going nowhere and I'm fed up of it.

Edited November 1, 2020 by A Northern Horde...

[Sparks Rover]

7 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

I bet Mowbray is tearing his hair out at what is going on. I don't agree with the Gally out wide thing & nor do I think Evans deserves the starts he's been given, but those issues aside he has been massively unfortunate. 

You say he's tearing his hair out and then go on to give 2 examples that he has the ability to change.

This is all his fault mate, we are 4 years in....the guy was a defender and this makes it worse that he can't put a defence together.  

[47er]

19 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

The stats suggest it was a pretty even game,

We've had several pretty even games and lost them. This manager can't set up teams able to defend. He never has. Why does anyone think this will change, this year, next year, any year?

This isn't misfortune, its incompetence. When we miss so many chances as well, its a miracle we ever win at all. 

But then again look at the teams we've beaten.

Stop making excuses for him, stop thinking things will change while he is manager.

[Mattyblue]

2 hours ago, matt83 said:

It seems the choice is fairly simple now. Accept mid table mediocrity under Mowbray (similar decision with bowyer) or gamble that another manager can give us the extra edge we need to go further knowing full well the Venkys track record of appointments is grim.

But who makes the decision. The Venkys are nowhere to be seen and we don’t actually know what interest if any they have. This could range from watching every game or just being told at the end of the season where we finished. Then the ceo swag who is the managers mate and has proved himself at best ineffective and at worse totally incompetent.  

 

ROCK       FANS        HARD PLACE 

It’s draining being a Rovers fan it really is. 

Any reason you liked this post Phil?

Matt certainly isn’t painting a picture of a club with ‘optimum owners’?

Edited November 1, 2020 by Mattyblue

[USABlue]

17 hours ago, booth said:

It's the way we were playing that's wrong, and his continuing belief that putting Gallagher on the wing with 20 mins to go will have a positive effect on the team.

Just when I was calming down you bring up that fiasco again.  All just for the occasional knockdown.

[K-Hod]

It’s the same old, same old. Individual errors, (interesting that this only seems to happen to us), players out of position, poor players starting (Hi Corry), a former centre half that can’t set up a defence, conceding too many goals. 
I think this is half of the reason I didn’t let myself get carried away with some resounding results, because I knew we were more than capable of reverting to type....

[Uddersfelt Blue]

Lots of reasons why we're not winning games but maybe the biggest one is that we just aren’t physically strong enough to compete with other teams. OK we play some neat passing football and create chances but when it comes to the crunch we are too easily outmuscled by stronger players. Players who aren’t afraid to take a booking either when it matters. 

I’ve watched the first Swansea goal and Lenihan just wasn’t strong enough to hold off Cabango. 

Disregarding Nyambe who is a bit of a beast, how many players can we put in the same category? Not Evans, Holtby, Trybull, Elliott, Dolan or Armstrong. Gallagher who is probably the biggest player in the squad is a pussy cat and too easily knocked off the ball. We’ve lost Graham who could mix it up a bit and even Smallwood who could get stuck in. 

I’m not even sure that Barry Douglas adds that physical strength to the back line. Rankin Costello is a decent footballer but not what I would call a beast. 

We have missed Johnson who does give us a bit more physical presence. 

If we have a one slot left in the squad and there are any big players available Who are out of contract then maybe we need to fit one in. 

 

 

[USABlue]

2 hours ago, Stonesrick said:

This poor run we are on does not help youngsters like Dolan, Elliott and JRC. As each game passes you can see their confidence slowly ebbing away.

Confidence is ebbing because they are tinkered with, sacrificial lambs.  How good can it be for a young player to do all the right things then get dropped anyway.   Nyambe has to be about ready to lamp Mowbray soon.

[Atko's Engine]

For reasons beyond TM's control we're without Kaminski, Ayala, Douglas, Travis, Johnson, Rothwell & Dack. I reckon 100% of us would choose at least 5 of those 7 players in our first 11.

On top of that, we have support players such as Bell & Bennett unavailable. We've barely had a fit left back available in 2020.

These aren't excuses, they're reasons. I doubt other clubs have had such significant absences to cope with, and against that background obtaining consistency & momentum is nigh on impossible. Yes despite that, we're competing in games even against the toughest opposition in this division, but just not getting crucial things right or the rub of the green; every defensive mistake is being punished. I don't think Kaminski or Pears could've done much about 90% of the goals we've conceded.

Furthermore, we've had some of the toughest games too; away at Watford, Bournemouth, Swansea, home to Cardiff - all pre season top 6 favourites. We've lost to 4 of the the current top 6, including the runaway league leaders. Our next game is against another of them, in Boro. 

On the flip side, we've hammered our other opponents; there are far more opponents of that calibre in this division than your Watfords, Bournemouths & Swanseas. I'd be more worried if we weren't competing in games, or if we'd been losing to the likes of middling clubs like QPR, Brum, Millwall etc. But we're not, so I can still see the positives going forwards.

Mowbray isn't immune from criticism in my eyes. Gallagher isn't being played effectively, Davenport should be given a chance ahead of Evans, especially if Trybull is in a middle 3. Some substitutions appear strange. But to my mind these are consequences that flow from the initial adversity of unavailable players, and every manager at every club suffers fan criticism for such things, such is their lot.

I know I'll get labelled a happy clapper for this, that's fine. I prefer to think however that I am being even-handed and offering context to the recent run of bad results. It's not black and white, however many might paint it to be. And there's still a long, long way to go this season. 

Chin up everyone! 

Edited November 1, 2020 by Atko's Engine

[USABlue]

6 minutes ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

Lots of reasons why we're not winning games but maybe the biggest one is that we just aren’t physically strong enough to compete with other teams. OK we play some neat passing football and create chances but when it comes to the crunch we are too easily outmuscled by stronger players. Players who aren’t afraid to take a booking either when it matters. 

I’ve watched the first Swansea goal and Lenihan just wasn’t strong enough to hold off Cabango. 

Disregarding Nyambe who is a bit of a beast, how many players can we put in the same category? Not Evans, Holtby, Trybull, Elliott, Dolan or Armstrong. Gallagher who is probably the biggest player in the squad is a pussy cat and too easily knocked off the ball. We’ve lost Graham who could mix it up a bit and even Smallwood who could get stuck in. 

I’m not even sure that Barry Douglas adds that physical strength to the back line. Rankin Costello is a decent footballer but not what I would call a beast. 

We have missed Johnson who does give us a bit more physical presence. 

If we have a one slot left in the squad and there are any big players available Who are out of contract then maybe we need to fit one in. 

 

 

Closest thing we have to a beast is our Trav and he's out for a while.

[Sparks Rover]

5 minutes ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

Lots of reasons why we're not winning games but maybe the biggest one is that we just aren’t physically strong enough to compete with other teams. OK we play some neat passing football and create chances but when it comes to the crunch we are too easily outmuscled by stronger players. 

Just one reason mate, a defence thats incapable of keeping teams out.  We play well in midfield,  score goals....you are over thinking it just like Mowbray.

That lad who was forced to start for Liverpool yesterday had a fairly good game.  He's a local lad and we should/could have had him on loan for the last 2 seasons really...he's better than all our defenders, we could had him permanently if the deal went right....Mowbray just hasn't a clue about anything.  I could find 2 better centre halves this afternoon and thats the truth

[Gaz85]

Anyone that doesn’t acknowledge the players we have out as impacting our results/performances is showing a complete lack of understanding of the game (or most likely just using to fuel their Mowbray out agenda). To think you can just roll out 11 players every Saturday and Tuesday and get a result with no time to plan and prepare is quite frankly ridiculous. I’m not for one minute excusing some of the mistakes we have made (nor has the manager I might add).

I honestly believe when we get a fully fit 11 on the pitch and have them playing together consistently for a number of weeks we have a team that compete to be top 6. Let’s judge then.

[Atko's Engine]

31 minutes ago, USABlue said:

Closest thing we have to a beast is our Trav and he's out for a while.

Well according to the club website, his rehab is going better than expected, so hopefully that's promising. We absolutely mustn't rush him back though.

[arbitro]

Whilst there are many comments about Mowbray having been a centre half it should also be remembered that Venus too was a centre half. That said Danny Graham is on record as saying they have differences on how we should play.

[Crimpshrine]

Look at the players with have out injured

We are playing good attacking football - it will pay dividends eventually

Wait until the new lads settle in

Wait until Dack is back

Can't really judge due to covid

Victims of 'new manager bounce' against Forest

Watford have a £30 million player

Play like that every week and we will win more than we lose

Reading are flying - excellent team

Look at the stats - very even game

Swansea are second in the league and we matched them for the most part.

Anyone got any more excuses to add to the list???

Mowbray out, Venkys out.- they've both had long enough at our club.