Rovers v Rotherham

[JHRover]

Its the perfect storm. Poor manager and coaches means promising player(s) doesn't realise his potential. Promising players then run down their contracts and look to leave, ending up at rival Championship club with better coaches where they prosper.

We get nothing or very little to show for it, other clubs can pick up our academy produce on the cheap and polish them up into gems under proper contracts worth Big money.

We stick with the same old coaches and wait for the next batch to come and go.

Due to crap management/coaching people think the players aren't very good, until they go elsewhere and perform.

Having to sell your assets is a fact of life where we are but not even coining it in when we get good players coming through in our financial position is simply inexcusable.

[WacoRover]

I have to wonder how our bunch would have done under a Dyche, or Howe... waste of time, I guess. 

[Mike E]

11 minutes ago, WacoRover said:

I have to wonder how our bunch would have done under a Dyche, or Howe... waste of time, I guess. 

Don't have to imagine it, Burnley are doing it.

[WacoRover]

1 minute ago, Mike E said:

Don't have to imagine it, Burnley are doing it.

I’m not disagreeing with you, but Burnley have a bit better roster than us. I’d say 5-6 of their guys could play for other PL clubs. Tarkowski, Pope, Wood, Vydra, Barnes, Rodriguez, Westwood, et. al. 
 

 

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Ulrich said:

England u19 & u20 at forest and with us? It's only this season he has shown glimpses and he was already doing that at forest. TM basically benched him for the 1st season and now he's back where he was, not exactly progress in my eyes. Travis looked a really good prospect, busy got about the pitch, protected the flanks and now he looks less, much less. I don't perceive just playing in the championship means progress, I want to see his ability improve and neither really have in my eyes. 

To be fair, so many poor players get into the England under age groups (wasnt Jason Lowe captain?) and Brereton couldnt make the bench at Forest when they pulled our pants down for us to bring him here. The issue with him isnt development as he went from embarrassing for 2 years to below average this season, the problem is signing him at all for a scandalous fee.

With Travis, he was a breath of fresh air compared to the likes of Smallwood who was very static but the injury does seem to have stunted his development. I dont buy this narrative that Mowbray has turned him into a crab. I do think however that Mowbray has signed a lot of underwhelming midfielders to go alongside him.

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

Cross to who exactly? The towering centre forward Armstrong? The nippy winger Sam Gallagher will suit be stood 8 feet away from him on the edge of the box looking for a 1-2, or lurking on the edge of the box on the other side waiting to bend it like Chris Brown.

We barely put any crosses in, because we aren’t set up to. Ball retention seems to be our absolute priority. Nyambe isn’t the only one responsible for repeatedly working the ball back to the keeper from the byline within three touches.

We play a system that seems to encourage every single player to do less of what they are naturally good at.

I appreciate that our tactics arent set up to whip crosses in but to be fair, Nyambe has never shown any proficiency at crossing, he has always had a tendency to turn back and one area that in fact this season he has shown development in is how to use his strengths and weaknesses; poor crossing but obvious brute power and pace so he has started to chalk up assists by finding ways to use his strengths to get to the byline and rather than need to whip in a brilliant cross, hes done most of the work so just needs a pull back, I think it was the Barnsley home game that was a perfect example.

My issues with Mowbray around Nyambe revolve around selecting far inferior players and moreso the fact that he will be allowed to leave for peanuts due to the contractual situation which has not been managed well. I do think that Nyambe is overrated at times but he is of a good if not perfect Championship full back at the start of his career and he will not be replaced with someone of equal quality.

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

Cross to who exactly? The towering centre forward Armstrong? The nippy winger Sam Gallagher will suit be stood 8 feet away from him on the edge of the box looking for a 1-2, or lurking on the edge of the box on the other side waiting to bend it like Chris Brown.

We barely put any crosses in, because we aren’t set up to. Ball retention seems to be our absolute priority. Nyambe isn’t the only one responsible for repeatedly working the ball back to the keeper from the byline within three touches.

We play a system that seems to encourage every single player to do less of what they are naturally good at.

Thing is, even with that being the case and being dropped several times he has 4 assists this season. Our joint-third highest. Until very recently he was joint-second highest.

He has played 3 to 4 less games than all of those level or above him in the list and is the only defender amongst them.

[bluebruce]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

 

I appreciate that our tactics arent set up to whip crosses in but to be fair, Nyambe has never shown any proficiency at crossing, he has always had a tendency to turn back and one area that in fact this season he has shown development in is how to use his strengths and weaknesses; poor crossing but obvious brute power and pace so he has started to chalk up assists by finding ways to use his strengths to get to the byline and rather than need to whip in a brilliant cross, hes done most of the work so just needs a pull back, I think it was the Barnsley home game that was a perfect example.

My issues with Mowbray around Nyambe revolve around selecting far inferior players and moreso the fact that he will be allowed to leave for peanuts due to the contractual situation which has not been managed well. I do think that Nyambe is overrated at times but he is of a good if not perfect Championship full back at the start of his career and he will not be replaced with someone of equal quality.

I think his point was more that 'how would we know?' about Nyambe's crossing ability? There is hardly ever anyone to aim for, making good runs, or good enough in the air to get on the end of them when he does cross. Obviously a Beckham or someone could make that work anyway, but that's too high a standard. Even our best passer, Elliott, has hardly been whipping them in and finding someone too frequently.

You say he has a tendency to turn back...well yes, so would I, there's no bugger there worth trying to get it to.

You're right he has found a way around the problem though, and right about the disgraceful contract situation. I said when he signed his last contract it was 'insultingly short' and here we are not all that long later.

Edited April 30, 2021 by bluebruce

[Ulrich]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

To be fair, so many poor players get into the England under age groups (wasnt Jason Lowe captain?) and Brereton couldnt make the bench at Forest when they pulled our pants down for us to bring him here. The issue with him isnt development as he went from embarrassing for 2 years to below average this season, the problem is signing him at all for a scandalous fee.

With Travis, he was a breath of fresh air compared to the likes of Smallwood who was very static but the injury does seem to have stunted his development. I dont buy this narrative that Mowbray has turned him into a crab. I do think however that Mowbray has signed a lot of underwhelming midfielders to go alongside him.

Oh without doubt we overpaid for BB, 7m was scandalous, regardless of installments and add-ons. I saw him play at Arsenal and he had a cracking game, abliet against a slow opponent, but he was hardly a novice and he made him look like one.

Vs the Gooners

Monitored by Big clubs for a long time and considered promising, benched when signing for us sure, but at worst a possible good player, perhaps a bit lost on his 'journey' 🤔😂. No speculation or potential of that magnitude was ever displayed by Lowe. Lest we forget he was not even played after being our BIG money signing. What a confidence booster that must have been. Faith and mentality is a crucial aspect of developmental progress, as who maximises their potential when in the wrong frame of mind and being dumped after joining, negative states. I don't believe most people in any situation like that would 'grow',would you? TM needed to play him, as a striker, from day one, that way his mental state would have been vastly improved and his chances of returning to previous levels and possibly growing, increase drastically. Anyone who has lived life knows when you feel wanted and people show belief in you, people tend to perform better and their chances of improving, improve. It's common sense, but we never played him, talked him down and carried on his negative senario from fores, perhaps increasing it. Young people these days struggle with 'negatives', because all they get is positive. Given the previous displays, strong links and fanfare, BB could have probably turned out better for us than he is now, if under the right tutelage.

Anyway if after listening to TMs drivel for 4 years, if no one actually believes that a more intelligent manager couldn't have 'developed' these players further than a man who contradicts himself most days, then I'll streak at the next home match we're allowed in for. And if the answers no then there is really no point in changing management is there.

In true teacher style for Travis, see above. Haha.

 

[rossyrover]

The problem lies with a manager who's tactics are from a time that has passed by and he has not come to grips with the modern way the game and tactics have evolved I for one doubt he can. 

[Miller11]

1 hour ago, rossyrover said:

The problem lies with a manager who's tactics are from a time that has passed by and he has not come to grips with the modern way the game and tactics have evolved I for one doubt he can. 

I think you are totally wrong here. 
 

Mowbray seems obsessed with trying to play the game “the modern way”... keep hold of the ball at all costs, pass it across the back 4 ad nauseum, get your keeper as far away from his goal one as possible, match players to positions based on physical attributes and not natural ability, largely noncommittal defending, ignore set pieces and use only as a method to further retain possession, false 9’s, midfielders staying zonal and leaving their men, diving, obsessing over numbers and stats except the important ones - scores and points... etc etc.

The problem is that the modern approach that all coaches are now taught is seen as good for youth player development. It’s also perceived to be exciting for some inexplicable reason. Trouble is it only actually works for elite teams who are significantly better than other teams they come up against. Mowbray seems to have set his stall out with this approach, and we aren’t very good at it.

I am pretty sure we would be at least 6 places better off if we had employed “tactics from a time passed by” like Burnley do.

Edited April 30, 2021 by Miller11
Typi

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Cross to who exactly? The towering centre forward Armstrong? The nippy winger Sam Gallagher will usually be stood 8 feet away from him on the edge of the box looking for a 1-2, or lurking on the edge of the box on the other side waiting to bend it like Chris Brown.

We barely put any crosses in, because we aren’t set up to. Ball retention seems to be our absolute priority. Nyambe isn’t the only one responsible for repeatedly working the ball back to the keeper from the byline within three touches.

We play a system that seems to encourage every single player to do less of what they are naturally good at.

He has never been good at it though. I agree the system isn't set up for it, but I'm not sure he has that attacking side in him. He hasn't even scored 1 goal yet 

[Miller11]

28 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He has never been good at it though. I agree the system isn't set up for it, but I'm not sure he has that attacking side in him. He hasn't even scored 1 goal yet 

Lack of a goal is completely irrelevant. He’s a fullback who stays back for every single set piece.

[MarkBRFC]

Probably not the right thread for it but I can see the tide is slowly turning on here regarding Nyambe, as it did with Raya, trying to make out like he isn't good enough because he is likely leaving.

If we're planning on going through next season with JRC and Pike as our right back options we'll be in trouble.

Anyway, looking forward to todays game, more to see if Rotherham can make a fight of staying up more than anything else. Would have liked to have seen a couple of young lads given a game but Mowbray knows all about them apparently so we'll carry on with a load of players playing for contracts elsewhere.

[rigger]

I would just like to see our best players, playing in their best positions, in a working system. The problem is, I don't think Mowbray is of the same opinion.

 

[Paul Mani]

1 hour ago, MarkBRFC said:

Probably not the right thread for it but I can see the tide is slowly turning on here regarding Nyambe, as it did with Raya, trying to make out like he isn't good enough because he is likely leaving.

If we're planning on going through next season with JRC and Pike as our right back options we'll be in trouble.

Anyway, looking forward to todays game, more to see if Rotherham can make a fight of staying up more than anything else. Would have liked to have seen a couple of young lads given a game but Mowbray knows all about them apparently so we'll carry on with a load of players playing for contracts elsewhere.

Nah not really pal. Would be absolutely gutted if we lost JRC or Rothwell, who are also yet to sign contracts. There’s no conspiracy theory here. Some fans (me included) just don’t think RN is that good. I haven’t seen enough of Pike to know if he’s ready but JRC plus another would be fine by me 👍🏼
 

Hope to see some young lads get a game today. Mcbride, Dolan and Pike to play some part.. Buckley, Trav and Davenport to start in midfield. 

[MarkBRFC]

58 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Nah not really pal. Would be absolutely gutted if we lost JRC or Rothwell, who are also yet to sign contracts. There’s no conspiracy theory here. Some fans (me included) just don’t think RN is that good. I haven’t seen enough of Pike to know if he’s ready but JRC plus another would be fine by me 👍🏼

If (probably when) we lose Nyambe this summer, I can pretty much gaurentee that whoever we play at right back instead next season won't be better.

Edited May 1, 2021 by MarkBRFC

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Nyambe is a very good defender one-one-one and would probably put the likes of Trent Alexander-Arnold to shame (maybe a stretch but you get the point!). But TAA can ping a 50 yard crossfield pass on someone's toe, smash a free kick in for 30 yards and has all the skills of a Brazilian wide midfielder from the 70's. Nyambe obviously can't. The FB role has changed.

Because Mowbray effectively copied Liverpool's system this season he'll want at TAA rather than a Nyambe at FB. JRC is probably the closest he's got as he's technically better than Nyambe and uses the ball better. But he's not a patch on Nyambe defensively.

Horses for courses. Liverpool don't need FB's who can defend as they are set up to win the ball back before it gets near their defence. They want FB's who can create and score like TAA. I'm not sure Rovers can afford that luxury.

Interesting that Pickering looks very similar in style to Andy Robertson from the few video clips I've seen - very attacking, very direct.

As for Mowbray, he very much sees himself as a cutting-edge, modern coach. The dinosaur jibes aren't really accurate. He's more like a Klopp fanboy who tries to copy everything Klopp does. Mowbray strives for credibility by association, he drops the right names and uses all the modern football lingo. He just isn't very good at getting results. 

 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[tomphil]

3 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Probably not the right thread for it but I can see the tide is slowly turning on here regarding Nyambe, as it did with Raya, trying to make out like he isn't good enough because he is likely leaving.

If we're planning on going through next season with JRC and Pike as our right back options we'll be in trouble.

Anyway, looking forward to todays game, more to see if Rotherham can make a fight of staying up more than anything else. Would have liked to have seen a couple of young lads given a game but Mowbray knows all about them apparently so we'll carry on with a load of players playing for contracts elsewhere.

Yep, seeds get planted way back then as it becomes likely he's off it grows and grows.

Just like Raya, Nyambie is a younger player still with flaws and has suffered here from being thrown in and expected to be the finished article.  Neither has had a good experienced player in their position to work with and compete with. 1 went from a proper keeper set up to being coached by a novice.  The other has been dropped for teachers pet midfielder at times and rotated according to opposition at others.

Both suffered for it imo, both scapegoats in the managers eyes and consequently some fans.  I see it ending in a similar type deal sooner or later and if Mowbray elects to keep Bennett on the strength of that he deserves the pitchforks that will come.

Edited May 1, 2021 by tomphil

[Gone to seed]

Rovers fans forum joins the International Apathy League...

Well, it would if it could be bothered...

Rovers' form on the up as the Gurnmeister seeks to implement arse-covering tactical manouvre number zehn from his almanac. Rotherham's form in the toilet in recent games due to the end of season prospect of having their fate in their own hands.

Nailed on solid home banker, to take the season down to the wire for the Millers. TM so asleep during the game he misses the bus home.

ZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Bigdoggsteel]

13 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Lack of a goal is completely irrelevant. He’s a fullback who stays back for every single set piece.

It isn't. It's in line with his general offensive play. Assists practically non existent too. He's a good defender, but over hyped on here and excused with claims that it's Mowbrays fault he hasn't improved. The modern full back role has changed and he is missing a lot of the stuff necessary to be a top championship one 

Edited May 1, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[simongarnerisgod]

2 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Nyambe is a very good defender one-one-one and would probably put the likes of Trent Alexander-Arnold to shame (maybe a stretch but you get the point!). But TAA can ping a 50 yard crossfield pass on someone's toe, smash a free kick in for 30 yards and has all the skills of a Brazilian wide midfielder from the 70's. Nyambe obviously can't. The FB role has changed.

Because Mowbray effectively copied Liverpool's system this season he'll want at TAA rather than a Nyambe at FB. JRC is probably the closest he's got as he's technically better than Nyambe and uses the ball better. But he's not a patch on Nyambe defensively.

Horses for courses. Liverpool don't need FB's who can defend as they are set up to win the ball back before it gets near their defence. They want FB's who can create and score like TAA. I'm not sure Rovers can afford that luxury.

Interesting that Pickering looks very similar in style to Andy Robertson from the few video clips I've seen - very attacking, very direct.

As for Mowbray, he very much sees himself as a cutting-edge, modern coach. The dinosaur jibes aren't really accurate. He's more like a Klopp fanboy who tries to copy everything Klopp does. Mowbray strives for credibility by association, he drops the right names and uses all the modern football lingo. He just isn't very good at getting results. 

 

good point,i think he identifies himself more on pep than klopp,but it`s the same result,he is`nt a good enough coach to communicate his team shape,hence thats why we are were we are and it will stay the same until they chop the conceited ****,i really don`t like him anymore

[rigger]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It isn't. It's in line with his general offensive play. Assists practically non existent too. He's a good defender, but over hyped on here and excused with claims that it's Mowbrays fault he hasn't improved. 

I would describe Nyambe more in terms of a good recoverer of his own mistakes. If he didn't make the mistakes in the first place he would be an excellent defender.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Last chance saloon for the mighty Millers. They need at least a point from this and probably all three. I'd like them to stay up so genuinely not arsed if we win or not. I'm a bad fan!

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, Meesh said:

This is the most beautiful post I've ever seen. You've Vulcan mind-melded with thousands all at once.

I've not Vulcan mind-melded with you enough though to know if you're taking the p1ss😉

Edited May 1, 2021 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[rigger]

2 minutes ago, Meesh said:

This is the most beautiful post I've ever seen. You've Vulcan mind-melded with thousands all at once.

My mind used to meld in the Vulcan.