Steve Waggott

[JBiz]

10 minutes ago, tomphil said:

 So called Awful owners just shoved in another 8 million share conversion to under pin the club.

I know all the expenses of football but can never get my head around just where it ALL goes at this club.

It’s called wages.

The average since 2010 at this club seems to be spending £2 on wagers for every £1 that comes into the coffers.

[tomphil]

12 minutes ago, JBiz said:

It’s called wages.

The average since 2010 at this club seems to be spending £2 on wagers for every £1 that comes into the coffers.

The football operating budget and wage bill versus the overall wage bill.

The are grey areas imo and i'll never budge off that other than to say a certain level of operational losses seems to suit the parent company.

[Herbie6590]

2 hours ago, lraC said:

From what I am reading TV and advertising money, is far more important that attracting supporters to the games.

Maybe we should flatten the stands and ban fans and concentrate on getting everyone signed up to I Follow/ Rovers TV and market them to death. No need for safety certificates, stewards, maintenance to the ground, catering, office staff, ticketing costs etc and the players get used to playing in conditions like last year. 

All I can say is WTF.

TV is the single biggest contributor to income in the top two divisions. The question is how long TV would be interested in broadcasting if grounds were empty ? 
Well 2020/21 kind of proved that they can make it work, at least in the short-term. 

Be careful what you (humourously) suggest…😳

[Herbie6590]

5 hours ago, JBiz said:

 

Skins with game brands won’t work IMO, it would only have pull locally (as our name isn’t Barcelona / PSG / Man City) and can’t see brands like FN, Fifa etc bothering due to limited appeal.

 

I attended a Zoom call last week at which some marketing creatives talked about this & the numbers they shared (not in the public domain) regarding engagement were staggering.

 

https://www.campaignlive.com/article/stevenage-challenge-best-bk-campaign-cannes/1720747

 

Stevenage shirts were being sold globally as kids everywhere attempted the Stevenage Challenge & wanted to get them to Champions League. On social media, images of Messi & Ronaldo in Stevenage shirts in the FIFA game proliferated. The club sold out of merchandise…

It was the most intelligent, stimulating and thought-provoking presentation I have attended in years.

[arbitro]

33 minutes ago, tomphil said:

The football operating budget and wage bill versus the overall wage bill.

The are grey areas imo and i'll never budge off that other than to say a certain level of operational losses seems to suit the parent company.

I'm no finance expert but what about the Armstrong money and the sale of the STC. I thought they were both to cover the shortfall and avoid falling foul of P&S.

Has anyone any idea why?

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, Herbie6590 said:

I attended a Zoom call last week at which some marketing creatives talked about this & the numbers they shared (not in the public domain) regarding engagement were staggering.

 

https://www.campaignlive.com/article/stevenage-challenge-best-bk-campaign-cannes/1720747

 

Stevenage shirts were being sold globally as kids everywhere attempted the Stevenage Challenge & wanted to get them to Champions League. On social media, images of Messi & Ronaldo in Stevenage shirts in the FIFA game proliferated. The club sold out of merchandise…

It was the most intelligent, stimulating and thought-provoking presentation I have attended in years.

It all comes down to Ultimate team on fifa - Burger King on here shirt instantly makes them a choice for that generation.

Absolutely agree about the potential for something similar to this.

[JBiz]

2 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I'm no finance expert but what about the Armstrong money and the sale of the STC. I thought they were both to cover the shortfall and avoid falling foul of P&S.

Has anyone any idea why?

Neither of those are on last years accounts so should be after April 2022

[Herbie6590]

Just now, arbitro said:

I'm no finance expert but what about the Armstrong money and the sale of the STC. I thought they were both to cover the shortfall and avoid falling foul of P&S.

Has anyone any idea why?

We mentioned in the video that the sale of Armstrong came after the 2021 financial year end & so will show in the June 2022 accounts. Because of this the sale of the STC was used as a sort of “bridging finance” mechanism to try avoid June 21 figures taking us outside FFP. 

Of course the June 21 accounts aren’t out yet so the impact is as yet unknown.

[arbitro]

13 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

We mentioned in the video that the sale of Armstrong came after the 2021 financial year end & so will show in the June 2022 accounts. Because of this the sale of the STC was used as a sort of “bridging finance” mechanism to try avoid June 21 figures taking us outside FFP. 

Of course the June 21 accounts aren’t out yet so the impact is as yet unknown.

Thanks Ian. In my little world surely the £16m for the STC would be in the bank for Rovers now as the sale went through some time ago. Wouldn't it? Or do you think the payment would be held back.

[Herbie6590]

56 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Thanks Ian. In my little world surely the £16m for the STC would be in the bank for Rovers now as the sale went through some time ago. Wouldn't it? Or do you think the payment would be held back.

Very much in the bank cash wise & in the books before 30/6/21 to enable the most favourable FFP calculations.

[Herbie6590]

Audio version available to enable listening whist you drive/walk the dog/Christmas shop/queue for your jab etc...

 

https://www.brfcs.com/magazine/podcasts/ep-146-steve-waggott's-year-end-appraisal/4

 

[tomphil]

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

I'm no finance expert but what about the Armstrong money and the sale of the STC. I thought they were both to cover the shortfall and avoid falling foul of P&S.

Has anyone any idea why?

I have a few assumptions on that but someone who posts a lot about finance elsewhere and who iv'e butted heads with offered an alternate view. Based on the opinion it was just an accounting move to cover extra money already put in during the pandemic season.  Basically giving Venkys some personal security for the extra money which might have been personal rather than the usual VH group company mula. So there was no one off 16 million quid injection from the sale, rather just money already drip fed in and swallowed up.

Covers other bases as well seeing as they could now do what they want with that when they start the now inevitable training ground/academy merry go round. It does seem more like an external loan seeing as they'll be allegedly charging for it annually via a lease fee or something.

Like i always say to jbizz though there is no proof either way in regards to Rovers wage bill as unless we see a breakdown of accounts in detail nobody knows.  It appears all the banking is done in India so all Rovers money flows in and out of an account over there.  Nobody sees what goes where everything in public is just paper number crunching to square things off and keep it all legal and above board.

Corporate accounting has more layers than the earths crust and in most cases with huge successful corporations it's made to work how they want it to.

I find it hilarious that a lot seem to think Venkys finance people and the head honcho just ignore the club then send a direct debit over every month out of pure generosity ...or guilt.

 

[SuperBrfc]

21 hours ago, Ulrich said:

Bloody hell £20 pocket money spent on a graphic for a game? I would never have saved up 20 weeks pocket money and wasted it on a 'skin' hahaha.

It sounds mad Ulrich, but that is what I did years ago. I bought a Rovers 'skin' for my PS3 for £20 to the bemusement of my non Rovers supporting friends. It was available from the club shop and looked good, I thought. It would have been around 2010ish. I don't know how many were sold, but the club tried something along the gaming line back then, even though it was at a basic level. There is the potential to advance much further these days particularly with game streamers being popular on Twitch/YouTube etc.

I can see why getting Rovers graphics or skins in computer/mobile games might appeal to some kids today. I think I would have found the idea cool myself back when I was a kid, but wouldn't have opted for a graphic over going to Ewood, if asked to choose.

The Stevenage story is brilliant and shows the opportunities that are out there. I found Mark Goldbridge's (United fan YouTuber/occasional gamer) recent rant about getting thrashed by Rovers on Fifa hilarious. "Bloody Blackburn, they are playing us off the park, what's going on?" and "who the heck is Brereton Diaz, who is he?". That kind of stuff might seem small but it does bring attention our way.

If Diaz does fire us back to the Prem, the club has got to be all over that. There are so many ways we can go with that kind of a story, not just in a digital sense.

[J*B]

34 minutes ago, SuperBrfc said:

It sounds mad Ulrich, but that is what I did years ago. I bought a Rovers 'skin' for my PS3 for £20 to the bemusement of my non Rovers supporting friends. It was available from the club shop and looked good, I thought. It would have been around 2010ish. I don't know how many were sold, but the club tried something along the gaming line back then, even though it was at a basic level. There is the potential to advance much further these days particularly with game streamers being popular on Twitch/YouTube etc.

I can see why getting Rovers graphics or skins in computer/mobile games might appeal to some kids today. I think I would have found the idea cool myself back when I was a kid, but wouldn't have opted for a graphic over going to Ewood, if asked to choose.

The Stevenage story is brilliant and shows the opportunities that are out there. I found Mark Goldbridge's (United fan YouTuber/occasional gamer) recent rant about getting thrashed by Rovers on Fifa hilarious. "Bloody Blackburn, they are playing us off the park, what's going on?" and "who the heck is Brereton Diaz, who is he?". That kind of stuff might seem small but it does bring attention our way.

If Diaz does fire us back to the Prem, the club has got to be all over that. There are so many ways we can go with that kind of a story, not just in a digital sense.

NFTs will take over in the next 5-10 years and - much like Crypto - there’s serious money to be made. There’s also tonnes of con artists already swarming all over it. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

4 hours ago, tomphil said:

I have a few assumptions on that but someone who posts a lot about finance elsewhere and who iv'e butted heads with offered an alternate view. Based on the opinion it was just an accounting move to cover extra money already put in during the pandemic season.  Basically giving Venkys some personal security for the extra money which might have been personal rather than the usual VH group company mula. So there was no one off 16 million quid injection from the sale, rather just money already drip fed in and swallowed up.

Covers other bases as well seeing as they could now do what they want with that when they start the now inevitable training ground/academy merry go round. It does seem more like an external loan seeing as they'll be allegedly charging for it annually via a lease fee or something.

Like i always say to jbizz though there is no proof either way in regards to Rovers wage bill as unless we see a breakdown of accounts in detail nobody knows.  It appears all the banking is done in India so all Rovers money flows in and out of an account over there.  Nobody sees what goes where everything in public is just paper number crunching to square things off and keep it all legal and above board.

Corporate accounting has more layers than the earths crust and in most cases with huge successful corporations it's made to work how they want it to.

I find it hilarious that a lot seem to think Venkys finance people and the head honcho just ignore the club then send a direct debit over every month out of pure generosity ...or guilt.

 

“Like i always say to jbizz though there is no proof either way in regards to Rovers wage bill as unless we see a breakdown of accounts in detail nobody knows.”

I would say the single most reliable number we know about Rovers is the wage bill in the accounts. All the auditors (not based in India) have to do is tally it to salary payments made to staff. Plus tax/NI are directly derived from it.

[StubbsUK]

On 16/12/2021 at 02:35, Silas said:

Just heard on radio today that Nike has bought an NFT company because they are planning on expanding to Zuckerberg's crazy metaverse. 

So, let me get this straight, the kids are going to be asking for money to buy trainers that are never going on their feet because they don't exist. 🤦‍♂️

and now this ... 

 

[Bad Boy]

An NFT company are looking to buy Bradford City.

[JacknOry]

6 hours ago, StubbsUK said:

and now this ... 

 

That branding is shit.

[Neal]

21 hours ago, J*B said:

NFTs will take over in the next 5-10 years and - much like Crypto - there’s serious money to be made. There’s also tonnes of con artists already swarming all over it. 

a fellow crypto investor... it's been a tough few weeks.

[perthblue02]

On 17/12/2021 at 05:44, J*B said:

NFTs will take over in the next 5-10 years and - much like Crypto - there’s serious money to be made. There’s also tonnes of con artists already swarming all over it. 

Think I will give Venkoin a miss when it launches 🙂

"Venkoin, trust us with your investment like its Jack Walkers legacy"

[Upside Down]

On 17/12/2021 at 04:28, Herbie6590 said:

Audio version available to enable listening whist you drive/walk the dog/Christmas shop/queue for your jab etc...

 

https://www.brfcs.com/magazine/podcasts/ep-146-steve-waggott's-year-end-appraisal/4

 

Although he has definitely inherited a lot of issues and has managed to stave off sanctions from breaching P&S regulations, his overall performance is really quite poor.

One of the things these financial assessments of Rovers shows is the shockingly low amount of revenue the club actually generates. I would still contend that we are a reasonably big club for this division, yet we are in the bottom three when it comes to revenue. There needs to be a programme implicated to totally reverse this. It should be the number one concern of the board as more revenue will naturally help with falling foul of P&S. I mean it's called profit and sustainability for a reason.

As the both of you mentioned, attendances have a direct affect on the desirability of putting us on the telly. No one is going to want to tune in to watch a game where the ground isn't even a third full with all the atmosphere of a mausoleum. A huge part of the appeal of watching a match on TV is that it gives you the feeling of being a part of the atmosphere without actually being there. We should be pulling out all the stops to fill the ground and get Ewood pumping.

Plenty of Other clubs are in the same position as us yet they seem to be able to manage far far better.

The commercial side is also a disappointment. I seem to remember many moons ago that they did used to sell retro style rovers shirts, they were like a rugby style I think. With the way the modern shirts are designed now (for athletes to run around, not fat bastards like us to stand on the terraces guzzling pints and pies) there is a definite opportunity to generate some cash flow. I know I would certainly be up for a late 60s style shirt. That is of course just one small area but it's a microcosm of how the rest of the operation is run.

The state of Ewood Park is another massive concern. There needs to be immediate action taken to resolve this. It surely cannot be that expensive to organise cleaning the place up and undertaking general maintenance.

A football club is in the business of repeat business. Waggot seems to totally miss this point as instead of being proactive in generating cash flow he has instead opted for a program of austerity. Let's take attendances as an example. Rather than try and incentivise more people to come down to watch the games he has instead decided to fleece the solid hard core of supporters that will buy a season ticket no matter what. Rather than opting for a strategy of charging more people less he has decided to charge less people more. Engaging in a war of attrition against the weak and disenfranchised may work really well for wealthy politicians and their rich chums but for the CEO of a football club to wage that war against its own fans is absolute madness. It shows a clear lack of understanding of the basics of how a capitalist economic system works.

 

Overall he has been dealt a bit of a shit hand but we are not alone in this. I think his performance and strategies of dealing with the many issues we have are austere, defeatist and half assed. This is the exact opposite of what we need. It certainly could be worse and I appreciate that his hands are tied somewhat, but it could be a lot lot better.

My grade: D

[lraC]

5 hours ago, Upside Down said:

Although he has definitely inherited a lot of issues and has managed to stave off sanctions from breaching P&S regulations, his overall performance is really quite poor.

One of the things these financial assessments of Rovers shows is the shockingly low amount of revenue the club actually generates. I would still contend that we are a reasonably big club for this division, yet we are in the bottom three when it comes to revenue. There needs to be a programme implicated to totally reverse this. It should be the number one concern of the board as more revenue will naturally help with falling foul of P&S. I mean it's called profit and sustainability for a reason.

As the both of you mentioned, attendances have a direct affect on the desirability of putting us on the telly. No one is going to want to tune in to watch a game where the ground isn't even a third full with all the atmosphere of a mausoleum. A huge part of the appeal of watching a match on TV is that it gives you the feeling of being a part of the atmosphere without actually being there. We should be pulling out all the stops to fill the ground and get Ewood pumping.

Plenty of Other clubs are in the same position as us yet they seem to be able to manage far far better.

The commercial side is also a disappointment. I seem to remember many moons ago that they did used to sell retro style rovers shirts, they were like a rugby style I think. With the way the modern shirts are designed now (for athletes to run around, not fat bastards like us to stand on the terraces guzzling pints and pies) there is a definite opportunity to generate some cash flow. I know I would certainly be up for a late 60s style shirt. That is of course just one small area but it's a microcosm of how the rest of the operation is run.

The state of Ewood Park is another massive concern. There needs to be immediate action taken to resolve this. It surely cannot be that expensive to organise cleaning the place up and undertaking general maintenance.

A football club is in the business of repeat business. Waggot seems to totally miss this point as instead of being proactive in generating cash flow he has instead opted for a program of austerity. Let's take attendances as an example. Rather than try and incentivise more people to come down to watch the games he has instead decided to fleece the solid hard core of supporters that will buy a season ticket no matter what. Rather than opting for a strategy of charging more people less he has decided to charge less people more. Engaging in a war of attrition against the weak and disenfranchised may work really well for wealthy politicians and their rich chums but for the CEO of a football club to wage that war against its own fans is absolute madness. It shows a clear lack of understanding of the basics of how a capitalist economic system works.

 

Overall he has been dealt a bit of a shit hand but we are not alone in this. I think his performance and strategies of dealing with the many issues we have are austere, defeatist and half assed. This is the exact opposite of what we need. It certainly could be worse and I appreciate that his hands are tied somewhat, but it could be a lot lot better.

My grade: D

Some pictures emerged yesterday of some awful neglect, with regards to the upkeep and maintenance of the riverside. The club should already be aware of it, as it is their responsibility to ensure the ground is kept safe, clean and tidy. These pictures shows total neglect in that respect. 
 

Hopefully something will be done about it, as this sort of thing is unacceptable.

[lraC]

1 hour ago, Upside Down said:

It really shows what a load of bollocks it is when people say that there is all this money being invested. As we all know that sort of stuff is not taken into account when P&S comes in to play. 

Exactly and calls into question yet again, where the priorities lie. 

[lraC]

[Gav]

On 16/12/2021 at 21:44, J*B said:

NFTs will take over in the next 5-10 years and - much like Crypto - there’s serious money to be made. There’s also tonnes of con artists already swarming all over it. 

Biggest con on the internet at the moment NFT's, stay well clear, they have zero real life value.

Crypto on the other hand has some real life benefits, we should create a thread on the other side of the forum to discuss.