Champions League

[J*B]

16 minutes ago, Gav said:

I don't know many of the details, I'm only reading this mornings press, but it seems the great Liverpool cover up is in full swing.

Liverpools own players and ex-players seem to be blaming the police, whilst also claiming thousands of fake tickets were in circulation that could have broken the turnstiles. Lots of footage of Liverpool fans climbing the fences and busting through barriers, nothing new to see here, been going on for decades. I have every sympathy for anyone on the end of pepper spray, its awful stuff and its usually the innocent bystanders that bear the brunt sadly.

Thankfully Real Madrid fans had no such trouble by the looks and sounds of things, neither did Rangers fans, over 100,000 in Seville, be interesting to see the bones picked out of this one.

 

I wasn’t there - so I won’t make comment on exactly what happened. What I will say is after following England at Euro 2016 the French police are absolutely desperate to attack - and I mean attack - football fans if there’s any sign of disruption, unrest or things aren’t going exactly to their plan. They’re absolutely terrible - thieves, criminals, bullies and they seem to enjoy it. I wouldn’t wish them on anyone. 

[Gav]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The final was the first time I watched the champions league all season and I got to say I don't miss watching it. 

Its was good game and Liverpool should have home and dry by in the first 40 mins, but don't take your chances then you got what you deserved

Goodness me chaddy you've missed some great games this season.

Real Madrid deserved to win this seasons competition, beating City, Chelsea, PSG and Liverpool along the way. they're not the greatest side in the world right now, but they win games.

[Gav]

21 minutes ago, J*B said:

I wasn’t there - so I won’t make comment on exactly what happened. What I will say is after following England at Euro 2016 the French police are absolutely desperate to attack - and I mean attack - football fans if there’s any sign of disruption, unrest or things aren’t going exactly to their plan. They’re absolutely terrible - thieves, criminals, bullies and they seem to enjoy it. I wouldn’t wish them on anyone. 

You'll get no arguments from me on that J*B.

Marseilles France 98 - England v Tunisia was like a war zone down by the port, the police had every right to kick off to be honest, but I've seen many occasions where police across Europe are smashing people for the sake of it, only happens at football in my experience. 

I read today about fans lighting flares and taking coke should be jailed, it was like a 3 days in Medellin back then, open drug taking everywhere, baseball bats, bike chains, cs gas, knives, but we digress, thankfully things have improved massively since back then.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Gav

[RoverDom]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

The final was the first time I watched the champions league all season and I got to say I don't miss watching it. 

Its was good game and Liverpool should have home and dry by in the first 40 mins, but don't take your chances then you got what you deserved

The final is rarely the best game of the CL

[Herbie6590]

13 minutes ago, matt83 said:Well it’s something along those lines anyway. 

Dear me…

[chaddyrovers]

27 minutes ago, Gav said:

Goodness me chaddy you've missed some great games this season.

Real Madrid deserved to win this seasons competition, beating City, Chelsea, PSG and Liverpool along the way. they're not the greatest side in the world right now, but they win games.

TBH Gav, I don't have a much of interested in the champions league or the other UEFA club competitions these days. 

I might have missed some great games but I don't missed them at all

[jim mk2]

First up, the Champions League is a big turn-off for me. It's a money making machine for football's elite - and it's going to get worse as the richest few corner all the wealth and power - does that sound familiar? I never watch it. It;'s also a misnomer, because its not a competition for champions

I loved the old European Cup, knockout football at its finest. The Uefa Cup and European Cup winners Cup were great competitions too. They had kudos and meant something. I went to Everton's Cup winners cup semi-final against Bayern in 1984 - one of the best night's football in my life

Second, the trouble last night. I had friends in the thick of it last night - they were there working in the media, and they blame entirely chaotic French "organisation" and French police looking for a confrontation at the slightest sign of a problem (and even if there wasn't a problem). Having attended the Paris marathon recently and the lack of organisation at that event, I'm not surprised at all

 

 

[Mike E]

Why are people always so keen to blame Liverpool fans specifically?

Did last summer not make it clear that the problem with fans (if there is any) is English fans of any club? Or are you going to tell me that only scousers were present at Wembley last summer too?

French police in particular have always been keen to make an example of British fans, as scar tissue on my skull from 1998 (I was seven and eating a pizza with my dad) testifies. Yes, we were there without tickets (as we do for many tournaments) because the atmosphere is worth soaking up.

I don't believe fans were angels last night (look at the footage, it's all there) but there are a significant number of posters who think that the police kettling innocents and then storming them with tear gas and batons is deserved (look at the footage, that's also there). If you think that's ok, you have a warped view of humanity regardless of which club these people support.

And I'll reiterate my point from last night, if you're the sort of person who looks at last night and immediately makes a mocking remark relating to Hillsborough (such as 'always the victim, it's never your fault') you have a rotten soul and need to look yourself in the mirror.

[Gav]

17 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Why are people always so keen to blame Liverpool fans specifically?

And I'll reiterate my point from last night, if you're the sort of person who looks at last night and immediately makes a mocking remark relating to Hillsborough (such as 'always the victim, it's never your fault') you have a rotten soul and need to look yourself in the mirror.

People are weighing up the facts as we have them Mike, several sources from the Liverpool camp themselves are blaming fake tickets, we've seen footage of storming the gates and climbing the fences.

As for the Hillsborough point, I'm not reading that on these pages at all, nobody from what I can see is saying that.

[Mike E]

13 minutes ago, Gav said:

People are weighing up the facts as we have them Mike, several sources from the Liverpool camp themselves are blaming fake tickets, we've seen footage of storming the gates and climbing the fences.

As for the Hillsborough point, I'm not reading that on these pages at all, nobody from what I can see is saying that.

That's because they've been hidden (only 4-5, but enough that I felt the need to address it).

The posts that remain (such as yours) are clearly referring to last night and not just taking potshots at a tragedy.

The counterpoints I'd make to address yours are:

1. Fans don't necessarily know their tickets are fake (fake tickets are epidemic now), and don't deserve to be kettled for it.

2. SOME of the footage is escaping a police-enforces crush via kettling, BUT  a lot of it is as you say climbing fences to get in, which is stupid whatever your circumstances are.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Mike E

[roverandout]

7 hours ago, K-Hod said:

You don’t rate him, or Mbappe…

Who do you rate? 👀 

It's just that it's low standards compared to the 90s. Messi and ronaldo have been the only true megastars to come through in the 2000s. Ronaldinho as well but compared to players like Zidane ronaldo9 rivaldo etc people seem to rate players who have a bit of pace and score a few goals 

[roverandout]

34 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Why are people always so keen to blame Liverpool fans specifically?

Did last summer not make it clear that the problem with fans (if there is any) is English fans of any club? Or are you going to tell me that only scousers were present at Wembley last summer too?

French police in particular have always been keen to make an example of BRITISH fans, as scar tissue on my skull from 1998 (I was seven and eating a pizza with my dad) testifies. Yes, we were there without tickets (as we do for many tournaments) because the atmosphere is worth soaking up.

I don't believe fans were angels last night (look at the footage, it's all there) but there are a significant number of posters who think that the police kettling innocents and then storming them with tear gas and batons is deserved (look at the footage, that's also there). If you think that's ok, you have a warped view of humanity regardless of which club these people support.

And I'll reiterate my point from last night, if you're the sort of person who looks at last night and immediately makes a mocking remark relating to Hillsborough (such as 'always the victim, it's never your fault') you have a rotten soul and need to look yourself in the mirror.

Please don't confuse Scottish or Welsh fans with English fans 

[Hasta]

https://twitter.com/draper_rob/status/1530830463270518785?t=QbwSBpnz92VVx_O2nl5CmQ&s=08

That's a pretty grim thread on the organisation, including the Sky news report which is also in there. There's an element of idiots in all big football followings, and there will be footage which doesn't look good. But it's clear every Liverpool fan was subject to organisational chaos and that should have been a lot better organised.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Hasta

[Mattyblue]

1 minute ago, roverandout said:

Please don't confuse Scottish or Welsh fans with English fans 

Yes, they behave themselves…

[Mike E]

2 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Please don't confuse Scottish or Welsh fans with English fans 

Oh I didn't mean to. I tried to emphasise BRITISH because Europeans often treat Scottish and Welsh fans as if they are English because of historic England fan behaviour.

But as Mattyblue says, Scots and Welsh tend to behave.

[bazza]

The best team won.

[Mike E]

One day we'll learn not to mindlessly blame Liverpool fans because the stench of 30 year old lies has hung around.

https://www.sportbible.com/football/explanation-shows-why-chaos-wasnt-liverpool-fans-fault-20220529?source=facebook

[Gav]

2 hours ago, Mike E said:

One day we'll learn not to mindlessly blame Liverpool fans because the stench of 30 year old lies has hung around.

https://www.sportbible.com/football/explanation-shows-why-chaos-wasnt-liverpool-fans-fault-20220529?source=facebook

Liverpool fans and the city were appallingly treated over Hillsborough, I'm glad those poor families finally got to the truth.

I would just add that older supporters remember Heysal 85 where hundreds of Liverpool fans attacked Juventus fans which sadly led to 39 deaths. I remember that disaster being blamed on Chelsea fans and English hooligan groups in general, not Liverpool, which was a disgrace, perpetrated by English gutter press. 

Not everything is about Hillsborough. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Gav

[chaddyrovers]

 

 

[Silas]

This lad is a bit of a legend. Pepper spray direct to face, minor flinch, don't mind me, I'll just move over and try this other ticket machine. 😂

Wtf? He a cyborg?:

 

 

[AllRoverAsia]

41 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

From a man on the spot who saw what happened. Thanks for posting.

Liverpool bashers should watch it.

[Mike E]

2 hours ago, Gav said:

Liverpool fans and the city were appallingly treated over Hillsborough, I'm glad those poor families finally got to the truth.

I would just add that older supporters remember Heysal 85 where hundreds of Liverpool fans attacked Juventus fans which sadly led to 39 deaths. I remember that disaster being blamed on Chelsea fans and English hooligan groups in general, not Liverpool, which was a disgrace, perpetrated by English gutter press. 

Not everything is about Hillsborough. 

Agreed, and people really should think twice about using a phrase used to mock Liverpool fans and their dead relatives specifically over Hillsborough (always the victims) for 30 years.

There's plenty enough to criticise about last night without resorting to that.

[jodrell]

personally I think its a two fold problem the ticket system and buying from touts. I went to the England Germany game and you could tell then they could have problems.  you had to go through a so called pre check where you had to show a bar code for your ticket which could be easy to copy and the stewards hardly looked at them. when we got to the turnsiles people without tickets were jumping in with those that did. Plus it must be easy for the touts to copy the tickets and  sell them on' perssonaly I wont buy from a tout but a lot will.

[Giant]

It’s hard to feel sympathy for folk who buy tkts off touts and find out they’re fake. The issue looks like it’s been caused by these tkts not working, hence bottlenecks and frustrated fans pushing towards turnstiles. That and a lot of drunk fans acting like idiots, who the French fans regard as fair game. No issue with Madrid fans.

[Hasta]

15 minutes ago, Giant said:

It’s hard to feel sympathy for folk who buy tkts off touts and find out they’re fake. The issue looks like it’s been caused by these tkts not working, hence bottlenecks and frustrated fans pushing towards turnstiles. That and a lot of drunk fans acting like idiots, who the French fans regard as fair game. No issue with Madrid fans.

The issue is clearly caused by the organisation,which pushed 20,000 fans through a 1m wide funnel which bottlenecked, then only 2 open turnstiles. Have you watched the above?

If there was more alternative checkpoints then most of that doesn't happen.

The kick off was delayed as the checkpoint / turnstile couldn't let enough people through. Had people got in the ground in good time this wouldn't even be a story 

The police conduct, in many instances, was clearly heavy-handed.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Hasta