v Blackpool (a) - 2/10/21

[Mattyblue]

‘We can’t operate without their funding due to low crowds, match day and sponsorship income’.

Owners come in and totally dismantle the team, executive structure, support base and income streams and then be completely reliant on their good will to avoid oblivion.

Some operating model.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Mattyblue

[DE.]

Genuine question, is there evidence Venky's businesses outside of Rovers have suffered due to the pandemic? Last I saw their stock price had dramatically increased during covid, suggesting there was no concern from investors. Not saying there isn't proof out there showing that they are struggling, I just haven't seen it.

[lraC]

6 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

In recent times Bury are an example whilst Rushden Diamonds are another.

Venkys own the debt so if they were to liquidate the club, they would sell everything off, they have the power to just switch off and shut it down entirely if they so desired.

Who in their right mind would buy this debt from them? a low fan base, middle income at best with limited prospects unless a radical overhaul was made meaning expenditure.

Some mention Wigan as an example, they sold their gold and still have considerable debts to manage. Another club with very low crowds appear to being successful on the pitch which is great, its what happens should they get promoted because expenditure is greater and there isnt a lot of increase in crowds coming through the door.

Rovers need a complete background overhaul, that is pretty clearly obvious. The manager needs changing as he is stale, boring and is now a liability to any progress being made off the park.

 

I might be very wide of the mark here, but I get the impression that Venky's are frightened to death or a proper investigation, into what really happened during the take over.

There were allegedly some very dodgy things happening and plenty lined their pockets allegedly too.

You only need to look at some of the players who arrived at the club, made no appearances and sailed off into the sunset. There were also plenty who were signed for crazy amounts, paid crazy wages and were nothing like the standard required, even after relegation form the premier league.

I would hope, they would do the decent thing, write off the debt and hope that a proper investigation is not carried out.

[TheRovers1994]

19 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes @tomphilis correct that the Rovers fans has received alot of praised from the manager and players this season. And you seen the players still coming here to the fans yesterday. Kaminski and Ayala gave their shirts to fans yesterday. All the players came over the fans to thanks us for our support and even in the last couple of minutes Rovers fans were singing Mowbray's blue and white army. Fans were clapping the players off yesterday they produced a good second half performance. In the first half they were 2 chants of Mowbray sort it out during the first half.  

I think the Blackpool fans were good and vocal but I gave that would be the case in a local derby game. 

 

Easier to create an atmosphere in a small ground rather than 31k seater with only 10k in it 

[Miker]

I find it absolutely incredible people are looking at the likes of Portsmouth, Bolton & Wigan in envy.

I would never want to trade our fantastic team of academy graduates and young breakthrough strikers like Brero, Gally & Dolan for their teams of journeymen. Bolton have Rovers' rejects Delfonueso and Baptiste playing for them for god's sake.

Wigan have been yo-yoing between the Championship and League One for years, their highest finish in the Championship since the 1st season has been 18th.

[lraC]

5 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

‘We can’t operate without their funding due to low crowds, match day and sponsorship income’.

Owners come in and totally dismantle the team, executive structure, support base and income streams and then be completely reliant on their good will to avoid oblivion.

Some operating model.

Absolutely, it is a manged decline, by the look if it, as you could hardly have failed so badly in every area, even if you were deliberately doing so.

[lraC]

11 minutes ago, Miker said:

I find it absolutely incredible people are looking at the likes of Portsmouth, Bolton & Wigan in envy.

I would never want to trade our fantastic team of academy graduates and young breakthrough strikers like Brero, Gally & Dolan for their teams of journeymen. Bolton have Rovers' rejects Delfonueso and Baptiste playing for them for god's sake.

Wigan have been yo-yoing between the Championship and League One for years, their highest finish in the Championship since the 1st season has been 18th.

I don't think anyone is looking at their players, or set up with envy, just the owners and decision makers.

This very thread tells you how we were turned over, by a club, who had a very dubious owner, until very recently. Was that due to their better players or set up? I would say not, it was because they are now being run better and worked harder than us on the day and in the run up to the match. We simply want to be run correctly and not have a team of chancers, making key decisions and doing nothing but make a Horlicks of those decisions, for over 10 years.

Carry on as we are and I would suggest Bolton, Portsmouth and Wigan will also be turning us over on the pitch very soon, not to mention ASFC too, whose owner is the polar opposite of our owners.

This situation has been building for over 10 years and I for one am sick of it.

Edited October 4, 2021 by lraC

[rigger]

2 hours ago, Oldgregg86 said:

Whats there to elaborate on. Wherever and whoever rovers are playing i will be there . No crystal ball required 

You made a comment about my allegiances, that is what I want you to elaborate on. See you on Friday.

[Sparks Rover]

47 minutes ago, DE. said:

Genuine question, is there evidence Venky's businesses outside of Rovers have suffered due to the pandemic? Last I saw their stock price had dramatically increased during covid, suggesting there was no concern from investors. Not saying there isn't proof out there showing that they are struggling, I just haven't seen it.

Their business has grown dramatically in the last 18 months....they make vaccines for crikeys sake....

The 20m losses from us will be off set against some other profits across the group and won't be a problem at all.  The bigger picture for them is the Premier league,  however with this knob in charge, no chance.

[lraC]

6 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Their business has grown dramatically in the last 18 months....they make vaccines for crikeys sake....

The 20m losses from us will be off set against some other profits across the group and won't be a problem at all.  The bigger picture for them is the Premier league,  however with this knob in charge, no chance.

It is amazing that every single managers appointment for close on 11 years, has been a bad one. It makes you wonder, if there is another reason why these managers are being chosen, like they are from a certain agency for example, or someone else picks them.

The law of averages says, they should have got at lease one right by now.

[chaddyrovers]

13 minutes ago, lraC said:

It is amazing that every single managers appointment for close on 11 years, has been a bad one

Was Lambert a bad appointment? or Bowyer? or Mowbray?

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Was Lambert a bad appointment? or Bowyer? or Mowbray?

Yes.

[lraC]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Was Lambert a bad appointment? or Bowyer? or Mowbray?

If you look at what happened, then yes Lambert was a bad appointment. In terms of his ability, we will never know, but from what he said, he was promised certain things, by the person(s) who appointed him and they never materialised. Fair play to him, for sticking to his guns and resigning, so whoever it was who thought they could lie to him, made a very bad choice appointing him.

If the end game, is promotion to the premier, which is what was suggested in the post I replied to, then yes Mowbray and Bowyer were too, although I honestly in my heart of hearts, think that Bowyer did a great job. He steadied the ship even more than Mowbray and come the closest to getting us in the top 6 than anyone, since VH racked up.

[Gav]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

In recent times Bury are an example whilst Rushden Diamonds are another.

Venkys own the debt so if they were to liquidate the club, they would sell everything off, they have the power to just switch off and shut it down entirely if they so desired.

Who in their right mind would buy this debt from them? a low fan base, middle income at best with limited prospects unless a radical overhaul was made meaning expenditure.

Some mention Wigan as an example, they sold their gold and still have considerable debts to manage. Another club with very low crowds appear to being successful on the pitch which is great, its what happens should they get promoted because expenditure is greater and there isnt a lot of increase in crowds coming through the door.

Rovers need a complete background overhaul, that is pretty clearly obvious. The manager needs changing as he is stale, boring and is now a liability to any progress being made off the park.

 

Despite your doomsday predictions, it’s clear that football clubs of our stature don’t go bust, although it’s not beyond the realms of possibility, but I’d take my chances at this stage.

The owners need changing 1864, that’s the only way this club starts to heal, everything else is just a side show.

Edited October 4, 2021 by Gav

[Blue blood]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Was Lambert a bad appointment? or Bowyer? or Mowbray?

Yes to all three. Will admit Lambert had me fooled though. 

If you are asking were these appointments less crap than the others, then the answer is yes. 

[47er]

Just now, Gav said:

Despite your doomsday predictions, it’s clear that football clubs of our stature don’t go bust, although it’s not beyond the realms of possibility, but I’d take my chances at this stage.

The owners need changing 1864, that’s the only way this club starts to heal, everything else is just a side show.

 

Agree Gav. In fact the sure way to see us go out of business is for our current owners to stay

[Blue blood]

26 minutes ago, lraC said:

It is amazing that every single managers appointment for close on 11 years, has been a bad one. It makes you wonder, if there is another reason why these managers are being chosen, like they are from a certain agency for example, or someone else picks them.

The law of averages says, they should have got at lease one right by now.

That I think is where I land on this. Factor in as well that weakest of managers seem to have one good club in them - even the Ince's and Coyle's of the world. So the odds that we don't get a good manager or the mediocre to duff manager who is the right fit - those are long odds is 11 years. It's hard to think of another club who.have had 11 years of rank poor management. If it were chance and random what they were doing we would have got a right fit by now. 

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, lraC said:

If you look at what happened, then yes Lambert was a bad appointment. In terms of his ability, we will never know, but from what he said, he was promised certain things, by the person(s) who appointed him and they never materialised. Fair play to him, for sticking to his guns and resigning, so whoever it was who thought they could lie to him, made a very bad choice appointing him.

Lambert never trusted Venkys and thats why he wanted that release clause in place. tbh, I don't think Venkys ever really trusted him after this moment. The working relationship were never going to last to be honest. 

2 minutes ago, lraC said:

If the end game, is promotion to the premier, which is what was suggested in the post I replied to, then yes Mowbray and Bowyer were too, although I honestly in my heart of hearts, think that Bowyer did a great job. He steadied the ship even more than Mowbray and come the closest to getting us in the top 6 than anyone, since VH racked up.

Fair enough. I think Bowyer did a great job in stability the club after the fiasco of Shebby, Kean, Berg, Agnew, Shaw and Appleton in 1 season. 

On Mowbray, I think his first 2 full seasons were a success. But last season was massive failure with the backing he had and the squad he had. That should have resulted in a change of manager but that hasn;t happened and he remains in charge. 

[Gav]

3 minutes ago, 47er said:

Agree Gav. In fact the sure way to see us go out of business is for our current owners to stay

Absolutely spot on 47er, that’s often ignored in the wider debate.

[lraC]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Lambert never trusted Venkys and thats why he wanted that release clause in place. tbh, I don't think Venkys ever really trusted him after this moment. The working relationship were never going to last to be honest. 

Fair enough. I think Bowyer did a great job in stability the club after the fiasco of Shebby, Kean, Berg, Agnew, Shaw and Appleton in 1 season. 

On Mowbray, I think his first 2 full seasons were a success. But last season was massive failure with the backing he had and the squad he had. That should have resulted in a change of manager but that hasn;t happened and he remains in charge. 

I am pretty much of the same opinion.

[1864roverite]

5 minutes ago, Gav said:

Despite your doomsday predictions, it’s clear that football clubs of our stature don’t go bust, although it’s not beyond the realms of possibility, but I’d take my chances at this stage.

The owners need changing 1864, that’s the only way this club starts to heal, everything else is just a side show.

It’s not a doomsday or any other prediction Gav it’s my opinion and view. Until we see a new owner come forward then we are stuck with what we have and as of yet there is no one coming forwards with either a view to buying or significantly investing to purchase a majority shareholding in the club

[1864roverite]

7 minutes ago, 47er said:

Agree Gav. In fact the sure way to see us go out of business is for our current owners to stay

Still some are missing a valid and important point. Where does the £20m a year come from in addition to servicing a debt to the current owners if they decided to leave?

[lraC]

1 minute ago, 1864roverite said:

Still some are missing a valid and important point. Where does the £20m a year come from in addition to servicing a debt to the current owners if they decided to leave?

It doesn't and we can only hope they do the right thing.

Do they want to pump another £20 million in, until we get to the premier league, or call it a day now and cut their losses.

We will never get to the premier league under the ownership, it has been far too hap hazzard for far too long and is very unlikely to change.

The best analogy is giving the keys back to the lender, as the house the funds are secure against, is sinking into the ground and will eventually be gone. No point in owing £300 million plus on a hole in the ground

[Blue blood]

22 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Still some are missing a valid and important point. Where does the £20m a year come from in addition to servicing a debt to the current owners if they decided to leave?

Two issues here.

Firstly the owners have forced us into a situation where there is a 20 million a year need for them. Hardly praise worthy or gratitude inducing. That's a bit like me pushing you over a cliff and holding onto your ankle and the argument being you should be grateful for me saving your life. 

Secondly, get a few basics right and maybe there's not a 20 million a year deficit! From actually signing our players to long term contracts ahead of 11th hour attempts to do so through to not being a charity case for past it and not needed players that 20 million loss really starts to shrink. Then a bit of reengagement with fans. That we had a full house for the promotion party after years of being dumped on shows the potential is still there with a bit of nous to reclaim our fan base (or some of it.) 

Biggest way of helping is to get Premier League and that really isn't going to happen under this lot. A dose of that money would make things a fair bit more manageable. 

In short, to me, things are much more doable with better owners. Problem is they are never going to go. 

 

[tomphil]

With the way the costs have been slashed there shouldn't be a 20 million deficit. Of course the covid situ has magnified all that but a lot of it is still down to them paying past mistakes still.

Futhermore they seem to like to run with a 10/20 million deficit anyway it seems to suit their corporate accounting. Might get a bit worried when it's heading north of that but within 20 mill they never seem that bothered. If they were they'd demand bang for their bucks but they never do. Just happy for it to flow through the pipes every year.

Cut all the crap away and someone could probably run this club similar to what it is now position wise on a minus 10 mill budget.

The lights wouldn't go out overnight that's project fear style propaganda. It would take a few months but you'd hope someone would step in pretty quickly.  Although obviously there'd have to be a slash and burn unless they were billionaires.

We have that every 5 years anyway though WITH the billionaires. 

Edited October 4, 2021 by tomphil