Millwall v rovers

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Just makes no sense to me, and doesnt sit right that there is so much criticism of such a prolific scorer who didnt even play today.

Over the course of this season, would you think that we would have collected more or less points had Armstrong not played a minute? Surely the former if we benefit from his absence. Same question to you @Bigdoggsteel And do you think that the 3 would have made up for his 19 goal output?

And what did you feel of the individual performances of the front 3 today? I thought Dolan was the pick, mainly through his raw enthusiasm really, his end product wasnt really of much note and he tricked himself a couple of times but he was a pain in the arse. Gallagher worked hard but often held onto the ball too long, and Brereton was very quiet. 

You could put Armstrong in any of the 3 positions, he has the pace to play that, and he would have benefitted from Dack being much closer to the striker which hasnt been the case in recent weeks, take Tuesday night when Rothwell was invisible, Evans gets a nosebleed across the half way line and Armstrong was on his own in a different postcode. Armstrong in recent weeks has been far less selfish but has shown sides to his game that I didnt think were there, holding the ball up at times and bringing others into play, and his movement (often ignored) is intelligent. 

The thing separating the 3 today with Armstrong is the goal output and that is the most important part of a forward. If Armstrong is the hindrance many are making out, and he is attracting suitors, think of the money we can make on Gallagher, Brereton and Dolan!

The 3 of them wouldn't have had to make up for his 19 goal tally. We could have won more games by scoring less goals. A lot of tight games where Armstrong was extremely greedy. At the start,he scored a good few in games we hammered the opposition. Ultimately a 1-0 would do the same job. 

Over a full season the 3 of them probably could have gotten 19 though. Dack got 18 by himself last season. Gallagher scored 12 in a poor team playing centre forward. Dolan has 3 this season and he has barely played.

As for suiters, well let's just see. As you say yourself when it suits, we don't know if there have been any offers, it doesn't sound like there has. His link up play is very poor. When you talk about him not being greedy recently and showing "sides of his game that you didn't think were there", I do wonder if you are seeing things you want to see. 

As a lone front man, he doesn't do enough for a team like us with his all round play. If he's not scoring,he is a problem. Then you break down the goals he scored, which were penos, how many in games early on when we steam rolled teams? 5 in 2 games against Wycombe and Coventry. 

He needs a partner, or to be moved to the left. I'm not against keeping him. I would be amazed if we get £25 million for him. I would bite their hand off. 

Edited March 6, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[Wood26]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The 3 of them wouldn't have had to make up for his 19 goal tally. We could have won more games by scoring less goals. A lot of tight games where Armstrong was extremely greedy. At the start,he scored a good few in games we hammered the opposition. Ultimately a 1-0 would do the same job. 

Over a full season the 3 of them probably could have gotten 19 though. Dack got 18 by himself last season. Gallagher scored 12 in a poor team playing centre forward. 

As for suiters, well let's just see. As you say yourself when it suits, we don't know if there have been any offers, it doesn't sound like there has. His link up play is very poor. When you talk about him not being greedy recently and showing "sides of his game that you didn't think we're there", I do wonder if you are seeing things you want to see. 

As a lone front man, he doesn't do enough for a team like us with his all round play. If he's not scoring,he is a problem. Then you break down the goals he scored, which were penos, how many in games early on when we steam rolled teams? 5 in 2 games against Wycombe and Coventry. 

He needs a partner, or to be moved to the left. I'm not against keeping him. I would be amazed if we get £25 million for him. I would bite their hand off. 

Such a harsh judgment of Armstrong. Yes he scored goals when we was steam rolling teams, how is that a negative? Maybe we steam rolled those teams because he was playing?

Stats don’t lie, he shoots a lot! I think 50 more then anyone else in league, and yes he’s not best finisher, but he’s a very good player for us.

Most recent I can think of is QPR he laid it on a plate for Elliott who skied it from 6 yards.

Dolan was superb today, he’s not better then Armstrong.

[bluebruce]

Armstrong does squander shots instead of passing at times. But of those, about half are ones that no other player in the team would carve out for themselves as consistently in the first place.

Yes he needs to get smarter with the ball and stop trying to constantly score worldies (primarily cos it isn't working this season, with zero goals from outside the box I believe, whereas second half of last season he was rattling those in with impunity). But he is not the problem, nor even close to it.

[yoda's brother]

"I don't generally give special mentions to players but I think Tyrhys Dolan deserved one today. He was like a whirlwind.

"I played centre-half and to think that kid would be chasing you down every time you had a touch - he was right in your face. It was an amazing performance from such a young guy."

BBC Sport Mowbray's comment

Edited March 6, 2021 by yoda's brother

[roversfan99]

 

4 minutes ago, Wood26 said:

Such a harsh judgment of Armstrong. Yes he scored goals when we was steam rolling teams, how is that a negative? Maybe we steam rolled those teams because he was playing?

Stats don’t lie, he shoots a lot! I think 50 more then anyone else in league, and yes he’s not best finisher, but he’s a very good player for us.

Most recent I can think of is QPR he laid it on a plate for Elliott who skied it from 6 yards.

Dolan was superb today, he’s not better then Armstrong.

100%. Also the pass in the build up to the red card v Preston and the lay off for the goal at Boro off the top of my head. Also hes put in a few brilliant passes across the face of goal that havent been attacked and has got players sent off.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

51 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Was the win that convincing? Millwall hit the post, Smith missed a simple header and there were several goalmouth  scrambles where we could have conceded. 

There was no pressure on the cross that Smith headed wide. Whoever was playing right back just waved a foot at it, that's not good enough. That left our centre halves at a disadvantage to Smith. I'd have backed him to put the header away.

[Mike E]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

There was no pressure on the cross that Smith headed wide. Whoever was playing right back just waved a foot at it, that's not good enough. That left our centre halves at a disadvantage to Smith. I'd have backed him to put the header away.

You like giving money to your mum, don't you? 😉

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

42 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

By 'individualist' you mean a hugely limited player, right?

The free role he's been granted by Mowbray has led to a lot of goals, but that's the only way he's contributing to the team. He was shown up today by an 18 year old winger who was thrown upfront - Dolan linked up more play in 90 minutes than Armstrong has all season.

I wouldn't say limited, he's just a bit one dimensional at the moment.

[Stuart]

Some positives from today:

- We actually looked like a team

- The players had a point to prove and did so (that there is life after Arma - and goals)

- Dolan is full of confidence and suits a free role

- The win and 3 very timely points

- JRC being back

- Dack looking far happier (penalty incident aside)

- Gally looking far happier and getting the clichéd one off the backside (well, chest)

- Today proves we have the players but not the manager

Let’s try to settle a side now and get some points on the board to get some clear daylight away from relegation

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, WacoRover said:

Honest question by a Texan who is still trying to figure out the English game...

So, today was Mowbray’s plan B - or just a madcap attempt by him to throw 11 on the pitch to find something-anything- that works? I’ve watched American tackleball 50 years, and finding effective substitutes is nothing new. You always have to get backups ready, and the next generation of players... but, Rovers are fairly young, other than Johnson & one or two others. Tonys efforts at putting forwards and wingers in proper position seems to be good-intentioned buffoonery, at best.

Basically, It’s taken him 2 1/2 months since our last strong performance to put an effective 11 on the pitch. So, was today skill and footballing acumen on TM’s part, or luck?  

You made a strange choice if you're trying to understand football. Any team that Mowbray organises is not going to be much of an example to go by.

[Tom]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Just makes no sense to me, and doesnt sit right that there is so much criticism of such a prolific scorer who didnt even play today.

Over the course of this season, would you think that we would have collected more or less points had Armstrong not played a minute? Surely the former if we benefit from his absence. Same question to you @Bigdoggsteel And do you think that the 3 would have made up for his 19 goal output?

And what did you feel of the individual performances of the front 3 today? I thought Dolan was the pick, mainly through his raw enthusiasm really, his end product wasnt really of much note and he tricked himself a couple of times but he was a pain in the arse. Gallagher worked hard but often held onto the ball too long, and Brereton was very quiet. 

You could put Armstrong in any of the 3 positions, he has the pace to play that, and he would have benefitted from Dack being much closer to the striker which hasnt been the case in recent weeks, take Tuesday night when Rothwell was invisible, Evans gets a nosebleed across the half way line and Armstrong was on his own in a different postcode. Armstrong in recent weeks has been far less selfish but has shown sides to his game that I didnt think were there, holding the ball up at times and bringing others into play, and his movement (often ignored) is intelligent. 

The thing separating the 3 today with Armstrong is the goal output and that is the most important part of a forward. If Armstrong is the hindrance many are making out, and he is attracting suitors, think of the money we can make on Gallagher, Brereton and Dolan!

I’d have Armstrong in the team but today forced Mowbray to try something else, it forced his hand to throw Dolan in and play Dack in behind.

Why he’s been resistant to before I’m not sure.

If we’d not had Armstrong I think we’d have less points but in this recent run I’m not sure if other options would have suited Dack and us better 

Mowbray has a goalscorer in Arma and one of the leagues brightest individual players in Dack, he has to find a way to get them firing together, and for me id like Dolan to be in the mix as well 

[Wood26]

6 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Some positives from today:

- We actually looked like a team

- The players had a point to prove and did so (that there is life after Arma - and goals)

- Dolan is full of confidence and suits a free role

- The win and 3 very timely points

- JRC being back

- Dack looking far happier (penalty incident aside)

- Gally looking far happier and getting the clichéd one off the backside (well, chest)

- Today proves we have the players but not the manager

Let’s try to settle a side now and get some points on the board to get some clear daylight away from relegation

 

I was loving your post until the “proves we got players not the manager”.

He played 2 strikers on the wing and a winger down middle, and it worked wonders! 

As I said earlier, Gallagher played out his skin. He doesn’t always do that, yet his position was the same. Our players need to up it, they can do it when they are on their game as today showed.

Edited March 6, 2021 by Wood26

[tomphil]

Only an element of modern day Rovers lurking on social media can turn one win after losing 6 out of 7 into a pissing contest in favour of a manager.

He's got better PR on the go than Kean i'll give him that.

[Wood26]

3 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Only an element of modern day Rovers lurking on social media can turn one win after losing 6 out of 7 into a pissing contest in favour of a manager.

He's got better PR on the go than Kean i'll give him that.

No what is weird is when your team wins and fellow “fans” rush on social media to tell you that opposition was poor, goals were a fluke, we are still rubbish, our top scorer should never start again.

[tomphil]

1 minute ago, Wood26 said:

No what is weird is when your team wins and fellow “fans” rush on social media to tell you that opposition was poor, goals were a fluke, we are still rubbish, our top scorer should never start again.

The tombola worked for the first time in about 8 games i think is the general feeling.

We did look better without Armstrong today there's an element of the old Rhodes argument there maybe. Although we've looked better without Gallagher in the side at times as well.

Take all the bickering away and everyone should agree the manager rarely sets a side out with any balance. Players and a set up that actually compliment each other, when he does we tend to get a good result. It still took poor opposition today but that accounts for half the sides in the division.

It is as plain and simple as that really.

[booth]

1 hour ago, yoda's brother said:

"I don't generally give special mentions to players but I think Tyrhys Dolan deserved one today. He was like a whirlwind.

"I played centre-half and to think that kid would be chasing you down every time you had a touch - he was right in your face. It was an amazing performance from such a young guy."

BBC Sport Mowbray's comment

On the bench next match then 😄

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 hours ago, Wood26 said:

Such a harsh judgment of Armstrong. Yes he scored goals when we was steam rolling teams, how is that a negative? Maybe we steam rolled those teams because he was playing?

Stats don’t lie, he shoots a lot! I think 50 more then anyone else in league, and yes he’s not best finisher, but he’s a very good player for us.

Most recent I can think of is QPR he laid it on a plate for Elliott who skied it from 6 yards.

Dolan was superb today, he’s not better then Armstrong.

Never said it was a negative. Re-read my post. 

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, Wood26 said:

I was loving your post until the “proves we got players not the manager”.

He played 2 strikers on the wing and a winger down middle, and it worked wonders! 

As I said earlier, Gallagher played out his skin. He doesn’t always do that, yet his position was the same. Our players need to up it, they can do it when they are on their game as today showed.

I don’t post for the love and I certainly don’t list for love from people who still think Mowbray is good for this club.

Yesterday was enjoyable to watch but it changes nothing. In fact, it proves even more that he is holding back these players and the club.

[JacknOry]

Couldn't bring myself to watch and we win - TM is trolling me now.

Heard Dolan was superb - up FRONT? Is this correct? Only in Mowbray land would anyone even consider putting him up there when we have 12 million worth of strikers available. 

On 05/03/2021 at 17:48, JacknOry said:

If you are not going to walk TM, why not surprise an opposition team for a change by doing something different?

 

 

At least this is confirmation that TM reads this board - just was not quite what I was expecting.

 

[benhben]

very important win as it puts some distance to what I was genuinely starting to worry about...a relegation scrap. Its clear that at least during this season that Mowbray is going nowhere even had this been another loss. Best we can hope for is some decent results and getting some of our better players back In form. Hopefully Mowbray and Wag will be off in the summer. 

Nice to see Dolan start. Many have been asking for that. Makes you think why he was dropped for so long. Did he really play CF and Gallagher stayed out wide? At least it worked yesterday. 

[arbitro]

I enjoyed our performance which was reminiscent of ur early season matches with an energy, intensity and high press which has been missing for months. And the catalyst for me was Dolan. The example he set was inspirational in my view, particularly in a position I didn't think he would excel in.

However from a manager perspective it doesn't change my view in any way. In fact in a strange way it strengthens my view as for a few months we have been inept and timid and that has be laid at Mowbrays door for me.

[Ossydave]

Well well well eh. I did not expect that. Like many I saw that team and thought wtf, I actually thought it was a Mowbray V sign to the fans, basically saying I'll do what I damn well want I'm the boss.

I didn't watch it as it was my daughters birthday but curiosity got the better of me and was pleasantly very surprised.

Its always been obvious as I alluded to pre match that Dack and Armo together doesn't work and yesterday suggests it's still the case.

Bring on the divers of Swansea I guess...

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Though we deserved the win - we did get the rub of the green at key times (something that has been missing of late).

Things I took from game -

Dolan - overall OK match, but it his movement off the ball that makes so much difference to the team.

Buckley - did the hard graft better than I thought he could, but passing was wayward at times. For the first time I can actually see a player that may be able to hold down a midfield spot.

Dack - may have scored, but still off the pace (though improved on recent displays).

JRC - created a dilemma on who to play right back. Though personally would still have Nyambe - we do look better on the ball with JRC.

Was noticeable that we seemed to revert to early season running off the ball - and getting more players in the box. Just maybe - Armstrong's greed with the ball is having a detrimental effect on team pattern (ie why bother running into box when you know Armstrong will just shoot anyway). Though there was times when Armstrong pace on the break was missed.

Still think we need a change in manager - but a win was very welcome - and credit to him for getting it right (of sorts)

[RevidgeBlue]

10 hours ago, yoda's brother said:

"I don't generally give special mentions to players but I think Tyrhys Dolan deserved one today. He was like a whirlwind.

"I played centre-half and to think that kid would be chasing you down every time you had a touch - he was right in your face. It was an amazing performance from such a young guy."

BBC Sport Mowbray's comment

"Such a young guy" who's actually nearly 18 months older than the lad from Liverpool who has been a fixture in the starting line up all season (and who has also done well until recently).

Why does he think kids from Premier League teams are ready to be chucked straight into the starting line up but our own youngsters are babies in nappies that can't be trusted at the same age and are usually still looking to prove themselves by the time they're 21 or 22?

 

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

Highlight was easily Trybull. When substituted, he went off on the far side and proceeded to walk around the perimeter of the pitch to the dug outs, throwing all the available spare footballs into the stand. World class.