Mowbrays Successor

[lraC]

9 minutes ago, tomphil said:

That's what i'm getting at really, the doom scenario chucked about in their defense is just as likely to happen anyway with them here.

We've already had 1 season in league 1 for the first time in about 40 yrs under their stewardship. Land sales which blight other struggling clubs have been tried to be put in motion here. A 15th place finish with the strongest championship squad could very well turn into worse next year with a weaker one.

The recipe for failure is already in the mixer and it's still costing 15 mill a year. Aside from their money propping up their mess would we really be a such worse club without them ?

 

I don’t see how we could, as without the proverbial to take a leak in, we had some great times and very near misses in the eighties. All down to people at the helmn, who cared and were open, some very shrewd management and players who at times, would sweat blood for the club.

Yes there was the odd failed project, but I don’t ever remember feeling that there were chancers at the club, who were more intent on self preservation, than the long term good of the club.

[chaddyrovers]

20 hours ago, rigger said:

Keeper : Kaminski, greek lad.

Right back : Nyambe, Pike.

Center-back : Lenihan, Ayala, Carter, Magloire, Wharton.

Left-back : Pickering, Need another.

Right midfield/ winger : JRC, Dolan.

Center-mid : Travis, Buckley, Johnson.

Left midfield/winger : Chapman, need another.

central forward : Gallagher, Brereton, McBride, Dack. 

You miss Davenport of the centre midfielder list and Pears from the Keeper list and Chapman is unlikely to be here after this month despite us offering him a new contract. Why play for a manager thats has no interest in him and playing him. Brereton is wide man in front 3 which looks like Mowbray will stick to 4-3-3 formation and his possession based game so any signings need to fit the formation and style of play he wants to play

I can see Maglorie leaving so looking at that squad we need a centre back, left back, 2 centre midfielders, 1 wide left player and at least 1 forward if not 2 if Armstrong does leave. 

 

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

You miss Davenport of the centre midfielder list and Pears from the Keeper list and Chapman is unlikely to be here after this month despite us offering him a new contract. Why play for a manager thats has no interest in him and playing him. Brereton is wide man in front 3 which looks like Mowbray will stick to 4-3-3 formation and his possession based game so any signings need to fit the formation and style of play he wants to play

I can see Maglorie leaving so looking at that squad we need a centre back, left back, 2 centre midfielders, 1 wide left player and at least 1 forward if not 2 if Armstrong does leave. 

 

Follow the entire debate not just the last post, or you will take things out of context.

[martonrover]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Oh many of the ‘badly advised’ crew will, my point is of the ones that don’t, the vast majority won’t see it as any kind of protest against the owners, as away from here I just don’t see any anti-Venky sentiment, in fact the very opposite.

Its all very odd, most can see the club is a shadow of itself, but woe betide you point the finger at those holding the reins for a decade.

Agreed, I think after the initial widespread anger during the early years of their ownership, (and Kean took the brunt of that), many people have simply gone past caring.

I do think they will notice very poor attendances, though, and that is what is going to happen.

[Mattyblue]

They may notice them, but will anyone be held responsible? Nobody usually is for failure at this club.

[tomphil]

3 hours ago, lraC said:

I don’t see how we could, as without the proverbial to take a leak in, we had some great times and very near misses in the eighties. All down to people at the helmn, who cared and were open, some very shrewd management and players who at times, would sweat blood for the club.

Yes there was the odd failed project, but I don’t ever remember feeling that there were chancers at the club, who were more intent on self preservation, than the long term good of the club.

When Saxton had gone as far as he could he was replaced because everything had gone stale.  All done without bankrupting the club and the new manager bounce proved to be very good indeed.

Now if Bob had got a Geordie mate through the door, to do Bill Foxs job !

We'd have been stuck with them and probably gone down whilst they covered each others backs.  We are long past that point again now even with money for big signings and wages for experience & luxury loans we don't go anywhere.

A new shot in the arm is needed for club and fans and the players need a kick up the arse.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 minutes ago, tomphil said:

When Saxton had gone as far as he could he was replaced because everything had gone stale.  All done without bankrupting the club and the new manager bounce proved to be very good indeed.

Now if Bob had got a Geordie mate through the door, to do Bill Foxs job !

We'd have been stuck with them and probably gone down whilst they covered each others backs.  We are long past that point again now even with money for big signings and wages for experience & luxury loans we don't go anywhere.

A new shot in the arm is needed for club and fans and the players need a kick up the arse.

Spot on.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, martonrover said:

 

I do think they will notice very poor attendances, though, and that is what is going to happen.

The owners will only notice it when the finance men raise it at the annual review. Waggott won't be bothered because he can just blame Covid and screw a bit more out of those who do go. Not long off retirement now anyway so his legacy of reducing the fanbase each and every season is certain to be intact. He can window dress by shutting the Riverside and moving the 1500 or so out of there and into the JW lower and BBE so it will look more full on telly.

If they ever do notice or care about plummeting numbers it will be too late and they will be gone, many unlikely to return.

[martonrover]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

They may notice them, but will anyone be held responsible? Nobody usually is for failure at this club.

Possibly not, but not low attendances are more likely to trigger changes than any demonstrations, (which clearly would not be well supported anyway).

I agree with you that people will no longer attend for a variety of reasons, but attendances will illustrate a level of discontent.

Some, like myself, have had enough and will not be attending as a means of showing that.

[martonrover]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The owners will only notice it when the finance men raise it at the annual review. Waggott won't be bothered because he can just blame Covid and screw a bit more out of those who do go. Not long off retirement now anyway so his legacy of reducing the fanbase each and every season is certain to be intact. He can window dress by shutting the Riverside and moving the 1500 or so out of there and into the JW lower and BBE so it will look more full on telly.

If they ever do notice or care about plummeting numbers it will be too late and they will be gone, many unlikely to return.

I agree, it's a pretty hopeless situation, but I'm certain that nothing else will have any effect.

[RevidgeBlue]

5 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

There are a plethora of reasons they won’t come back; it’s because they are out of the habit, its boring down Ewood, sick of the manager’s tactics, ‘we’re crap’, ‘too dear’... of course, a lot of that comes back to the owners, but they don’t see it that way and many will go out of their way to absolve Venky’s (and inexplicably TM himself) from any responsibility.

We've already seen that by the way in the Fans Forum minutes. Lynsey Talbot saying numbers are likely to be down because people will be wary of attending because of covid etc etc.

Not blaming Lynsey, only saying what she's been told to, but the major reasons will be obviously the Mowbray effect and the Brockhall fiasco.

Whilst the Forum seemingly sat there like the 3 wise monkeys.

Edited June 1, 2021 by RevidgeBlue

[Crimpshrine]

Lots of people coming to the same conclusion - We need to get rid of Venky's

As others have said, Blackpool fans got it right - NAPM. They had very well organised fan groups who got good coverage in the media and released regular, well presented statements. They had a very well respected leader in Christine Seddon and everything they did seemed to be supported by 90% of the fanbase.

The whole of Blackpool seemed to be involved - pubs had banners, taxi's had bumper stickers -'Oyston Out' painted on walls. They had some luck in the end with the court case going against Oyston but the fans were a big part of getting the case brought in the first place.

We need to get organised. I thought we were getting somewhere with the meeting at Blakey's when Coyle was appointed but it all fizzled out.

The only weapon we have is non-attendance and a media campaign. Everyone who loves the club needs to be involved. An organised effort may get results - we can have an influence.

Operation Empty Ewood - Reclaim the Rovers.

[simongarnerisgod]

1 hour ago, Crimpshrine said:

Lots of people coming to the same conclusion - We need to get rid of Venky's

As others have said, Blackpool fans got it right - NAPM. They had very well organised fan groups who got good coverage in the media and released regular, well presented statements. They had a very well respected leader in Christine Seddon and everything they did seemed to be supported by 90% of the fanbase.

The whole of Blackpool seemed to be involved - pubs had banners, taxi's had bumper stickers -'Oyston Out' painted on walls. They had some luck in the end with the court case going against Oyston but the fans were a big part of getting the case brought in the first place.

We need to get organised. I thought we were getting somewhere with the meeting at Blakey's when Coyle was appointed but it all fizzled out.

The only weapon we have is non-attendance and a media campaign. Everyone who loves the club needs to be involved. An organised effort may get results - we can have an influence.

Operation Empty Ewood - Reclaim the Rovers.

i mean no disrespect to blackpool but we are a much bigger club with a bigger fanbase,hence i don`t think it would work here,in fact i know it would`nt,it`d go back to the kean era,where fans were clashing because they could`nt agree about the best way to protest

[martonrover]

17 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

i mean no disrespect to blackpool but we are a much bigger club with a bigger fanbase,hence i don`t think it would work here,in fact i know it would`nt,it`d go back to the kean era,where fans were clashing because they could`nt agree about the best way to protest

Yes, we are a bigger club, but let’s have a look at the attendances next season.

@Crimpshrineis right, in my opinion.

I live in Blackpool and they fought the battle together as a town, not just supporters.

With Rovers supporters there is always an excuse.

[tomphil]

Their targets were within an area to get at to be fair.

Major problem with any war on our lot has been there's nothing to get at. Hitting them in their own back yard has proved nigh on impossible. We've never even had a local board of directors to target.

[Southside Rover]

23 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

They've done you mate. Groundhog day is accepted and Mowbray is the main man again.

No no no. Not what I'm saying at all. I've been very clear I'm done with TM and have said so for months. Even if we signed 5 World beaters I'd still want him gone. I'm just saying the squad itself has plenty of time to take shape. Last year it came together late and most were excited to who was signed. It didn't work out as most hoped or expected which comes back to the first point and the trend in this thread, TM is not wanted.

We've not got millions to do the business early especially when lokking at the loan market, they always seem to arrive late as other clubs jigsaws fall into place. 

[Southside Rover]

23 hours ago, JHRover said:

The only things we can base predictions on right now are what we have and what we think we are likely to have.

Right now, with the players leaving and the strong likelihood that we will flog Armstrong, with Dack out until the end of the year and may not recover, and a poor manager still here after last season's shambles the only logical prediction I can come up with is a long hard season of struggle. 

Everything that has come out of the club (admittedly not a lot) since the end of last season points towards cost cutting and extremely limited funds (if any) to strengthen the squad. Now that might be Mowbray and the club being canny and crafty and leading people to believe funds are tight, but I think more likely is that it is true and we are skint. 

This might change, if they surprise us with some funds or rabbits out of hats in the transfer market. But I think both are unlikely to happen.

My expectation is the only hope they have for funds being made available for new players is by selling some first. And top of that list is Armstrong. I wouldn't trust that to happen. I think expecting reinvestment of substantial funds from Venkys is optimistic - see Rhodes and Gestede. The money is more likely to disappear under the banner of FFP rules and excuses about not having enough time to get replacements in so we get some loans instead.

It's the journey remember. We need TM to conduct a press release to remind us.

I'm joking of course, I know where you are coming from and feel the same dread but there is so much time where it can change. Most are on a downer because of TM, the ownership etc. and now a depleted squad but if we retained Bell, Evans, Holtby, Downing and Bennett, would anyone feel any better?

Armstrong has been rumoured for so long its almost inevitable. I personally think he will remain but if he goes its what was expected and at least there should be some money to spend. 

That leaves the loanees that we knew would return to their parent clubs and rare they return for a 2nd year so it was inevitable it would look like this for a little while.

If it still looks like this at the end of July or worse, I'm in the same place.

[Sparks Rover]

17 minutes ago, Southside Rover said:

, I know where you are coming from and feel the same dread but there is so much time where it can change. Most are on a downer because of TM, the ownership etc. and now a depleted squad but if we retained Bell, Evans, Holtby, Downing and Bennett, would anyone feel any better?

I'm not sure the point you are making.  Surely if you want Mogadon out then you don't want him to be the one making the changes.  He's proved he can't buy a defender and he's losing his attacking threat by the looks of it..AA, JR, and the young lad has gone back to Liverpool.  We rely on loans for key positions in defence.

If he doesn't go the writing is on the wall.

[gumboots]

5 hours ago, Southside Rover said:

 

Armstrong has been rumoured for so long its almost inevitable. I personally think he will remain but if he goes its what was expected and at least there should be some money to spend. 

 

 

This is misplaced optimism. If we lose Armstrong, the money will never appear. We've seen over and over that money is never recycled into the playing squad. Sell Armstrong; lose goalpower; regress from an already weak position. That's the journey we are on.

[lraC]

1 hour ago, gumboots said:

This is misplaced optimism. If we lose Armstrong, the money will never appear. We've seen over and over that money is never recycled into the playing squad. Sell Armstrong; lose goalpower; regress from an already weak position. That's the journey we are on.

I tend to agree and the perfect excuse is there now with FFP. Assuming we get the £20 million for Armstrong, after Newcastle have had their share, we would have around £12 million in there. Add the £2 million for Raya and that’s a decent amount. I see nothing coming back into the pot for strengthening and replacing Armstrong and the others, who have gone, so think Ambitions for the season, are going to be bleak. 

[TheRoversReturn]

If AA's contract is up in 2022, then it makes no sense to lose him for free after the next season. He's hardly going to fire us to promotion to the prem while we have Mowbray in the dugout.

As for where the money will go...who knows? Lack of investment in the squad led us to League One, but then they also allowed TM to blow 12million on BB and Gally. No rhyme nor reason to those lot. 

[Stuart]

14 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

Lots of people coming to the same conclusion - We need to get rid of Venky's

As others have said, Blackpool fans got it right - NAPM. They had very well organised fan groups who got good coverage in the media and released regular, well presented statements. They had a very well respected leader in Christine Seddon and everything they did seemed to be supported by 90% of the fanbase.

The whole of Blackpool seemed to be involved - pubs had banners, taxi's had bumper stickers -'Oyston Out' painted on walls. They had some luck in the end with the court case going against Oyston but the fans were a big part of getting the case brought in the first place.

We need to get organised. I thought we were getting somewhere with the meeting at Blakey's when Coyle was appointed but it all fizzled out.

The only weapon we have is non-attendance and a media campaign. Everyone who loves the club needs to be involved. An organised effort may get results - we can have an influence.

Operation Empty Ewood - Reclaim the Rovers.

The bit in bold is key. We have a fanbase that will not share a single goal - or even know what that is. There is too much “nobody tells me what to do” and not enough caring about the club.

It could be argued that Blackpool were in a worse state than we are - Venkys are still paying the bills after all - but the outcome has broadly been the same relegation from the PL before settling in the Championship.

As unbelievable as it seems our fall from grace is still ahead of us. When the time comes, will our fans care? Our time came and went and not enough people did. A show of 90% of the fanbase against Kean would have at least sent a message of “don’t mess with us”, instead our message was “yeah, crack on”.

[Southside Rover]

21 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm not sure the point you are making.  Surely if you want Mogadon out then you don't want him to be the one making the changes.  He's proved he can't buy a defender and he's losing his attacking threat by the looks of it..AA, JR, and the young lad has gone back to Liverpool.  We rely on loans for key positions in defence.

If he doesn't go the writing is on the wall.

Sorry that it's not clear but nowhere do I say I want TM making the decisions?

Unless you know something I don't he's the Manager and it shows no sign of changing despite all hope.  My point is still that the summer is in its early stages and as we see every year, the squad has time to take shape so the gloom over our current squad as I was responding to originally is premature.

Of course we would all want it to look better and set ready for the 1st day of pre season but has that ever been the case?

As you quoted, let's say we retained those released, sure we would have numbers but would be writing about a lack of quality and why did we sign a b and c who aren't up to the job.

The club has cleared the decks of players most have said aren't up to it. Some remain divided on the quality of 1 or 2 retained but the decks are clear to bring in new players through the summer. Gloom in May is just to early in my opinion. Gloom on TM I fully support...

[Southside Rover]

15 hours ago, gumboots said:

This is misplaced optimism. If we lose Armstrong, the money will never appear. We've seen over and over that money is never recycled into the playing squad. Sell Armstrong; lose goalpower; regress from an already weak position. That's the journey we are on.

And we've seen investment with no sales so perhaps that hinders my "misplaced optimism"

[tomphil]

As last season showed and the BB signing and the Gallagher signing it's impossible to get optimistic even if we have a good window. 

That's why this early summer is gloomier than even previous ones, we know what's coming when the gaffer gets to work. He's still living off signing AA & Dack and lge 1 promotion years ago.

Lets be honest, yes he's blooded some youngsters but he's done jack all in this division with most of those he's signed. Not sure why it's wrong to expect anything any different this time around.