Summer transfer window 2021.

[chaddyrovers]

59 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Don't think we did unless you can provide a source to the contrary.

I will have a look and speak to a friend or 2. 

[RevidgeBlue]

35 minutes ago, tomphil said:

God only knows what spade loads of shite they get fed by those doing very nicely out of it in Blackburn. Then there's the invisible middleman on his multi continent doddle of a job.

Why would any of these ever wan't their gravy train drying up ?

Yup, and they wouldn't.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Do you what the wage budget is for this season and surely Rovers would have wage cap in place? 

Mowbray doesn't want to give Graham a new deal last season like Graham said on the Rovers Chat podcast with himself. Not listened to it?

Smallwood and Samuel were always going JH. More theories from yourself

Thats the problem tho. You signed players that will fit into your formation and style of play. Not just sign players that don't fit into your tactical approach like we seen with Mowbray signing Gallagher, Johnson, Ayala that don't fit into his possession based footballing style. 

But are any of them what we need in terms of signings? 

I can understand that you want Rovers to make signings asap but so far I've only seen 2 players who have move clubs or re sign at the current club that I would have wanted to bring Rovers. Is there any signings players made so for any championship club you would have wanted at Rovers?

Bennett was always leave this summer and move closer to home based like I said before. Why keep injury prone players like Evans and Holtby? Plus all 3 would have too limited Mowbray transfer market signings as the current squad has 19 players that meet the age limit and criteria to be qualify as senior player in the 25 players squad rules.  

Carter is 21 years now and will be 22 years old in December so surely its either use him as part of the first team squad or not and sell him. He was excellent for Burton and played a key part why they stayed up like they did. 

Signings or no signings, I wouldn't be playing anything like the tactics that Mowbray seemingly wants to play next season regardless. Trying to get a team that is not particularly good technically to dominate possession leads to slow, laboured football creating very little in the way of clear cut chances, and that is before you consider the nonsensical fads he creates such as wide strikers and false 9's. We need to change tactics and indeed managers.

My comments were not about the individuals who I mentioned, but we didn't refrain from signing them or indeed anyone because we have better players lined up. Its not some insatiable lust for transfer news, but we are one of the minority who haven't signed anyone because of our incompetent and negligent ownership and management causing an embargo. Many of the players that have signed for various teams I can't profess to seeing on a regular basis, although Vrancic and Matty James would both have provided experienced upgrades as free agents to our powder puff midfield.

31 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's pretty telling that Armstrong won't sign a new deal. He has played his best football and delivered the most goals under Mowbray, first in League 1 and now the Championship. Yet, he doesn't see this as the place to stay. I wonder what his main motivation is, money or success?

To be fair, both tend to be linked pretty strongly. And neither is unfortunately in evidence where he is at the moment.

24 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Darragh Lenihan hadn't, David Raya hadn't, Ryan Nyambe hadn't. Top talent is in reference to the Championship, I'm not calling him Leo Messi of course.

Would you keep Butterworth at the club this season or allow him out on loan, considering that he has never started a proper game of football?

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Signings or no signings, I wouldn't be playing anything like the tactics that Mowbray seemingly wants to play next season regardless. Trying to get a team that is not particularly good technically to dominate possession leads to slow, laboured football creating very little in the way of clear cut chances, and that is before you consider the nonsensical fads he creates such as wide strikers and false 9's. We need to change tactics and indeed managers.

I can understand that you would change tactics and why. But whatever your formations and style of players your squad and signings must fit into that. Thats where I think some of Mowbray's signings haven't fitted this. 

I don't want to over Mowbray again please. We both know each opinions on it. Can we agree on this?

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

My comments were not about the individuals who I mentioned, but we didn't refrain from signing them or indeed anyone because we have better players lined up. Its not some insatiable lust for transfer news, but we are one of the minority who haven't signed anyone because of our incompetent and negligent ownership and management causing an embargo. Many of the players that have signed for various teams I can't profess to seeing on a regular basis, although Vrancic and Matty James would both have provided experienced upgrades as free agents to our powder puff midfield.

I never thought it was your lust for transfer news after knowing you for so long on here and twitter. 

I would have like Ryan Woods and Sonny Bradley signing here. Both experience players

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Would you keep Butterworth at the club this season or allow him out on loan, considering that he has never started a proper game of football?

I think we should. Could be the ideal number 10 player we need and gives Rothwell/Buckley competition for that role. 

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Do you what the wage budget is for this season and surely Rovers would have wage cap in place? 

Mowbray doesn't want to give Graham a new deal last season like Graham said on the Rovers Chat podcast with himself. Not listened to it?

Smallwood and Samuel were always going JH. More theories from yourself

Thats the problem tho. You signed players that will fit into your formation and style of play. Not just sign players that don't fit into your tactical approach like we seen with Mowbray signing Gallagher, Johnson, Ayala that don't fit into his possession based footballing style. 

But are any of them what we need in terms of signings? 

I can understand that you want Rovers to make signings asap but so far I've only seen 2 players who have move clubs or re sign at the current club that I would have wanted to bring Rovers. Is there any signings players made so for any championship club you would have wanted at Rovers?

Bennett was always leave this summer and move closer to home based like I said before. Why keep injury prone players like Evans and Holtby? Plus all 3 would have too limited Mowbray transfer market signings as the current squad has 19 players that meet the age limit and criteria to be qualify as senior player in the 25 players squad rules.  

Carter is 21 years now and will be 22 years old in December so surely its either use him as part of the first team squad or not and sell him. He was excellent for Burton and played a key part why they stayed up like they did. 

I think we are at cross purposes here.

No I don't know what the wage budget is. I do know that in allowing senior players like Evans, Bennett, Mulgrew, Williams, Bell, Downing and Holtby all to leave that we will have cut the wage bill by a significant amount. 

The point I was making was that I'm fairly sure no other club will have achieved such a drastic cut in wages in one swoop. Surely having done so there would be scope to increase Armstrong's pay rather than believe this cock and bull story that they were considering selling Rothwell to generate the funds to pay Armstrong more.

Very noble having this wage cap. Unfortunately if the direct result of it is that we continue to lose prized assets on the cheap then rather than be a good thing at managing costs it actually costs us money. If the requirement to keep Armstrong is to increase or break the cap by a few grand a week but in doing so command £20 million for him rather than £8 million then it is worth doing. Anyone with any sense knows this.

I'm not sure what you are going on about with Graham, Samuel and Smallwood. My initial point was that last summer Mowbray was allowed to give them each extra month contract extensions, along with Leutwiler and Downing. This was in the middle of a pandemic and Mowbray's reason was that he wanted them all to finish the season together after the re-start. Bless. Still, an extra 4 weeks a piece for those 5 players probably cost the club another couple of hundred grand. 

The fact that those players were barely used and then weren't retained after the end of the season makes it all the more baffling and pointless.

Mowbray doesn't have a formation or style of play and certainly doesn't recruit players to fit in with one.

I've already covered the Evans and Holtby departures - I agree that neither played enough to really justify new deals - but they then need replacing. You are making a hell of a lot of assumptions about the young players and their abilities.

[Ghost7]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Didn't we offer him a new contract last summer and been in talks for 12 months but no new deal sign yet?

The point is we failed to get our best player tied down to a long term contract and the cost of that is going to be significantly more than an extra 5 - 10k a week. We're a badly run business.

[islander200]

32 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I think we are at cross purposes here.

No I don't know what the wage budget is. I do know that in allowing senior players like Evans, Bennett, Mulgrew, Williams, Bell, Downing and Holtby all to leave that we will have cut the wage bill by a significant amount. 

The point I was making was that I'm fairly sure no other club will have achieved such a drastic cut in wages in one swoop. Surely having done so there would be scope to increase Armstrong's pay rather than believe this cock and bull story that they were considering selling Rothwell to generate the funds to pay Armstrong more.

Very noble having this wage cap. Unfortunately if the direct result of it is that we continue to lose prized assets on the cheap then rather than be a good thing at managing costs it actually costs us money. If the requirement to keep Armstrong is to increase or break the cap by a few grand a week but in doing so command £20 million for him rather than £8 million then it is worth doing. Anyone with any sense knows this.

I'm not sure what you are going on about with Graham, Samuel and Smallwood. My initial point was that last summer Mowbray was allowed to give them each extra month contract extensions, along with Leutwiler and Downing. This was in the middle of a pandemic and Mowbray's reason was that he wanted them all to finish the season together after the re-start. Bless. Still, an extra 4 weeks a piece for those 5 players probably cost the club another couple of hundred grand. 

The fact that those players were barely used and then weren't retained after the end of the season makes it all the more baffling and pointless.

Mowbray doesn't have a formation or style of play and certainly doesn't recruit players to fit in with one.

I've already covered the Evans and Holtby departures - I agree that neither played enough to really justify new deals - but they then need replacing. You are making a hell of a lot of assumptions about the young players and their abilities.

The cock and bull story about Rothwell came from Nixon..not the club.

You have absolutely no idea how much the club have offered Armstrong(well sorry you don't believe there is any offer). Armstrong will be able to get 30k upward  a week if he moves.If he leaves on a free then he will get a nice juicy signing on fee.

You are correct in what you say after letting all those players depart then we should have the scope to offer Armstrong a very good deal but the problem with that Is then the other players nearing the end of their deals will want more to renew also.You will have the likes of Lenihen wanting 20+ a week and he isn't worth it.

Also do you not want all those players that have left replacing like you keep saying so where is that money coming from?

We also have to be wary with ffp we do not want the club sanctioned again.Our relegation to league one started with the embargo under Bowyer and left us with a truly terrible squad when Coyle was in charge.

I know In the past you have downplayed ffp and pointed at other teams working around it through clever accounting.Well it doesn't look so clever now ,Sheff Wednesday just been relegated, Derby very very lucky not to have been and both clubs overspent massively for what exactly?Both didn't get promoted due to it.

The Armstrong new deal should have happened 12-18 months ago when he first starting showing signs of kicking on.But we can't just give him what he wants to keep him,the club has to cut its cloth accordingly and we should be working toward getting as much as a transfer fee as we possibly can now 

[chaddyrovers]

47 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The point I was making was that I'm fairly sure no other club will have achieved such a drastic cut in wages in one swoop. Surely having done so there would be scope to increase Armstrong's pay rather than believe this cock and bull story that they were considering selling Rothwell to generate the funds to pay Armstrong more.

Very noble having this wage cap. Unfortunately if the direct result of it is that we continue to lose prized assets on the cheap then rather than be a good thing at managing costs it actually costs us money. If the requirement to keep Armstrong is to increase or break the cap by a few grand a week but in doing so command £20 million for him rather than £8 million then it is worth doing. Anyone with any sense knows this.

Yes the wage bill has dropped but I wonder the owners have cut the budget resulting in a small wage bill this season for the club. 

Don't think the problem is money with Armstrong but he wants a crack at Premier League football. 

49 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I've already covered the Evans and Holtby departures - I agree that neither played enough to really justify new deals - but they then need replacing. You are making a hell of a lot of assumptions about the young players and their abilities.

I don't see why either one of them need replacing considering they were injury prone and we have also 5 players for the centre midfielders so only need one more midfielder who would be defensive midfielder for the signing. 

 

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

The cock and bull story about Rothwell came from Nixon..not the club.

You have absolutely no idea how much the club have offered Armstrong(well sorry you don't believe there is any offer). Armstrong will be able to get 30k upward  a week if he moves.If he leaves on a free then he will get a nice juicy signing on fee.

You are correct in what you say after letting all those players depart then we should have the scope to offer Armstrong a very good deal but the problem with that Is then the other players nearing the end of their deals will want more to renew also.You will have the likes of Lenihen wanting 20+ a week and he isn't worth it.

Also do you not want all those players that have left replacing like you keep saying so where is that money coming from?

We also have to be wary with ffp we do not want the club sanctioned again.Our relegation to league one started with the embargo under Bowyer and left us with a truly terrible squad when Coyle was in charge.

I know In the past you have downplayed ffp and pointed at other teams working around it through clever accounting.Well it doesn't look so clever now ,Sheff Wednesday just been relegated, Derby very very lucky not to have been and both clubs overspent massively for what exactly?Both didn't get promoted due to it.

The Armstrong new deal should have happened 12-18 months ago when he first starting showing signs of kicking on.But we can't just give him what he wants to keep him,the club has to cut its cloth accordingly and we should be working toward getting as much as a transfer fee as we possibly can now 

I don't really agree with that.

I'd say there is quite a differential between a striker who's just scored 29 goals and Lenihan who hasn't really improved, instead some might say he's regressed.

I think you have to judge each player on their merits and I certainly wouldn't be chucking the kitchen sink at Lenihan in terms of wages. Long term I'd sooner Nyambe stayed at the Club than him if you had to choose between one or the other.

[islander200]

32 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I don't really agree with that.

I'd say there is quite a differential between a striker who's just scored 29 goals and Lenihan who hasn't really improved, instead some might say he's regressed.

I think you have to judge each player on their merits and I certainly wouldn't be chucking the kitchen sink at Lenihan in terms of wages. Long term I'd sooner Nyambe stayed at the Club than him if you had to choose between one or the other.

I'm not comparing Armstrong and Lenihen in terms of ability what I'm saying Is if the club give Armstrong a new deal on significantly higher than our current highest earner then any player we are looking to tie down will be wanting more.I used Lenihen as the example  as he is the captain .

I'm not sure what Lenihen is on now but say it's 15 grand a week, we give Armstrong 25-30 a week as club captain Lenihen and his agent will be saying to the club we want 20 to renew as will all the other senior players when it comes to negotiations over new contract.

Edited July 13, 2021 by islander200

[JHRover]

21 minutes ago, islander200 said:

The cock and bull story about Rothwell came from Nixon..not the club.

You have absolutely no idea how much the club have offered Armstrong(well sorry you don't believe there is any offer). Armstrong will be able to get 30k upward  a week if he moves.If he leaves on a free then he will get a nice juicy signing on fee.

You are correct in what you say after letting all those players depart then we should have the scope to offer Armstrong a very good deal but the problem with that Is then the other players nearing the end of their deals will want more to renew also.You will have the likes of Lenihen wanting 20+ a week and he isn't worth it.

Also do you not want all those players that have left replacing like you keep saying so where is that money coming from?

We also have to be wary with ffp we do not want the club sanctioned again.Our relegation to league one started with the embargo under Bowyer and left us with a truly terrible squad when Coyle was in charge.

I know In the past you have downplayed ffp and pointed at other teams working around it through clever accounting.Well it doesn't look so clever now ,Sheff Wednesday just been relegated, Derby very very lucky not to have been and both clubs overspent massively for what exactly?Both didn't get promoted due to it.

The Armstrong new deal should have happened 12-18 months ago when he first starting showing signs of kicking on.But we can't just give him what he wants to keep him,the club has to cut its cloth accordingly and we should be working toward getting as much as a transfer fee as we possibly can now 

A cock and bull story that has been repeated on here nonetheless.

I see no evidence of the club doing anything proactive whether that be on players, tickets, merchandise so I have extreme doubts with the suggestion that there is a highest paid player deal sat on the table gathering dust. Of course it helps protect those at the Club from criticism the more people believe that they've done their bit and the issue lies with the player not signing it, rather than the more uncomfortable alternative which is we are such a dysfunctional basket case that we've sat and done nothing for the last 12 months (which all the evidence points towards).

I would also see a big difference between Lenihan and Armstrong. Indeed Armstrong and just about everyone else at the club. An Armstrong could and should be netting the Club £20 million. A Lenihan will never do that. Armstrong is younger, with pace and a better injury record and most importantly scores goals, which makes him harder to replace and better placed to command a once in a blue moon bumper fee. 

I completely agree the deal should have been done 12 months ago minimum. So who takes responsibility for this or do we just cart on as we are? I simply cannot accept that we lose Armstrong and possibly league status/FFP compliance because of our own ineptitude and then the people responsible get to remain in place. 

You seem to be of the view that whatever it is that we have done has been 'right' by FFP whereas Derby/Sheffield Wednesday have done wrong and we are now in a stronger position because of it. I think that is nonsense as we are in a shambolic state heading into the season.

Derby will be starting the season next to us, and despite FFP breaches have not had a points deduction and if I were putting money on it now I'd expect them to finish above us. Sheffield Wednesday's points deduction that led to their relegation was nothing to do with overspending, but was down to dodgy accounting and attempts to mislead the league over it. I'm not sure how offering Armstrong a deal reflective of his importance would lead to that here.

I think we are mismanaged from top to bottom. 

It staggers me that smaller clubs - Preston, Millwall, Luton, Barnsley to name a few - can outperform us in this division without FFP trouble, without needing to offload 15 players and make drastic cutbacks. Those are stable clubs. We are not, and having an underachieving manager and his buddy running the show does not mean stability.

[RevidgeBlue]

4 minutes ago, islander200 said:

I'm not comparing Armstrong and Lenihen in terms of ability what I'm saying Is if the club give Armstrong a new deal on significantly higher than our current highest earner then any player we are looking to tie down will be wanting more.I used Lenihen as the example  as he is the captain .

I know. 

I was just saying that sometimes there are players who are indispensable given your current situation such as Armstrong or Dack pre injury and players who are decent and who you'd like to keep but who could realistically be replaced like Lenihan.

I'd push the boat out for the former Category, not so much the latter.

Would you consider it worth it overall banking a net £6 or £7m for Armstrong, attempting to replace him on the cheap, the replacement not hitting it off, and us going down?

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

A cock and bull story that has been repeated on here nonetheless.

I see no evidence of the club doing anything proactive whether that be on players, tickets, merchandise so I have extreme doubts with the suggestion that there is a highest paid player deal sat on the table gathering dust. Of course it helps protect those at the Club from criticism the more people believe that they've done their bit and the issue lies with the player not signing it, rather than the more uncomfortable alternative which is we are such a dysfunctional basket case that we've sat and done nothing for the last 12 months (which all the evidence points towards).

I would also see a big difference between Lenihan and Armstrong. Indeed Armstrong and just about everyone else at the club. An Armstrong could and should be netting the Club £20 million. A Lenihan will never do that. Armstrong is younger, with pace and a better injury record and most importantly scores goals, which makes him harder to replace and better placed to command a once in a blue moon bumper fee. 

I completely agree the deal should have been done 12 months ago minimum. So who takes responsibility for this or do we just cart on as we are? I simply cannot accept that we lose Armstrong and possibly league status/FFP compliance because of our own ineptitude and then the people responsible get to remain in place. 

You seem to be of the view that whatever it is that we have done has been 'right' by FFP whereas Derby/Sheffield Wednesday have done wrong and we are now in a stronger position because of it. I think that is nonsense as we are in a shambolic state heading into the season.

Derby will be starting the season next to us, and despite FFP breaches have not had a points deduction and if I were putting money on it now I'd expect them to finish above us. Sheffield Wednesday's points deduction that led to their relegation was nothing to do with overspending, but was down to dodgy accounting and attempts to mislead the league over it. I'm not sure how offering Armstrong a deal reflective of his importance would lead to that here.

I think we are mismanaged from top to bottom. 

It staggers me that smaller clubs - Preston, Millwall, Luton, Barnsley to name a few - can outperform us in this division without FFP trouble, without needing to offload 15 players and make drastic cutbacks. Those are stable clubs. We are not, and having an underachieving manager and his buddy running the show does not mean stability.

I 100% agree with you that the club is run like an absolute joke.I think our owners are terrible,I just disagree massively with some of the stuff you come out with.

Like not believing we have been trying to get Armstrong to sign a new deal.The owners do spend money on the playing squad we tried buying our way out of the league when we first came down,stupidly granted but how many big contracts did we hand out on complete wasters we are still paying for it today.

They have backed Mowbray since he got here,giving him enough money in my opinion to be challenging the top 6.Not forcing him to sell one player,  let's be honest the manager didn't rate Raya that highly and wasn't bothered about him leaving.

Like the last couple of weeks IV seen people say the Rhodes money disappeared but we didn't even make that much of a profit on Rhodes?The player wanted out a very very long time before they agreed to sell him we bought him for 8 million and on top of that the wages we paid him In his time here we wouldn't have made much profit at all.

We disagree on ffp aswell look how much we are spending on wages compared to turnover and the EFL are cracking down now.Those clubs who gambled and lost on getting to the premier league are being punished now .

Its their disinterest and stupidity I can't stand ,most recent example by the looks of it taps are turned off again and radio silence,they will forget about us for a year until Mowbrays contract runs out.Just sack the man for Christ sake .

Plus sick of hearing people saying they listened to the wrong advice,IV no doubt they were misled initially (Mrs Desai didn't wake up one morning and have a premonition that 5 million and "leasing" players would get Champions league football) but it's been 10 year and they still fill the most important positions at the club with substandard people and don't make a change when they prove their incompetence

[islander200]

15 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I know. 

I was just saying that sometimes there are players who are indispensable given your current situation such as Armstrong or Dack pre injury and players who are decent and who you'd like to keep but who could realistically be replaced like Lenihan.

I'd push the boat out for the former Category, not so much the latter.

Would you consider it worth it overall banking a net £6 or £7m for Armstrong, attempting to replace him on the cheap, the replacement not hitting it off, and us going down?

Don't think we will go down .I probably would take 6 or 7 after Newcastle's cut.

No guarantee Armstrong has as good a season and will his head be right?Could already have a move agreed,I know that's against the rules but it happens.

Plus a massive risk to a player having one year left and a long term injury happens.

We should be trying to buy his replacement now because once sold we will most likely be quoted a higher price but I guess they still ain't picking up the phone 

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Don't think we will go down .I probably would take 6 or 7 after Newcastle's cut.

I admire your confidence. I think there's a  fair chance we could go down WITH Armstrong with this bloody manager at the helm, let alone without him.

Fair point about his potential level of  commitment. I'd rather sell him for £3m in Jan having hopefully secured enough points to make it unlikely we'll go down than this summer though

[islander200]

26 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I know. 

I was just saying that sometimes there are players who are indispensable given your current situation such as Armstrong or Dack pre injury and players who are decent and who you'd like to keep but who could realistically be replaced like Lenihan.

 

I'd agree with this if it was just one or two players but we have a host of players running out of contract they leave on free transfers,no money coming into the club at all in transfer fees , crowds down ,the owners only allowed to put in so much to cover their mistakes.Worrying times 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Would you keep Butterworth at the club this season or allow him out on loan, considering that he has never started a proper game of football?

Keep. I've seen enough of him over the years to know that he's got talent. Plenty of our young talents have done okay without loans. In-fact I'd say on average, more of our players that leave on loan, fail to make it than the ones who never leave.

Look at Lewis Travis & Ryan Nyambe who stayed vs Scott Wharton & Tyler Magloire who went out on loan.

[RevidgeBlue]

28 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Keep. I've seen enough of him over the years to know that he's got talent. Plenty of our young talents have done okay without loans. In-fact I'd say on average, more of our players that leave on loan, fail to make it than the ones who never leave.

Look at Lewis Travis & Ryan Nyambe who stayed vs Scott Wharton & Tyler Magloire who went out on loan.

Wharton looked the business when he came in pre injury and Magloire hasn't had the chance to show what he can do here.

Overall though I agree with you. I've never agreed with this "He's a good 'un let's loan him out" type sentiment. If they're good enough, we want them in our squad. If they're not good get rid. Over the years we've had numerous players hanging round indefinitely without ever featuring like O Sullivan.

Edited July 13, 2021 by RevidgeBlue

[islander200]

55 minutes ago, JHRover said:

A cock and bull story that has been repeated on here nonetheless.

I see no evidence of the club doing anything proactive whether that be on players, tickets, merchandise so I have extreme doubts with the suggestion that there is a highest paid player deal sat on the table gathering dust. Of course it helps protect those at the Club from criticism the more people believe that they've done their bit and the issue lies with the player not signing it, rather than the more uncomfortable alternative which is we are such a dysfunctional basket case that we've sat and done nothing for the last 12 months (which all the evidence points towards).

I would also see a big difference between Lenihan and Armstrong. Indeed Armstrong and just about everyone else at the club. An Armstrong could and should be netting the Club £20 million. A Lenihan will never do that. Armstrong is younger, with pace and a better injury record and most importantly scores goals, which makes him harder to replace and better placed to command a once in a blue moon bumper fee. 

I completely agree the deal should have been done 12 months ago minimum. So who takes responsibility for this or do we just cart on as we are? I simply cannot accept that we lose Armstrong and possibly league status/FFP compliance because of our own ineptitude and then the people responsible get to remain in place. 

You seem to be of the view that whatever it is that we have done has been 'right' by FFP whereas Derby/Sheffield Wednesday have done wrong and we are now in a stronger position because of it. I think that is nonsense as we are in a shambolic state heading into the season.

Derby will be starting the season next to us, and despite FFP breaches have not had a points deduction and if I were putting money on it now I'd expect them to finish above us. Sheffield Wednesday's points deduction that led to their relegation was nothing to do with overspending, but was down to dodgy accounting and attempts to mislead the league over it. I'm not sure how offering Armstrong a deal reflective of his importance would lead to that here.

 

Why would Sheffield Wednesday have needed clever accounting if they weren't in breach of some sort of financial rule?They were spending decent money.

Derby are under an embargo and but for pure luck would have gone down last season and will be fighting at the bottom again next season.

Both those clubs get bigger match day revenue than us and on TV a lot more certainly in Derby's case

Not saying we are better off than Derby this season but the point I make the owners have been putting in the max that they are allowed which should have us a lot more competitive.

The weeds outside ewood and all the things you have grievence with is down to them not having competent people on the ground not because they don't spend money on us.The accounts tell us how much they spend on us

 

Edited July 13, 2021 by islander200

[islander200]

40 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I admire your confidence. I think there's a  fair chance we could go down WITH Armstrong with this bloody manager at the helm, let alone without him.

Fair point about his potential level of  commitment. I'd rather sell him for £3m in Jan having hopefully secured enough points to make it unlikely we'll go down than this summer though

Think 3 worse teams than us just, even without Armstrong,he had a great season last year and is our best asset,I do rate him and obviously my number one choice is for him to sign a new deal, however a lot of his better performances last year came when we dominated games and creating a lot of chances.When teams hadn't worked us out.

Mowbrays formation and tactic when it worked brought the best out of Armstrong,in tighter games he wasn't as good and I don't think we will be blowing any teams away next season,maybe as a team we would be better signing a better hold up player and becoming harder to roll over and share the goals around.His sale might force Mowbray to move away from his "philosophy" as he won't be able to bring in a player anywhere near Armstrongs ability with what he will likely have to spend 

If Mowbray to stay the season we ain't getting promoted,if no hope of play offs be happy to finish   to finish 4th bottom.If Mowbrays deal is renewed after another midtable finish then I would have to consider stopping going until the owners are gone 

Edited July 13, 2021 by islander200

[RevidgeBlue]

8 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Think 3 worse teams than us just, even without Armstrong,he had a great season last year and is our best asset,I do rate him and obviously my number one choice is for him to sign a new deal, however a lot of his better performances last year came when we dominated games and creating a lot of chances.When teams hadn't worked us out.

Mowbrays formation and tactic when it worked brought the best out of Armstrong,in tighter games he wasn't as good and I don't think we will be blowing any teams away next season,maybe as a team we would be better signing a better hold up player and becoming harder to roll over and share the goals around.His sale might force Mowbray to move away from his "philosophy" as he won't be able to bring in a player anywhere near Armstrongs ability with what he will likely have to spend 

If Mowbray to stay the season we ain't getting promoted,if no hope of play offs be happy to finish   to finish 4th bottom.If Mowbrays deal is renewed after another midtable finish then I would have to consider stopping going until the owners are gone 

I don't think there's anything wrong per se with Mowbray's purported footballing philosophy (which he fails to reproduce on the pitch.)

He just isn't the man to implement it. There's no future going back to hoofing it long to a target man imo. We only finished 15th playing like that as well.

 

[roversfan99]

44 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Keep. I've seen enough of him over the years to know that he's got talent. Plenty of our young talents have done okay without loans. In-fact I'd say on average, more of our players that leave on loan, fail to make it than the ones who never leave.

Look at Lewis Travis & Ryan Nyambe who stayed vs Scott Wharton & Tyler Magloire who went out on loan.

Each case is individual to the player, Wharton seemed set to kick on and establish himself after benefitting from maturing out on loan and Lenihan also propelled himself off the back of a loan at Burton Albion.

Butterworth has never started a professional football game, surely regular game time is better than sanitised kids football and the odd cameo?

[islander200]

2 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I don't think there's anything wrong per se with Mowbray's purported footballing philosophy (which he fails to reproduce on the pitch.)

He just isn't the man to implement it. There's no future going back to hoofing it long to a target man imo. We only finished 15th playing like that as well.

 

Yeah maybe I should have been clearer we dont have the players to implement what he wants tho.So stupidity to stick with it.

Like the full backs and central mid are majorly important in what he is trying to do and certainly left back and centre mid we were very weak last season.

If a new manager had come in he would have changed the system...full backs playing far too high leaving centre halves exposed and weak midfield couldn't cover them.

I think Armstrong will be sold 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[islander200]

16 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Each case is individual to the player, Wharton seemed set to kick on and establish himself after benefitting from maturing out on loan and Lenihan also propelled himself off the back of a loan at Burton Albion.

Butterworth has never started a professional football game, surely regular game time is better than sanitised kids football and the odd cameo?

Had Dolan played a competitive game before last year?Granted he wasn't overly amazing later  but he played his part .

It's not like we have loads of options in forward areas at the minute let's see what he does in pre season and if he is involved in the opening games?He is obviously regarded by the club ,if his talent is as good as they say  and he can make a contribution from the bench he will be worth keeping here

Edited July 13, 2021 by islander200

[Tom]

5 hours ago, JoeH said:

Darragh Lenihan hadn't, David Raya hadn't, Ryan Nyambe hadn't. Top talent is in reference to the Championship, I'm not calling him Leo Messi of course.

Nyambe absolutely had made his mark and broken through at 22, he may be a better player now but he’s currently 23 and has made 153 appearances for us.

Not saying Butterworth won’t come good but Nyambe made his debut at 18 and has been a championship (and league 1) regular ever since, you can’t compare the two

Edited to add David Raya also made his debut at 19, became the first choice keeper a year or so later then departed for big money at 23 with 98 appearances 

Edited July 13, 2021 by Tom