v Blackpool (a) - 2/10/21

[47er]

45 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Going back to yesterday's game we got a glimpse of the future without Nyambe - and it wasn't particularly pretty.

My first thought was that surely we must have an actual RB from the Academy who could cover in an emergency, I wasn't even aware Pike had gone out on loan which seems crazy given Nyambe's and JRC's injury records.

Failing that Carter has already filled in there this season and done well, why not leave him there and put Magloire in his natural position at CB?

Or is that too simple?

The problem with Nyambe is that, even if he did sign a new contract, he's injury-prone.

[47er]

15 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Blackpool - are still in recovery and have a solid base to work from, that’s about it as far as I am aware, they still do t own their own ground and the nasty aroma of the Oystons still linger around the club.

They beat us on Saturday and they have bigger attendances than we do. If they could do it why couldn't we? Same goes for Bolton.

Can't understand the pessimism personally. The alternative seems to be to finish about half-way up the Championship every season and crowds are dwindling in recognition of that.

[LDRover]

25 minutes ago, 47er said:

They beat us on Saturday and they have bigger attendances than we do. If they could do it why couldn't we? Same goes for Bolton.

Can't understand the pessimism personally. The alternative seems to be to finish about half-way up the Championship every season and crowds are dwindling in recognition of that.

And debt increasing.

[roverandout]

9 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Sounds like a fair weather happy clapper to me.

When was the last time we had good 'weather'? We are currently in the middle of a monsoon 

Edited October 4, 2021 by roverandout

[martonrover]

8 hours ago, simongarnerisgod said:

if they somehow appoint someone who is progressive and ambitious he won`t last long working under a regime like this,lambert was out the door sharpish when he found out what the job was really about,the rest of venkys appointments have been journeymen and idiots,though i do think bowyer did a good job before they forced him to sell his best players

A competent CEO needs to be appointed, then let him / her appoint a manager and have said manager report directly to the CEO.

I agree that a decent manager would soon tire of having to deal directly with ignorant , India based owners.

[Crimpshrine]

9 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

At present we have multi billionaire owners who have repeatedly backed us financially up to the limit currently allowed by the footballing authorities. We also still have a fine infrastructure. (as long as Waggott is prevented from selling it off ) Theoretically therefore all we're really lacking is an ambitious and capable manager in the dug out and competent management behind the scenes on the ground at Ewood.

Venky's financial backing is worth nothing without any other constructive input. May as well throw the money down the toilet. 

How many times are you prepared to be disappointed before you realise Venky's are bad news for the club - no point clinging to false hopes that they will come good one day.

Eventually they will decide enough is enough and administration would then be a real possibility - may as well get it over with.

[Crimpshrine]

9 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

Rhetorical question - if Venkys suddenly pulled the finance plug how does anyone think Rovers would carry on, for example from January?

Someone else takes over. Maybe someone with the clubs best interests at heart - Is that not a possibility ?

[RevidgeBlue]

39 minutes ago, Crimpshrine said:

Venky's financial backing is worth nothing without any other constructive input. May as well throw the money down the toilet. 

Correct.

You can't undo what has happened in the past but If they won't make the necessary changes going forward their considerable financial input will continue to go to waste.

If they did however........

[Oldgregg86]

11 hours ago, rigger said:

Please elaborate.

Whats there to elaborate on. Wherever and whoever rovers are playing i will be there . No crystal ball required 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Oldgregg86

[lraC]

9 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

Rhetorical question - if Venkys suddenly pulled the finance plug how does anyone think Rovers would carry on, for example from January?

The club would be in serious dire straits and would not be able to operate.

The wages would not get paid, maintenance and operations football wise would cease meaning fixtures could not be finished.

Players could walk out added to an immediate points penalty, administration and a certain relegation.

There may never be a second season as there would be no funding, not even the most savvy of administrators would be able to save the club from another huge points deficit, a second relegation and then likely punishment from the Football League and a certain expulsion. That is the worst case scenario.

We keep seeing examples of teams coming back, Southampton - had seriously rich buyers who then sold on.

Derby - Mel Morris lost £200m of his own money just to take them back into administration!

Blackpool - are still in recovery and have a solid base to work from, that’s about it as far as I am aware, they still do t own their own ground and the nasty aroma of the Oystons still linger around the club.

Portsmouth - again don’t own Fratton Park and are still hamstrung by finances despite a larger fan base than most clubs outside of the PL.

Bournemouth - little club, little ground and seriously heavy in debt. Got out of admin because of football people, had a real journey but nearly lost their standing in football.

Bury - dead and buried!

There are massive clubs out there like Sunderland, Ipswich, QPR, Cardiff, Reading, Boro, Birmingham, Fulham, Coventry, Sheff Utd, Forest and Swansea that are all standing on the precipice of financial damage that will ruin them even when some are backed by money men and some with parachute payments still to be banked! Rovers are currently safe and are still bankrolled by Venkys for the time being.

Hate them or like them, that’s the cold harsh reality.

Its a picture some seem not to be able to fully comprehend and we appear to be slightly better off than a lot of others.

Even our nearest and dearest down in bumley face financial peril because of the manner their owners have bought the club.

Be careful what you wish for is what I say. (And before it is questioned I am I. The Venkys out club!).

Just check Bolton Wanderers story out & Wigan and yo will see the way. It is not all doom and gloom as you suggest.

Venky's have saddled us with this debt, so if they want their money back, they put us into administration and the administrators, look for a suitable buyer, who buys us out of admin, with a business plan and the funds to carry on running the club.

They will get very little back and it is the football creditors, who create the problem, but there are ways of dealing with that. 

I guarantee Derby will survive and so would we.

[lraC]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

It wouldn't imo.

And mine too, without a shadow of a doubt.

[Mattyblue]

‘If only they would appoint top managers and executives’.

It’s been 11 years of this same tune, and they still can’t, or more worryingly, won’t grasp this basic premise of professional sport - why will they change now, when they leave the club to its own devices, never visit, never seem to set any targets for progression and seemingly have no issue in the status quo of throwing money down the proverbial toilet year after year? 

[lraC]

9 hours ago, 47er said:

They beat us on Saturday and they have bigger attendances than we do. If they could do it why couldn't we? Same goes for Bolton.

Can't understand the pessimism personally. The alternative seems to be to finish about half-way up the Championship every season and crowds are dwindling in recognition of that.

It has to end somewhere, as I am sure in another 10 years, with the possibility of the debt doubling, Venky's won't still be around.

Unless they are prepared to carry on losing £20 million every season, something will eventually give and we will then be in administration. It WILL happen at some point.

[47er]

Just now, lraC said:

It has to end somewhere, as I am sure in another 10 years, with the possibility of the debt doubling, Venky's won't still be around.

Unless they are prepared to carry on losing £20 million every season, something will eventually give and we will then be in administration. It WILL happen at some point.

Hang on, we've been assured that huge changes are on the way!

[lraC]

3 minutes ago, 47er said:

Hang on, we've been assured that huge changes are on the way!

That has been predicted and perhaps the changes will be akin to Derby.

Derby County: Club have '95% chance' of survival, say administrators - BBC Sport

[arbitro]

1 minute ago, lraC said:

It has to end somewhere, as I am sure in another 10 years, with the possibility of the debt doubling, Venky's won't still be around.

Unless they are prepared to carry on losing £20 million every season, something will eventually give and we will then be in administration. It WILL happen at some point.

And yet some supporters are happy (and thankful) for them to do this and harm the future of the club even more. Nobody knows where this famous old club will end up with this lot and I think the inevitability will be administration. 

[lraC]

7 minutes ago, arbitro said:

And yet some supporters are happy (and thankful) for them to do this and harm the future of the club even more. Nobody knows where this famous old club will end up with this lot and I think the inevitability will be administration. 

It is quite baffling that some supporters feel that way.

I know the bulk of the posters on here are anti Venky's and there have been some questions, quite rightly asked about how we would survive without Venky's, but we are nearly 150 years old. we survived before they arrive and we will survive after they have gone. All they have ever done is increase our debt. we have had NO success with them and will always be in financial danger, whist they are here.

We are a far bigger club than Derby (based on our success) and according to the experts they have a 95% chance of surviving.

Get rid of our owners now for me and bring on administration, as if Derby have a 95% chance of surviving, our will be even higher.

Venky's out for me and the sooner the better.

FOV

Edited October 4, 2021 by lraC

[lraC]

Football Clubs That Go Into Administration: What Happens and Is It Really a Disaster?

 

Back in May, the English Football League’s chairman Rick Parry told government ministers that ‘five to ten’ EFL clubs could go into administration in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic.

Most have been left hopelessly out of pocket by the virus, with a £200 million ‘black hole’ quoted by Parry, and even clubs higher up the food chain have been feeling the pinch.

Wigan Athletic, who at the time of writing had won more points in the Championship since Christmas than any other side, are the first team to be put in administration since the outbreak.

And as per EFL sanctions, the Latics will be deducted 12 points should they finish outside of the division’s relegation zone. However, if they go down to League One, Wigan will start the new season on -12 points. Either way, it looks increasingly likely that they will be playing in the third tier in 2020/21.

What’s all the more mind-boggling is that the administration comes just one month after a Hong Kong based consortium, Next Leader Fund, took over the running of the club.

So should Wigan Athletic fans be fearful for their beloved’s future, or is being put into administration really as dramatic as it sounds? Here’s a look at how the administration process works.

What Happens When a Football Club Goes Into Administration?

Essentially, when a football club is unable to pay off its outstanding debts with its current cashflow, a firm of accountants – known as the administrators – are brought in to see if changes can be made to free up some spare funds.

Typically, that involves the sale of players and perhaps even the club’s stadium or training ground, while the administrators may also call for changes behind the scene in order to cut costs.

The administrative process also orders how payments are made, ensuring that players and staff are paid first and that debts such as outstanding transfer fees are also satisfied.

The administrator’s main task is to prevent the club from being declared insolvent, and they try to do this by restructuring debts, selling assets (e.g. players) or by finding someone willing to buy the club and take on the debt.

If the financial situation cannot be resolved, the administrator can recommend that the club be shut down through the liquidation process – as seen at the likes of Bury, Chester City and Darlington in recent times.

What are the Punishments for Going Into Administration?

You can’t really levy fines on a football club with no money.

And so the EFL has sought ways to punish clubs placed into administration in other ways, and in 2015 the decision was taken to increase the points deduction from ten to twelve points.

This can be put into place at different times – as seen in the Wigan example – and will either affect the current season or, in some cases, the club will carry the punishment over to the next campaign and start on -12 points.

The points deduction was introduced to stop clubs taking a soft way out of debt by voluntarily going into administration without any repercussions.

Is Administration the End for a Football Club?

There is no real consensus as to whether administration is a necessary evil or the start of the process in which the Grim Reaper appears on the terraces armed with his trusty scythe.

Here’s a list of clubs who have entered administration in the past ten years:

Crystal Palace	2010	Survived	Now in Premier League
Portsmouth	2010	Survived	Rebuilding in League One
Plymouth Argyle	2011	Survived	Back in League One
Rushden & Diamonds	2011	Liquidated	–
Darlington	2012	Liquidated	–
Port Vale	2012	Survived	Still in League Two
Coventry City	2013	Survived	Promoted to Championship
Aldershot Town	2013	Liquidated	–
Bolton Wanderers	2019	Survived	Relegated to League Two
Bury	2019	Liquidated	–

Prior to 2010, the likes of Leicester City, Leeds United and Southampton all entered administration, and they have bounced back with aplomb – Leicester went from League One to Premier League champions in barely five years.

Of the clubs that have entered administration since 2010, a number that are similar in profile to Wigan Athletic – Coventry City, Portsmouth et al – have taken their medicine and are now rebuilding well; both could be playing in the Championship in 2020/21.

Of the four that have been liquidated, three – Aldershot, Rushden & Diamonds and Darlington – were playing in the National League at the time, and at that level it becomes incredibly difficult to find the investment required to survive. These are also clubs without any real saleable assets too.

It is the cases of Bolton and Bury that will be worrying Wigan fans. Lancashire is well populated by football clubs in what is a largely cash-poor area, and so finding external investment is key – quite what Wigan’s new ownership team from Hong Kong have in mind is anybody’s guess.

Bury simply could not find a way back from the brink, while Bolton – who have gone from the Championship to League Two in the blink of an eye, are also looking to work their way up from the bottom.

Wigan have a good team and a savvy manager, and so they can only pray they find their way out of this predicament on the pitch as much as they find solidity off it.

 Update from me, as this was an article from 2020

Wigan look like they have found a way and I am sure it was not the prayers that did it. If they can survive, so can we.

 

FOV

[Gav]

10 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

Rhetorical question - if Venkys suddenly pulled the finance plug how does anyone think Rovers would carry on, for example from January?

I’m not sure what’s happened to you recently 1864, you seem to have had a major epiphany in recent months…

If Venkys crawled back under the rock in January we’d have a queue of suitors ready to take over, I know of 4 myself and we’d probably have more. This nonsense about Venkys keeping us afloat is just that, nonsense, they’re potentially lumping debt on to the club with every passing year and the longer this goes on the worse it becomes.

Give me points deductions and non league football right now to get rid of them, we have a decent fan base, we’d come back. In a strange sort of way I believe it would galvanise the support and the town, much in the same way as the owners have destroyed businesses, families and divided the fan base. 

This football club will never move forward until Venkys sod off, it’s as simple as that. 

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Gav

[lraC]

5 minutes ago, Gav said:

I’m not sure what’s happened to you recently 1864, you seem to have had a major epiphany in recent months…

If Venkys crawled back under the rock in January we’d have a queue of suitors ready to take over, I know of 4 myself and we’d probably have more. This nonsense about Venkys keeping us afloat is just that, nonsense, they’re potentially lumping debt on to the club with every passing year and the longer this goes on the worse it becomes.

Give me points deductions and non league football right now to get rid of them, we have a decent fan base, we’d come back. In a strange sort of way I believe it would galvanise the support and the town.

This football club will never move forward until Venkys sod off, it’s as simple as that. 

 

I know some people just want to bury their collective heads in the sand and get behind the lads, but is anyone enjoying seeing the lads play in front of around 10,000 fans, get stitched up for their drinks and food, no longer have a programme to read and seeing the stadium, decay around them?

 

[1864roverite]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

I’m not sure what’s happened to you recently 1864, you seem to have had a major epiphany in recent months…

If Venkys crawled back under the rock in January we’d have a queue of suitors ready to take over, I know of 4 myself and we’d probably have more. This nonsense about Venkys keeping us afloat is just that, nonsense, they’re potentially lumping debt on to the club with every passing year and the longer this goes on the worse it becomes.

Give me points deductions and non league football right now to get rid of them, we have a decent fan base, we’d come back. In a strange sort of way I believe it would galvanise the support and the town, much in the same way as the owners have destroyed businesses, families and divided the fan base. 

This football club will never move forward until Venkys sod off, it’s as simple as that. 

 

I have not had any epiphany at all, I have my views and I stick to them, it doesn't matter who or what I have done, or what may be or what's gone by.

I am a solid Rovers fan with genuine and utter concerns about my club. Until I bear witness to the changes muted then I will always err on the side of caution. That will never alter my current perspective.

The debt is to Venkys not to BRFC, they are the 99.9% owners all debt is owned by them.

Administration is not the way forward in my view, neither is a points deduction or a falling away down the league ladder. If you think that this would galvanise the fan base you are mistaken in my opinion. 

We are currently top 10 in the championship and can barely muster 11k home fans per game. Just how do some think we could muster more down the league and just where in the world would we be playing? Do you think the venkys would just hand over Ewood Park? Its a sellable asset owned by them like Brockhall and everything else attached to Rovers.

People constantly mute (or some do ) that there are interested buyers, I don't accept this. If there was the bids would be in there. In todays current climate of pandemic and where businesses are losing money hand over foot, if venkys were approached I am pretty sure that by being savvy to lure investment they would snap someone's hand off because there would be a joint holder or holders of the debt to the business. If anyone had a plan to progress BRFC then they would be on that phone every day banging the message to the owners, the stock truth of the matter is there is no one harping about it, not even Nixon has that claim and everyone knows that if he knew it would have been blurted out on his twitter feed or through the media.

Another point you made Gav is about the owners funding the club and lumping more debt - this debt is theirs. There is no doubt through their companies that a loss maker like Rovers is a drop in the ocean for them across their port folio.

Without their current funding across the Ewood operation we wouldn't operate properly, we couldn't because we don't have a financial structure of crowds, match day and sponsorship income and everything else that runs alongside finance.

Rovers situation is totally different to that of Bolton, Bury and every other club mentioned, we don't have loads of creditors, the players wages are secure and there is no hostility in the background with board members and potential consortiums claiming this that and the other. 

I do not want to see Rovers fold down the league as some suggest, its the wrong way and we may never regain that foothold. The real way forward to successfully build a base structure and progress. For me that is the immediate removal of Mowbray and a total restructure of the board, putting in place a competent football knowledgeable CEO alongside a board that has vision, creativity and that can think outside of the box, putting its support at the very heart of the club, rebuilding trust and getting the fans to buy into that strategy.

It is clear to me, as I bore witness at Blackpool - that some fans have very little understanding of what happens behind the scenes but at the same time, it is evident that the message is clear, we have one aim and that is the love for our club and for it to progress. Sinking down the leagues is not progression or rebuilding, its football suicide and there is a very clear alternative to the suggestions you have made.

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by 1864roverite

[Gav]

How many football league clubs have folded never to return 1864?

What makes you think the owners will take the debt with them? 

Edited October 4, 2021 by Gav

[PeteJD13]

1 hour ago, lraC said:

Football Clubs That Go Into Administration: What Happens and Is It Really a Disaster?

 

Back in May, the English Football League’s chairman Rick Parry told government ministers that ‘five to ten’ EFL clubs could go into administration in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic.

Most have been left hopelessly out of pocket by the virus, with a £200 million ‘black hole’ quoted by Parry, and even clubs higher up the food chain have been feeling the pinch.

Wigan Athletic, who at the time of writing had won more points in the Championship since Christmas than any other side, are the first team to be put in administration since the outbreak.

And as per EFL sanctions, the Latics will be deducted 12 points should they finish outside of the division’s relegation zone. However, if they go down to League One, Wigan will start the new season on -12 points. Either way, it looks increasingly likely that they will be playing in the third tier in 2020/21.

What’s all the more mind-boggling is that the administration comes just one month after a Hong Kong based consortium, Next Leader Fund, took over the running of the club.

So should Wigan Athletic fans be fearful for their beloved’s future, or is being put into administration really as dramatic as it sounds? Here’s a look at how the administration process works.

What Happens When a Football Club Goes Into Administration?

Essentially, when a football club is unable to pay off its outstanding debts with its current cashflow, a firm of accountants – known as the administrators – are brought in to see if changes can be made to free up some spare funds.

Typically, that involves the sale of players and perhaps even the club’s stadium or training ground, while the administrators may also call for changes behind the scene in order to cut costs.

The administrative process also orders how payments are made, ensuring that players and staff are paid first and that debts such as outstanding transfer fees are also satisfied.

The administrator’s main task is to prevent the club from being declared insolvent, and they try to do this by restructuring debts, selling assets (e.g. players) or by finding someone willing to buy the club and take on the debt.

If the financial situation cannot be resolved, the administrator can recommend that the club be shut down through the liquidation process – as seen at the likes of Bury, Chester City and Darlington in recent times.

What are the Punishments for Going Into Administration?

You can’t really levy fines on a football club with no money.

And so the EFL has sought ways to punish clubs placed into administration in other ways, and in 2015 the decision was taken to increase the points deduction from ten to twelve points.

This can be put into place at different times – as seen in the Wigan example – and will either affect the current season or, in some cases, the club will carry the punishment over to the next campaign and start on -12 points.

The points deduction was introduced to stop clubs taking a soft way out of debt by voluntarily going into administration without any repercussions.

Is Administration the End for a Football Club?

There is no real consensus as to whether administration is a necessary evil or the start of the process in which the Grim Reaper appears on the terraces armed with his trusty scythe.

Here’s a list of clubs who have entered administration in the past ten years:

Crystal Palace	2010	Survived	Now in Premier League
Portsmouth	2010	Survived	Rebuilding in League One
Plymouth Argyle	2011	Survived	Back in League One
Rushden & Diamonds	2011	Liquidated	–
Darlington	2012	Liquidated	–
Port Vale	2012	Survived	Still in League Two
Coventry City	2013	Survived	Promoted to Championship
Aldershot Town	2013	Liquidated	–
Bolton Wanderers	2019	Survived	Relegated to League Two
Bury	2019	Liquidated	–

Prior to 2010, the likes of Leicester City, Leeds United and Southampton all entered administration, and they have bounced back with aplomb – Leicester went from League One to Premier League champions in barely five years.

Of the clubs that have entered administration since 2010, a number that are similar in profile to Wigan Athletic – Coventry City, Portsmouth et al – have taken their medicine and are now rebuilding well; both could be playing in the Championship in 2020/21.

Of the four that have been liquidated, three – Aldershot, Rushden & Diamonds and Darlington – were playing in the National League at the time, and at that level it becomes incredibly difficult to find the investment required to survive. These are also clubs without any real saleable assets too.

It is the cases of Bolton and Bury that will be worrying Wigan fans. Lancashire is well populated by football clubs in what is a largely cash-poor area, and so finding external investment is key – quite what Wigan’s new ownership team from Hong Kong have in mind is anybody’s guess.

Bury simply could not find a way back from the brink, while Bolton – who have gone from the Championship to League Two in the blink of an eye, are also looking to work their way up from the bottom.

Wigan have a good team and a savvy manager, and so they can only pray they find their way out of this predicament on the pitch as much as they find solidity off it.

 Update from me, as this was an article from 2020

Wigan look like they have found a way and I am sure it was not the prayers that did it. If they can survive, so can we.

 

FOV

Bury FC have not been liquidated the club was expelled from the league and the company is in administration, currently the fans consortium est1885 have an offer in the buy the club and the ground

[1864roverite]

4 minutes ago, Gav said:

How many football league clubs have folded never to return 1864?

What makes you think the owners will take the debt with them? 

In recent times Bury are an example whilst Rushden Diamonds are another.

Venkys own the debt so if they were to liquidate the club, they would sell everything off, they have the power to just switch off and shut it down entirely if they so desired.

Who in their right mind would buy this debt from them? a low fan base, middle income at best with limited prospects unless a radical overhaul was made meaning expenditure.

Some mention Wigan as an example, they sold their gold and still have considerable debts to manage. Another club with very low crowds appear to being successful on the pitch which is great, its what happens should they get promoted because expenditure is greater and there isnt a lot of increase in crowds coming through the door.

Rovers need a complete background overhaul, that is pretty clearly obvious. The manager needs changing as he is stale, boring and is now a liability to any progress being made off the park.

 

[lraC]

7 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

Bury FC have not been liquidated the club was expelled from the league and the company is in administration, currently the fans consortium est1885 have an offer in the buy the club and the ground

The best of luck to them, as it was awful what happened to them and the chancer that did it, should never have been approved as fit and proper.

The biggest danger to our clubs are people like him and the similar chancer who nearly did the same to BWFC. It is time that the fit and proper test was revisited and a a proper system brought in.