What a mess this club is.

[OldEwoodBlue]

FFP plan A - sell Dack

Dack gets injured

Oh shit. FFP plan B - sell Arma

No takers on time.

Oh shit. FFP plan C - sell training ground

 

Incidentally I was posting all summer about having no money, failing FFP and being under an embargo. The sums are easy and obvious from the accounts. We all know our annual costs / losses and the £13 million per season rule.

I kept getting told by someone on here to stop posting fake news and we are not under embargo.

Yes we were and we sold the STC to get ourselves off the hook at 5 to midnight.

 

Now why it costs so much to operate, whilst being unable to be competitive, compared to our peer clubs is another question.

And the STC now belongs to Venkys, not to Rovers. So its a matter of trust what happens in the case of future sale.

 

Aside from the many fantastic memories Jack gave us, which nobody can take away... Jack built a legacy for all of us, which is being dismantled.

Where is Venkys own legacy being built for the town and the fans ? FFP is not stopping them building a new stand or installing a new pitch or investing in cleaning up the area around the ground e.g. Old St Barts site. Are we going to name streets after them in the future ? Can't see it.

Jack brought us all together.

Venkys tore us apart.

[arbitro]

31 minutes ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

FFP plan A - sell Dack

Dack gets injured

Oh shit. FFP plan B - sell Arma

No takers on time.

Oh shit. FFP plan C - sell training ground

 

Incidentally I was posting all summer about having no money, failing FFP and being under an embargo. The sums are easy and obvious from the accounts. We all know our annual costs / losses and the £13 million per season rule.

I kept getting told by someone on here to stop posting fake news and we are not under embargo.

Yes we were and we sold the STC to get ourselves off the hook at 5 to midnight.

 

Now why it costs so much to operate, whilst being unable to be competitive, compared to our peer clubs is another question.

And the STC now belongs to Venkys, not to Rovers. So its a matter of trust what happens in the case of future sale.

 

Aside from the many fantastic memories Jack gave us, which nobody can take away... Jack built a legacy for all of us, which is being dismantled.

Where is Venkys own legacy being built for the town and the fans ? FFP is not stopping them building a new stand or installing a new pitch or investing in cleaning up the area around the ground e.g. Old St Barts site. Are we going to name streets after them in the future ? Can't see it.

Jack brought us all together.

Venkys tore us apart.

Excellent post.

[Gav]

10 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Probably because the managers of those Clubs haven't run such bloated squads for years and/or have traded sensibly to stay within FFP as opposed to stockpiling more and more players without ever having to sell anyone.

I don't deny it has been gross mismanagement (by imo Waggott and Mowbray) and a lack of oversight by the owners that led us to this stage in the first place.

You told this board a few days ago that the club was right the throw Nelson and Salgado on the scrap heap:

"We had to get wages under control" You said.

Here we are 10yrs later with wages nowhere near under control, even by your own unicorn calculations (Ayala 30k a week is  laughable)

This isn't a Mowbray and Waggott issue, its a Venkys issue, they're completely inept and couldn't care less Rev.

This notion that they're keeping the club alive, keeping us afloat is also bollox too, they're lumping debt (£140m+) into a holding company, we all know with the stroke of a pen that debt can move to the club, are you conformable with that? 

Posters on this board won't fall for the propaganda, we are all well versed in the business activities of these inept owners. 

Venkys out.

 

[den]

 

Maybe the owners have simply come to the conclusion that they can’t make this work and now want out.  Maybe they aren’t prepared to to do any more than the absolute minimum financially. 

The current situation compares with the trusts actions when they wanted out. They cut right back on the cash they were prepared to put in. It’s what any business would do when selling a business. 
 

If they do look to sell, the STC comes right back into play. What would happen there?

[Miker]

30 minutes ago, Gav said:

You told this board a few days ago that the club was right the throw Nelson and Salgado on the scrap heap:

"We had to get wages under control" You said.

Here we are 10yrs later with wages nowhere near under control, even by your own unicorn calculations (Ayala 30k a week is  laughable)

This isn't a Mowbray and Waggott issue, its a Venkys issue, they're completely inept and couldn't care less Rev.

This notion that they're keeping the club alive, keeping us afloat is also bollox too, they're lumping debt (£140m+) into a holding company, we all know with the stroke of a pen that debt can move to the club, are you conformable with that? 

Posters on this board won't fall for the propaganda, we are all well versed in the business activities of these inept owners. 

Venkys out.

 

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-championship/blackburn-rovers/

If these salaries are accurate then it would seem wages are under control, as for 19/20 we were spending £23mil+/year. This total wage bill is well within our revenue. 

It would also explain why Rothwell, Nyambe and Brereton may be looking elsewhere as they definitely deserve a much higher wage than they're currently getting. 

[JacknOry]

21 minutes ago, Miker said:

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-championship/blackburn-rovers/

If these salaries are accurate then it would seem wages are under control, as for 19/20 we were spending £23mil+/year. This total wage bill is well within our revenue. 

It would also explain why Rothwell, Nyambe and Brereton may be looking elsewhere as they definitely deserve a much higher wage than they're currently getting. 

Dont buy that list at all. 

 

[Gav]

37 minutes ago, Miker said:

https://salarysport.com/football/sky-bet-championship/blackburn-rovers/

If these salaries are accurate then it would seem wages are under control, as for 19/20 we were spending £23mil+/year. This total wage bill is well within our revenue. 

It would also explain why Rothwell, Nyambe and Brereton may be looking elsewhere as they definitely deserve a much higher wage than they're currently getting. 

Why are we £140m in debt if wages are under control?

Edited November 18, 2021 by Gav

[broadsword]

10 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

You and me both den.

It's obviously completely incomprehensible to a normal person how you can lose £20 or £30m p.a. without batting an eyelid.

Even if they can afford it however you'd think they'd get far more pride and enjoyment out of it had they taken a much closer interest and kept a much tighter rein on things over the years and they'd lost rather less money on us and  we had been somewhat more successful.

Maybe they've come to that realisation

Christ, for a bunch of gazillionaires , they ain't half slow learners.

Eleven years to realise that being sat in India, taking bugger-all interest in the running of the football club, hiring a string of yes men that nobody else wants and watching the debts rack up isn't a good way to run the club. Christ, by the time they figure out how to run us, I'll be in my box. 

Here's my take. They can't be bothered running us properly because we're a lot more work than they ever envisaged. They're pumping money in every year because that to them is the least worst option, or they hardly notice the money going out but at the same time wish they'd never bought us. 

They're clueless, they're careless, they've done untold damage, and the only thing they'll get right is when they part ways with us

Edited November 18, 2021 by broadsword

[Miller11]

Any suggestion that Venky’s have, at any point, got wages under control is a joke. They were well under control before they came along though:

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

3 hours ago, Gav said:

Why are we £140m in debt if wages are under control?

...But we have Billionaire owners?

Average,run of the mill Players earning 200k a year....mind boggling.

 

[lraC]

3 hours ago, Gav said:

Why are we £140m in debt if wages are under control?

Wages for players are one thing. Wages for people who brought the players in and deal with their contract renewals, is another thing all together. Some may have slept at the training ground in the past, getting the place rocking and working for nothing, but they don't all do that!!!

I have heard a little whisper, that we pay over the odds for some of the stationary too, particularly the brown envelopes, but two firms of accountants were sent in to make sure, that bit is now a thing of the past. Hope they come back in again soon.

[Exiled in Toronto]

9 hours ago, OldEwoodBlue said:

FFP plan A - sell Dack

Dack gets injured

Oh shit. FFP plan B - sell Arma

No takers on time.

Oh shit. FFP plan C - sell training ground

 

Incidentally I was posting all summer about having no money, failing FFP and being under an embargo. The sums are easy and obvious from the accounts. We all know our annual costs / losses and the £13 million per season rule.

I kept getting told by someone on here to stop posting fake news and we are not under embargo.

Yes we were and we sold the STC to get ourselves off the hook at 5 to midnight.

 

Now why it costs so much to operate, whilst being unable to be competitive, compared to our peer clubs is another question.

And the STC now belongs to Venkys, not to Rovers. So its a matter of trust what happens in the case of future sale.

 

Aside from the many fantastic memories Jack gave us, which nobody can take away... Jack built a legacy for all of us, which is being dismantled.

Where is Venkys own legacy being built for the town and the fans ? FFP is not stopping them building a new stand or installing a new pitch or investing in cleaning up the area around the ground e.g. Old St Barts site. Are we going to name streets after them in the future ? Can't see it.

Jack brought us all together.

Venkys tore us apart.

I agree with 99.9% of this except for “Jack built a legacy for all of us”. That might have been his emotional intention but, in practical terms, he built it for the club, which he had taken ownership of. Hindsight has shown that ownership could then be passed to anyone willing to pay.

Also in hindsight, it is perhaps almost inevitable that we would end up with ownership less congenial to us than Jack Walker. Seeing the Instagram post today from the Rovers account showing Jack cutting the ribbon to officially open the ground in ‘95 brought this home to me hearing the crowd chanting “There’s only one Jack Walker”. And they were right, because there really was only one Jack Walker. We could have certainly hoped for owners less worse than Venky’s, but whoever bought us would’ve been worse than Jack.

Maybe he could/should have foreseen this and gifted the club to the town or something, but then I suppose he trusted his trustees, given he appointed them.

[Crimpshrine]

I haven't checked the accounts but maybe the wages have been reduced but the turnover has slumped ? Hence the increased % figures. That's why we are in trouble with FFP too. Maybe if the owners started paying attention ?

[Upside Down]

Given the owners previous form I am nothing other than suspicious at what is going on. 

If you have an asset that does nothing but cost you millions year after year then why not just get rid? Unless of course there is something else that you are using it for....

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, Upside Down said:

Given the owners previous form I am nothing other than suspicious at what is going on. 

If you have an asset that does nothing but cost you millions year after year then why not just get rid? Unless of course there is something else that you are using it for....

We are left with very little asset now that the STC has gone....they've stripped us.

[broadsword]

3 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

We are left with very little asset now that the STC has gone....they've stripped us.

Can you pluck assets? Seems more apt. 

 

Please just tell me they're going to bugger off one fine day. Until then, we are the sport of the gods

[Sparks Rover]

3 minutes ago, broadsword said:

Can you pluck assets? Seems more apt. 

 

Please just tell me they're going to bugger off one fine day. Until then, we are the sport of the gods

Cheeky pluckers

[perthblue02]

A quick thought on saving 295,000 in year one and 300,00 in subsequent years .

Build a realistic paper mache replica of Waggot , with a in built looping mp3 player with phrases like "we will look into that" "the owners are fully committed" and a number randomizer for increasing ticket prices each season , then sack Waggot.

Upgradable in the future to include realistic lips for when it has to visit Pune and kiss Madames ring, and lighting speed fibre connection to HSH HQ database for when we need a new manager.

Will pay for itself in no time, just got to think outside the box

[Armchair supporter supremo]

20 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Conversely to use an extreme example to prove a point I  wouldn't give two hoots if we all woke up one morning to discover the Riverside Stand had been replaced with a shiny new date of the art facility and no- one had known the first thing about it. **

**I'm not aware of any such plans BTW it was a hypothetical example.

doing anything to the stands other than cleaning them and making sure they're safe are the only things that are worth spending money on with them right now when we cant even fill any of them. 

 

Communicating better with fans costs nothing and takes up very little time.

[Exiled in Toronto]

2 hours ago, Upside Down said:

Given the owners previous form I am nothing other than suspicious at what is going on. 

If you have an asset that does nothing but cost you millions year after year then why not just get rid? Unless of course there is something else that you are using it for....

They give us what they have plenty of and little regard for - money - and give us nothing of what they don’t have much of and is precious to them - time and effort.

[tomphil]

Ah .. the old wage bill debate again, always allowed to spiral under Vs, always underwritten supposedly by them through their corporation via VLL.  Always spiraling despite lower paid players, academy graduates and loans.

Always suspicious who's on it and where it all goes.

[Upside Down]

My thoughts exactly. 

[47er]

6 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I agree with 99.9% of this except for “Jack built a legacy for all of us”. That might have been his emotional intention but, in practical terms, he built it for the club, which he had taken ownership of. Hindsight has shown that ownership could then be passed to anyone willing to pay.

Also in hindsight, it is perhaps almost inevitable that we would end up with ownership less congenial to us than Jack Walker. Seeing the Instagram post today from the Rovers account showing Jack cutting the ribbon to officially open the ground in ‘95 brought this home to me hearing the crowd chanting “There’s only one Jack Walker”. And they were right, because there really was only one Jack Walker. We could have certainly hoped for owners less worse than Venky’s, but whoever bought us would’ve been worse than Jack.

Maybe he could/should have foreseen this and gifted the club to the town or something, but then I suppose he trusted his trustees, given he appointed them.

He did say, more than once, that he'd guaranteed Rovers for the future after he'd gone.

I expect he thought the Walker Trust would act differently than it did.

[RevidgeBlue]

11 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

We are left with very little asset now that the STC has gone....they've stripped us.

Hardly, they've injected £16m quid into the Club for an asset they already own because there was no other way round it due to the ludicrous FFP rules!

[RevidgeBlue]

8 hours ago, 47er said:

He did say, more than once, that he'd guaranteed Rovers for the future after he'd gone.

I expect he thought the Walker Trust would act differently than it did.

His exact words were along the lines of "I want to make sure the Club's all right when I'm gone".

Once he had gone the Trust's Solicitor Paul Egerton Vernon announced in the LT that there was no specific pot for the Club but that it was hoped the profits from the other Companies would sustain Rovers. Whether this was Jack's actual intention who knows, but to play devil's advocate the amounts needed to remain competitive at the top end of the Premier League were rising all the time and the family had either no interest in football, or a passing interest but weren't willing to risk the family silver on the Club.

I know several of the family to say hello to and I would say they are exceptionally nice people in a social capacity. As owners however the last straw for me was when they announced they were withdrawing funding from the Club and then one of Jack's other Companies Fly Be subsequently appeared as sponsors on the front of Birmingham City's shirts.

As Rovers needed a net influx of funds of c £2m - £3m p.a. at the time and Fly Be presumably flew a large number of flights from East Midlands Airport I suppose the moves were sensible in a strictly commercial sense.

I bet Jack was spinning in his grave at that point though.