v Blackpool (a) - 2/10/21

[broadsword]

33 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

A Because they are honourable people with integrity?

B Because there is a big stinking rat beneath the floorboards?

C Because losing money hand over fist at Rovers is a convenient strategy for something else?

A season ticket to Purgatory!

It feels punetive

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 minute ago, broadsword said:

It feels punetive

Ah, you're wasted on here, mate!

[DE.]

Watford are a bit of an outlier when it comes to manager turnover, to say the least. The fact is after a dismal run of 2 wins in 17 matches and ending last season regressing at a rate of knots the vast majority of owners would have pulled the trigger on Mowbray months ago. The fact he remains here either shows that the owners know nothing about football or nothing about the what is happening at the club. Chances are it's both, which leaves us doubly fucked. 

[1864roverite]

Maybe it’s a CEO that wields no power to fire him ?

[RevidgeBlue]

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

A serious question. Why do you think they are still here after eleven years?

 

Because they can (comfortably) afford to fund the losses and apparently it is in their culture that it involves a severe loss of face if you allow one of your businesses to go to the wall. They don't use insolvency as a business tool like we do in the West.

I know that doesn't help us if the operation isn't being properly run here on the ground, but there you are, those are the basic reasons they're still here I reckon.

[Oldgregg86]

A left field suggestion but let’s just give it Jansen and flitty as his number two. Club legends. The Italian national team appoint there top players regularly. Everyone knows Matt is a decent honest lad and who wouldn’t want to work under a bloke like him . I know he has only managed Chorley but I don’t care anymore I’d rather get behind him knowing he would give his all than this clown or any agent agenda appointed replacement.

#JANSENFORTHEJOB

( yeah I’ve had a few 😂)

[bluebruce]

25 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Because they can (comfortably) afford to fund the losses and apparently it is in their culture that it involves a severe loss of face if you allow one of your businesses to go to the wall. They don't use insolvency as a business tool like we do in the West.

I know that doesn't help us if the operation isn't being properly run here on the ground, but there you are, those are the basic reasons they're still here I reckon.

I understand letting us go to the wall would reflect terribly on them back home, but it still doesn't explain why they've never been willing to even open discussions on selling the club. Surely if it went bust under a different lot, that wouldn't be their problem?

18 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

A left field suggestion but let’s just give it Jansen and flitty as his number two. Club legends. The Italian national team appoint there top players regularly. Everyone knows Matt is a decent honest lad and who wouldn’t want to work under a bloke like him . I know he has only managed Chorley but I don’t care anymore I’d rather get behind him knowing he would give his all than this clown or any agent agenda appointed replacement.

#JANSENFORTHEJOB

( yeah I’ve had a few 😂)

No, thank you, absolutely not at all.

[funny-old-game]

41 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Because they can (comfortably) afford to fund the losses and apparently it is in their culture that it involves a severe loss of face if you allow one of your businesses to go to the wall. They don't use insolvency as a business tool like we do in the West.

I know that doesn't help us if the operation isn't being properly run here on the ground, but there you are, those are the basic reasons they're still here I reckon.

They've been here 11 fucking years and still haven't got the BASICS right for running the club. We were once up there with the best run clubs in the country, now any old bull shitter who knows a friend of a friend gets on the top table.

Fucked with em fucked without em!!!

[oldjamfan1]

51 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

A left field suggestion but let’s just give it Jansen and flitty as his number two. Club legends. The Italian national team appoint there top players regularly. Everyone knows Matt is a decent honest lad and who wouldn’t want to work under a bloke like him . I know he has only managed Chorley but I don’t care anymore I’d rather get behind him knowing he would give his all than this clown or any agent agenda appointed replacement.

#JANSENFORTHEJOB

( yeah I’ve had a few 😂)

Flitty is probably the better manager of the two to be fair. 

[JHRover]

4 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes we have cut the wage bill this season but at the same time invested in our young players like Buckley, Dolan, Wharton being key players for us in the coming years. Was were wrong for clearing the deadwood Gav? 

They have been offered new improve contracts according to Waggott. How do you know they aren't decent offers to stay? 

We didn't sack him. Just not renewed his contract. 

Apart from Billy Barr going to Salford what other coaches have we lost to the lower leagues Gav?

Why would you believe a word that Waggott comes out with? 

Recently he was going round saying Lenihan was 'days away' from signing a contract extension. Tickets, prices, signings, contracts, just about everything he says is going to happen doesn't. 

Of course if you think about things logically he is going to tell people what they want to hear. Some of us will live in fantasy land and believe everything he says and others (like myself) wouldn't trust him with £5 to buy a paper and a pint of milk and expect to get anything back.

I think it is a pretty fair assumption to make that whatever 'offers' have been made to our senior players aren't good offers. If they were then at least one of them would have signed on by now. The fact that all the senior players have refused whatever they've been offered (and I'm not sure I believe that we've even got to making serious offers yet) tells me that they must be derisory if they are there at all.

When you say we have 'invested' in Buckley, Dolan, Wharton what do you mean exactly? I expect they will be on very small wages in the scheme of Championship clubs and we will be forced to lose them soon too.

We've lost numerous backroom staff to lower league clubs. You know this as well as I do. I can't be bothered naming them all now but there are plenty of these people who have jumped ship to lower division clubs. That doesn't happen unless there is something wrong.

This, in my humble opinion, is a club in crisis. One look at Mowbray's miserable demeanor tells me that, but he and his mates have managed to survive the exodus and keep their lucrative employment going so he'll keep on rolling with whatever comes his way. 

[47er]

And some are missing the point that Rovers don't owe Venkys a penny. The debt is to various Venky companies not directly to the club. The owners choose to pay the interest on it every year while  their debt mounts.

They have set it up that way and that is to our advantage. The only way they could get their money back is by selling the club for over £200M (impossible) or by declaring insolvency and selling all the club's assets. 

Could the latter get them £200M back? I wouldn't think so though Brockhall must be worth a bit. Ewood Park not so much and there's thankfully a covenant on it.

So there are 4 alternatives---we carry on as we are indefinitely, which those with Stockholm Syndrome seem to support, they accept a realistic offer from someone and accept the loss, they put us into administration and accept their losses or they invite some other entity to join with them in running the club.

That latter has been touted with the targets being an IPL owner.

One way or another one of those 4 will happen but no-one knows when or which.

Whichever it is, Rovers will continue. If they closed us down, someone would found Rovers AFC and we'd start again in a lower league. I'm quite confident about that.

 

Edited October 4, 2021 by 47er

[bigbrandjohn]

Nothing like sending Brereton Diaz off to Chile brimming with confidence. 
“He didn't first-half, did he? Let's be honest, he wasn't very good in the first-half," exclaimed the Rovers boss.”

True,  but not great timing. He will get tapped when he is away i am sure. 

[TheRoversReturn]

8 hours ago, JHRover said:

Here's another valid and important point - how come most other Championship sides, many of them smaller clubs than Rovers, can accomplish the same mid table mediocrity that we can on a fraction of the losses?

This is an important point because it comes back to how the club is run and how quickly and relatively easily that huge figure of £20 million could be substantially reduced whilst still sustaining the same as we have now.

It is one of the biggest myths going that the only way we can survive at this level is by having owners willing and able to pump in £20 million each and every year. The reason these owners are doing that is because of their ongoing negligence and mismanagement. If employing Steve Waggott and Tony Mowbray for nearly 5 years is the sum total of your interest and investment in the club then you deserve everything you get. These two no-hopers left Coventry City in ruins and walked into this job after being overlooked at clubs like Chesterfield, Southend and Gillingham. 

Employ better and get better results. Not just on the pitch but off it also. 

Anyone tell me how much the Blackpool owner is set to lose this year on his club? Or Hemmings at Preston? Or Berylson at Millwall, or whoever owns Luton?

Halve that £20 million and then knock another chunk off. Why can't we do that and still finish mid-table?

And no - the answer isn't facilities or the academy. At most the Category A academy costs us an extra million or two a year to run and it more than covers its outlay on the players we've developed through it. As far as I can tell all those other clubs also have grounds and training pitches most of which are better maintained than Ewood. 

If anyone can explain the above then maybe I'll accept that we need £20 million a year benefactors. Until then I simply don't accept it.

And the debt figure is another myth. That figure isn't debt - it is their tab for their 'management' of the club over the last decade. They've chosen to do it that way which is entirely their right but it isn't debt and they aren't having it back. Nobody is paying it and the Club certainly can't.

Well said. Too many Rovers fans swallow the BS myths that have perpetuated over the past decade or so. £20 million written off each year makes no sense. Throwing money on big contracts for players/staff all from the same agency makes no sense. Appointing crap manager after the other from the same agency makes no sense. Well, it does but...

Repeating the mantra of them being badly advised ad infinitum makes no sense...yet we here it year after year from the same posters on here. Billionaires being perpetually badly advised? Yeah, right...

Look around you. No, not at Derby, Wigan and a few others who are named EVERY TIME this discussion. Instead, imagine...as John Lennon might have asked you...all the other clubs living life in peace. They're the majority. We know of the basket cases. 

[TheRoversReturn]

6 hours ago, joey_big_nose said:

It's genuinely one of the most obscure mysteries I've ever encountered. I can't think of anything similar.

They should have left ages ago. I guess maybe they think about walking away every year but then - kind of like a gambling addict - they think if we can fluke it into the prem they get all their money back? Who knows.

There are potential reasons and theories, but you can't necessarily publish them on the internet! So, best not to speculate out loud too much...

They're seriously the only ways for the mind to go to make any logic out of this. How can they ENJOY owning Rovers as a football club otherwise?!?!?

What pleasure do they get from another year of Mowbray's "journey"?!?!!

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

think it is a pretty fair assumption to make that whatever 'offers' have been made to our senior players aren't good offers. If they were then at least one of them would have signed on by now. The fact that all the senior players have refused whatever they've been offered (and I'm not sure I believe that we've even got to making serious offers yet) tells me that they must be derisory if they are there at all.

Well without knowing what the improve contracts offers are to the players we don't how good the offer. 

I know Brereton's parents said he is signing an extension with us. 

I would imagine they will look at the market and what's about contract wise. 

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

When you say we have 'invested' in Buckley, Dolan, Wharton what do you mean exactly? I expect they will be on very small wages in the scheme of Championship clubs and we will be forced to lose them soon too.

They are playing first team football here regular and will be our key players in the squad. Dolan and Buckley are 1st team regulars now. 

What a very small wage? 

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

We've lost numerous backroom staff to lower league clubs. You

I was talking coaching staff wise. Barr went to Salford. Rush retired from football for family reasons. Last time I heard he was renovating houses and doing Plumbing courses. 

Harvey went to Sunderland as Head of Recruitment. We got Park in seems to have a good Cv on him

[Exiled in Toronto]

While it’s a mystery why they continue to find a chronically loss-making enterprise brought about entirely by their idiocy, there’s no mystery financial shenanigans behind it all IMO. These aren’t paper losses, this is cold hard negative cash flow - £180 million and counting has been sent over, given to BRFC mostly in exchange for worthless share certificates, and paid out to a massive cast of not good enoughs.

[Gone to seed]

1 hour ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

While it’s a mystery why they continue to find a chronically loss-making enterprise brought about entirely by their idiocy, there’s no mystery financial shenanigans behind it all IMO. These aren’t paper losses, this is cold hard negative cash flow - £180 million and counting has been sent over, given to BRFC mostly in exchange for worthless share certificates, and paid out to a massive cast of not good enoughs.

And that is what is actually funny in all of this - the incompetence and indifference of the Loons just costs them a lot of money, year in / year out. If they had a shred of insight or interest in football, they could easily set up the Rovers to be a well run, competitive outfit with a good chance of progressing onwards and upwards. But instead they CHOOSE to hold the club underwater with the dead-weight of expectation dragged further under by the lack of appropriate management.

Baffling, strange and as annoying as fook, but it is what these morons CHOOSE to do.

Nobody really knows WHY. End of.

Perhaps we never will - and for that reason alone they should just go. Now

[OldEwoodBlue]

3 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

While it’s a mystery why they continue to find a chronically loss-making enterprise brought about entirely by their idiocy, there’s no mystery financial shenanigans behind it all IMO. These aren’t paper losses, this is cold hard negative cash flow - £180 million and counting has been sent over, given to BRFC mostly in exchange for worthless share certificates, and paid out to a massive cast of not good enoughs.

But if that cash was destined for the tax man and has merely been redirected to a loss making subsidiary, the true cost to them is zero.

[Gav]

9 hours ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Flitty is probably the better manager of the two to be fair. 

Likes a property ‘deal’ too.

Can you imagine 🤔

[The giorgis donis fanclub]

15 hours ago, funny-old-game said:

They've been here 11 fucking years and still haven't got the BASICS right for running the club. We were once up there with the best run clubs in the country, now any old bull shitter who knows a friend of a friend gets on the top table.

Fucked with em fucked without em!!!

I'm no business guru but surely  in a large organization like theirs there are accountants/ moneymen who advise that a loss making arm of the business should be cut adrift, I know the venkies will have the final say but I imagine eyebrows must be raised in board meetings when it's announced that that obscure football club in England has lost another 20 million quid.Doesnt make any sense

[Gav]

Just now, The giorgis donis fanclub said:

I imagine eyebrows must be raised in board meetings when it's announced that that obscure football club in England has lost another 20 million quid.Doesnt make any sense

Unless they’re hiding something…

[RevidgeBlue]

3 minutes ago, Gav said:

Unless they’re hiding something…

That old chestnut again.

Eleven years of innuendo and not a shred of evidence that's the case.

 

[Gav]

6 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

That old chestnut again.

Eleven years of innuendo and not a shred of evidence that's the case.

 

Venkys ended up in the High Court over the Henning Berg saga, dodgy and found guilty.

How many times have Blackburn Rovers found themselves in the high court over the years Rev?

Or doesn’t that count?

Edited October 5, 2021 by Gav

[tomphil]

17 minutes ago, The giorgis donis fanclub said:

I'm no business guru but surely  in a large organization like theirs there are accountants/ moneymen who advise that a loss making arm of the business should be cut adrift, I know the venkies will have the final say but I imagine eyebrows must be raised in board meetings when it's announced that that obscure football club in England has lost another 20 million quid.Doesnt make any sense

Perhaps a football club in an obscure corner of the world is a handy tool to get a few extra quid out of the conglomerate.

[RevidgeBlue]

7 minutes ago, Gav said:

Venkys ended up in the High Court over the Henning Berg saga, dodgy and found guilty.

How many times have Blackburn Rovers found themselves in the high court over the years Rev?

Or doesn’t that count?

Not been counting. Once?

And the Berg thing was a Civil dispute about contractual matters, nothing whatsoever to do with  criminality or illegality - but as an intelligent chap I'm sure you're more than well aware of that already and are just stirring things.