Rovers v Middlesbrough Tuesday 3rd November

[arbitro]

I have little sympathy with Mowbray about the injury situation. Last night we had two of the clubs most expensive signings in history playing as strikers who didn't manage a shot on target between them and contrived to both miss on a cross that a Blackburn Combination striker would have scored. And both of these were signed by Mowbray. 

 

[Guest]

Stayed well away from the board last night and I'm glad I did, but my 2 cents is that we did okay. Let's get through QPR unscathed and head into a 12 game run before Christmas with some more bodies and a bit more confidence.

[chaddyrovers]

40 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Since Elliott Bennett months ago no player has been confirmed as having tested positive for Covid.

Both Bell and Johnson had test last week and still self isolating. Douglas the same.

Edited November 4, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[unsall]

7 minutes ago, Ruaney said:

I struggle to find sympathy with Mowbray and his injury excuses for the lack of shots in the second half last night. If you look at our team last night in the 2nd half it's not too far away from what we would have usually ended a game with last season. It's arguable that Armstrong and Travis are big misses but the rest is what we would have had to deal with last season when we were managing to be competitive. ie. 3-1 win against Bristol after Covid break.

Last night:

Pears (arguably just as bad as Walton)

Nyambe (better than Bennett) Lenihan Williams JRC (better than Bell)

Evans Holtby Rothwell

Elliot (better than what we had last season) Gallagher Brereton

 

Last season:

Walton

Bennett Lenihan Tosin JRC

Travis Evans Downing

Gallagher Holtby Brereton

 

Basically, what I am saying is the injuries do not wash with me. On paper we still have a squad with the injuries that is better than what we had to deal with last year. I'd have last nights second-half team to beat the Bristol team.

 

Take 10 first teamers out of Reading Watford etc and see how they manage, not just squad members but probably 6/7 who would be in the team.

TV pundits all agree when we get players back we will be up there. Pundits like Paul Cook as well who usually doesn’t like us, Lee Johnson another one, it’s not excuses it’s fact!!!

[Ewood Ace]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Both Bell and Johnson had test last week and still self isolating. Douglas the same.

But it has not been confirmed that they tested positive. We have only had one confirmed positive case and that was Bennett months ago.

Edited November 4, 2020 by Ewood Ace

[Ruaney]

Just now, unsall said:

Take 10 first teamers out of Reading Watford etc and see how they manage, not just squad members but probably 6/7 who would be in the team.

TV pundits all agree when we get players back we will be up there. Pundits like Paul Cook as well who usually doesn’t like us, Lee Johnson another one, it’s not excuses it’s fact!!!

I'm not saying I don't agree that we will be better when the injured players come back. I am saying I don't agree with the narrative that we didn't have any shots because all of our players are out. Tony got it wrong last night, that's the long and short of it.

I am under no illusions that when our full-strength team is out, we will be a far sight better. However, we have a SQUAD now that has good depth. Tony even mentions it all the time that our SQUAD is good enough to be up there. So which is it? we still need to be able to perform with the team we put out last night. Yeah, not as good as what it could be but still good enough in my opinion. Sick of the excuses. 

[Guest]

3 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

But it has not been confirmed that they tested positive. We have only had one confirmed positive case and that was Bennett months ago.

Over half a dozen staff members self-isolating also, which would suggest that somebody in the building has got COVID-19. My guess is that either Bell or Johnson is more than just a secondary isolation, which is backed up by Mowbray's odd comments on the pair.

Adam Armstrong also had a positive case a long while back, but never got officially announced.

Edited November 4, 2020 by JoeH

[islander200]

7 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

But you agree with everything else he/she wrote?

No I don't but the others are debatable but Elliot not being good enough come off it.

Iv Said before I think Brereton a good player just not a natural goalscorer or worth the fee we paid.

Think JRC has the quality to play in the championship but wouldn't have him as full back .

Trybull played one match since January after being frozen out at Norwich, think it's unrealistic to expect him to be showing his best when he has clearly been rushed in due to injury etc .

Despite the injury list Mowbray should be setting us up better and over his time here has proven himself to be very stubborn and won't give up on something despite evidence showing it doesn't work so wouldn't be against a change,still  feel performance levels and results will improve drastically when we get a few players back.

Edited November 4, 2020 by islander200

[Bbrovers2288]

1 minute ago, Ruaney said:

I'm not saying I don't agree that we will be better when the injured players come back. I am saying I don't agree with the narrative that we didn't have any shots because all of our players are out. Tony got it wrong last night, that's the long and short of it.

I am under no illusions that when our full-strength team is out, we will be a far sight better. However, we have a SQUAD now that has good depth. Tony even mentions it all the time that our SQUAD is good enough to be up there. So which is it? we still need to be able to perform with the team we put out last night. Yeah, not as good as what it could be but still good enough in my opinion. Sick of the excuses. 

Agree with this, team last night still had enough so called quality to have a better game than they did we didn’t get up the park all night, horrible to watch. We got away with 5,6 good opportunities boro wasted 

[islander200]

2 hours ago, Steptoe87 said:

What’s he done the last few games he’s still a kid needs to be dipped in and out of games he needs to work harder track back defend the last 2 games he has just walked about the pitch done 1 decent run in the full 95mins 

Pre match on sky sports they showed a stat most chances created in the championship with minutes played, Elliot was top.

You clearly have something against him, with your "he has a terrible attitude" when he signed.

The lad is a class above, will look even better when we get players back.

You do realise he is 17, playing every minute for an out of form side, in the later parts of games he looks dead on his feet.Im sure they would love to give him a rest but the circumstances are dictating they can't 

[chaddyrovers]

14 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

But it has not been confirmed that they tested positive. We have only had one confirmed positive case and that was Bennett months ago.

Armstrong tested positive aswell last June. 

We dont need to know. Even if they are self isolating then are still unavailable. Our first team coach is isolated. Our data analysis department is self isolated 

Edited November 4, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

12 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I really can’t understand the Mowbray out prograde.

Well I sort of do, you think by right we should be in the Premier League. You think bin Mowbray, get gods knows who in and all of a sudden we will be EPL.
 

Infact from what I see most you think Damien Johnson is the answer, because you know, you lot love an insider.

The majority of you think Johnson was shit, yet we miss him. You said we don’t need Downing now, yet he was our best player last season and now you rejoice he’s back.

The majority have bummed Lenihan for last few years, but are now seeing the useless waste of space Williams is our best centre half.

The majority wrote of Brereton as a 19yr old flop, desperate for Chapman after his 2 good games in League 1.

The majority didn’t want Armstrong anymore, league 1 player, now our star man and top scorer of the league, yet still some aren’t sure cos our million pound man doesn’t finish every opportunity.

The disaster that is Mowbray built this squad you all adore. He is the reason we got promoted first time asking, he is the reason we have this squad, (as in Elliott Bennett) another who the majority want out.

The majority on here do not have the first clue. Honestly. It’s not good enough right now, but it’s no where near manager out time.

 

Very good job at making out anyone who questions the managers position to be doing so on crazy demands that we have to become a Premier League, have a divine right to do so and sacking Mowbray will instantly grant that wish.

The results are consistently inconsistent and underwhelming. This season, across 2020, across last season, its always nearly but not quite and id be amazed if anyone can constructively prove that we are going in the right direction. We just seem to be going sideways, middling along.

For 2 years now at least, most keen to defend the manager have done so by claiming that once a mitigating factor is corrected, that everything will fall in to place. Once we fix the defence, well weve actually signed decent players, Adarabioyo last season for one but now especially with Mowbrays expansive tactics the back 4 is more exposed than ever. If Dack is back, then things will fall into place. When we have a fully fit squad we can compete for the top 6, a fully fit squad is a luxury managers very rarely have, but do we start judging when Travis is back around Christmas and refrain from judgement until then at which point any slither of a chance of meeting our expectations might already be gone? Once Gallagher and Brereton start firing, there seemingly is more chance of pigs flying, the fact that we couldnt muster up a credible chance all game with a 12m strikeforce has to be pretty damning on the manager. Our reliance on Armstrong is unhealthy, he has been undoubtedly very good (and the one poster advising dropping him was obviously talking nonsense) but there shouldnt be such a reliance on him and such a drop to our other 2 strikers.

The one aspect that i disagree with quite a few is the quality of squad, I think that people overestimate the quality within it. I do think a new manager could get more from it however.

[Mercer]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Armstrong tested positive aswell last June. 

We dont need to know. Even if they are self isolating then are still unavailable. Our first team coach is isolated. Our data analysis department is self isolated 

Armstrong June issue irrelevant.

First team coach isolated - IMO, a blessing in disguise.

Data analysis department isolated - firstly, does Mowbray not watch the game?  Greats such as Alf Ramsey, Busby, Shankly, Clough, Paisley etc didn't need data analysis - you can only imagine what Cloughie would have said about it.  Anyhow, mute point - surely they can work from home and communicate with Mowbray through media such as zoom.  IMO, it's just one feckin excuse after another.

As for injuries / unavailability - Mowbray signed Ayala knowing he missed a lot of games with M'boro through injury.  Sounds like history repeating itself as looks unavailable for Saturday which will be 4 games in a row.  We simply should not be signing injury prone players.

As for Downing's unavailability, IMO, stupid to sign a player of his age with no pre season etc - some third of the season will be gone before he's ready. 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Just now, Mercer said:

Armstrong June issue irrelevant.

First team coach isolated - IMO, a blessing in disguise.

Data analysis department isolated - firstly, does Mowbray not watch the game?  Greats such as Alf Ramsey, Busby, Shankly, Clough, Paisley etc didn't need data analysis - you can only imagine what Cloughie would have said about it.  Anyhow, mute point - surely they can work from home and communicate with Mowbray through media such as zoom.  IMO, it's just one feckin excuse after another.

As for injuries / unavailability - Mowbray signed Ayala knowing he missed a lot of games with M'boro through injury.  Sounds like history repeating itself as looks unavailable for Saturday which will be 4 games in a row.  We simply should not be signing injury prone players.

As for Downing's unavailability, IMO, stupid to sign a player of his age with no pre season etc - some third of the season will be gone before he's ready. 

OK - surely the great managers you quote didn't have to compete against teams with a data analysis team ? 

Ayala - sometimes you have to gamble (especially when money tight) - look at Santa Cruz !

Downing - who knows the background - but sounds to be money related.

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, unsall said:

Take 10 first teamers out of Reading Watford etc and see how they manage, not just squad members but probably 6/7 who would be in the team.

TV pundits all agree when we get players back we will be up there. Pundits like Paul Cook as well who usually doesn’t like us, Lee Johnson another one, it’s not excuses it’s fact!!!

Watford are a bad example, of course they are a former Premier League team but they have had Gray, Deeney, Dele-Bashiru, Hughes, Capoue, Masina, Perica, Success and a few others all out, they did when they beat us. Reading beat us with possibly their best 2 players out in Ejaria and Swift. "Full strength" Boro last night where without Hall, Morsy and Fletcher as well as Roberts being not fit enough to do anything but make the numbers up. Derby have had loads of bad luck with injuries, Jozwiak got an injury, Rooney had to isolate, Waghorn, Lawrence, Bielek etc yet there was nobody saying it was an under strength Derby that we hammered. Bristol City have just suffered a number of serious injuries all at once. Preston have had loads of injuries. There are so many absentees at the moment across the league, we are particularly hard done to at the moment of course but also we arent on our own.

There is a balance to be had between of course having sympathy at the frustration of having so many absentees but equally not just giving the manager a clean slate when there are controllables within the remaining squad whereby Mowbray can constructively be criticised for. If you have 12m worth of attacking talent you can surely expect to have a meaningful attempt at goal at home to Middlesbrough? You surely can expect to take at least one semi successful set piece rather than wasting every single one through the tactical choice to keep going short?

But my main issue is with this assumption that as soon as we get a clean bill of health (or close to as that isnt realistic) that we will suddenly click into gear and go on a run. There is absolutely no evidence of that. Our form in 2020 has been piss poor, not just in the last 2 or 3 games in which admittedly the injury table or moreso the list of people isolating has really increased.

Edited November 4, 2020 by roversfan99

[darrenrover]

4 hours ago, arbitro said:

I have little sympathy with Mowbray about the injury situation. Last night we had two of the clubs most expensive signings in history playing as strikers who didn't manage a shot on target between them and contrived to both miss on a cross that a Blackburn Combination striker would have scored. And both of these were signed by Mowbray. 

 

I agree Tony. Even though we were effectively battered for 90 mins, rode our luck, defended bravely, £12 million of striking 'talent' both fluffed their lines in a matter of seconds.

Ridiculous as it may be, we should have nicked all 3 points in those few seconds.

As 'strikers', there have also been many occasions in the past few games from superb crosses in key territory behind the back 4 and in front of the keeper by Elliott, JRC, Nyambe and Brereton, where if someone had gambled it would just have been a tap in.

Dare I say it, I'd get Rhodes in and bin Gallagher.

Edited November 4, 2020 by darrenrover

[rog of the rovers]

Ugly game, but could be a big point come the end of the season.

As said previously, in full agreement of the players returning making us a completely different proposition going forward with the season.

Kaminski, Ayala, Douglas, Travis, Rothwell (only half fit), Dack, and Armstrong all get into the strongest XI available......that's not even mentioning Johnson, Bell and Bennett.

7 of your best 11 out? And to still get a point? Shows good character

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

5 hours ago, islander200 said:

No I don't but the others are debatable but Elliot not being good enough come off it.

Iv Said before I think Brereton a good player just not a natural goalscorer or worth the fee we paid.

Think JRC has the quality to play in the championship but wouldn't have him as full back .

Trybull played one match since January after being frozen out at Norwich, think it's unrealistic to expect him to be showing his best when he has clearly been rushed in due to injury etc .

Despite the injury list Mowbray should be setting us up better and over his time here has proven himself to be very stubborn and won't give up on something despite evidence showing it doesn't work so wouldn't be against a change,still  feel performance levels and results will improve drastically when we get a few players back.

Agree with nearly all that I just wonder about performances/results. I think we've played either the really good teams in this league or the absolute shite. It'll be interesting to see how we do against the also-rans over the next month or two. 

[Blue blood]

40 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Agree with nearly all that I just wonder about performances/results. I think we've played either the really good teams in this league or the absolute shite. It'll be interesting to see how we do against the also-rans over the next month or two. 

We played Cardiff and Forest who both count as bang average and got 1 point... 

Not sure we can infer too much from 2 games but that's not a promising start. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

7 hours ago, unsall said:

Take 10 first teamers out of Reading Watford etc and see how they manage, not just squad members but probably 6/7 who would be in the team.

TV pundits all agree when we get players back we will be up there. Pundits like Paul Cook as well who usually doesn’t like us, Lee Johnson another one, it’s not excuses it’s fact!!!

It's not a fact, it's somebody's opinion.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

3 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

We played Cardiff and Forest who both count as bang average and got 1 point... 

Not sure we can infer too much from 2 games but that's not a promising start. 

I'd include Forest in the 'shite' category. 1 win in 9. 

[Waggy76]

2 hours ago, darrenrover said:

I agree Tony. Even though we were effectively battered for 90 mins, rode our luck, defended bravely, £12 million of striking 'talent' both fluffed their lines in a matter of seconds.

Ridiculous as it may be, we should have nicked all 3 points in those few seconds.

As 'strikers', there have also been many occasions in the past few games from superb crosses in key territory behind the back 4 and in front of the keeper by Elliott, JRC, Nyambe and Brereton, where if someone had gambled it would just have been a tap in.

Dare I say it, I'd get Rhodes in and bin Gallagher.

Well Rhodes would have scored last night !!

[darrenrover]

15 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It's not a fact, it's somebody's opinion.

You or I would have seen that cross coming Tyrone and done enough to see it nestle in the back of the net.

[Parsonblue]

7 hours ago, arbitro said:

I have little sympathy with Mowbray about the injury situation. Last night we had two of the clubs most expensive signings in history playing as strikers who didn't manage a shot on target between them and contrived to both miss on a cross that a Blackburn Combination striker would have scored. And both of these were signed by Mowbray. 

 

I must admit that I do have some sympathy with regard to the injury situation.  I think it's a result of so many games in such a short space of time and can understand why the likes of Pep etc wanted the extra substitutes rule to stay for this season.  I suspect we will have any number of players from all clubs going down with muscle injuries throughout the season.  Add that the whole business of self-isolating and I suspect we are going to see numerous make-shift sides selected.

Where I do agree with you is the point about our non-striking strikers.  Gallagher and Brereton have cost a huge amount of money, particularly given our financial position, and neither one looks anywhere near good enough for a team wanting to make a serious challenge for the top six.  The buck for that stops at the manager's door.

That chance last night was one that any natural goalscorer would have gratefully snapped up.  Sadly, these two are always that fraction of a second too late because they are usually on their heels and don't read the game in the way an instinctive goalscorer would.  You don't need to be a £5 or £6 million pound striker to score those short of chances - the likes of Tony Field and Simon Garner built careers on snapping up those type of chances.  Brereton has scored 1 goal in 10 games and that is when he is supposedly showing good form.  Gallagher too is a one goal striker so far, although admittedly he has been sidelined by injury but nothing he has done here in the past suggests he is going to be a 15 or 18 goals a season man.

I was looking back at Kendall's side earlier today and I thought last night's game was a game we would have nicked 1-0.  Crawford would have done nothing for 89 minutes, snapped up that chance and the defence would have held out for the win.  Sadly, I really don't see us getting the 1-0 wins that ensure a successful season at the moment.

[unsall]

7 hours ago, Ruaney said:

I'm not saying I don't agree that we will be better when the injured players come back. I am saying I don't agree with the narrative that we didn't have any shots because all of our players are out. Tony got it wrong last night, that's the long and short of it.

I am under no illusions that when our full-strength team is out, we will be a far sight better. However, we have a SQUAD now that has good depth. Tony even mentions it all the time that our SQUAD is good enough to be up there. So which is it? we still need to be able to perform with the team we put out last night. Yeah, not as good as what it could be but still good enough in my opinion. Sick of the excuses. 

Yeah he mentions our squad is good enough but not with 10 out, he wasn’t making excuses but it’s pretty obvious with a depleted squad as ours we aren’t going to be firing on all cylinders.

It was the tv presenters who highlighted all the missing personnel and said we will be in contention when everyone back.

Saying that, Gallagher was very poor, let’s hope Armstrong is back soon.

JRC is a decent footballer but L/b he isn’t but when you’ve got both your left backs out it’s difficult. Let’s see who’s available after the international break and go from there.