Mowbrays Successor

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

you do understand that, don't you? 

No, it's really complicated. Do you have any pictures?

 

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Working with Blackburn rovers youths , who are all scrapping to make careers for themselves and would do whatever is asked of them, with no intention of talking back, is not any indicator that he could step up to managing high paid and experienced professionals.

You're right. Imagine BB talking back at you. Or Gally, or any other of the nice lads. Terrifying. 

[DeeCee]

58 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise you were involved in professional football. I thought you were just a fella who called people 'twats' on a MB and got away with it.

 

  Steve Cooper, Brendan Rodgers, Jose Mourinho etc etc etc etc. They all coped. Not being a well known name appears to be fairly irrelevant. Lots of well known names have failed. Oh, it must be to do with the quality of the individual and their capabilities as a manager, rather than their prior ability on the pitch. 

😁

[Bigdoggsteel]

24 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

No, it's really complicated. Do you have any pictures?

 

You're right. Imagine BB talking back at you. Or Gally, or any other of the nice lads. Terrifying. 

I reckon Johnson should focus on his current job for now. He doesn't appear to be doing it very well, unfortunately. 

[JHRover]

With Mark Hughes it boils down to how eager he is to return to management and repair his damaged reputation or if he is happy to relax and wait for something to come along that genuinely excites him.

He's been out now for over 2 years and his last two jobs have ended in failure and the sack so the longer his absence from the game continues the more difficult it is going to be for him to get a decent job and the more likely it will become that he will be a forgotten man in management like Alan Curbishley, Alan Pardew and others. It is rare that managers come back from years out of the game and succeed.

Hughes clearly has an ego which no doubt comes from his playing days and has probably served him well. It was that ego that saw him walk away from us last time around and no doubt he would have gone sooner had an offer been made. I always had the impression he thought he was destined for much bigger and better than Rovers and yet that hasn't been the case for him.

He's going to have to accept that waiting for a Premier League job will likely see him never return to management. He might be fine with that, but if he's keen to get back into it then the Championship is going to be as good as it gets unless some foreign club take a punt (increasingly unlikely as time passes).

I think he's deluded if he thinks he's too good for a job like Rovers. A mid-table underachieving Championship club is probably the best he's going to get.

Too many folk are too negative about the offerings of Blackburn Rovers. Yes we've disinterested and clueless owners, and yes we've a bizarre structure with seemingly no investment or interest taken in the Club with any investment made just for the first team.

But there are perks to this job as Mowbray is proving by still being in it despite stagnation over more than a year.

Hughes would be worth a phone call but I wouldn't be getting on my hands and knees to beg him to return. It would simply be to ask him if he would like to be considered and to see if he fancied a crack at it and what his terms would be. If he wasn't keen I'd move on as the last thing we need is another Lambert scenario of someone here just to get their name back in the news before moving on after 6 months to supposedly better things. 

Plenty more fish in the sea.

Johnson should be a no. This club needs know-how and experience and handing it to a rookie just sets us off on another 2-3 year cycle of development and learning on the job. We are underachieving with this squad and are running out of time with it. We need someone who can come in and sort it out quickly with fresh ideas, outside eyes and a new voice for the players. That also applies to the coaching staff so Venus, Lowe and co. probably need to go as well. 

If we wanted to go down the tried and tested route then for me it would have to be a toss up between Mick McCarthy and Nigel Pearson. Those would at the very least have us in a similar position but with potential to hit the top 6. They certainly wouldn't have us any lower than we are at present.

Personally I'd rather we went on a bit more of a bold yet educated route and went for someone still up and coming but also experienced. Not a rookie but someone on an upward trajectory in the game looking for a chance to progress their careers here. Danny Cowley would fit that remit - comprehensive experience and knowledge of all leagues up to the Championship, available, done well in all his jobs and looking for that opportunity Huddersfield wouldn't give him. 

Failing that there are many other options out there worth looking into.

For those who seem to think that a managerial change is some massive gamble that we should look to avoid the answer is simple - if it doesn't work then make another change. We don't have to stick with the next manager for 4 years regardless of results. You bring someone in, give them a target and review.

The other way of doing things is that if we sell Armstrong say for £15 million then we use the bulk of those funds not to sign players or cover losses but to bring in a top, top drawer management team like Leeds did. I'm not saying someone like Bielsa would be obtainable for us but a game changing top level manager who could be lured with a massive salary and bonus and given 2 years to get us up.

[Dolly blue]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Great observation 

 

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Do we look well coached individually and collectively to you ? We look like a group of lads who've just come for a trial game to me. We look like we've never played together before.

That is exactly my point ! Many teams , in many leagues are images of their management....and many managers create/ coach / organise their players to yield something where the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. 
 

We have the parts .....but the sum is far less .....the world of Mr Tony Mowbray ......

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

With Mark Hughes it boils down to how eager he is to return to management

Yes he has been gone a long time from management but would he willing to drop to the championship and get a team promote if he could. Also who would be on his coaching staff as alot of regular coaching staff are in work already. 

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

Johnson should be a no

People say no to Johnson but does he want to manager or just he see himself as coach and developing players

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

If we wanted to go down the tried and tested route then for me it would have to be a toss up between Mick McCarthy and Nigel Pearson

same old names that have mention on here for years by fans. 

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

Danny Cowley would fit that remit

Cowley would be on my shortlist if we had vacancy and no restrictions with not being with a certain agents. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes he has been gone a long time from management but would he willing to drop to the championship and get a team promote if he could. Also who would be on his coaching staff as alot of regular coaching staff are in work already. 

People say no to Johnson but does he want to manager or just he see himself as coach and developing players

same old names that have mention on here for years by fans. 

Cowley would be on my shortlist if we had vacancy and no restrictions with not being with a certain agents. 

I've no axe to grind regarding the Cowleys but a bloke I know who is long time Terriers fan tells me they were hard work behind the scenes and had a habit of up setting people for no good reason.

[StevenSK]

4 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Exactly. Can't see why he would want to. Unless he has no other offers at this level. He will have offers I reckon though. 

Only PL job he will get is Newcastle.

Without set up and squad and distant owners and history our club is very attractive 

[roversfan99]

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

That's Steven Gerrard. His mere presence would get players to play for him. Of course it helps to have those foundations of coaching and managing, but it's a completely different situation managing a senior team. I meantion a few reasons above. 

I would prefer an experienced manager If we do make a change til the end of the season. Johnson would be straight in the deep end with no senior management experience. It would be a huge ask. 

I dont get this "until the end of the season" mentality at all. We arent at the point where we are in disarray, that we need a firefighter, a temporary solution, a loud mouth. You regularly mention Keane as if we need those scare tactics, instant reactions, we dont need that. We dont need a shock, we need a plan, a clear, fresh set of ideas to push us onto that next step.

Mowbray has put some foundations in place and done some good work. Clearly, we have hit a wall with him. The players dont seem to be not trying necessarily, to be revolting, or to be in crisis. But equally, Mowbray seems tactically confused, and totally unable to find consistency as he lurches between formations, trying to find a platform to play idealistic football based on flawed principles that only expose the weaknesses within. We dont need to try and play football obsessed with possession from the back, nor does the alternative have to be long ball percentage based which equally wouldnt suit us.

The chances of anything major coming from this season seem remote already. We have too many points and too much quality to realistically find ourselves in a dog fight. We would need an absolutely remarkable run of runs to sneak into the play offs, it is 99% likely that we will find ourselves in mid table so already an eye has to turn beyond that.

The key is not to be fixated by certain tags or categories. The natural instinct is to go for the experienced head, there may be value there, a Nigel Pearson or Mick McCarthy type. But maybe it warrants more creativity. Perhaps look abroad, look how that has benefitted Barnsley and Reading and how Watford have gone down that route and seem to have initially benefitted. Norwich did so when they got Farke. Or even imagination beyond that, look at Swansea with Cooper, or even look into League's 1 and 2. The rest of the season shouldnt be a short term mantra, of course the aim should be to sneak into the play offs until it isnt mathematically possible but it isnt a short term fix that we need to seek out. It is the next step.

35 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes he has been gone a long time from management but would he willing to drop to the championship and get a team promote if he could. Also who would be on his coaching staff as alot of regular coaching staff are in work already. 

People say no to Johnson but does he want to manager or just he see himself as coach and developing players

same old names that have mention on here for years by fans. 

Cowley would be on my shortlist if we had vacancy and no restrictions with not being with a certain agents. 

They are the same old names because we dont have the grasp of knowledge to be able to name managers across the world, but as mentioned earlier, they should be considered with Barnsley, Reading, Watford and Norwich all succeeding down that route. But people will say the same old names because that is what they know. That being said, id definitely swap Mowbray for Pearson and McCarthy now, both have much more impressive recent CV's at this level.

This is what you would do, not what the club might do if it still has certain links to certain agents. 

Would you sack Mowbray as a simple yes or no question if you was confident enough that the interviewing process would be thorough? Yes or no.

[chaddyrovers]

42 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Would you sack Mowbray as a simple yes or no question if you was confident enough that the interviewing process would be thorough? Yes or no.

at this stage no! I have said give him until end of the season and review from there. 

43 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

look at Swansea with Cooper

How many of us would have been recommend the England under 17's manager for the Rovers job when he got the Swansea job? 

Just imagine if Rovers appointed Adrian Boothroyd the England under 21 manager as Mowbray successor. Would you be happy with the appointment? 

45 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Norwich did so when they got Farke

Yes Norwich did appointed Farke but the man behind the scenes pulling the strings is their sporting Director Stuart Webber who put alot of behind the scenes infrastructure in place and training ground improves aswell as appointed Farke in the 1st place. Without Webber Norwich wouldn't have their success under Farke just like Wagner at Huddersfield who Webber appointed. 

Would you look to appoint Sporting Director and have Sporting Director/head coach structure? Its worked for Norwich and other clubs. 

Here a couple of questions for you to answer, If you were in charge of finding Mowbray successor what would your criteria be for the next appointment and would you look to appoint Sporting Director then allow him to bring head coach or would you appoint a manager? 

Also would you look for people to apply for the job or would you head hunt for the successor? 

Last question, would you bring in/listen to agent who offer a manager like a Wolves or Reading situation or ourselves seem to have done? 

Thanks in advance for answering those question 

 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

at this stage no! I have said give him until end of the season and review from there. 

How many of us would have been recommend the England under 17's manager for the Rovers job when he got the Swansea job? 

Just imagine if Rovers appointed Adrian Boothroyd the England under 21 manager as Mowbray successor. Would you be happy with the appointment? 

Yes Norwich did appointed Farke but the man behind the scenes pulling the strings is their sporting Director Stuart Webber who put alot of behind the scenes infrastructure in place and training ground improves aswell as appointed Farke in the 1st place. Without Webber Norwich wouldn't have their success under Farke just like Wagner at Huddersfield who Webber appointed. 

Would you look to appoint Sporting Director and have Sporting Director/head coach structure? Its worked for Norwich and other clubs. 

Here a couple of questions for you to answer, If you were in charge of finding Mowbray successor what would your criteria be for the next appointment and would you look to appoint Sporting Director then allow him to bring head coach or would you appoint a manager? 

Also would you look for people to apply for the job or would you head hunt for the successor? 

Last question, would you bring in/listen to agent who offer a manager like a Wolves or Reading situation or ourselves seem to have done? 

Thanks in advance for answering those question 

 

Your suggestion of whether I would be happy with Aidy Boothroyd suggests that you are pigeon-holing managers based on their source. Boothroyd was a journeyman with an underwhelming CV who I saw see a talented England Under 21 side crash out embarrassingly in the group stages under him in 2019. It is not about source of manager or type of manager, it is about individuals.

I would agree that Cooper would have been an underwhelming appointment, but he was a well thought out one from Swansea and has done a far better job than Potter who he followed.

My point is that we should consider managers across the board, especially in a position whereby we are not desperate for a short term fix, we want someone to take us onto the next level now we are stable yet becoming stagnant. The reason that people suggest the same names is because we only know a limited number of managers ourselves, we wouldnt suggest the England Under 17s manager, the Chicago Fire manager, the Dinamo Tiblisi manager or the LASK manager because we wouldnt have the knowledge, that is why people go for the same names on a messageboard. Maybe a Nigel Pearson or a Mick McCarthy will have better credentials or be deemed more suitable compared to anyone we can find elsewhere, I dont know but we shouldnt limit our search.

I dont like directors of football (or certainly "advising agents") because it invariably can lead to players signing for a club for whom the manager didnt want and thus doesnt play or use. I also think that at our club it provides more scope for things to go wrong, for things to become unnecessarily complicated. Maybe a senior manager such as Pearson and McCarthy may be better for us in that they are used to being the main man and are dominant figures but also could give us some better direction and would likely build from a solid base, rather than Mowbray whose tactics are confused, idealistic and unsuitable at this moment in time.

[LDRover]

12 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Your suggestion of whether I would be happy with Aidy Boothroyd suggests that you are pigeon-holing managers based on their source. Boothroyd was a journeyman with an underwhelming CV 

As was Mowbray when we appointed him.

I don't recall one person on here touting him for the job prior to his appointment yet chaddy is rewriting history as if it was some sort of coup to get him.

[RoversClitheroe]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

They are the same old names because we dont have the grasp of knowledge to be able to name managers across the world, but as mentioned earlier, they should be considered with Barnsley, Reading, Watford and Norwich all succeeding down that route. But people will say the same old names because that is what they know. That being said, id definitely swap Mowbray for Pearson and McCarthy now, both have much more impressive recent CV's at this level.

Absolutely spot on. Anyone who says "well who would you have replace Mowbray". Reading and Barnsley managers key examples of people no one knows but does well. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, LDRover said:

As was Mowbray when we appointed him.

I don't recall one person on here touting him for the job prior to his appointment yet chaddy is rewriting history as if it was some sort of coup to get him.

I can't recall anybody mentioning Mowbray at all before he was appointed. If there was a list of 25 likely candidates at the time I bet he wasn't on it. 

Edited January 17, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Exiled_Rover]

10 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Exactly. Can't see why he would want to. Unless he has no other offers at this level. He will have offers I reckon though. 

Hughes?

He's been poor for a while.

Unless he's bringing the Tafia with him I'm not sure I'd want him back either. 

[PeteJD13]

1 hour ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Absolutely spot on. Anyone who says "well who would you have replace Mowbray". Reading and Barnsley managers key examples of people no one knows but does well. 

The same Mowbray who failed to get the chesterfield job a few weeks before the rovers job came up

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

4 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

The same Mowbray who failed to get the chesterfield job a few weeks before the rovers job came up

We should get whoever got the Chesterfield job instead of him. 

[RoversClitheroe]

17 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

The same Mowbray who failed to get the chesterfield job a few weeks before the rovers job came up

No way?! 😂

[47er]

This fear we have that, if the failing manager is replaced , we would end up with someone worse, is quite illogical.

By example I give you Tony Mowbray!!

If we always appointed someone worse, then Mowbray would be the worst of the lot wouldn't he?

But he isn't is he? By quite a large margin I'd suggest.

He's just not good enough and he's had enough time and money to make us a force again and he's failed and his time is up!

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, LDRover said:

As was Mowbray when we appointed him.

I don't recall one person on here touting him for the job prior to his appointment yet chaddy is rewriting history as if it was some sort of coup to get him.

The scary thing is I think Mowbray and certainly Waggott are of the same mentality. There seems to be an attitude down there that we are lucky to have Mowbray here and that we should consider ourselves grateful. I can't remember the exact quote but Waggott said something in one of the Q and A sessions about being able to keep Mowbray here and it alarmed me.

Then there's the bizarre decision to commission a large flag of Mowbray that club staff wave before kick off. Again it seems almost akin to cult that Mowbray is some sort of legend here that we are lucky to have.

Of course the fact we rescued him from the wilderness by giving him a Championship job when nobody else would doesn't come into it. 

I don't actively dislike the bloke but he frustrates the hell out of me and the longer him and Waggott hang around the more that will turn. It has been a mutually beneficial arrangement for all concerned now for coming up on 4 years. He's recovered his reputation, had a promotion and four years of income from us. He's steadied the ship, grown a few assets and put us back where we were before the insane Coyle appointment and fire sale. 

Most experienced spectators can see where this is going and it seems pointless to me to drag it out for months more.

Of course sooner or later we will have another little purple patch. Not because Mowbray turns it around or improves but just because that's how he works and leave things long enough we'll hit some form again. Most wouldn't get the time but he will.

[Bbrovers2288]

Wouldn’t be my first choice but I’d still be happier with Sherwood than mowbray 

[philipl]

If we are waiting to the end of the season...

Well our season effectively got ended by Doncaster in case nobody noticed...

[darrenrover]

18 minutes ago, philipl said:

If we are waiting to the end of the season...

Well our season effectively got ended by Doncaster in case nobody noticed...

An average of 2 points per game between now and the end of the season would see us on 77 points. Normally more than adequate to secure a play off spot.

The season is far from over if the nettle is grasped now.

[Mattyblue]

Sharpe’s obviously seem enough, he’s flagging that Hughes wants back in management this morning...

[rigger]

3 hours ago, darrenrover said:

An average of 2 points per game between now and the end of the season would see us on 77 points. Normally more than adequate to secure a play off spot.

The season is far from over if the nettle is grasped now.

Have you seen our recent performances. With Mowbray in charge there will be no nettle grasping.