Championship 21/22

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

For me, there is 3 spots in top 6 open for any team to break into them

You said that last season, and the season before, and season before...you and Gav🙈

[JHRover]

I see that Steve Gibson was proactive at Middlesbrough. He heard that Wilder was open to the job, heard that rivals were on the lookout so dispensed with Warnock and got him in during the international break.

Some may say harsh on Warnock but he was out of contract and likely to retire in the summer whereas Wilder can commit to a few years. You don't let good options slip through your fingers and sometimes you have to move quickly to secure them whilst available before someone else gets them.

This is why this notion that we are just waiting for Mowbray's contract to run down before bringing in a new manager is fanciful stuff.

Would be no surprise to see a rapid improvement at Middlesbrough and for them to get into promotion contention in the next couple of years. Then come the summer all the naysayers will be out with the usual 'but who would come here' when we talk about making a change. Well a brilliant option has just passed us by because a rival is on the lookout whereas we are not.

[1864roverite]

Boro have had a succession of so called good managers with promotions on cvs but the reality is they are as bad as anything Rovers are. Steve Gibson maybe proactive in getting Wilder in however every manager he gets in seems to manage the same ambition and yet fails !

Edited November 8, 2021 by 1864roverite

[JHRover]

The difference is that whilst many of Middlesbrough's appointments haven't worked out that well you can see the logic in each of them and Gibson isn't afraid of quickly making a change if he thinks it is for the best.

Since our dear Tony was sacked they've not done so badly on managers.

Karanka took them to the Premier League.

Monk only lasted 6 months but had them in the top 6 when sacked.

Pulis took them to the play-offs in his first season and finished 7th in his second season.

Woodgate was a sentimental appointment of a rookie but they realised their mistake and sacked him after less than a season

Warnock came in and kept them up, finished mid-table last season.

Wilder comes with a very impressive record.

Karanka-Monk-Pulis-Warnock-Wilder were appointments of managers at the peak of their powers not have beens or nonentities like we've had here and stuck with for far too long.

[chaddyrovers]

Lets see if Wilder can reproduce the goods now at Middlesbrough like he did at Sheffield United #

Look at Hughton, McCarthy, Warnock all sacked this seasons who people wanted here 

[JHRover]

11 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Lets see if Wilder can reproduce the goods now at Middlesbrough like he did at Sheffield United #

Look at Hughton, McCarthy, Warnock all sacked this seasons who people wanted here 

What you need to understand Chaddy is that if any of those managers had been at Rovers they would still be here.

Managers, provided the owners like them, survive here regardless of results or performance. The only think the top people in India are bothered about is having someone in place grateful to them and willing to do things their way, including flying out to India

Other clubs won't tolerate poor runs of form and will make a change. Rovers will just sit by and do nothing because it is easier and cheaper to stick than it is to twist.

This is why dysfunctional clubs - Cardiff being one - have had promotion to the PL recently because they make changes and try to get somewhere.

Mowbray would have been toast last season at any other club and he knows it. He is very lucky to still be managing this club. Just because we keep him regardless whilst others get sacked doesn't mean he is better or that the Venky way is correct because in the longer term we know it will get us nowhere and we will be in a sorry state sooner rather than later with the contracts.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

What you need to understand Chaddy is that if any of those managers had been at Rovers they would still be here.

Managers, provided the owners like them, survive here regardless of results or performance. The only think the top people in India are bothered about is having someone in place grateful to them and willing to do things their way, including flying out to India

Well they would need to be appoint firstly and I don't think any of them would have lasted here as long as Mowbray. Forest fans had so got fed up with Hughton and his tactics, Boro fans at Warnock plus Gav posted from a Boro supporter friend. 

Mowbray has gained the owners trust clearly and it's seem important to them 

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

This is why dysfunctional clubs - Cardiff being one - have had promotion to the PL recently because they make changes and try to get somewhere.

Yes Cardiff did get promoted in recent years. But managers like Warnock and McCarthy have a short shelve life before fans get bored of them and their tactics. 

I still wouldn;t want any of Warnock, McCarthy or Hughton here as Mowbray's replacement. 

[Mike E]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well they would need to be appoint firstly and I don't think any of them would have lasted here as long as Mowbray. Forest fans had so got fed up with Hughton and his tactics, Boro fans at Warnock plus Gav posted from a Boro supporter friend. 

Mowbray has gained the owners trust clearly and it's seem important to them 

Yes Cardiff did get promoted in recent years. But managers like Warnock and McCarthy have a short shelve life before fans get bored of them and their tactics. 

I still wouldn;t want any of Warnock, McCarthy or Hughton here as Mowbray's replacement. 

Fans opinions are irrelevant in Venky world though.

[roversfan99]

There is also a growing fascination with style of play based on patronising and flawed principles of what is boring and what isnt.

McCarthy and Hughton got sacked because their results werent very good, football is based on results, not categorising types of managers into pigeon holed ideas of how football should be played.

[speeeeeeedie]

On 06/11/2021 at 17:55, Blue blood said:

 

So there is a big question mark over whether these chaps have had their day but here's the thing: at least they had a day. All three have been massively more successful over their careers than TM.

McCarthy promotions with Wolves and Sunderland, managed an international team and had Ipswich punching above their weight. Houghton promotions with barcodes and Brighton who he also kept up. Warnock more promotions than hot dinners plus imo his best work keeping Rotherham up. All miles more successful than TM. Are they past it? Possibly - but all I think have shown they are better managers than TM will ever be. And if you had to appoint one of them for a club it wouldn't be TM. 

then there's the character side of things. After his latest comments I'd say Houghton and McCarthy are far better characters than TM - more integrity. Not the sole or most important factor in appointing a manager but my word it would be nice to have some integrity in the dugout. 

And here's another thing. When these managers have done badly they have been sacked by their clubs. TM has taken us on several similar runs and been kept in post. Would they have turned it round it they were so unsackable? I'm not so sure but at any other club TM would have been sacked several times over and labelled a failure. 

There may well be better managerial options out there. These guys may be past it. But on so many levels I'd say they are streets ahead of TM. 

To play devil's advocate. If the likes of those mentioned are good managers and not yet over the hill would they not benefit from the Venkys approach of giving them time? If they have the necessary talent they'll work their way out of it. 

After all Mowbray went from a super death spiral to 7th in a few short months 😁.

I also think that Warnock will take another job despite the story that he was going to retire next summer. He can't help himself.

[Wheelton Blue]

9 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

To play devil's advocate. If the likes of those mentioned are good managers and not yet over the hill would they not benefit from the Venkys approach of giving them time? If they have the necessary talent they'll work their way out of it. 

After all Mowbray went from a super death spiral to 7th in a few short months 😁.

I also think that Warnock will take another job despite the story that he was going to retire next summer. He can't help himself.

I reckon that Hughton would get us pretty close to promotion. Warnock and McCarthy are probably knocking on a bit too much.

[speeeeeeedie]

2 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

I reckon that Hughton would get us pretty close to promotion. Warnock and McCarthy are probably knocking on a bit too much.

I think that he would too. He can set up a back 4, which has been mind numbingly missing in the Mowbray years.

Warnock should retire. McCarthy should too.

Neither of them have anything to prove.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

There is also a growing fascination with style of play based on patronising and flawed principles of what is boring and what isnt.

McCarthy and Hughton got sacked because their results werent very good, football is based on results, not categorising types of managers into pigeon holed ideas of how football should be played.

well if Hughton and McCarthy tried to play abit more attacking football and different formation maybe they got better results meaning they wouldn't have been sacked. 

[Blue blood]

4 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

To play devil's advocate. If the likes of those mentioned are good managers and not yet over the hill would they not benefit from the Venkys approach of giving them time? If they have the necessary talent they'll work their way out of it. 

After all Mowbray went from a super death spiral to 7th in a few short months 😁.

I also think that Warnock will take another job despite the story that he was going to retire next summer. He can't help himself.

 

4 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

I reckon that Hughton would get us pretty close to promotion. Warnock and McCarthy are probably knocking on a bit too much.

Interesting thoughts chaps. Personally with the resources available last season I think all three would have got us into the playoffs. This season I'm less sure, especially since none are particularly famed for using youth. 

To answer your question @speeeeeeedie I think certainly a year or two ago if these managers had been afforded time they would have worked it out. No question about it to me (assuming Venkys didn't mess it up which is a big assumption.) Now though? Managers do have shelf lives. 

Look at Grayson. Went from promotion king to struggling in his last few jobs. Or Jose - top manager to more of a flop. Even Hughes ending at Stoke and Southampton stint weren't great. So yeah managers do have shelf lives. Wenger - another example of this. So a good manager not past his shelf life would turn things round. 

BIt if a kop out that! Question is have they passed their shelf life. Last season you wouldn't have said so. Cardiff looked strong. Boro improved massively after the Woodgate debacle the season before. Odd that after promising seasons last year it didn't work for either this year. 

[speeeeeeedie]

22 hours ago, Blue blood said:

 

Interesting thoughts chaps. Personally with the resources available last season I think all three would have got us into the playoffs. This season I'm less sure, especially since none are particularly famed for using youth. 

To answer your question @speeeeeeedie I think certainly a year or two ago if these managers had been afforded time they would have worked it out. No question about it to me (assuming Venkys didn't mess it up which is a big assumption.) Now though? Managers do have shelf lives. 

Look at Grayson. Went from promotion king to struggling in his last few jobs. Or Jose - top manager to more of a flop. Even Hughes ending at Stoke and Southampton stint weren't great. So yeah managers do have shelf lives. Wenger - another example of this. So a good manager not past his shelf life would turn things round. 

BIt if a kop out that! Question is have they passed their shelf life. Last season you wouldn't have said so. Cardiff looked strong. Boro improved massively after the Woodgate debacle the season before. Odd that after promising seasons last year it didn't work for either this year. 

There's the hard part; knowing when a manager is past it or not.

You mentioned Mourinho. A manager who was once excellent but has definitely lost his touch. Would his diminishing skills still be good enough to get Rovers promoted?

Hughes too. He is a nostalgia name thrown around on here as he was superb 15 years ago.

[Gone to seed]

35 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

There's the hard part; knowing when a manager is past it or not.

You mentioned Mourinho. A manager who was once excellent but has definitely lost his touch. Would his diminishing skills still be good enough to get Rovers promoted?

Hughes too. He is a nostalgia name thrown around on here as he was superb 15 years ago.

Oh, I think we know alright... 😉

[TheRoversReturn]

On 09/11/2021 at 21:45, roversfan99 said:

There is also a growing fascination with style of play based on patronising and flawed principles of what is boring and what isnt.

It's nothing new under the sun. We had it under Sam when many wanted him gone despite digging us out of a relegation dogfight and guiding us to tenth in his one full season here.

Many were happy when he was sacked. Many were happy with Kean initially, especially after we beat Liverpool. More entertaining football tended to be cited as the reason. 

[chaddyrovers]

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, El Tombro said:

 

Vincent Tan is basing this decision on the improved performances and attractive style during the last few matches. That never works out well! Reading between the lines, are Cardiff in financial trouble? It seems like a cheap option.

No surprised they gone for Morrison. Easy option and someone who will keep bring through their young players there since they are struggling financially. More cutbacks next season 

[DE.]

3 hours ago, El Tombro said:

 

Vincent Tan is basing this decision on the improved performances and attractive style during the last few matches. That never works out well! Reading between the lines, are Cardiff in financial trouble? It seems like a cheap option.

Somebody posted meeting notes from one of their fans forums where a person from the club said directly that there were financial issues.

[davulsukur]

4 hours ago, El Tombro said:

 

Vincent Tan is basing this decision on the improved performances and attractive style during the last few matches. That never works out well! Reading between the lines, are Cardiff in financial trouble? It seems like a cheap option.

Appointing him only till the end of the season is a smart move. These sort of appointments normally start well before fading quickly. 

Cardiff probably hoping he can gain enough points to avoid relegation and review in the summer. 

[islander200]

53 minutes ago, davulsukur said:

Appointing him only till the end of the season is a smart move. These sort of appointments normally start well before fading quickly. 

Cardiff probably hoping he can gain enough points to avoid relegation and review in the summer. 

Tan knows Mowbrays contract is ending and didnt want to pay compensation

[Cuppliance]

On 12/11/2021 at 18:57, davulsukur said:

Appointing him only till the end of the season is a smart move. These sort of appointments normally start well before fading quickly. 

Cardiff probably hoping he can gain enough points to avoid relegation and review in the summer. 

Not Likely for Cardiff to be in trouble this season. Derby already have their 21 points deduction and Reading are very likely to have 12 points deducted too. Leek eaters are lucky. They have had an awful season so far but may survive anyway due to two other teams having deductions.

[arbitro]

Hopefully there is some recourse for Wycombe in the whole Derby farce. The EFL have a lot to answer for in my view as Derbys misdemeanours are historical and could have been dealt with sooner.

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/derby-wycombe-bill-kirchner-takeover-6112331

[chaddyrovers]

Reading agree SIX point deduction in the Championship with the EFL... and could be hit with a further six points if the Royals breach spending rules again

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-10212587/Reading-agree-SIX-point-Championship-deduction-EFL.html