Mowbrays Successor

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, Southside Rover said:

It's so early on in the summer, to look at a squad list now and predict the worst is madness. So much can happen over the next month or two that could make things look different.

Davenport missing from the list and I don't see Rothwell going which doesn't make the midfield look so bad. I would like to see a real match winner in there like Mowatt or Hourihane.

Personally I'd play Brereton left again and go for a proven striker with the Armstrong money assuming he does go, if not then it's a case of plugging the gaps.

I think one of the 3 young centre backs will go but I do believe Harwood Bellis will come for another stint.

The board risks getting too negative. Most of us want the manager gone, he isn't going. I'm guilty of being negative. 

The squad isn't as bad as some are making out. Plus there will be additions. As you rightly say, no need to worry about the squad now. 

The owners have backed their man. Rare that happens these days. Plenty of successful managers of bygone eras would have been sacked from their roles If managing these days. We can but hope it's that type of scenario, but it's very hard to see that happening. 

 

Edited May 31, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[Sparks Rover]

37 minutes ago, Southside Rover said:

It's so early on in the summer, to look at a squad list now and predict the worst is madness. So much can happen over the next month or two that could make things look different.

They've done you mate. Groundhog day is accepted and Mowbray is the main man again.

[JHRover]

41 minutes ago, Southside Rover said:

It's so early on in the summer, to look at a squad list now and predict the worst is madness. So much can happen over the next month or two that could make things look different.

Davenport missing from the list and I don't see Rothwell going which doesn't make the midfield look so bad. I would like to see a real match winner in there like Mowatt or Hourihane.

Personally I'd play Brereton left again and go for a proven striker with the Armstrong money assuming he does go, if not then it's a case of plugging the gaps.

I think one of the 3 young centre backs will go but I do believe Harwood Bellis will come for another stint.

The only things we can base predictions on right now are what we have and what we think we are likely to have.

Right now, with the players leaving and the strong likelihood that we will flog Armstrong, with Dack out until the end of the year and may not recover, and a poor manager still here after last season's shambles the only logical prediction I can come up with is a long hard season of struggle. 

Everything that has come out of the club (admittedly not a lot) since the end of last season points towards cost cutting and extremely limited funds (if any) to strengthen the squad. Now that might be Mowbray and the club being canny and crafty and leading people to believe funds are tight, but I think more likely is that it is true and we are skint. 

This might change, if they surprise us with some funds or rabbits out of hats in the transfer market. But I think both are unlikely to happen.

My expectation is the only hope they have for funds being made available for new players is by selling some first. And top of that list is Armstrong. I wouldn't trust that to happen. I think expecting reinvestment of substantial funds from Venkys is optimistic - see Rhodes and Gestede. The money is more likely to disappear under the banner of FFP rules and excuses about not having enough time to get replacements in so we get some loans instead.

[skous18]

Cant believe he actually stayed. Absolutely ruthless and a clear middle finger to the fans. Foock anyone cares what we want. 

[martonrover]

6 minutes ago, skous18 said:

Cant believe he actually stayed. Absolutely ruthless and a clear middle finger to the fans. Foock anyone cares what we want. 

Exactly, in yet some people claim they listen to and are influenced by what the fans want.

Here is further proof that is not the case.

[Mattyblue]

Indeed. ‘The club’ talks of ‘increasing revenue’, something you would think is more vital than ever right now, of course, they tinker round the edges; like having a half dozen folk in Blues Bar on a Friday afternoon. Yet, the real revenue drivers, like ST sales, they instead put up two fingers and circle the wagons to keep their cosy set up in place, ‘they’ know full well that keeping the status quo this summer could well lead to a 1960/2012 esque collapse in crowds, but they obviously couldn’t care less as the betterment of BRFC is seemingly not the priority.

Just like in 2012, actually caring about the feelings of supporters, and the increase (or at least steady stream) of revenue that comes with engaging them and respecting their views is never the plan here, neither is reacting to, you know, results on the pitch.

Summer 2012, after 18 months of farce, appalling results, and the throwing away of PL prestige and riches, when the club was warned that not changing manager would see thousands walk away, they inexplicably kept Ke*n in position. That showed me that this club is not normal, it is run against the principles of professional sport at first team level, I.e putting a management team and squad together to win as many matches as you can, and a decade on nothing has changed (well the administration of it hasn’t, the club as a whole sure has and what a sorry state it’s in).

Edited June 1, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Roverthechimp]

If history is anything to go by we will keep Armstrong and flog Lenihan during the last week of the window. Armstrong will eventually leave on a free or low fee when he "refuses to sign a new deal"...

[BlackburnEnd75]

27 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Indeed. ‘The club’ talks of ‘increasing revenue’, something you would think is more vital than ever right now, of course, they tinker round the edges; like having a half dozen folk in Blues Bar on a Friday afternoon. Yet, the real revenue drivers, like ST sales, they instead put up two fingers and circle the wagons to keep their cosy set up in place, ‘they’ know full well that keeping the status quo this summer could well lead to a 1960/2012 esque collapse in crowds, but they obviously couldn’t care less as the betterment of BRFC is seemingly not the priority.

Just like in 2012, actually caring about the feelings of supporters, and the increase (or at least steady stream) of revenue that comes with engaging them and respecting their views is never the plan here, neither is reacting to, you know, results on the pitch.

Summer 2012, after 18 months of farce, appalling results, and the throwing away of PL prestige and riches, when the club was warned that not changing manager would see thousands walk away, they inexplicably kept Ke*n in position. That showed me that this club is not normal, it is run against the principles of professional sport at first team level, I.e putting a management team and squad together to win as many matches as you can, and a decade on nothing has changed (well the administration of it hasn’t, the club as a whole sure has and what a sorry state it’s in).

I look at recent successes of Blackpool, Bolton and to a much lesser extent (because their owner wasn't there long) wigan. 

Blackpool have managed to get rid of their unpopular owners who ran the club not in the benefit of the fanbase and our now thriving.

Bolton have managed to find a way to survive and get new management despite being weighed down by mountains of debt like us.

The last few months has changed my opinion on the future of rovers. I'm sick of being thankful for venkys pumping in millions to keep us afloat, when at the same time watch them completely ignore the wishes and needs of the fanbase.

I used to think I could live with this benevolent disinterest from the owners but I'm not sure I can anymore. They've missed another big opportunity to prove they've actually learnt something in the last 10 years.

[Dolly blue]

…so the season ends..I don’t envy Manchester City, Manchester Utd, Chelsea , Leicester ..the main protagonists…

…but I do envy Blackpool, Bolton , Morecambe …( and even Wigan) not because of their promotions but because they have found themselves again. They have spirit, soul, unity, future , hope… they are free from their shackles of debt and incompetent owners….whilst we are ….what we are !

…being led by dynasores ,  funded by those who don’t even know our identity.

Their fans will look forward…whilst all we can do is look back …many of us …” in anger “

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Indeed. ‘The club’ talks of ‘increasing revenue’, something you would think is more vital than ever right now, of course, they tinker round the edges; like having a half dozen folk in Blues Bar on a Friday afternoon. Yet, the real revenue drivers, like ST sales, they instead put up two fingers and circle the wagons to keep their cosy set up in place, ‘they’ know full well that keeping the status quo this summer could well lead to a 1960/2012 esque collapse in crowds, but they obviously couldn’t care less as the betterment of BRFC is seemingly not the priority.

Just like in 2012, actually caring about the feelings of supporters, and the increase (or at least steady stream) of revenue that comes with engaging them and respecting their views is never the plan here, neither is reacting to, you know, results on the pitch.

Summer 2012, after 18 months of farce, appalling results, and the throwing away of PL prestige and riches, when the club was warned that not changing manager would see thousands walk away, they inexplicably kept Ke*n in position. That showed me that this club is not normal, it is run against the principles of professional sport at first team level, I.e putting a management team and squad together to win as many matches as you can, and a decade on nothing has changed (well the administration of it hasn’t, the club as a whole sure has and what a sorry state it’s in).

Good summary but sadly it’s the same story retold.

I do wonder, when people like Waggott (or Mowbray) contact the owners for budget sign-off, or a transfer fee or ST sale approval: who do Venkys contact?

From day 1, this has been a de facto agent-run club, with puppets in the dugout. Not much seems to have changed since, especially when you consider the stable that Mowbray is associated with.

I just don’t see how anything is ever going to change until we are bought from an administrator. While other clubs recover from their implosions, we have yet to have ours. In the meantime we are in a state of suspended decimation.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

I look at recent successes of Blackpool, Bolton and to a much lesser extent (because their owner wasn't there long) wigan. 

Blackpool have managed to get rid of their unpopular owners who ran the club not in the benefit of the fanbase and our now thriving.

Bolton have managed to find a way to survive and get new management despite being weighed down by mountains of debt like us.

The last few months has changed my opinion on the future of rovers. I'm sick of being thankful for venkys pumping in millions to keep us afloat, when at the same time watch them completely ignore the wishes and needs of the fanbase.

I used to think I could live with this benevolent disinterest from the owners but I'm not sure I can anymore. They've missed another big opportunity to prove they've actually learnt something in the last 10 years.

I agree with this they'll never ever change no matter what and i really would not bet against those clubs passing us in the next few years.

There is only one of two ways to have a real reset at Rovers.

1 - They clear the decks and once and for all appoint a proper independent experienced CEO. With a plan and a reasonable budget. Similar to recent years that this lot have wasted. They allow that CEO to get in results driven staff.

2 - They finally do one, write off the debt, hold their hands up and say enough is enough. Leave the club in reasonable enough shape for someone else to have a go. That would probably mean a similar path to the other clubs mentioned but it is a pill plenty would swallow. 

If we are to be a leaner meaner middle of the road lower league outfit i'd rather it be along those lines. Become a proper club again instead of having overseas billionaires and their Blackburn based sycophants sneering at us for being ungrateful. And not turning out en masse to worship a self serving little clique happy to draw their money whilst going nowhere.

Number 1 is very very unlikely to happen as it never has, after ten years they still don't know the obvious.  So they never will.

[arbitro]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I agree with this they'll never ever change no matter what and i really would not bet against those clubs passing us in the next few years.

There is only one of two ways to have a real reset at Rovers.

1 - They clear the decks and once and for all appoint a proper independent experienced CEO. With a plan and a reasonable budget. Similar to recent years that this lot have wasted. They allow that CEO to get in results driven staff.

2 - They finally do one, write off the debt, hold their hands up and say enough is enough. Leave the club in reasonable enough shape for someone else to have a go. That would probably mean a similar path to the other clubs mentioned but it is a pill plenty would swallow. 

If we are to be a leaner meaner middle of the road lower league outfit i'd rather it be along those lines. Become a proper club again instead of having overseas billionaires and their Blackburn based sycophants sneering at us for being ungrateful. And not turning out en masse to worship a self serving little clique happy to draw their money whilst going nowhere.

Number 1 is very very unlikely to happen as it never has, after ten years they still don't know the obvious.  So they never will.

The only acceptable opinion to me is number two. The club needs an exorcism and sanitising of all the corruption, negligence and ignorance the 'owners' have shown over the last decade. The succession of inept appointments shows they have learnt nothing. The club may need to be rebuilt and we suffer another relegation or two but I honestly would take that now to have a club to support that I feel part of and we as supporters are valued. That situation might just open the door for some form of supporter representation in the running of the club. 

One thing for sure though is that we will never come near feeling comfortable with these people in charge.

[tomphil]

Got to look at it like this we are backed by billionaires who've been pouring in 10/15 million per season recently. They've allowed this management to spend 12 million on 2 players and build up and squad and infrastructure that is stretching the wage bill again to breaking point and needs that funding.

All for what exactly ?  To maintain lower midtable championship yet they STILL have to look at selling half the training ground. The ground last time i was down there looked dirty and unkempt compared to a walk around Boltons stadium last Saturday. Bolton who've been to hell and back and don't have a pot to piss in.

And this management regime after 4 years STILL don't know which way to go. Or which other clubs so called blueprint to follow. They change tack every year just to suite and deflect attention probably.

So yes it needs a proper reset otherwise events from 5 years ago will repeat themselves. The cycle following that probably won't.

It's about time they finally decided what they really want to do with the club once and for all.

[lraC]

It’s already being eluded to, by quite a few posts. The only way forward for OUR club is to somehow ensure Venkys no longer run it and influence it.

Blackpool are the closest example of shocking owners to ours. Fortunately for them, from what I can gather, almost all of the fan base, wanted Oystons out. With Rovers, there does seem to be a fair percentage, who believe without their money we are in deep mire. Also although it may be a dwindling number, there are those who for whatever reason, think they were badly advised.

As was the case with Blackpool, our current owners, are nothing, but trouble for the club. Whist they are here, most fans will wonder, what disaster will come about next.

Right now, the latest disaster is keeping Mowbray. The previous one, was the relegation to league one, ably aided by the appointment of Coyle. The next one, could be another relegation. 
 

Somehow we need rid and it may well be that we end up rid of them, by going into admin and just like Bolton and Wigan, come out of the other side free of our hapless owners. I got one, would take that. 

Its criminal, that much smaller clubs like Accrington Stanley and Morecambe, look far more stable than us and the recent clubs with issues, such as Wigan, Blackpool, Bolton, Luton, Portsmouth and others, all now look to have a far brighter immediate future than us.

[Mattyblue]

4 minutes ago, lraC said:

. With Rovers, there does seem to be a fair percentage, who believe without their money we are in deep mire. Also although it may be a dwindling number, there are those who for whatever reason, think they were badly advised.

. 
 

 

Those numbers certainly aren’t dwindling. I rarely come across a Rovers fan away from here that thinks anything but ‘badly advised’ and how they are now the best thing for the club.

 Almost a Pavlovian response to their name being brought up.

[lraC]

4 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Those numbers certainly aren’t dwindling. I rarely come across a Rovers fan away from here that thinks anything but ‘badly advised’ and how they are now the best thing for the club.

 Almost a Pavlovian response to their name being brought up.

It may well be wishful thinking on my part, or perhaps an unwillingness to accept that people can be so blind, to what has gone on. 

[Mattyblue]

And for me it’s why the club is facing an existential threat.

With a fanbase that just doesn’t realise/accept the club is in peril, coupled with the nefarious characters running the place and the big demographic change in the town since the PL days, I’m currently struggling to see a Blackpool-esque renaissance if we did fall down the leagues.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

And for me it’s why the club is facing an existential threat.

With a fanbase that just doesn’t realise/accept the club is in peril, coupled with the nefarious characters running the place and the big demographic change in the town since the PL days, I’m currently struggling to see a Blackpool-esque renaissance if we did fall down the leagues.

Agreed. Most clubs can survive dark days because usually they only last for a few years and then a resurgence begins. The Boltons, Blackpools, Lutons, Portsmouths have had financially enforced hardship which has lasted 3,4,5 years but then they've come out of the other side of it soon after with what appear to be decent new owners who understand their clubs, clear the decks financially and put the effort in to rebuild it.

We are now into year 11 of this ownership with no end in sight. Unique because most people would either have got fed up or run out of money by now. Venkys appear to have endless reserves of both. That period of time will wear down anyone. You can get away with 3,4,5 years of diminishing crowds, spiralling performance and neglect but we are looking at an entire generation here.

It is difficult enough as a 2nd tier club in this area of the country but when you combine it with what we have here - will the club ever recover from it?

I know Waggott and the people at Rovers will spin it and claim that work is done to engage with the community - pointing at the Community Trust and their work and the employment of this 'liason' officer or whatever he might be but it is barely scratching the surface. Proper efforts to engage fans - ticketing initiatives, improved matchday experience, travel to Ewood - all neglected because they require too much effort to put in place.

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by JHRover

[martonrover]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

Those numbers certainly aren’t dwindling. I rarely come across a Rovers fan away from here that thinks anything but ‘badly advised’ and how they are now the best thing for the club.

 Almost a Pavlovian response to their name being brought up.

Those people will make up the biggest proportion of the attendance at the Ewood echo chamber next season.

However, the bottom line is that a substantial number of previous season ticket holders / match attenders will not return to Ewood next season.

Blackpool supporters had it right - don't give the club any money whatsoever and don't attend.

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

The only acceptable opinion to me is number two. The club needs an exorcism and sanitising of all the corruption, negligence and ignorance the 'owners' have shown over the last decade. The succession of inept appointments shows they have learnt nothing. The club may need to be rebuilt and we suffer another relegation or two but I honestly would take that now to have a club to support that I feel part of and we as supporters are valued. That situation might just open the door for some form of supporter representation in the running of the club. 

One thing for sure though is that we will never come near feeling comfortable with these people in charge.

Agree totally

 

 

[Mattyblue]

There are a plethora of reasons they won’t come back; it’s because they are out of the habit, its boring down Ewood, sick of the manager’s tactics, ‘we’re crap’, ‘too dear’... of course, a lot of that comes back to the owners, but they don’t see it that way and many will go out of their way to absolve Venky’s (and inexplicably TM himself) from any responsibility.

[martonrover]

9 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

There are a plethora of reasons they won’t come back; it’s because they are out of the habit, its boring down Ewood, sick of the manager’s tactics, ‘we’re crap’, ‘too dear’... of course, a lot of that comes back to the owners, but they don’t see it that way and many will go out of their way to absolve Venky’s (and inexplicably TM himself) from any responsibility.

Agreed, but the net result is the same - a very low attendance level.

I still think the people you are talking about are likely to attend.

[Mattyblue]

Oh many of the ‘badly advised’ crew will, my point is of the ones that don’t, the vast majority won’t see it as any kind of protest against the owners, as away from here I just don’t see any anti-Venky sentiment, in fact the very opposite.

Its all very odd, most can see the club is a shadow of itself, but woe betide you point the finger at those holding the reins for a decade.

[BlackburnEnd75]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

Got to look at it like this we are backed by billionaires who've been pouring in 10/15 million per season recently. They've allowed this management to spend 12 million on 2 players and build up and squad and infrastructure that is stretching the wage bill again to breaking point and needs that funding.

All for what exactly ?  To maintain lower midtable championship yet they STILL have to look at selling half the training ground. The ground last time i was down there looked dirty and unkempt compared to a walk around Boltons stadium last Saturday. Bolton who've been to hell and back and don't have a pot to piss in.

And this management regime after 4 years STILL don't know which way to go. Or which other clubs so called blueprint to follow. They change tack every year just to suite and deflect attention probably.

So yes it needs a proper reset otherwise events from 5 years ago will repeat themselves. The cycle following that probably won't.

It's about time they finally decided what they really want to do with the club once and for all.

I think one of the reasons I've hoped for the eventually they'll turn it around approach is I'm desperate to hold onto the walker legacy, the stadium, the training ground, the academy. I'd want all that if we were to 'start again' and that may not be possible, but then again if they stay they will look to sell off the training ground anyway.

I don't know how they go, I don't know what they want from the club, I don't know who would replace, but this club will continue to slowly die until something drastic changes and its more likely that drastic thing is venkys leaving than venkys suddenly running the club properly.

[tomphil]

1 minute ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

I think one of the reasons I've hoped for the eventually they'll turn it around approach is I'm desperate to hold onto the walker legacy, the stadium, the training ground, the academy. I'd want all that if we were to 'start again' and that may not be possible, but then again if they stay they will look to sell off the training ground anyway.

I don't know how they go, I don't know what they want from the club, I don't know who would replace, but this club will continue to slowly die until something drastic changes and its more likely that drastic thing is venkys leaving than venkys suddenly running the club properly.

That's what i'm getting at really, the doom scenario chucked about in their defense is just as likely to happen anyway with them here.

We've already had 1 season in league 1 for the first time in about 40 yrs under their stewardship. Land sales which blight other struggling clubs have been tried to be put in motion here. A 15th place finish with the strongest championship squad could very well turn into worse next year with a weaker one.

The recipe for failure is already in the mixer and it's still costing 15 mill a year. Aside from their money propping up their mess would we really be a such worse club without them ?