England

[speeeeeeedie]

The usual BRFCS negativity toward England is on show again. Barely any comments at all leading up to the game but a good few pages of the sky is falling since kick off. Comments such as sack Southgate, waste of an evening, and we'll be on the first plane home are par for the course after a defeat. 

The game wasn't good. Turgid, unimaginative football. Southgate's England have thrived on scoring from set pieces, hopefully he's got a lot of plans up his sleeve for Qatar or on current form it's curtains.

Southgate needs to pick his formation and stick to it. He has done so much to improve England, including back to his u-21/technical director days, but he needs to play players in their best position. Saka isn't a wing back. Walker isn't the three in a back 3, TAA isn't a midfielder, Trippier can play left back, but it's not his desired spot. 

World Cup's and Euro's are won by slight margins. Controlling the play helps, yet England seemingly are unable. England don't produce the type of player that can do it. Historically the national team's strengths have been a decent keeper, solid defenders, and a goalscorer. Central midfield - where the game is dictated - hasn't been an area of strength. My era (1980's on) has seen some very good midfielders, yet none of them were the metronome that international football needs. Jorginho, Veratti, Kroos, Modric, Busquets, Xavi, Makelele, Deschamps, Pirlo, Gilberto Silva, all won major championships, None of them were goalscorers, but were integral to their team's success. Without a player like this Southgate needs to do something different.

I'll go with the glass of half full and Southgate will learn from the result and move forward.

[Mattyblue]

The thing is most club fans pay absolutely no attention to their international side for months on end until the game is right there on the screen, so they just comment on what they see. So if it’s a load of ‘turgid, unimaginative’ shite (to coin a phrase) then that’s what they’ll remark. Then they forget about it until the next one.

It certainly isn’t a ‘negative brfcs’ phenomenon…

 

[Herbie6590]

9 hours ago, Cherry Blue said:

Game v Germany is on C4 too. Speaks volumes! Not even ITV want to show it.

Interviews after game must surely feature in a "what happens next?".

Answer: more adverts.

C4 won the contract for England games earlier this year.

[Darrenbot]

32 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

The thing is most club fans pay absolutely no attention to their international side for months on end until the game is right there on the screen, so they just comment on what they see. So if it’s a load of ‘turgid, unimaginative’ shite (to coin a phrase) then that’s what they’ll remark. Then they forget about it until the next one.

It certainly isn’t a ‘negative brfcs’ phenomenon…

 

Spot on here,if the team plays shit are we supposed to say well they'll do better next time.It's not being negative it's being realistic.

[K-Hod]

4 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

The usual BRFCS negativity toward England is on show again. Barely any comments at all leading up to the game but a good few pages of the sky is falling since kick off. Comments such as sack Southgate, waste of an evening, and we'll be on the first plane home are par for the course after a defeat. 

The game wasn't good. Turgid, unimaginative football. Southgate's England have thrived on scoring from set pieces, hopefully he's got a lot of plans up his sleeve for Qatar or on current form it's curtains.

Southgate needs to pick his formation and stick to it. He has done so much to improve England, including back to his u-21/technical director days, but he needs to play players in their best position. Saka isn't a wing back. Walker isn't the three in a back 3, TAA isn't a midfielder, Trippier can play left back, but it's not his desired spot. 

World Cup's and Euro's are won by slight margins. Controlling the play helps, yet England seemingly are unable. England don't produce the type of player that can do it. Historically the national team's strengths have been a decent keeper, solid defenders, and a goalscorer. Central midfield - where the game is dictated - hasn't been an area of strength. My era (1980's on) has seen some very good midfielders, yet none of them were the metronome that international football needs. Jorginho, Veratti, Kroos, Modric, Busquets, Xavi, Makelele, Deschamps, Pirlo, Gilberto Silva, all won major championships, None of them were goalscorers, but were integral to their team's success. Without a player like this Southgate needs to do something different.

I'll go with the glass of half full and Southgate will learn from the result and move forward.

Which you then go on to agree with in your first paragraph, though?

He’s playing players out of position, players out of form that aren’t playing at club level and just not progressing at all.

For all the anti Sterling talk- he bagged three at the last tournament (only one behind Kane) and is our best goal threat after Kane. He’s always the first one on the chopping block for fans, it’s bizarre.
Since the Euros final, for me we’ve been going backwards and IMO, Southgate has run his course. 
 

[RoverDom]

It's certainly no surprise to anyone that BRFCS is one of the most negative football forums out there? If a player misplaces a pass he's written off and Rovers relegated to conference North. 

 

England are in a rough patch but in international football you judge the team on how they perform at tournaments. This squad and manager have out performed any in my lifetime and the counter arguments to that are 

1. Look at the players he's had at his disposal - on paper I'd have the euro 04 squad with maybe Kane being the only one in contention to break into the squad. 

2. Look at the runs he's had - we had to get past Germany in the knockouts rather than Iceland in 2016

The quality of player we have available has surely been overhyped as well and as someone else said Gareth does well at making the whole better than the sum of its parts. Half the squad get pillared week in week out for their club by English press and fans, yet are suddenly considered world class and expected to walk every tournament going when on international duty 

[RoverDom]

5 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Since the Euros final, for me we’ve been going backwards and IMO, Southgate has run his course. 

The majority of the squad had a shocking season for their club after the Euros final. Southgate cant carry the blame for that. Faultless? No. Time for a change? No. 

I would have waited till after this WC to give him a new contract though

[K-Hod]

Just now, RoverDom said:

It's certainly no surprise to anyone that BRFCS is one of the most negative football forums out there? If a player misplaces a pass he's written off and Rovers relegated to conference North. 

 

England are in a rough patch but in international football you judge the team on how they perform at tournaments. This squad and manager have out performed any in my lifetime and the counter arguments to that are 

1. Look at the players he's had at his disposal - on paper I'd have the euro 04 squad with maybe Kane being the only one in contention to break into the squad. 

2. Look at the runs he's had - we had to get past Germany in the knockouts rather than Iceland in 2016

The quality of player we have available has surely been overhyped as well and as someone else said Gareth does well at making the whole better than the sum of its parts. Half the squad get pillared week in week out for their club by English press and fans, yet are suddenly considered world class and expected to walk every tournament going when on international duty 

It really isn’t. I don’t like this narrative either. Some posters are probably are too negative, some probably aren’t negative enough. It is what it is.

[K-Hod]

3 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

The majority of the squad had a shocking season for their club after the Euros final. Southgate cant carry the blame for that. Faultless? No. Time for a change? No. 

I would have waited till after this WC to give him a new contract though

I think we can all remember the final- England were getting absolutely mullered and Southgate wouldn’t make a change. 
Then Italy finally scored and then went on to win. It was so obvious what was going to happen and he wouldn’t change it.

I’m not saying all English players would have been incredibly better for their clubs after that, but they wouldn’t have had the hangover of the euros with a win either!

[Mattyblue]

If you think brfcs is a uniquely ‘negative’ place, you mustn’t spend much time on other forums.

They are *all* like this.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

The thing is most club fans pay absolutely no attention to their international side for months on end until the game is right there on the screen, so they just comment on what they see. So if it’s a load of ‘turgid, unimaginative’ shite (to coin a phrase) then that’s what they’ll remark. Then they forget about it until the next one.

It certainly isn’t a ‘negative brfcs’ phenomenon…

 

Go on any other clubs message board and they’ll be saying exactly the same. I’m sorry but I’m too long in the tooth for this” Kings New Clothes “ malarkey. If I’ve just wasted two hours of my life watching a rubbish performance I’ll say so. That goes for Rovers equally. 
We can’t play this walking football. As soon as we upped the tempo late on we looked a better team all together.

[DE.]

36 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

If you think brfcs is a uniquely ‘negative’ place, you mustn’t spend much time on other forums.

They are *all* like this.

Correct, go to literally any other football forum and it's exactly the same if not worse. It's cute that people think it's a phenomenom specific to this forum but the reality is that fans across the footballing sphere are made up of the same types. Nobody is unique in playing devil's advocate, there's a version of this type of poster on practically every remaining active forum. As humans I'm afraid we aren't as unique as we like to think.

[Mattyblue]

Forums will always contain the collection of people we have on here. They are full of folk that spend their days banging on about the minutiae of their club, their car, their obscure hobby.

[SuperBrfc]

It was only yesterday that I mentioned visiting the Preston forum and the posts looking very familiar. Similar arguments and characters as can be found on here. Certain fans saying "enough of this shit, person x has to go" followed by others defending person x and saying person y is to blame. Arguments back and forth about ambition, mediocrity and entitlement.

A few on there who communicate with Ridsdale via text, email or in person were being accused of backing anything he says or does without question. Some who were defending club policy or Hemmings' statement were being accused of being Ridsdale himself posting on the forum. It's not just on here that all of the above are found.

[roverandout]

2 hours ago, RoverDom said:

It's certainly no surprise to anyone that BRFCS is one of the most negative football forums out there? If a player misplaces a pass he's written off and Rovers relegated to conference North. 

 

England are in a rough patch but in international football you judge the team on how they perform at tournaments. This squad and manager have out performed any in my lifetime and the counter arguments to that are 

1. Look at the players he's had at his disposal - on paper I'd have the euro 04 squad with maybe Kane being the only one in contention to break into the squad. 

2. Look at the runs he's had - we had to get past Germany in the knockouts rather than Iceland in 2016

The quality of player we have available has surely been overhyped as well and as someone else said Gareth does well at making the whole better than the sum of its parts. Half the squad get pillared week in week out for their club by English press and fans, yet are suddenly considered world class and expected to walk every tournament going when on international duty 

I don't agree about the quality of the squad.  We have far more strength in depth than 04'06

[RoverDom]

7 minutes ago, roverandout said:

I don't agree about the quality of the squad.  We have far more strength in depth than 04'06

Depth absolutely, strength no.

Starting XI player for player 04 squad is significantly better

[roverandout]

10 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Depth absolutely, strength no.

Starting XI player for player 04 squad is significantly better

I would say current keeper is far better. Kane is better than Owen or Rooney.  Rightback options much better. We had a world class team back then but they didn't have the passion to play for England like these players do

[RoverDom]

9 minutes ago, roverandout said:

I would say current keeper is far better. Kane is better than Owen or Rooney.  Rightback options much better. We had a world class team back then but they didn't have the passion to play for England like these players do

Right back yes and keeper is probably better. Kane vs Owen / Rooney in their prime - I'd take Owen at his best and I'd take and 18-20 year old Rooney over Kane. 

[roverandout]

9 minutes ago, RoverDom said:

Right back yes and keeper is probably better. Kane vs Owen / Rooney in their prime - I'd take Owen at his best and I'd take and 18-20 year old Rooney over Kane. 

Kane might not be as pleasing on the eye but hes a proven tournament scorer unlike Owen or Rooney 

[RoverDom]

16 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Kane might not be as pleasing on the eye but hes a proven tournament scorer unlike Owen or Rooney 

I think this is my point, I'd take Owen and Rooney over Kane (just) - but Kane has outperformed both by a long stretch on the international stage. Same with most of the 11, I'd take 04 over the current squad (mostly) on paper but the current crop have outperformed 04 by a mile and Gareth has to take credit for that. 

[roverstdt]

12 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I would say most of those players are in form for their clubs. 

How Mount no goals or assist, Chilwell doesn't even play, Grealish done nothing this season and he openly admited he hasn't performed, Dier agreed

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

18 minutes ago, roverstdt said:

How Mount no goals or assist, Chilwell doesn't even play, Grealish done nothing this season and he openly admited he hasn't performed, Dier agreed

I was disapointed with Grealish last night.All he seems to do is wander about with the ball looking to get fouled.

[roverandout]

8 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I was disapointed with Grealish last night.All he seems to do is wander about with the ball looking to get fouled.

I thought he did more in 20 minutes than sterling or foden did in 90

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

14 minutes ago, roverandout said:

I thought he did more in 20 minutes than sterling or foden did in 90

He got on the ball a lot more but nothing came of it. At least he went looking for work. Foden never came out at half time for me. Sterling has learnt nothing about football since he was 17.

[RoverDom]

I'm not sure I get the Grealish hype. I think he'll be one who's turning out for everton in 3 years time after a disappointing stint with City.