Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?

[Waggy76]

2 hours ago, 47er said:

Those LT comments contain a few who believe the club might be looking to sell off some of its carparks for residential purposes. Almost an admission we'll never be back in the Premier League if true.

Let's get ready to welcome Rochdale and Oldham to Ewood Park shall we?

I didn't mention Acc Stanley---they could be above us for the first time in nearly 200 years.

Ever since they arrived ,  Venkys have showed no appetite for the Premier League .

Relegation nearly happened in their first season and it was obvious it would in their 2nd...

Why and even, if they actually bought the club in the first place, is a mystery  and a bigger one is why they are still in situ ...

Edited February 23, 2021 by Waggy76

[Colt Seavers]

30 minutes ago, WIR Second Coming said:

What is the best way to get hold of Sharpe?

Probably around the neck.

[Gone to seed]

1 minute ago, Colt Seavers said:

Probably around the neck.

We might feel like it, but it may be more productive to bombard him via:

Rovers Reporter @richsharpe89 richard.sharpe@nqnw.co.uk 01254 298243

[perthblue02]

29 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

Venkys don't do state-of-the-art. Venkys said it going to build a state-of-the-art animal vaccine pharma plant in Switzerland. When it was eventually built, it wasn't state-of-the-art. The article i read said it was built to a 'high standard'.

Was that the one in Bassecourt, Jura ? Did it actually get built? remember looking into it a while ago and the last thing i could find was the winding up of the swiss holding company set up by Venky's, and a swiss article about work beginning to start on the site 18 months after the announcement that was about 2012. Funnily enough about the time they fell out with their Swiss based friends at Kentaro

Edited February 23, 2021 by perthblue02

[Mercer]

If you look at Twitter accounts for Sharpe and Bayes, I think you will see a few have tried to 'rattle their cage' a bit.

I don't think either are confrontational type of guys and strike me as being a bit 'jobsworthy' and anything for an easy life.  Neither strike me as being ambitious and therefore I don't think we can rely upon them to help to get to the bottom of all this or to pull a few skeletons out of cupboards.

If Sharpe and Bayes read BRFCS then I would be delighted if they went and proved me wrong though I'm not holding my breath!

[RevidgeBlue]

I haven't had time to go through all the links to the Coventry stuff in detail yet, was a training facility ever built there or did they end up with nothing?

[Richard Oakley]

1 minute ago, perthblue02 said:

Was that the one in Bassecourt, Jura ? Did it actually get built? remember looking into it a while ago and the last thing i could find was the winding up of the swiss holding company set upp by Venky's, and a swiss article about work beginning to start on the site 18 months after the announcement that was about 2012

Yes. I think it did get built. Their first Swiss partner had the Swiss police all over them. Venkys were going to spend $400m (which i didn't believe they had) on the plant. For some reason the figure of $250m sticks in my head, as does $270m, but that could just have been Venkys agreeing with whatever estimate a reporter came up with. I haven't checked up on it since and didn't know the Swiss holding company had been wound up. Perhaps the Swiss are tougher on what constitutes holding company activity than we are in this country. The Companies Registrar in the UK did start to wind up VLL after non-responses for information about lack of activity around 2012. Venkys responded and I've not seen any action started since.

[JHRover]

17 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I haven't had time to go through all the links to the Coventry stuff in detail yet, was a training facility ever built there or did they end up with nothing?

The sale of Ryton for housing never came to fruition. I'm sure the changes in personnel there were entirely unrelated, as was the fact that they haven't looked back since those changes winning two promotions.

So they are still at Ryton. There were more talks in 2018 about building houses but then in 2020 they spent money improving Ryton to get it up to scratch ahead of promotion to the Championship.

Both Brockhall and Ryton are prime sites for development of housing and quite affluent areas. Big difference is that Ryton is or was outdated and much smaller than Brockhall, whereas Brockhall remains a world class facility that doesn't need expanding or upgrading.

The ONLY acceptable reason for the Rovers plot is to get everyone under one roof and on one site. And I dont think that is do-able on either of the Brockhall sites, as neither are big enough alone for the requirements of a modern senior training ground and academy.

This simple insurmountable issue was why Jack Walker developed the second site elsewhere. A simple fact that the bottom site didn't have the room nor freedoms to build what was required so he went up on the other site.

Unless brainbox Waggott has managed to do what Jack Walker couldn't do 20+ years ago with all his money, ambition and contacts and develop an all in one facility on Brockhall then the only conclusion to reach is that the planned facilities will be significantly inferior to what we already have.

Given sweeping up rubbish and power washing are beyond the capabilities of Waggott's administration I know which I think it is.

Edited February 23, 2021 by JHRover

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

3 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

Oh, here we go, that old acorn.

Two examples of the Effect of ''External Financial Support''

I actually started to write on this but after 5 paragraphs realised that it would be a long essay that most would not read and that anyone who follows Rovers and Football in general should know the story.

So, just look at the past 10 years history of Rovers and compare it to that of Leicester City.

Both Clubs have for the past 10 years been owned by billionaires so both have had the availability of the magical ''External Financial Support''

However only one Club has had the backing of decent people.

That when analysed says it all and reflects in the current situation of these clubs.

 

Or Bolton or Portsmouth ?

I was just pointing out that we aren't self sufficient - we are no longer a Premiership club - and don't have a large fan base. Realistically - unless there are some genuine Rovers fans out there with very deep pockets - who would finance us ?

This isn't pro or anti-Venky - just the reality of our current situation (brought on by our current owners).

 

[RevidgeBlue]

8 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Or Bolton or Portsmouth ?

I was just pointing out that we aren't self sufficient - we are no longer a Premiership club - and don't have a large fan base. Realistically - unless there are some genuine Rovers fans out there with very deep pockets - who would finance us ?

This isn't pro or anti-Venky - just the reality of our current situation (brought on by our current owners).

 

Obviously we're not self sufficient, and we have no absolute right to expect Venky's to keep ploughing £20m p.a. into us indefinitely, but as they're way richer than the Walkers, is it not reasonable to hope they wouldn't flog of the fixed assets of the Club for short term gain?

Especially when there's a covenant specifically prohibiting a future owner from doing this sort of thing.

And that's before getting into the realms of ascertaining whether or not it is actually their baby and that all net profits from this would be flowing back to the Club.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

10 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Or Bolton or Portsmouth ?

I was just pointing out that we aren't self sufficient - we are no longer a Premiership club - and don't have a large fan base. Realistically - unless there are some genuine Rovers fans out there with very deep pockets - who would finance us ?

This isn't pro or anti-Venky - just the reality of our current situation (brought on by our current owners).

 

Whatever happened to Battersby and Co? Do they still hold an interest in the club or were they all fur coat etc

[Herbie6590]

5 hours ago, RoverDom said:

When you look at the sums and assume I havent missed anything, it can only be of any real benefit to someone earning a bit of commission out of this. 

I dont know if anyone involved in this is say a CEO on the brink of retirement... 

My understanding is that talk of early retirement is wide of the mark

[Herbie6590]

5 hours ago, arbitro said:

There is a new development going on close to me and through a friend who knows the people who sold the land I was told they got £60k per plot. The Ribble Valley would be higher I guess but some of the ridiculous figures being banded about are, I suspect wide of the mark.

20-25% of Gross Development Value is a reasonable desktop estimate I suspect...c.£20m perhaps ? (170*450k) 🤔

[arbitro]

9 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

20-25% of Gross Development Value is a reasonable desktop estimate I suspect...c.£20m perhaps ? (170*450k) 🤔

Thanks Ian. £60k is around 20-25% of the average price of a house on this new development.

[Miller11]

24 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

My understanding is that talk of early retirement is wide of the mark

Mine too.

[RevidgeBlue]

10 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Thanks Ian. £60k is around 20-25% of the average price of a house on this new development.

Sounds very low to me, this is Brockhall we're on about, I'd imagine the very cheapest units would be well in excess of £300k and the bigger ones way more expensive than that.

[RevidgeBlue]

27 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

My understanding is that talk of early retirement is wide of the mark

It will be now.

How long do you think he'll be here after this goes through? (If it does)

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

The sale of Ryton for housing never came to fruition. I'm sure the changes in personnel there were entirely unrelated, as was the fact that they haven't looked back since those changes winning two promotions.

So they are still at Ryton. There were more talks in 2018 about building houses but then in 2020 they spent money improving Ryton to get it up to scratch ahead of promotion to the Championship.

Both Brockhall and Ryton are prime sites for development of housing and quite affluent areas. Big difference is that Ryton is or was outdated and much smaller than Brockhall, whereas Brockhall remains a world class facility that doesn't need expanding or upgrading.

The ONLY acceptable reason for the Rovers plot is to get everyone under one roof and on one site. And I dont think that is do-able on either of the Brockhall sites, as neither are big enough alone for the requirements of a modern senior training ground and academy.

This simple insurmountable issue was why Jack Walker developed the second site elsewhere. A simple fact that the bottom site didn't have the room nor freedoms to build what was required so he went up on the other site.

Unless brainbox Waggott has managed to do what Jack Walker couldn't do 20+ years ago with all his money, ambition and contacts and develop an all in one facility on Brockhall then the only conclusion to reach is that the planned facilities will be significantly inferior to what we already have.

Given sweeping up rubbish and power washing are beyond the capabilities of Waggott's administration I know which I think it is.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Excellent post that I fully agree with

[arbitro]

9 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Sounds very low to me, this is Brockhall we're on about, I'd imagine the very cheapest units would be well in excess of £300k and the bigger ones way more expensive than that.

I was referring to the prices in a development in Darwen.

[Wovers]

14 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I was referring to the prices in a development in Darwen.

Speaking of Darwen, has anyone seen the new sports village being build there in conjunction with A.F.C. Darwen? They will have better facilities than rovers after all this.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

The sale of Ryton for housing never came to fruition. I'm sure the changes in personnel there were entirely unrelated, as was the fact that they haven't looked back since those changes winning two promotions.

So they are still at Ryton. There were more talks in 2018 about building houses but then in 2020 they spent money improving Ryton to get it up to scratch ahead of promotion to the Championship.

 

28 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Thanks for clarifying that.

Excellent post that I fully agree with

Not quite accurate as far as I can see. Ryton is still earmarked for residential housing, the sale of the land to the property developer has gone through. The delay is because they haven't built a replacement trainig ground as per a clause included when Ryton was sold:- 

The allocation of around 75 homes comes with the following condition: ‘Implementation of site allocation DS3.7 can only occur when adequate replacement of the pitch provision and training facility has been made to the satisfaction of Rugby Borough Council and Sport England in accordance with national planning policy.’

A site has been found but details not released:-

Statement by the club in 2018 "CCFC have secured an option to purchase land to develop a new state of the art training ground, on a site which is significantly larger than the current eight-acre one at Ryton"

Notice the wording!

The upgrade to the training centre at Ryton was cosmetic - basically a ready made structure that was put in and can presumably be winched out again when thy start building house there. 

Edited February 23, 2021 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

5 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

How long until we get to the stage under these 3 berks and venkys that Ewood is "no longer viable" for "a club our size who only get 5k attendances" and we are sold a vision of a new stadium somewhere only to end up ground sharing with Wigan "whilst it's in development" or something?

A bit dramatic but the parallels with Coventry seem scary to me.  

Frightening thought isn't it.

A soulless 20k concrete bowl in the middle of fecking nowhere just off the M65...our very own 'Breezeblock'  OH JOY!

Edited February 23, 2021 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[only2garners]

1 hour ago, arbitro said:

I was referring to the prices in a development in Darwen.

Houses on the Northcote Park development on the A59 opposite Northcote and very close to Brockhall were on from £625K. There's one left at £850K.

[RevidgeBlue]

16 hours ago, JHRover said:

A short history of events for those still catching up on things.

Episode 1 - Steve Waggott

2004-2010 - employed at Charlton Athletic, first in the Community Trust before ending up CEO of the football club. Our very short-lived Director of Football Paul Senior was also working at Charlton up to around 2004 according to his LinkedIn profile....

2011 - Waggott joins Coventry City where in March 2015 Tony Mowbray arrives as manager, and in June 2015 Mark Venus becomes 'technical director' - a move that enables Waggott to concentrate on his 'other responsibilities' at Coventry having been dealing with recruitment until then. https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/mark-venus-joining-coventry-city-9289138 

November 2015 - Waggott decides to leave Coventry City although no reasons given and doesn't have another job lined up. https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/coventry-city-chief-executive-steve-10392288

February 2016 - after 3 months out Waggott becomes CEO at Gillingham working alongside Paul Scally. https://www.coventrytelegraph.net/sport/football/football-news/former-coventry-city-chief-executive-10851093

January 2017 - after less than a year as CEO at Gillingham Waggott 'steps down' to become 'consultant' focusing on the new stadium development project'.https://www.gillinghamfootballclub.com/news/2017/january/change-of-role/

At some point between January 2017 and October 2017 Waggott leaves his 'consultancy' role at Gillingham and appears in October at Southend United, as 'head of operations' where his position seems to revolve around the 'transition from Roots Hall to Fossets Farm'. https://www.southendunited.co.uk/news/2017/october/reshuffle/

In December 2017 he leaves his consultancy job at Southend to take up the position at Rovers as CEO. https://www.southendunited.co.uk/news/2017/december/steve-waggott-moves-on/) 

Aren't we lucky that we've someone in place to oversee this much needed training ground project who has been headhunted by clubs such as Gillingham and Southend to oversee their developments (that still haven't even started to happen). 

Personally speaking I'm not impressed with what I'm reading.

Just been attempting to do a bit of homework and tie this in with the timeliness  of Otium Entertainment Group Ltd. which is freely available on the Internet.

Otium Entertainment  were I think technically the owners of the Football Club after they came out of administration and who I think purchased the Club's Golden share in the Football League and the FA  etc.

Otium started with different directors and initially appeared to have a nominal share capital of 1k.

A notice to strike the Company off the record from Companies House presumably for lack of activity and failing to file returns was sent out in  April 2013 and discontinued in May 2013 presumably when they got a response.

Waggott was appointed as a Director of Otium Entertainment in September 2013 resigning in November 2015. 

Venus was appointed as a Director in July 2016 and resigning in March 2017.

In May 2014 a return was filed stating that the allotted  share capital had jumped to £2661000 and it appeared to peak at a stated £3296000 in June 2015 before retreating back to £64,194 in a return filed a couple of weeks later at the end of that month.

Not sure what to make of this or whether I understand what has been going on. My gut feeling is that something not quite right is going on and at the very least is it not extremely undesirable that the CEO and "Technical Director" should also technically be part owners of the Club.

If anyone would care to elucidate and/or explain that I've got the wrong end of the stick please feel free.

[tomphil]

Looks like they might have had ideas of getting in on the act of owning and running the club but it fell through.