Rovers v Watford Wed 24th Feb 19:45

[Leonard Venkhater]

56 minutes ago, Dan said:

We need all the Coventry Con Men out. It wouldn’t surprise me if Maggot put his mate Bob the Builder Venus in charge until the end of the season, should he actually sack his mate. 

Coventry Con Men...Love that!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Waggy76 said:

You are right , my opinion was after the first season back up or even the Brentford debacle ...

I gave him the relegation season because he came in late and we very nearly escaped. In the promotion season the numbers of games we dominated for more than 30 minutes you could count on the fingers of one hand. OK we had the players who could turn a match at that level but lots of the time our play was turgid and incoherent. Our shape was poor, strikers like Andreason and Samuel  playing out wide, wingers like Chapman on the bench at the same time. I came to the conclusion that Mowbray wasn't the man for the job. Smallwood and Evans both playing as defensive midfield players against really weak teams etc etc. Ridiculous stuff like that.  Then when he said " I'll give the lads who got us up preference before any new signings " I thought - " Time we got somebody in who knows what he's doing ! "

I'd wager that clubs with a more hands on style of aggressive directorship like Brentford would have fired him then also. But Brentford wouldn't have appointed him in the first place

Edited February 25, 2021 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Bigdoggsteel]

The whole Mick McCarthy at Cardiff thing is compounding the frustration around our situation

Mowbray out!!!!!

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[chaddyrovers]

27 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

You have gone full 360 now chaddy, I’m glad you can see your mistakes backing him. I remember telling you at least two seasons ago mowbray was no good

Mowbray has had resources and backing from the owners since our promotion. This is his squad now. Yes we have good players but not good enough players for top 6 finish.

He cant complained at all. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray has had resources and backing from the owners since our promotion. This is his squad now. Yes we have good players but not good enough players for top 6 finish.

He cant complained at all. 

We have better players than the position we were in and I bet there are managers who would get that squad top 6. They would start with the defence. 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

We have better players than the position we were in and I bet there are managers who would get that squad top 6. They would start with the defence. 

We are were we deserve to be. Results are the results. And they put points on the board not performances

You can only sort the defence out when we have settle back 4 and not our 4 centre backs out injured. 

Maybe a different manager would but maybe he wouldnt. Like BBC Lancashire journalist Andy Bayes said at the weekend that this squad isnt top 6 quality

[Mattyblue]

Are there 14 better squads?

[Bigdoggsteel]

15 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We are were we deserve to be. Results are the results. And they put points on the board not performances

You can only sort the defence out when we have settle back 4 and not our 4 centre backs out injured. 

Maybe a different manager would but maybe he wouldnt. Like BBC Lancashire journalist Andy Bayes said at the weekend that this squad isnt top 6 quality

Well Tony thought we had a good enough squad. If it isn't ,that's on Mowbray. Longest serving manager in the league, decent budget and no sales forced on him. Pitiful position we find ourselves in. 

That's what happens when you neglect the defence, unfortunately. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

We are were we deserve to be. Results are the results. And they put points on the board not performances

You can only sort the defence out when we have settle back 4 and not our 4 centre backs out injured. 

Maybe a different manager would but maybe he wouldnt. Like BBC Lancashire journalist Andy Bayes said at the weekend that this squad isnt top 6 quality

I'd have more sympathy regarding our  lack of regular centre backs if we hadn't have signed one who is extremely injury prone when we already have two who often go missing for various reasons. We were unlucky with Wharton and unlucky with Kipre who West Brom seem to have signed on a whim.

To be honest are the two loanees any bettter than Magloire ? He had Jamie Vardy under his thumb in that game against Leicester. I know it was only a friendly but the likes of Vardy don't know what it is to take it easy in a game. That's why he's where he is.

[booth]

11 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

We have better players than the position we were in and I bet there are managers who would get that squad top 6. They would start with the defence. 

It’s the defence and has been since he arrived, yet he chose to put that to the back of his mind. And now we’re seeing the consequences of that continual neglect as he’s now forced to play two kids at the back, a Leeds outcast and the only decent one amongst them who is continually used as scapegoat.

[Ghost7]

It's simple really, to keep your job as a manger if the results aren't there, then the performances have to be and vice versa.

If the results and performances aren't there for a sustained period then you get fired. 

This has highlighted something that is still a major problem at the club and has been since Venky's arrived:

Knowledgable footballing people with the club and fans' best interest at heart are not in charge. They haven't been since the February 2011.

[Roversider]

Tony Mowbray's preference for a particular style is the downfall at the moment.  He repeatedly follows his high intensity, possession, passing structure despite the lack of quality, either in the team or the pitch (to be honest the pitch at Barnsley was just as bad) to effectively do that.  Add that to the lack of physicality in the team in the midfield or attack and other managers clearly targeting that predictable approach and his inability to read the signs.  The team is being burnt out by the number of games and the effort needed to follow his game plan.  I am unsurprised by the collection of injuries, let's face it he is choosing to play players like Dack and Travis who are not at the races after coming back from serious injuries.

The game against Watford summed it all up to me, he knew he had to play two green as grass young centre backs but chose not to change shape to add in a more defensive midfield.  He was determined to play Dack come what may and has happily loaned out what few young defenders we have in the academy.  That means the bench has no options to pull either CB off if injured or having a stinker.

He then compounds it (as usual) by hurling attackers on as subs, the squad is lopsided through injuries, yes adding Branthwaite and Harwood-Bellis looked logical but surely he knew the risks when he added Ayala who has been out of action for months at 'Boro?

He lacks the guile or the intelligence to adapt his chosen style to the players he has at his disposal.  Most managers on a run as terrible as we are in would plan to secure the structure of the team and to minimise the exposure of kids in the team.

Watford are a very good side, I'd suggest one of my favourites for promotion, surely Mowbray needed to be more adept at setting the team up for the challenge they faced?

Games come thick and fast and we are now looking down the table at the teams below us.  Barnsley are flying (helped by our gifts to them) and on a pitch equally as bad as Ewood.

Branthwaite has proved to be a timebomb, poor judgement (dodged a deserved red card) and last night did what I hate, screwed up badly and then let his head drop, he dragged Harwood Bellis down at the same time.

How angry am I, I don't know really, just sad.  Mowbray has done wonders in rebuilding our love of the team, built some bridges between the fans and India (unfortunately we need the Venkys money at the moment and they are the paymasters) and got us out of League 1 with the addition of some favourites like Dack and Armstrong.  However is stubborn clinging to a particular way of playing is continuing to damage the team.

Branthwaite cost Everton £750,000 from Carlisle, they can afford to make bad decisions at that price tag, we can't.

Rant over - for now ........

 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I gave him the relegation season because he came in late and we very nearly escaped. In the promotion season the numbers of games we dominated for more than 30 minutes you could count on the fingers of one hand. OK we had the players who could turn a match at that level but lots of the time our play was turgid and incoherent. Our shape was poor, strikers like Andreason and Samuel  playing out wide, wingers like Chapman on the bench at the same time. I came to the conclusion that Mowbray wasn't the man for the job. Smallwood and Evans both playing as defensive midfield players against really weak teams etc etc. Ridiculous stuff like that.  Then when he said " I'll give the lads who got us up preference before any new signings " I thought - " Time we got somebody in who knows what he's doing ! "

I'd wager that clubs with a more hands on style of aggressive directorship like Brentford would have fired him then also. But Brentford wouldn't have appointed him i the first place

I know it's easy to nit pick now with hindsight but there were elements of his first games in charge that gave concern and still ring true.

I remember the Barnsley game at home one of his first in charge and i came away from that lame effort knowing we were doomed.  Pretty much confirmed everything i feared about the appointment, it wouldn't be enough.  

Some of the stuff in that very game goes on exactly the same today he's just got better players. The confusing systems and over egging it is just the same. As was this need to try and 'play' instead of getting a solid formation and in the faces to fight bite and kick to where you needed to be.  That day nearly everything we did was tried through Mahonney and i recall he moved him around 3 different positions. He was bright early on but his effectiveness just disappeared when he ended up out of position.

TM does exactly the same with Elliot now and often has with Dack.  Also that day we were undone by horrendous howlers at the back although in no way was he responsible for Wes Brown being so shit.

I know the appointment of Coyle virtually sealed relegation but there elements missing that day that still are now. Difference is they really shouldn't be.

[rog of the rovers]

Next 10 games look daunting

 

Home - Coventry (20th)

Away - Reading (5th)

Away - Millwall (11th)

Home - Swansea (4th)

Home - Brentford (2nd)

Home - Bristol City (12th)

Away - Norwich (1st)

Away - Wycombe (24th)

Home - Bournemouth (7th)

Away - Cardiff (6th)

 

Average league position of those 10 teams - 9th (9.2)

 

Dare I say it may come down to a nervy last 5 games?

 

Home - Derby (18th)

Away - Sheffield Wed (23rd)

Home - Huddersfield (19th)

Away - Rotherham (22nd)

Home - Birmingham (21st)

 

Average league position of the last 5 teams - 21st (20.6)

[Mattyblue]

Just think of the ‘Big x’ ticket bundles Waggott could flog for these upcoming relegation battles... beats mid table, doesn’t it!

Edited February 25, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Ghost7]

Preston, QPR, Barnsley and Forest were hugely important games. You could see that when looking ahead at the fixtures.

I truly believe every other club in the league if they were in our position would have fired their manager for losing all of those.

[Leonard Venkhater]

17 minutes ago, rog of the rovers said:

Next 10 games look daunting

 

Home - Coventry (20th)

Away - Reading (5th)

Away - Millwall (11th)

Home - Swansea (4th)

Home - Brentford (2nd)

Home - Bristol City (12th)

Away - Norwich (1st)

Away - Wycombe (24th)

Home - Bournemouth (7th)

Away - Cardiff (6th)

 

Average league position of those 10 teams - 9th (9.2)

 

Dare I say it may come down to a nervy last 5 games?

 

Home - Derby (18th)

Away - Sheffield Wed (23rd)

Home - Huddersfield (19th)

Away - Rotherham (22nd)

Home - Birmingham (21st)

 

Average league position of the last 5 teams - 21st (20.6)

Horribly reminiscent of Blackpool's unlikely fall way back in '77-78.

It was like watching someone fall from a great height. In February, they beat Rovers 5- 2 and then won only one more game the rest of the season....

[Blue blood]

27 minutes ago, rog of the rovers said:

Next 10 games look daunting

 

Home - Coventry (20th)

Away - Reading (5th)

Away - Millwall (11th)

Home - Swansea (4th)

Home - Brentford (2nd)

Home - Bristol City (12th)

Away - Norwich (1st)

Away - Wycombe (24th)

Home - Bournemouth (7th)

Away - Cardiff (6th)

 

Average league position of those 10 teams - 9th (9.2)

 

Dare I say it may come down to a nervy last 5 games?

 

Home - Derby (18th)

Away - Sheffield Wed (23rd)

Home - Huddersfield (19th)

Away - Rotherham (22nd)

Home - Birmingham (21st)

 

Average league position of the last 5 teams - 21st (20.6)

Oh aye, teams fighting for their lives in the last few games is just what we need! What you want for the final few games is teams already doomed or mid table nothing to play for on the beach. 

That sounds a bit harsh as I agree with your point! Just that I don't think I want all these relegation scrappers to be our last few games as this team has zero fight in it. 

Think the next three games are key. All winnable, Reading having a wobble, Coventry aren't great and Millwall average. 4 points from that  I think will take us a lot closer to safety and worrying about next season instead. 

Personally I think we will get about 4 points from those games before losing the next 4 - which all look very daunting - to make for an interesting finish.

That said I think 3 wins plus our 10 point buffer at the moment will be more than enough to keep us up. Wins Vs Coventry, Wycombe and Rotherham - all immensely doable - will mean the bottom three need to win 6 or 7 of the final 15 games to catch us. That means they need to win roughly half their games which I cannot see them doing. Of course the flip side is we aren't winning at the moment. But we do have the quality to and we have picked up some wins whilst playing badly so I don't think 3 wins in 15 is an overly optimistic target even accounting for TM being a clown. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Blue blood

[Richard Oakley]

@BlueBloodThe 5 we've just lost were all winnable. You made the point that the teams below us are all scrapping for points and that we've no fight in us. That equals relegation.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

54 minutes ago, rog of the rovers said:

Next 10 games look daunting

 

Home - Coventry (20th)

Away - Reading (5th)

Away - Millwall (11th)

Home - Swansea (4th)

Home - Brentford (2nd)

Home - Bristol City (12th)

Away - Norwich (1st)

Away - Wycombe (24th)

Home - Bournemouth (7th)

Away - Cardiff (6

Christ almighty,our situation is frightening atm.

[tomphil]

Dead rubbers have put points on the board in the past that perhaps skewed what had gone before then got dressed as marginal progress.  Some of our players suddenly seem to get a spring in their step when the beach is in sight.  Might be a few playing for contracts as well but as the end gets nearer and there's zero pressure for anything other than upper midtable even the gloomy manager seems to get a new lease of life.

We've also beaten a few teams higher up in the run ins to be fair but the pressure is all on them and it sometimes shows.  

You still have to go out and beat what's in front of you of course but it's annoying how the 'want it more' mentality disappears here every mid season.

[Hasta]

In all honesty I think there is enough in us to pick up wins against the grain here and there and end up safe. If we do score first we will always be dangerous on the break to teams coming at us. There is a lot of chaff in this league and I think we will be OK.

However as much as anyone says 'we won't go down', 100/1 is a ridiculously big price !

 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Hasta

[Bbrovers2288]

13 minutes ago, Hasta said:

In all honesty I think there is enough in us to pick up wins against the grain here and there and end up safe. If we do score first we will always be dangerous on the break to team coming at us. There is a lot of chaff in this league and I think we will be OK.

However as much as anyone says 'we won't go down', 100/1 is a ridiculously big price !

 

Put it on in the hope that it would ease relegation somewhat if I were picking up 500 quid for the heartache. One bet I hope that comfortably loses however 

[Hasta]

4 minutes ago, Bbrovers2288 said:

Put it on in the hope that it would ease relegation somewhat if I were picking up 500 quid for the heartache. 

I know from experience it doesn't  😒

[Blue blood]

32 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

@BlueBloodThe 5 we've just lost were all winnable. You made the point that the teams below us are all scrapping for points and that we've no fight in us. That equals relegation.

Yeah it's a fair point, the last 5 were winnable. 

The lack of fight is a worry and I do think that will cause us trouble in games Vs the bottom. And it is something you see in relegation sides so I totally get and share your concern.

But the flip side is we do have quality and there is a lot of dross in this division. We have got points in games we have played badly in. So I don't think three wins is an unreasonable or even unlikely in 15 games, even with the handicap that we have.