Brockhall STC - planning permission application ?

[phili]

The reason why they have not sold all of Brockhall in this transaction is that the whole of Brockhall can't be mortgaged, only the part that can be developed.

From what i have heard the new company will get a Mortgage from the Bank of India for £13m which the club will pay through rent. This will cover Venky's injection next year. As with League rules, the rent has to be at a commercial rate to be compliant, Derby were paying £1m for their training ground per year so expect Rovers to be paying £750k per season. There will also be break clauses to evict us if planning permission can be granted etc.

I know last year, Venky's did want to bring in new investors from their friends but it fell through. In a normal business, everything that is happening are the things you'd do preparing for a sale or new investment. 

[Miller11]

12 minutes ago, islander200 said:

So what about all the other clubs that did this?Derby ,Sheffield Wednesday ,Villa,Reading etc?

I didnt see any of them doing what your stating.If it wasnt to help with accounting or for the owners to be able to spend a few extra quid on the the playing side why did their owners do it.

I don’t think any of those clubs had produced plans to sell their training grounds to housing developers in the months leading up to their sales though.

I don’t think that threat has gone away.

[islander200]

12 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I don’t think any of those clubs had produced plans to sell their training grounds to housing developers in the months leading up to their sales though.

I don’t think that threat has gone away.

Its a fair point.How much  could a potential property deal fetch for the owners?

I expect a big number because throughout their time the losses havent seemed to bother them, and agreed pauses in spending but they have still spent a reasonable amount and supported a wage bill our income couldnt.

These guys are minted so what you are suggesting could be right but it would have to be a large number for me to find that  more plausable.

I think if the sale of the training ground/,property deal had gone ahead , similar money would have been injected into the club ensuring   ffp compliance and a small portion reinvested.

Im not in agreement with the way they are going about things and agree the secrecy and no communication with the fans is suspious 

 

Edited October 27, 2021 by islander200

[The giorgis donis fanclub]

8 hours ago, blondie said:

If everything is viewed as negative, then that's paranoia.

The only problem regarding points deductions is the relative amount of the sale, Derby and Sheff Wednesday were massively disproportionate to the actual value..

90% of non attendees will not return if Venky's depart, that is the crux.

 

 

 

I will

[cesus]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

Its a fair point.How much  could a potential property deal fetch for the owners?

I expect a big number because throughout their time the losses havent seemed to bother them, and agreed pauses in spending but they have still spent a reasonable amount and supported a wage bill our income couldnt.

These guys are minted so what you are suggesting could be right but it would have to be a large number for me to find that  more plausable.

I think if the sale of the training ground/,property deal had gone ahead , similar money would have been injected into the club ensuring   ffp compliance and a small portion reinvested.

Im not in agreement with the way they are going about things and agree the secrecy and no communication with the fans is suspious 

 

There appears to be some land for sale on rightmove right next door to "our"/Venkys Brockhall training facility. There are a few plots worth around £5m for all of them but I don't know how the size/planning permissions relate in relation to Brockhalls size. The plots equate to 135 acres.

 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/114174563#/?channel=COM_BUY

 

[Sparks Rover]

49 minutes ago, cesus said:

There appears to be some land for sale on rightmove right next door to "our"/Venkys Brockhall training facility. There are a few plots worth around £5m for all of them but I don't know how the size/planning permissions relate in relation to Brockhalls size. The plots equate to 135 acres.

 

https://www.rightmove.co.uk/properties/114174563#/?channel=COM_BUY

 

Bit by bit.......

[Crimpshrine]

4 hours ago, blondie said:

90% of non attendees will not return if Venky's depart, that is the crux.

 

And this 90% figure is plucked from where ?

Of the 10 or so committed boycotters that I know, all will return the minute they are gone - myself included.

[Crimpshrine]

2 hours ago, alcd said:

Absolutely. This appears to be about ensuring that on a sale of BRFC plc the STC is omitted so they can exploit its residential development value. And as a site no longer used by the football club, there is likely to be much less difficulty in securing planning permission.

This is exactly how it appears to me. The club won't even benfit from any extra cash injection because it just means that some of the losses for next year are already covered so less funds required from VLL.

It's all about protecting the one asset that may make Venky's some profit in the future. It may be a short term FFP benefit but Venky's will be doing this for the good of Venky's not for the good of Blackburn Rovers.

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, alcd said:

The sale of the site does not generate any cash. Neither does the issue of new shares. Only the sale of Armstrong. Whatever the reason for the intra-group transfer it has absolutely nothing to do with generating any income.

Of course those generate income. Not for Venkys, which is maybe what you meant, but definitely for the club's balance sheet so that we can spend without falling foul of FFP.

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, islander200 said:

 

Of course an injection of 16.6 million helps our cause with FFP and it takes away that excuse.Im not saying multi millions but some money will be spent either in january or next summer

Why not in the summer just gone? Why not on securing Leninan, Nyambe and Rothwell? Kaminski and Brereton?

The 'sale' was made back in June. The money isn't getting spent mate. It's getting used to prop up existing losses for FFP.

[lraC]

10 hours ago, arbitro said:

That makes so much sense to me as a layman. If Blackburn Rovers were put into administration then Brockhall would be exempt because Blackburn Rovers don't own it. Maybe the car parks at Ewood will go the same way.

It’s a worry. Imagine someone buying the club out of administration, who are cobbling the money together to save the club. Option 1 is to pay a rent to the people who ruined the club, to use a training facility. Option 2 is to go back to using the playing fields, in the local park.

[lraC]

9 hours ago, blondie said:

The amount of paranoia on here is frightening.

It's a way of creating funds outside of FFP.

I would be more worried if they did nothing and allowed us to run the club on income generated by 9,000 fans.

Regardless of all the mistakes , ignorance, complacency and arrogance portrayed by our owners, in the cold light of day we are poorly supported. I don't disagree with people's personal motives for non-attendance, but FFP will always restrict our growth due to the lack of income.

I was paranoid, when they once appointed a manager with no experience, who excelled is spouting bull shit. I was so paranoid, I thought this could end in us being relegated and perhaps mean, we never get back to the premier league in my lifetime.

I guess I could just be a paranoid person, or maybe I can spot villains at work, when it is right in front of my nose. 

[lraC]

7 hours ago, blondie said:

If everything is viewed as negative, then that's paranoia.

The only problem regarding points deductions is the relative amount of the sale, Derby and Sheff Wednesday were massively disproportionate to the actual value..

90% of non attendees will not return if Venky's depart, that is the crux.

 

 

 

I find it remarkable that anyone can consider, the journey under Venkys, can be anything other than negative. From being a premier league club, with manageable debts, to a season in league one and not the nearest sniff of promotion back to the premier League. Add to that, the current debt levels, decline in attendances, decline in the quality of the football and neglect of the stadium and it becomes very hard to see any positives. The latest trend seems to be let player contracts run down and sell them cheap, or for free.

A large part of the fan base have understandably become disillusioned with the owners and this latest, significant transaction, carried out under the radar, does not help matters. 
If you look at the boycotting and demonstrations carried out by Blackpool fans, who eventually drove their suspect owner out, then assuming we follow suit, the people staying away, due to the owners miss management, are highly likely to return at levels higher than the 10% you suggest.

Time will obviously tell, but whilst these people own the club, negativity thinly disguised as paranoia, will remain.

[islander200]

4 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Why not in the summer just gone? Why not on securing Leninan, Nyambe and Rothwell? Kaminski and Brereton?

The 'sale' was made back in June. The money isn't getting spent mate. It's getting used to prop up existing losses for FFP.

We tried to bring in Maja.Im not saying it will be loads but some money will be spent imo 

Do you know for a fact the club aint trying to get these players to sign new contracts?

Im not clued up enough to say for definite but as far as im aware,this summer we lose the money we spent from our first season back in the championship from ffp calculations so it will allow a little leeway to spend in next summer.

The club couldnt spend money the window just gone

 

 

 

 

Edited October 28, 2021 by islander200

[islander200]

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19677234.comply-ffp---blackburn-rovers-sold-brockhall-training-base/

Financial experts opinion the sale was done purely to comply with FFP

[Paul Mani]

7 hours ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

We are currently 'poorly supported' because the present owners have dragged the Club backwards on its arse for the last eleven years.They and they alone are responsible.

You know Blondie....those BILLIONAIRE big shots from Pune.

This sale just raises suspicions.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I’ve never cared for Venkys. Absent owners don’t work whatever the money spent. They don’t care enough.
 

What I do know is that our absent owners have spent £150m of their own money propping the club up whilst large numbers of supposed ‘supporters’ - people who self proclaim to love the club wont find £20 to buy a ticket for the match. They hide behind the Venky narrative.

The job of supporters is to get down to the ground and support the team in good and bad times. Football for fans is like religion or devotion to your kids. It’s endless and enduring in spite of hardship.

The saddest thing about Venkys reign is that they’ve shown just how fickle our supporters are. The 9k gates are pitiful and show the world how much we care. As custodians of the club we are the generation who are responsible for taking it forward by going to the game with our children to grow the next wave of Rovers suppprters.

Heres a thought…has anyone sat back and thought that some of the lads out of contract don’t want to sign because in reality there’s no soul in the club? Absent owners AND an absent fan base? Who cares at the club? Absolute carnage.

[arbitro]

51 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

I’ve never cared for Venkys. Absent owners don’t work whatever the money spent. They don’t care enough.
 

What I do know is that our absent owners have spent £150m of their own money propping the club up whilst large numbers of supposed ‘supporters’ - people who self proclaim to love the club wont find £20 to buy a ticket for the match. They hide behind the Venky narrative.

The job of supporters is to get down to the ground and support the team in good and bad times. Football for fans is like religion or devotion to your kids. It’s endless and enduring in spite of hardship.

The saddest thing about Venkys reign is that they’ve shown just how fickle our supporters are. The 9k gates are pitiful and show the world how much we care. As custodians of the club we are the generation who are responsible for taking it forward by going to the game with our children to grow the next wave of Rovers suppprters.

Heres a thought…has anyone sat back and thought that some of the lads out of contract don’t want to sign because in reality there’s no soul in the club? Absent owners AND an absent fan base? Who cares at the club? Absolute carnage.

That's some moral high ground you have taken for someone who actually boycotted. I don't blame anybody whatsoever for not going. Life under these owners has mostly been a decade of purgatory. To try and pin some of the blame on supporters for players not signing new deals is ridiculous.

[47er]

54 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

The saddest thing about Venkys reign is that they’ve shown just how fickle our supporters are.

One of the saddest things about Venky's reign is that they have divided the fan base. Personally I cannot stomach the notion that a group of aliens and walk into our club, steadily dismantle everything Jack did for us and we should simply take it and carry on as if nothing an happened.

You're asking people to be complicit in the destruction of something we love.

If we had gates of 20000+ what would they do with it?

We know don't we?--- because they've already done it! Why give them more to cannibalise?

[Beanie01289]

3 hours ago, lraC said:

It’s a worry. Imagine someone buying the club out of administration, who are cobbling the money together to save the club. Option 1 is to pay a rent to the people who ruined the club, to use a training facility. Option 2 is to go back to using the playing fields, in the local park.

Or when buying the club you tell them you will only buy it with the stc involved as the same people own it as many owners have done.

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, arbitro said:

That's some moral high ground you have taken for someone who actually boycotted. I don't blame anybody whatsoever for not going. Life under these owners has mostly been a decade of purgatory. To try and pin some of the blame on supporters for players not signing new deals is ridiculous.

I dont blame the fans who dont go, i still go myself but attended protests im not happy with how the club is run and want them out.

However i dont think we can moan at the owners for not spending money and throw our toys out of the pram when no money is spent or we struggle to offer high enough wages when FFP simply wont allow it.

I think its legitimate to moan at how the club is run and how the money was spent but dont think we can complain over the money they put in,its sufficient and we are still close to the limit with FFP.

I get the suspicions over this training ground fiasco but the club needed money at least something is being done about it.Unless the money a housing project would bring in would make a serious dent in the losses the owners have built up i domt find it plausable that its some underhand way of clawing some cash back.

If the deal had gone ahead last year and the housing development went ahead that money would have been injected into the club like the 16.6 million was.

 

 

 

[arbitro]

7 minutes ago, islander200 said:

I dont blame the fans who dont go, i still go myself but attended protests im not happy with how the club is run and want them out.

However i dont think we can moan at the owners for not spending money and throw our toys out of the pram when no money is spent or we struggle to offer high enough wages when FFP simply wont allow it.

I think its legitimate to moan at how the club is run and how the money was spent but dont think we can complain over the money they put in,its sufficient and we are still close to the limit with FFP.

I get the suspicions over this training ground fiasco but the club needed money at least something is being done about it.Unless the money a housing project would bring in would make a serious dent in the losses the owners have built up i domt find it plausable that its some underhand way of clawing some cash back.

If the deal had gone ahead last year and the housing development went ahead that money would have been injected into the club like the 16.6 million was.

 

 

 

It's exactly how the club is run that has out people off going. It's all self inflicted and the indisputable fact they are putting millions in is down to themselves. They bought an established institution and have decimated it and we, the fans have paid a heavy price.

The promised to respect Jacks legacy.

[Ulrich]

10 hours ago, blondie said:

If everything is viewed as negative, then that's paranoia.

The only problem regarding points deductions is the relative amount of the sale, Derby and Sheff Wednesday were massively disproportionate to the actual value..

90% of non attendees will not return if Venky's depart, that is the crux.

 

 

 

Everything has been negative since they bought us, hasn't it. Mid table, stable, well run premier league club, to what we are today, there are zero positives from the tenure. If people took there heads out of the sand and had done back when we could have made a difference, matters could have been different. After 10+ years of seeing fans constantly claim they need time, it could be good, considered alongside the reality of their achievements, you would have thought that these ostrich rovers followers would have realised the truth. Nothing good will happen with these charlatans in charge and we will end up less than when Jack started his journey. Wake up blondie, look at the facts and see the truth. This attitude of constantly giving them the benefit of doubt has played a significant role in our demise.

[Gav]

11 hours ago, blondie said:

If everything is viewed as negative, then that's paranoia.

The only problem regarding points deductions is the relative amount of the sale, Derby and Sheff Wednesday were massively disproportionate to the actual value..

90% of non attendees will not return if Venky's depart, that is the crux.

The highlighted part above isn't true I'm afraid blondie, certainly in Sheffield Wednesdays case they included the sale of the ground in the accounts for 2017/18 where they would have reported a pre-tax loss of £35.4m, following on from deficits of £9.8m and £20.8m in the previous two seasons, when in fact it was sold much later and couldn't be included in 17/18 accounts, cooking the books and incurring a points deduction and league 1 football. 

As for 90% not returning, history shows us quite clearly that if the product on the pitch is good, the Blackburn public will turn out in numbers, its been that way since 1875 and will continue to be that way forever. You put Blackburn Rovers back in the premiership right now and we'd see a massive spike in numbers coming to games, you take Venkys out of the equation and you'd see even more.

History also tells us these owners don't listen to fans, don't listen to footballing authorities or good footballing people and think they're beyond reproach, our situation doesn't improve until they leave the club, that should be the focus for every Blackburn Rovers supporter across the country. 

Venkys Out.

[toogs]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

The saddest thing about Venkys reign is that they’ve shown just how fickle our supporters are.

That’s the saddest thing?  Wow. 

All this is the fans fault?
 

We were getting 5k fans in the 80s

If you build it, they will come…

 

 

 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

I’ve never cared for Venkys. Absent owners don’t work whatever the money spent. They don’t care enough.
 

What I do know is that our absent owners have spent £150m of their own money propping the club up whilst large numbers of supposed ‘supporters’ - people who self proclaim to love the club wont find £20 to buy a ticket for the match. They hide behind the Venky narrative.

The job of supporters is to get down to the ground and support the team in good and bad times. Football for fans is like religion or devotion to your kids. It’s endless and enduring in spite of hardship.

The saddest thing about Venkys reign is that they’ve shown just how fickle our supporters are. The 9k gates are pitiful and show the world how much we care. As custodians of the club we are the generation who are responsible for taking it forward by going to the game with our children to grow the next wave of Rovers suppprters.

Heres a thought…has anyone sat back and thought that some of the lads out of contract don’t want to sign because in reality there’s no soul in the club? Absent owners AND an absent fan base? Who cares at the club? Absolute carnage.

This is the worst