Rovers v Watford Wed 24th Feb 19:45

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

Mowbray hasn't trained at the STC for about a month claiming the pitches are frozen. That is his decision. I don't believe his reason.

I sit in amazement at the breathtaking bewildering non-sequitors of things you don't think Mowbray is responsible for. You think he's done a good job. i don't. Hired to keep us up. he failed. He should have gone then, but got an improved contract. Been there before. 4 defeats in 11. One Southend fan going so far as naming him Southend's man of the match for changing formation back to the ineffective one that went 2-0 down. Mowbray lucked into team and formation. His game plan cost us the match at Charlton and with it the League 1 title.

Three seasons back working for owners who say they want us back in the Premier League pronto without delivering ands he wont this season, either. A manager who said he had to talk Venkys out of spending more money. What manager in their right mind ever does that? One named Mowbray. No sign of the £50m transfer war chest or Mr Balaji Rao's promise to pay Mowbray whatever it'd take to get us into the Premier League. Perhaps he liked fake Mowbray better than the real thing.

 

Your analysis of the League 1 season couldnt be any more biased, I have been his biggest critic for what I deemed to be not treating a potential title with the respect I felt it merited, I was at Southend in which we were poor, and indeed at all of those 4 losses in which things looked bleak. Overall though, that season was an undeniable success, I expected promotion and he delivered promotion. I also agree that he failed his first, admittedly very difficult task of survival

I feel that as we stand here today, we are in a better position than when he came in. I do not feel (and havent for a bit now) that he is the man to take us forward, to progress us on to the next level, or even that he has done a remarkable/brilliant job against the odds, but a good job I would argue is fair, and one in risk of stagnating if it continues for too long.

I also think that managers in general are reluctant to train on artificial indoors. Do I think that as you imply, it is a smokescreen for something far more sinister whereby he is playing a key role in the decision to sell off training facilities? Not at all. Do I genuinely think that there is an unlimited pot of transfer money ready and waiting for him to take that he repeatedly declines? No.

I have been quite critical of Mowbray over the last year, his team selections, his tactics, his mixed transfer record (mixed, not shocking) and a lack of on field direction. That can be reason enough to want a manager sacked without analysing his demeanour on the touchline, nit picking through his every word after games or indeed suggesting conspiracy theories about him being a protagonist in the downscaling of the club.

I think that if you said when he came, would you expect to be in the Premier League within 4 years, I would have almost certainly said no, but I certainly would not have said that should he fail to do so, then he threatens the very existence of our club.

28 minutes ago, Mercer said:

I think Mowbray's responsibility is to get success on the field and this comes through immaginative and successful  player trading, organisation, motivation, coaching, tactics and game management.  If he had got that right then I think we would have been back in the PL or getting there this season.

If the football manager isn't successful, the club won't be successful and there will be financial struggles.

I think the bottom line is our owners have 'lost' getting on for £200million because none of the club's CEO's or football managers they have appointed have cut the mustard.

In the days of Bob Lord, Burnley sold a player a season in order to survive and thrive.

Who have we got who would bring in £10, £15 or £20million.

Brereton and Gallagher who Mowbray signed wouldn't - it would, IMO, be chicken shit in comparison to some £12million in fees we shelled out.  I remember Mowbray's words about Brereton at Blues in Feb 2019, something like 'there's a lad who'll be worth £15, £20million in the future'.  Well if he'd got it right, I think it's pretty certain we wouldn't be looking to part sell / downsize Brockhall.

I think we have one saleable player asset (biggish money) and that's Armstrong.

The buck stops with the Football Manager and the CEO and, IMO, neither Waggott or Mowbray have delivered and that's why the club is, IMO, in one big mess.  

Going off on a tangent there. I dont want Mowbray or Waggott to remain in their jobs but I stop short of blaming him for things he isnt responsible for. You are saying that Mowbray is directly, personally responsible for us having no choice but to sell half of the current training facilities for not having achieved promotion in his first 4 years?

41 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

True, but surely if we go into 6, 7 defeat in a row territory, he will have to be sacked? 

Probably not, this is Venkys. He should have already been sacked but I wont be holding my breath and I wont be cheering on Watford tomorrow night.

[Richard Oakley]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Your analysis of the League 1 season couldnt be any more biased, I have been his biggest critic for what I deemed to be not treating a potential title with the respect I felt it merited, I was at Southend in which we were poor, and indeed at all of those 4 losses in which things looked bleak. Overall though, that season was an undeniable success, I expected promotion and he delivered promotion. I also agree that he failed his first, admittedly very difficult task of survival

I feel that as we stand here today, we are in a better position than when he came in. I do not feel (and havent for a bit now) that he is the man to take us forward, to progress us on to the next level, or even that he has done a remarkable/brilliant job against the odds, but a good job I would argue is fair, and one in risk of stagnating if it continues for too long.

I also think that managers in general are reluctant to train on artificial indoors. Do I think that as you imply, it is a smokescreen for something far more sinister whereby he is playing a key role in the decision to sell off training facilities? Not at all. Do I genuinely think that there is an unlimited pot of transfer money ready and waiting for him to take that he repeatedly declines? No.

I have been quite critical of Mowbray over the last year, his team selections, his tactics, his mixed transfer record (mixed, not shocking) and a lack of on field direction. That can be reason enough to want a manager sacked without analysing his demeanour on the touchline, nit picking through his every word after games or indeed suggesting conspiracy theories about him being a protagonist in the downscaling of the club.

I think that if you said when he came, would you expect to be in the Premier League within 4 years, I would have almost certainly said no, but I certainly would not have said that should he fail to do so, then he threatens the very existence of our club.

Going off on a tangent there. I dont want Mowbray or Waggott to remain in their jobs but I stop short of blaming him for things he isnt responsible for. You are saying that Mowbray is directly, personally responsible for us having no choice but to sell half of the current training facilities for not having achieved promotion in his first 4 years?

Probably not, this is Venkys. He should have already been sacked but I wont be holding my breath and I wont be cheering on Watford tomorrow night.

What did I write that was in any way biased? Mowbray admitted to lucking into a team and formation. 

Expect to be promoted in 4 years when backed by owners willing to spend the cash? Yes. I certainly would not expect the manager to want to slam the breaks on. I have no idea, if there is a causal link behinf Mowbray's failure to get us back to the Premier League and plans to sell the STC. There's no way Venkys can continue to make £20m a year available to the club, for FFP reasons, if no other. A financial crunch is coming, if we aren't promoted this season.

The club did not announce any plans in advance about selling land. That suggests that people at the club were trying to sneak it through planning in secret, just like at Coventry. Yeah, I'd call that a conspiracy on the part of the Coventry Three.

It's clear you don't understand what Mowbray having total control of football at Blackburn Rovers means.

[Richard Oakley]

If Watford beat us 4/5/6-0, I won't be cheering. If Mowbray and Co. get fired, I'll give a slight cheer, 'cos that's only half the job. I'll give a full cheer on having the right manager and board and promotion back to the Premier League.

[Mashed Potatoes]

4 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

What did I write that was in any way biased? Mowbray admitted to lucking into a team and formation. 

Expect to be promoted in 4 years when backed by owners willing to spend the cash? Yes. I certainly would not expect the manager to want to slam the breaks on. I have no idea, if there is a causal link behinf Mowbray's failure to get us back to the Premier League and plans to sell the STC. There's no way Venkys can continue to make £20m a year available to the club, for FFP reasons, if no other. A financial crunch is coming, if we aren't promoted this season.

The club did not announce any plans in advance about selling land. That suggests that people at the club were trying to sneak it through planning in secret, just like at Coventry. Yeah, I'd call that a conspiracy on the part of the Coventry Three.

It's clear you don't understand what Mowbray having total control of football at Blackburn Rovers means.

This is complete nonsense.It is impossible to sneak large scale developments through planning in secret; the local council will write to those who live in the vicinity.

[Richard Oakley]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

This is complete nonsense.It is impossible to sneak large scale developments through planning in secret; the local council will write to those who live in the vicinity.

You know that: I know that. Apparently, the club didn't.

[Guest]

50 minutes ago, neophox said:

Has anyone watched McBride and Pike? Your views?

As a Rover fan I always want us to win games. Even on wednesday. But cant see it happening.

A fifth straight loss may be a way nearer the axe for Mowbray. Sorry but cant see him gone before summer if he decides by his own to step down.

I was pretty uninspired by McBride early on, having watched a lot of his football from his time in Scotland after we signed him, I thought "why on earth have we signed this lad?'. But to be completely fair to him he's done pretty well. He's a poacher really, most of his goals have come from just a handful of yards out, and I'm fairly certain every single goal he's scored has been inside the box in some capacity. He has definitely grown some muscle mass since joining, and looks a much more physically dominant striker than most do at U23's level.

Dan Pike is, at least for me, the next big thing that our academy has produced. In my opinion he's got all the right skills and attitudes to go as far as Lewis Travis. I fully expect him to be involved come the end of the season in some way, and as we head into the 20's I'd only expect that to ramp up. An aggressive defender who despite his height wins a lot of headers. Likes to make inverted runs from the right wing into the central spaces and play the ball forward. Loves a sliding tackle and has been impressive in basically every game I've seen him play in since 2019 for the U18's/U23's.

[roversfan99]

27 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

What did I write that was in any way biased? Mowbray admitted to lucking into a team and formation. 

Expect to be promoted in 4 years when backed by owners willing to spend the cash? Yes. I certainly would not expect the manager to want to slam the breaks on. I have no idea, if there is a causal link behinf Mowbray's failure to get us back to the Premier League and plans to sell the STC. There's no way Venkys can continue to make £20m a year available to the club, for FFP reasons, if no other. A financial crunch is coming, if we aren't promoted this season.

The club did not announce any plans in advance about selling land. That suggests that people at the club were trying to sneak it through planning in secret, just like at Coventry. Yeah, I'd call that a conspiracy on the part of the Coventry Three.

It's clear you don't understand what Mowbray having total control of football at Blackburn Rovers means.

He compromised on a formation, he realised that the style he wanted to play in League 1 didnt work and was by recent standards, untypically pragmatic.

He showed tactical consistently, proactivity and a clear plan that is desperately lacking in recent times where he seems to have run out of ideas and confused himself, based on what I think are flawed principles of how football "should" be played.

Regarding the rest, I am aware of how our current way of working like many in this league is not sustainable, but I do not think that Venkys have to be restrained from putting more money in. Nor do I believe that Mowbray is behind the sale of training facilities. I think he is a decent manager who has done a good job up until a point, and is now stagnating up to the point of potential regression. I do not think he is a sinister crook trying to fleece the club for his own personal gain.

[Mattyblue]

Going to be pissing it down in Blackburn from this afternoon till KO tomorrow night.

Good job this new £2million pitch is on the way...

Edited February 23, 2021 by Mattyblue

[RevidgeBlue]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 Nor do I believe that Mowbray is behind the sale of training facilities. I think he is a decent manager who has done a good job up until a point, and is now stagnating up to the point of potential regression. I do not think he is a sinister crook trying to fleece the club for his own personal gain.

You surely don't believe that given the Coventry connections this Brockhall plan is purely coincidental do you?

Or that if Mowbray doesn't object to it he won't be well rewarded for it at some point down the line?

And for the avoidance of doubt I am not suggesting there would be anything technically illegal going on.

[WacoRover]

Getting back to tomorrow’s game...

Stopping Pedro, Sarr, Deeney, et al., is a tall order. Our defending has not been that bad, allowing 11 in the past 11. Rovers have not allowed 3 or 4 goals since October (3 to Watford, 4 to Reading). 

Rovers have outscored Wasps on the season, tbh, those goals were a long time ago, Rovers having scored only 9 in the last 11 games. we’re not good enough offensively to derail a fine defending team like Watford. 

I made my whimsical pick earlier; serious pick time,

1-2.

Edited February 23, 2021 by WacoRover

[Exiled in Toronto]

From here on in I’d play Travis and Davenport centre mid, Elliott, Dack and Brereton (who can hold the ball up long enough for Dack to trundle upfield) with the greedy bugger up front, and whoever is fit at the back.

[WacoRover]

9 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

From here on in I’d play Travis and Davenport centre mid, Elliott, Dack and Brereton (who can hold the ball up long enough for Dack to trundle upfield) with the greedy bugger up front, and whoever is fit at the back.

Yeah, defensively, I don’t know what else can be done. If Nyambe is healthy, that answers one question. Three questions remaining, LoL 

[tomphil]

58 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Going to be pissing it down in Blackburn from this afternoon till KO tomorrow night.

Good job this new £2million pitch is on the way...

It might not be if they don't get to flog the land.

 

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Going off on a tangent there. I dont want Mowbray or Waggott to remain in their jobs but I stop short of blaming him for things he isnt responsible for. You are saying that Mowbray is directly, personally responsible for us having no choice but to sell half of the current training facilities for not having achieved promotion in his first 4 years?

 

Just where the feck do I say that?

Will you stop misquoting / misinterpreting me.

The point I made is that by not achieving our goal to get back to the PL, the effect on our finances is huge.

Mowbray has to be personally responsible for results on the field of play.

I would think the ultimate decision to downsize our training facilities and realise part thereof is down to the owners.

And yes we do have a choice.  Sell some players - they are replaceable, the STC when houses are built on it isn't!

[oldjamfan1]

1 minute ago, Mercer said:

And yes we do have a choice.  Sell some players - they are replaceable, the STC when houses are built on it isn't!

Nobody in their right mind could argue with this, surely?

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

I was pretty uninspired by McBride early on, having watched a lot of his football from his time in Scotland after we signed him, I thought "why on earth have we signed this lad?'. But to be completely fair to him he's done pretty well. He's a poacher really, most of his goals have come from just a handful of yards out, and I'm fairly certain every single goal he's scored has been inside the box in some capacity. He has definitely grown some muscle mass since joining, and looks a much more physically dominant striker than most do at U23's level.

Dan Pike is, at least for me, the next big thing that our academy has produced. In my opinion he's got all the right skills and attitudes to go as far as Lewis Travis. I fully expect him to be involved come the end of the season in some way, and as we head into the 20's I'd only expect that to ramp up. An aggressive defender who despite his height wins a lot of headers. Likes to make inverted runs from the right wing into the central spaces and play the ball forward. Loves a sliding tackle and has been impressive in basically every game I've seen him play in since 2019 for the U18's/U23's.

As a keen observer of the under 23s, do you have any concern that despite our relative success at that level, there dont seem to be any players coming particularly close to getting into an underperforming first team, even upon injuries?

15 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Just where the feck do I say that?

Will you stop misquoting / misinterpreting me.

The point I made is that by not achieving our goal to get back to the PL, the effect on our finances is huge.

Mowbray has to be personally responsible for results on the field of play.

I would think the ultimate decision to downsize our training facilities and realise part thereof is down to the owners.

And yes we do have a choice.  Sell some players - they are replaceable, the STC when houses are built on it isn't!

I appreciate the correlation between on field success and off field stability but I still think its incredibly unfair to put together an inability to get promoted under Mowbray as a direct cause of selling the training ground.

These are decisions made by and thus are the responsibility of the owners, as you even say. I of course would agree that players should be sold first, obviously, but that isnt the managers doing. If we do sell part of the training ground, then the owners are to blame, 100%.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

Likes to make inverted runs from the right wing into the central spaces

AKA coming inside with the ball. 

[Oldgregg86]

4 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

You surely don't believe that given the Coventry connections this Brockhall plan is purely coincidental do you?

Or that if Mowbray doesn't object to it he won't be well rewarded for it at some point down the line?

And for the avoidance of doubt I am not suggesting there would be anything technically illegal going on.

Explains the slllloooowwwww build. He means getting the i’s dotted and the t’s crossed . Can’t rush these things 

[darrenrover]

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I want a change of manager and have for a bit.

But will hoping to get battered guarantee or even make that likely? No. But as with calling Owen Coyle "Coyley" and suggesting bets on us beating every team by 3 or 4 goals, your comments are done purely to provoke and court controversy.

To pin the blame on Mowbray for indirectly prompting the owners to downgrade the training facilities is a stretch even for you.

You really don't see any ulterior motives or potential benefits for 'The Coventry 3'? Really?

I thought better of you in honesty, are you really that blindly naive?

Examine the historical and current facts regarding the trio FFS!

A blind man on a galloping horse could join up the bloody dots!

Having a pop at Mercer does you no favours whatsoever, does 'tongue in cheek' mean anything to you?

For the record, I'd never, ever want Rovers to lose ever, irrespective!!

Edited February 23, 2021 by darrenrover

[4000Holes]

If after tomorrow as I expect.  
it will be 5 in a row on the Tony Mowbray show.  Nothing will happen.  However after Coventry on Saturday, if it’s 6 in a row then I would expect Tony and his mate to be potted.

[OldEwoodBlue]

Looking at the table right now this is MUST WIN game.

[WacoRover]

14 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Looking at the table right now this is MUST WIN game.

The 4 teams just below us, could all pass us with wins. If Coventry beats Swansea and we lose, they could be within two points when we play them this weekend. 

Yeah, I would say our situation demands three points; if we cannot pick them up vs Watford, Coventry becomes a must-win situation.... or we could well be toying with relegation. 

[Butty]

18 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

Looking at the table right now this is MUST WIN game.

Rotherham lost tonight so the gap to the bottom three remains the same so I’m not sure it is a must win game. Unless you were on about the top six which I’m sure you’re not? 

[tomphil]

If we don't win tomorrow night i can still see us spanking Coventry. It'll be all set up for that and a classic backs against the wall performance against a side we are better than.

[Ossydave]

Our form is so alarming, our performances so poor, a 10 point gap is going to be wiped out VERY soon unless something drastically changes.

Obviously I didn't want Gallagher to get injured but I must admit it MAY work in our favour depending on Mowbrays solution. Is he even arsed though? Certainly doesn't seem it.

Once again viewing the match doesn't promise any excitement but I'll watch it as I feel obliged to as always. The pitch is going to be a real bog, may favour us more than them though, will the likes of Joao Pedro, Sarr and Kiko Femenia really fancy a stinking night in Lancashire?