Summer transfer window 2021.

[chaddyrovers]

I would looking at Hearts centre defender John Souttar to replace Darragh Lenihan. 

Everton right back John-Jo Kenny to replace Ryan Nyambe

maybe look at Burton's midfielder Daniel Powell to replace Joe Rothwell

[Sparks Rover]

7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray has said he doesn't get involved in the players contract terms negotiations

Well he's lying then.  But you know better:

Chaddy the Contrarian 💪

[RevidgeBlue]

1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

Well he's lying then.  But you know better:

Chaddy the Contrarian 💪

To be fair to chaddy I'm sure I remember Mowbray saying in the LT in the past that Venus was in charge of the contract negotiations.

That could have changed of course, I don't doubt Mowbray speaks to the player to outline his vision for him at the Club

I.e. "You'll have to come in behind everyone else son and learn how to play like Corry and Richie before we'll consider you for a start"

🙂

[Sparks Rover]

15 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

To be fair to chaddy I'm sure I remember Mowbray saying in the LT in the past that Venus was in charge of the contract negotiations.

That could have changed of course, I don't doubt Mowbray speaks to the player to outline his vision for him at the Club

I.e. "You'll have to come in behind everyone else son and learn how to play like Corry and Richie before we'll consider you for a start"

🙂

No Rev, he talks money and what budget the club has for wages with the player in front of him....I have it from the horses mouth, you can always believe the contrarian if you want.

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

To be fair to chaddy I'm sure I remember Mowbray saying in the LT in the past that Venus was in charge of the contract negotiations

Mowbray's comment on contracts negotiations

"I don’t get involved in the contract negotiations."

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/tony-mowbray-delivers-fresh-update-on-blackburn-rovers-aces-future/

[bluebruce]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would looking at Hearts centre defender John Souttar to replace Darragh Lenihan. 

Everton right back John-Jo Kenny to replace Ryan Nyambe

maybe look at Burton's midfielder Daniel Powell to replace Joe Rothwell

When you factor in transfer fees, would those players be cheaper than adding say another 2k per week (100k a year) to the contract offers for players we already have?

For me, we need to get these contracts over the line. Obviously if their demands are totally ridiculous, there is always a limit, but within reason, I expect that even if we still sold the players, in the summer say, the increase in fees we could command would compensate for wage increases and loyalty fees in new deals, especially given the wage increases then wouldn't be over the full length of a contract.

Yes there are risks to signing players onto decent lengthy contracts, but it's not like all 3 are realistically going to get crippling injuries in the near term, and an increased fee for just one would mitigate that risk. And we have had these lads at the club a while now, we know what they are all about ability wise and in terms of how they fit in at the club.

Without being privy to the exact contract discussions, I find it hard to conclude losing any or all of them on frees would be anything other than very bad business.

[K-Hod]

If Mowbray doesn’t know how much our players earn or plan to earn, he must be the only manager in football that applies to!

[chaddyrovers]

8 hours ago, bluebruce said:

When you factor in transfer fees, would those players be cheaper than adding say another 2k per week (100k a year) to the contract offers for players we already have?

For me, we need to get these contracts over the line. Obviously if their demands are totally ridiculous, there is always a limit, but within reason, I expect that even if we still sold the players, in the summer say, the increase in fees we could command would compensate for wage increases and loyalty fees in new deals, especially given the wage increases then wouldn't be over the full length of a contract.

Yes there are risks to signing players onto decent lengthy contracts, but it's not like all 3 are realistically going to get crippling injuries in the near term, and an increased fee for just one would mitigate that risk. And we have had these lads at the club a while now, we know what they are all about ability wise and in terms of how they fit in at the club.

Without being privy to the exact contract discussions, I find it hard to conclude losing any or all of them on frees would be anything other than very bad business.

All depends on the wage demands of the player and agents in all truth. I'm not privy to any inside contract talks from these 3 players. 

Can't see it being a couple of grand the problem. Maybe higher demands judging from Waggott and Mowbray 's comments. 

On the players I mention, Souttar, Powell and Kenny are out of contract this summer. So we aren't talking big sums of money

[Bigdoggsteel]

20 hours ago, islander200 said:

I agree on that point, he didnt warrant a big deal.

Similar with Lenihen, he could find himself out of the team if Wharton progresses and Ayala stays fit as he hasnt kicked on,stats suggest we get better results with him in the team but as an individual he has been pretty poor imo.

My anger isnt over the fact we havent signed them up but they should have been sold.Something going into recruitment is better than nothing and we would havd seen some of any fees brought in last summer.

We left it too late to do anything about it,at best we will get small fees in january 

Did we leave it too late though? Do you know exactly when negotiations with them started or when offers were made. I mean it could have been 2 years ago. I suppose, either way, they haven't signed. 

I think Lenihan is very important to the team and you are doing him a bit of a disservice. He wins so many aerial duels per game and does a lot of dirty work. Distribution lacking at times, but could we sign better? I don't think we could. No guarantees anyway. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 hours ago, K-Hod said:

If Mowbray doesn’t know how much our players earn or plan to earn, he must be the only manager in football that applies to!

Who said he doesn't know?

[Bigdoggsteel]

19 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Yes he does, he sits with players and agents and discusses budget, how much they can offer, cast iron he certainly does.  Him and waggot are the ones in charge, yes the accountant does the button pressing but the contracts and amounts are discussed with player/agent with Mowbray and Maggot...

I know of 2 players in the last 18 months who have confirmed this. One signed, the other didn't.

Well either you or him are lying. He can speak generally I'm sure and I have no doubt that sound promising at times, but when it comes to the nuts and bolts someone is else is doing that and that's when issues arise and players get greedier and backtrack on verbal discussions. 

https://footballleagueworld.co.uk/tony-mowbray-delivers-fresh-update-on-blackburn-rovers-aces-future/ 

[Bigdoggsteel]

18 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would looking at Hearts centre defender John Souttar to replace Darragh Lenihan. 

Everton right back John-Jo Kenny to replace Ryan Nyambe

maybe look at Burton's midfielder Daniel Powell to replace Joe Rothwell

Chaddy these types of lists are pointless. We don't have a decent structure behind the scenes when it comes to identifying talent and punching above our weight. 

[EgyptianPete]

18 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Well he's lying then.  But you know better:

Chaddy the Contrarian 💪

Ha ha tell me when Mowbray tells the truth.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Can't see it being a couple of grand the problem. Maybe higher demands judging from Waggott and Mowbray 's comments. 

If it's true that we are contributing 10k p.w. towards Poveda's wages then by not bringing him in that could have allowed us to offer say Nyambe an extra £5k p.w. for 2 seasons.

Would that in itself be enough to get a deal for him over the line? I don't know but the principle still applies. Our priorities are all wrong and over the last few seasons we have wasted, and continue to waste, money like water.

[Sparks Rover]

15 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Well either you or him are lying.

Nobody is lying.  Chaddy has been misinformed from a position of not having a clue.

I have been informed by 2 players in the last 18 months that they do talk contracts and budgets with maggodon...

Do you think I'm just making things up?

[islander200]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Did we leave it too late though? Do you know exactly when negotiations with them started or when offers were made. I mean it could have been 2 years ago. I suppose, either way, they haven't signed. 

I think Lenihan is very important to the team and you are doing him a bit of a disservice. He wins so many aerial duels per game and does a lot of dirty work. Distribution lacking at times, but could we sign better? I don't think we could. No guarantees anyway. 

Clearly we did leave it too late.If they werent for signing new deals then they should have been sold to get the maximum value we could, like every other club does.

I dont think Lenihen has progressed like i thought he would, i think he is pretty poor as individual.

No arguing with the fact we get better results with him in the team but thats aided by the fact the alternatives were so poor.

Id need to see some more of Wharton but from what iv seen he looks liks he will be a better defender than Lenihen.

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by islander200

[RoversClitheroe]

20 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would be offering Nyambe a contract around 8 to 10k a week and Rothwell around 12k a week. If they won't accept those terms then we need to sell them in January and bring in the players we need.

Lol, Nyambes one of the best RBs in the league.

When Rothwell is firing he's absolutely unplayable.

We should be moving heaven and earth for them.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

Nobody is lying.  Chaddy has been misinformed from a position of not having a clue.

I have been informed by 2 players in the last 18 months that they do talk contracts and budgets with maggodon...

Do you think I'm just making things up?

I think what chaddy is saying sounds about right. Do you think Pep or Klopp are negotiating contracts with players? What about say Scott Parker? 

I have no doubt broad discussions happen with the manager about ball park figures ,but contracts are much ,much more complicated than that. It would be beyond most of their skill sets. Football contracts are far more complex than typical employment contracts so I'm not saying I could do it or anything. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

32 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Clearly we did leave it too late.If they werent for signing new deals then they should have been sold to get the maximum value we could, like every other club does.

I dont think Lenihen has progressed like i thought he would, i think he is pretty poor as individual.

No arguing with the fact we get better results with him in the team but thats aided by the fact the alternatives were so poor.

Id need to see some more of Wharton but from what iv seen he looks liks he will be a better defender than Lenihen.

 

Again, you're missing the point. Why would Mowbray sell them when there is A-no guarantee he wil get the money and B-no guarantee we could replace their quality? The club isnt run well behind the scenes. You ca see glimpses of that at times, for example the whole thing around the head of recruitment and how long it took to replace them. Whoever negotiates our deals is either over worked with too much to do, or not great at it, I reckon. 

Ya,hopefully Wharton is better...

[Wheelton Blue]

27 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Lol, Nyambes one of the best RBs in the league.

When Rothwell is firing he's absolutely unplayable.

We should be moving heaven and earth for them.

 

I agree.

Chaddy has a point though. If either won't sign no matter what, then we should sell them in January to at least get some money back.

[islander200]

14 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Again, you're missing the point. Why would Mowbray sell them when there is A-no guarantee he wil get the money and B-no guarantee we could replace their quality? The club isnt run well behind the scenes. You ca see glimpses of that at times, for example the whole thing around the head of recruitment and how long it took to replace them. Whoever negotiates our deals is either over worked with too much to do, or not great at it, I reckon. 

Ya,hopefully Wharton is better...

He brought 12 players in though Bigdogg so i find it hard to fathom that they wouldnt have let him spend a little bit.

It would have been better getting something for them rather than nothing especially with the position we find ourselves in.

Its foward planning and considering the amount of times he  mentions his plans for the club then as an experienced football man i would expect him to be looking longer term rather than pinning his hopes on the delusions he had of us being a top six squad last season.We did not need to bring 12 players in to finish 15th, half of thrm contributed nothing.

I agree nearly every aspect of the club is sub standard and by no means am i laying all the blame at Mowbrays door here.

Our owners are the major problem here i am not disputing that but at the sametime i understand they are not football people and they pay the people on the ground to run the club on their behalf.With the money they have provided and the money they pay these people they should be getting more for what they are putting in.

For example might be a small thing to you but i live on the street beside the ground ,walk past it everyday and it was utter disgrace the state of it,Rubbish weeds all over the place etc.

To the owners be a trivial matter so im expected to believe our 300k a year ceo has to contact the owners for permission and the money to do something about it.

The owners agree a budget the club work off that budget so i believe the people on the ground are to blame aswell for the situation we are in including Mowbray 

The most suspicious thing is why they have never just forked out the money for a top ceo and a decent manager

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by islander200

[RoversClitheroe]

28 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think what chaddy is saying sounds about right. Do you think Pep or Klopp are negotiating contracts with players? What about say Scott Parker? 

I have no doubt broad discussions happen with the manager about ball park figures ,but contracts are much ,much more complicated than that. It would be beyond most of their skill sets. Football contracts are far more complex than typical employment contracts so I'm not saying I could do it or anything. 

Have you just compared Mowbrays scenario to Pep and Klopp? 😂

[riverholmes]

Mowbray said in August 2021:  “In the future moving forward, Lenihan, Nyambe and Rothwell are in similar situations (to Armstrong) and we’ll have to deal with that and see how we go...For me, talking to the club, let’s get this window finished and see if we can address some of the situations, see where we are financially, and if we can’t offer new improved contracts then they are going to run."

Unless Mowbray misspoke, which might have happened, it would seem that, at that time, the club's policy was to let these three players' contracts run, if they don't sign new deals. As others have mentioned, if there was an opportunity, it would've made sense to at least sell one, to recoup a fee.

I really don't think finances will be the only priority for Lenihan and Co. Amari'i Bell left Rovers this summer and is now, seemingly, a regular player for Luton who may well finish above Rovers. Regardless of finances, Rovers have not shown, for some time, any progress on the pitch. 

Edit: To correct, as pointed out by Roversfan99, I stated that Bell had rejected a contract offer from Rovers before leaving. But, just checking again, as far as I can see, that wasn't the case and that he was released.

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by riverholmes

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, riverholmes said:

Mowbray said in August 2021:  “In the future moving forward, Lenihan, Nyambe and Rothwell are in similar situations (to Armstrong) and we’ll have to deal with that and see how we go...For me, talking to the club, let’s get this window finished and see if we can address some of the situations, see where we are financially, and if we can’t offer new improved contracts then they are going to run."

Unless Mowbray misspoke, which might have happened, it would seem that, at that time, the club's policy was to let these three players' contracts run, if they don't sign new deals. 

I really don't think finances will be the only priority for Lenihan and Co. Amari'i Bell turned down a new deal from Rovers this summer and is now, seemingly, a regular player for Luton who may well finish above Rovers. Regardless of finances, Rovers have not shown, for some time, any progress as a club.

 

 

With Bell, we didn't offer him a new deal which was correct because of the 3 and a half years of terrible performances, he didn't turn us down.

[islander200]

Another thing im told Mowbray doesnt tell lies well in an interview he spoke of how they had to slow the owners down with their plans and there spending added to the fact he acts in complete shock over the wage demands of players everytime a window comes around i dont think its beyond the realms of possibiliy this wage ceiling was recommended to them.

We did use to pay Rhodes 35k a week and many others in excess of our current wage ceiling.

If we didnt have to have such a big squad and have to make 2 or 3 changes to the team on a weekly basis perhaps we could play with a smaller squad,focused on more qualiy within it