England

[Giant]

3 minutes ago, roverandout said:

What a pathetic post.  The st George's flag is our national flag first off. Every country has its fair share of yobs. The Hungarians, Bulgarians chanting racist monkey noises at Black players.  Racism is rife in Italian football.  So there's a few English fans who can't behave themselves, there's also alot that do. 

I was just pointing out that yobbish behaviour by England fans seems to coincide with the demise of the Union Jack as England’s flag, and it’s replacement with the cross of St. George, the  preferred emblem of the far right of English politics. No sign of any such flags before the BNP, National Front, UKIP etc reread their ugly heads.

[Mattyblue]

That’s just not at all accurate. It was Union Jack draped yobs in the 70s/80s that caused real carnage across Europe, many with actual NF affiliations. Indeed, it was that bad in Italia 90, England were based on an island (Sardinia) for the group stage, to keep the hooligans away from the mainland.

It has been since Euro 96 and the emergence of the St George’s flag clad fan (not that the flag itself has made any difference either way, just a change in football fandom since the mid 90s; more families, all seater stadiums etc) that has seen disorder drop markedly (miles before any emergence of UKIP etc), we now just see the small time, pathetic behaviour from a minority, as thousands of families and proper fans now also travel - that was certainly not the case in the Union Jack clad 80s.

Think you need to do a bit of research into the 1980s before trying to shoehorn in fantasy modern day neo-Nazi stuff. The simple explanation is there’s a lot of young, coked up, pissed up dickheads travelling.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Mattyblue

[roversfan99]

32 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Look at the failure under Capello and Eriksson given the salary they were paid and how we played in the tournaments with them at the helm. mostly dire. 

Yes McClaren and Taylor failed but Sir Bobby Robson, Terry Venables and Gareth Southgate have produced our best tournaments in the last 37 years. 

I also believe that the England football manager should be English. If you fine but I won't be changing my opinion on it

You didn't need to use warped logic to justify the main opinion that is now clear, that you want an English manager.

My opinion is that I don't give a shit on the nationality. Out of interest, say we won a tournament, which will not happen under Southgate that is for sure. But if we did, would it be less enjoyable to you if the manager wasn't English?

25 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

If you look back actually at what I posted I said most of them were in form for their clubs. 

Pickford, Tripper, Stones, Dier, Kane, Foden, Rice, Bellingham all in form. Chilwell on his way back from injury and how best left back imo. Mount and Grealish I want in my team for Creativity 

Mount and Grealish, creative?

[Giant]

Fair enough Matty, but I can’t lose the image of far right politics and the flag of St. George. 

[Mattyblue]

Then that’s a shame you feel that way as it’s our national flag and has been for not far off a thousand years.

Edited September 24, 2022 by Mattyblue

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You didn't need to use warped logic to justify the main opinion that is now clear, that you want an English manager.

My opinion is that I don't give a shit on the nationality. Out of interest, say we won a tournament, which will not happen under Southgate that is for sure. But if we did, would it be less enjoyable to you if the manager wasn't English?

I always maintained that England football manager should be English, and I had that opinion for over 20 years. 

Nothing is for sure; I would say Southgate will have England playing better when the world cup starts. 

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Mount and Grealish, creative?

Yes. I have named my England team and how I would line up for the world cup first game. Also, I am not surprised by any comments you have on Mount cos you have never rated him

[Upside Down]

In the words of George Carlin:

I believe that flags are symbols, and I'll leave symbols to the symbol minded.

[roverandout]

8 hours ago, DeeCee said:

Scholes?

Scholes was criminally wasted

[Mashed Potatoes]

7 hours ago, roverandout said:

Scholes was criminally wasted

I think with Scholes part of the problem was that he was an asthmatic and the very hot conditions in which tournaments are played worked against him.

[Mattyblue]

Or constantly playing him wide to accommodate the Lampard/Gerrard combo that never worked.

[roverandout]

Southgate Says toney unlikely to play tomorrow.  Wtf is the point in calling him up? We are relegated.  Nothing to play for.  Just try out a few squad players. 

Also southgate's baffling quote

'If we want to play four at the back there's a risk because we'd be playing a right-footer on the left and then we'd be criticised for having the wrong balance.’’

 

hey why not play Shaw or chilwell at leftback.  Genius 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, roverandout said:

Southgate Says toney unlikely to play tomorrow.  Wtf is the point in calling him up? We are relegated.  Nothing to play for.  Just try out a few squad players. 

Also southgate's baffling quote

'If we want to play four at the back there's a risk because we'd be playing a right-footer on the left and then we'd be criticised for having the wrong balance.’’

 

hey why not play Shaw or chilwell at leftback.  Genius 

It’s really sad that we have so called international players that can only play on one side of the pitch. Keith Newton played right back and left back for England without a problem.

[Mattyblue]

So what if you are criticised? It’s a dead rubber. You’re the manager you play the personnel/system you think will suit the players you have  and may give you other options in a tournament.

What pathetically weak management.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Mattyblue

[Armchair supporter supremo]

Southgate is just pathetic and the whole England setup from top to bottom is sheeeiiiiiiite, has been since Venables left.

English players are molly coddled media minded wet lettuces first footballers second.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Armchair supporter supremo

[simongarnerisgod]

southgate is a gold plated mowbray,obsessed with his own tactical prowess (which is in mind)he`ll start blaming the players next,unbelievable we have the best bunch of forwards iv`e ever seen and we can`t create chances because the manager is`nt good enough to get them to play together

[roverandout]

Hes becoming Mowbray in that his armour is coming off. Now he's open to criticism he's flailing.  He got stroppy with fay carruthers on TalkSport on Friday night with whome he's usually got a good relationship 

[AllRoverAsia]

8 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Or constantly playing him wide to accommodate the Lampard/Gerrard combo that never worked.

And that is exactly why Scholes bailed out, knowing that the L/G combo was the managers preferred CM set up despite it never fulfilling its promise whilst he, Scholes, was shunted out wide to a position not suited to someone who at the time was one of the very best CMs in world football.

It should have been Scholes plus one of L or G.

Mind you the manager had other things on his mind or probably sitting on his face.

[roversfan99]

It is incredible how months on and in irrelevant threads, everything comes down to Mowbray!

It isnt a dead rubber as it is the last warm up before the World Cup, so it should be a rubber stamp of an already working plan. As it is, Southgate's tactics have led to us being continiously unable to score from open play as has been the situation for years under him, and now not defensively solid with out of form and lacking in general quality players repeatedly selected. Nobody could name more than half of the 11 in the first game with any confidence in accuracy.

[Mattyblue]

It is a dead rubber NL wise. So GS can’t hide behind an excuse like ‘I can’t try x, y or z because we need Nations League points’.

If he wants to try something, try it. On the other hand if you think it’s too close to the tournament to experiment, fine, say that. But don’t come out with weak stuff like ‘well, we’d just get criticised if I try it’.

Edited September 25, 2022 by Mattyblue

[joey_big_nose]

12 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Or constantly playing him wide to accommodate the Lampard/Gerrard combo that never worked.

Yeah - 2004 had a great set of attacking players, but none of them wanted to play wide. Scholes, Gerard, Lampard all wanted to play as attacking centre mids breaking in the box, Rooney loved dropping off into the same sort of number 10 space. We had no left sided midfielders at all, Beckham on the right was hardly a winger either. He liked to drift centrally or play early balls in rather than getting to the by-line. And because we had to fit that lot of attacking players in the team we then ended up having no holding midfielder either.

All a recipe for team that didn't really work in terms of balance and shape. 

If you gave me a choice between the midfield and strikers of 2004 or 2022 while clearly 2004 had the better individuals, I would be tempted to go for the 2022 set. I know that sounds ridiculous on the run we're on, but tbh I think part of the reason we've done well at 2018 and 2021 is that we've been able to build a team with the right balance, not just an all star team of big names who don't fit together at all.

That Southgate hasn't managed to find the right fluid setup currently when he's got solid or exceptional players in every position on the pitch is very concerning. Got one game tomorrow to get it right.

[joey_big_nose]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

It is incredible how months on and in irrelevant threads, everything comes down to Mowbray!

It isnt a dead rubber as it is the last warm up before the World Cup, so it should be a rubber stamp of an already working plan. As it is, Southgate's tactics have led to us being continiously unable to score from open play as has been the situation for years under him, and now not defensively solid with out of form and lacking in general quality players repeatedly selected. Nobody could name more than half of the 11 in the first game with any confidence in accuracy.

I'd put my money that first game the following nine will defo start fit. Southgate is a creature of habit...

Pickford, Walker, Stones, James, Rice, Bellingham, Sterling, Foden, Kane

Maguire would have been an absolute shoo-in but things going so badly for him can see him being dropped (but who for?). And left wing back will be a toss-up between Shaw and Chilwell (as there aren't any other options). 

Can't really see how it would be much different to the above really. There's only one game prior to opening of WC, and while someone like Toney, Grealish, Saka or Abraham could have an absolute blinder tomorrow it's unlikley to drastically change things in terms of starting lineup. 

For me anyway it's not really the personnel that's the issue. Lots of good players. It's how they are being setup and used.

[roverandout]

Watched France tonight.  They're having the same problems as us. Great options everywhere albeit they have better strength in depth but they didn't look like they had any plan. They looked completely open at the back. Take out pogba and kante their midfield looks devoid of creativity. If we play them in the quarters I wouldn't be too worried right now but that's a long way off

[joey_big_nose]

To kind of go back about what I said about things hardly likely to change, I suppose there is a chance given just how badly England have performed last five games that maybe Southgate will go for a big change.

Can't really see it though. 

Team for tonight I would slightly modify the lineup to have five in midfield, let the full backs bomb on, rather than congesting the wide areas, and get Foden on the ball centrally to try and link things up.

                               Ramsdale

                Walker       Stones    Tomori

James    Bellingham   Foden     Rice     Shaw

                        Kane        Sterling

 

[roverandout]

Reading the anti-england sentiment on the welsh and Scottish boards makes me believe even more that we don't need them. I have never supported other 'home nations' and never will. The Scots and Welsh really do despise England.  I'm not saying every man and his dog do but if Scotland wants it's independence screw them. I Hope wales get battered at the world cup 

[joey_big_nose]

Looking at the lineups - Germany have not matched up 343, they've gone 4231. So it should maybe be a better game and a bit more free flowing as the sides wont directly cancel each other out.

England will be able to double up on their full backs, but Germany will have an additional player through the middle. On top of that Stones should add a bit of passing quality to the back line, and Shaw gives us a proper left foot so we can use the width.

In terms of the XI its a clear indication that the world cup team is pretty settled despite the results. Maguire still in there, Bellingham and Rice, Stones back, Stones, Foden, Sterling all in.